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View Full Version : Further Evidence That Arizona Rules: Teacher Offers Gun



Spade: The Real Snake
6th March 09, 10:54 AM
From The Miner:

http://kingmandailyminer.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=30135

Parents Outraged


When Kristine and David Patrykus' 12-year-old son comes home from Cedar Hills School, they expect him to have homework. On Feb. 25, he carried an offer of a 9 mm handgun from his teacher.

"I'm absolutely shocked that she offered the gun," Kristine said. "Of course I was upset."

On Feb. 25, fifth- through eighth-grade language arts teacher Germaine Brockett offered the gun to a group of students in the class, Kristine said. The following day, Kristine called Cedar Hills Principal Brad Ellico to discuss the situation.

.......


When interviewed by Sgt. John Wilson on Tuesday, Brockett said she offered Patrykus' son the gun so he could take target practice and hunt like other boys in the class to "help him come out of his shell."

In a letter dated Feb. 27, Brockett apologized to the parents. She wrote that the 12-year-old had been helpful in the classroom, so she wanted to reward him. "By your reaction and the reprimand of my principal, I realize that I went outside this community's boundaries of how a teacher should reward a student," Brockett wrote.
......



Kristine and David said they felt the situation was serious and deserved more action. Having brought it to the teacher, then the principal and then the MCSO, the parents want the Hackberry School District to review the incident and take action. The three-member district board oversees Cedar Hills. The school board meets at 5 p.m. Tuesday at Cedar Hills, 9501 E. Nellie Drive.

"All I can tell you right now, I know it won't be on the agenda," said Laurie Lawson, president of the board. She said she was aware of the incident. "That is all I can tell you," Lawson said when asked if the board was going to take any action in regards to the incident.

Poor judgment

As Mohave County School superintendent, Mike File oversees the Hackberry School District. He said he has "limited abilities when it comes to the direct action of the administration or in the board.

"I would say the next course of action is legal recourse if the district isn't going to take action," he said. "The whole thing sounds like poor judgment, in my opinion, on the teacher's part."

It is that poor judgment and lack of action by the district that has caused Kristine and David to pull their two sons out of the school until after the board meeting on Tuesday. File said the parents could petition the neighboring Kingman Unified School District for their children to attend, as other parents of Cedar Hills students have done in the past.

"Basically what it boils down to and why we're upset is the school did absolutely nothing," Kristine said.

It's a pretty long article, which essentially boils down to a FEMALE teacher sending a note home with a 12 y/o student's parents, offering to let him use a 9mm pistol for "shooting" and "hunting" to help him acclimate to the other kids.

The school did nothing, as no law was broken and the parent are upset, justifiably or no.


Now, MOST people don't use 9mm for hunting and most don't start off with one for target practice at 12, I always experienced the entry gun for someone that age to be a .22 rifle.

I wrote about this on Bullshido before, but when in High School, it wasn't uncommon for kids to have rifles on the gun racks of their trucks, as they would go hunting with their friends or fathers over the weekend....or take off from school based on when/if their tag was called.

Guns here aren't uncommon. Hell, I used to see fuckers in the Post Office with a western 6-shooter strapped to their hip and the Wal-Mart has a sign in the front telling their "Guests and Customer to not bring firearms into the store".

nihilist
6th March 09, 11:00 AM
Guns helped the Trench Coat Mafioso to come out of their shell.

HappyOldGuy
6th March 09, 11:44 AM
Patrykus, sounds foreign.

WarPhalange
6th March 09, 11:48 AM
Greek?

"Awww... are the other boys making fun of you? Well, you know, I do have a gun... I could let you borrow it if you'd like..."

Shawarma
6th March 09, 12:12 PM
Greek?

"Awww... are the other boys making fun of you? Well, you know, I do have a gun... I could let you borrow it if you'd like..."
Ten points to Mr. Loops for stating the obvious.

Equipoise
6th March 09, 01:26 PM
What exactly do you go hunting for with a 9mm besides other students?

partyboy
6th March 09, 01:33 PM
What exactly do you go hunting for with a 9mm besides other students?

answers.

HappyOldGuy
6th March 09, 01:38 PM
What exactly do you go hunting for with a 9mm besides other students?

Teachers?

WarPhalange
6th March 09, 01:46 PM
Guns are chick magnets in grade school.

Dark Helmet
6th March 09, 01:50 PM
What exactly do you go hunting for with a 9mm besides other students?
Anti-gun lobbyist's?

Robot Jesus
6th March 09, 02:05 PM
mimes?

Fearless Ukemi
6th March 09, 03:56 PM
What exactly do you go hunting for with a 9mm besides other students?

po po

Phrost
6th March 09, 04:05 PM
Paper targets.

While the gun in my avatar would have been much more appropriate, the fact that the very mention of a gun evokes such an irrational hysteria in some people speaks volumes about there being an agenda that manufactured it in the first place.

Sun Wukong
6th March 09, 04:30 PM
hak2EvXoRLc

HappyOldGuy
6th March 09, 04:36 PM
Paper targets.

While the gun in my avatar would have been much more appropriate, the fact that the very mention of a gun evokes such an irrational hysteria in some people speaks volumes about there being an agenda that manufactured it in the first place.

Can't they just be stupid?

The Twitcher
6th March 09, 04:48 PM
I got my first gun way before that.

Dark Helmet
6th March 09, 06:33 PM
Paper targets.

While the gun in my avatar would have been much more appropriate, the fact that the very mention of a gun evokes such an irrational hysteria in some people speaks volumes about there being an agenda that manufactured it in the first place.
As a father you don't have any objections to someone - who is pretty much a complete stranger to you - giving your child a weapon?


Brockett said she offered Patrykus' son the gun so he could take target practice and hunt like other boys in the class to "help him come out of his shell." There are many other methods that a teacher can turn to help a child with timidity or shyness. Somehow those other methods don't involve a weapon of some kind. Especially taking this action without even consulting the boy's parents.

Spade: The Real Snake
6th March 09, 06:38 PM
As a father you don't have any objections to someone - who is pretty much a complete stranger to you - giving your child a weapon?
she didn't give the child a weapon.
she sent a letter home offering a weapon.

It was stated if she would have brought the weapon to school and given it to the child, it would have been a felony.


There are many other methods that a teacher can turn to help a child with timidity or shyness. Somehow those other methods don't involve a weapon of some kind. Especially taking this action without even consulting the boy's parents.
It depends on what the other kid's interests are.
If they all liked hunting, he would have felt left out?

HappyOldGuy
6th March 09, 07:00 PM
she didn't give the child a weapon.
she sent a letter home offering a weapon.

It's really hard to tell from the story, but it sounds like she offered it to the kid without asking the parents first. That's a minor foul in my book whether it's a beretta or a bunny rabbit. Certainly nothing that should ever have been this kind of hubbub, but you should always clear with mom and dad first before you talk to the kid.

Dark Helmet
6th March 09, 07:01 PM
she didn't give the child a weapon.
she sent a letter home offering a weapon.

It was stated if she would have brought the weapon to school and given it to the child, it would have been a felony.I guess I misread it. When I read 'offered' I took it to literately mean she gave the gun to the child. So, Phrost decide for yourself if you want to answer the question. But seriously, would you or anyone put your child safety into someones else hands? I don't think I would.




If they all liked hunting, he would have felt left out?Probably


It depends on what the other kid's interests are.In the classroom that are other things to get kids involved together. To create bonds of camaraderie and friendship. I remember having chess matches in class and playing scrabble and monopoly. What? Those are good things to do? Don't you think those are easier?

Spade: The Real Snake
6th March 09, 07:09 PM
I guess I misread it. When I read 'offered' I took it to literately mean she gave the gun to the child. So, Phrost decide for yourself if you want to answer the question. But seriously, would you or anyone put your child safety into someones else hands? I don't think I would.

This is just a similar situation to the one Phrost experienced involving "human-made" and "man-made"

A teacher taking into their own hands a value decision that should be reserved for parents. However in this case, because a gun is involved and not feel-good words, the reaction will be more incindiary.

Yes. I realized guns can hurt people (but so can words otherwise the above wouldn't be an issue) but the teacher sent home a note, as I understand, as well as called the parents asking if they got the offer.





In the classroom that are other things to get kids involved together. To create bonds of camaraderie and friendship. I remember having chess matches in class and playing scrabble and monopoly. What? Those are good things to do? Don't you think those are easier?
True.
They are.
This was for off-time and, well, this is Arizona. Not a weekend goes by when I don't hear rifle shots in the desert a couple of hundred yards away from my house.

Zendetta
6th March 09, 07:14 PM
If Kid's With Guns are Outlawed, then Only Outlaws' Kids will Have Guns.

Or something.

Spade: The Real Snake
6th March 09, 07:14 PM
I am more worried about Potter-hating Chavs with lead pipes

Zendetta
6th March 09, 07:17 PM
Harry or Beatrix?

Spade: The Real Snake
6th March 09, 07:20 PM
Harry or Beatrix?
http://www.sociocide.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52187

Wounded Ronin
6th March 09, 07:25 PM
Paper targets.

While the gun in my avatar would have been much more appropriate, the fact that the very mention of a gun evokes such an irrational hysteria in some people speaks volumes about there being an agenda that manufactured it in the first place.

Like I've said before I believe it's a cultural difference. The teacher came from a culture where shooting targets is a constructive activity which can build bonds between parent figures and youth figures. The parents probably came from a culture where guns are only scary things possessed by muggers and guys in movies.

"Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity", or in this case, cultural misunderstanding.

Virus
6th March 09, 08:33 PM
Is it OK for a teacher to offer porn to a 12 year old?

nihilist
6th March 09, 08:36 PM
Kitty porn?

Keith
6th March 09, 09:38 PM
Wait wait wait... the articvle says that the teacher phoned the parents to ask if it was ok for the kid to borrow the gun, why is everyone assuming that the teacher wanted to leave the parents out of this?

nihilist
6th March 09, 10:07 PM
These parents obviously need to be shot.

Sun Wukong
6th March 09, 10:30 PM
I think the kid deserves the next best thing to the ability to kill; permission to make hard rampant love to the teacher's life oven.

HappyOldGuy
6th March 09, 11:02 PM
Wait wait wait... the articvle says that the teacher phoned the parents to ask if it was ok for the kid to borrow the gun, why is everyone assuming that the teacher wanted to leave the parents out of this?

The article (or the events) is confuzzling. It says she called the parents the day after her principal had already talked to her,

3moose1
6th March 09, 11:36 PM
Dude, i got my first gun when i was 6. A mother fucking .22 rifle.

I was always raised around guns, since i was like...four. My Dad didn't hide them from me, and showed me how they worked, let me see them, taught me about gun safety, etc. Why? So when i did become curious, and if i did somehow find a gun, i would know now to point and shoot it at one of my goddamn friends.

(now i can take apart and put together an ar-15, blindfolded)

Wounded Ronin
6th March 09, 11:37 PM
Is it OK for a teacher to offer porn to a 12 year old?

In exactly the same way as with the gun, some parents could see it as being enlightened if presented in the right way, whereas others would flip.

Cultural differences FTW.

Virus
7th March 09, 03:25 AM
Dude, i got my first gun when i was 6. A mother fucking .22 rifle.


That's nothing. I was given canisters of anthrax when I was two.

AAAhmed46
7th March 09, 03:32 AM
Pff, i was raised around the flu virus.

Harpy
7th March 09, 03:49 AM
(now i can take apart and put together an ar-15, blindfolded)
You can curve bullets too right?

What a fucked up thing for a teacher to offer. What next, ring up a parent to ask them to buy their child a PS3 because 'all the other kids have one'. The teacher is there to teach the authorised school curriculum.

Snake, what's your opinion on it given you live in that state?

Virus
7th March 09, 05:56 AM
Lily for some bizarre reason most people in this thread seem to think a teacher offering to provide a firearm to a minor deserves some sort of high-five.

Harpy
7th March 09, 06:23 AM
Its beyond screwed up but no one wants to argue against "its not guns, its people" line (which is another issue).

I would personally ensure that every single parent at that school, the media, the education department were notified and force the school board/administration to take some action on the teacher and furthermore back it up with a public admonishment and assurance that this would never happen again.

I don't care what sort of 'culture' Arizona has, that just doesn't fly as an excuse/reason.

Spade: The Real Snake
7th March 09, 10:04 AM
Snake, what's your opinion on it given you live in that state? It is bizarre, to be sure, but not out of the ordinary for the area.

As I posted on BS before, it wasn't uncommon for fights between "jocks" to be broken up, only to have the coach call the fathers involved, take them into the wrestling room, put some gloves on the kids and let them finish it in a controlled environment, with the coaches and fathers watching.

Kids would have rifles in their trucks on school grounds and it wasn't a big deal.

Story from high school:

I had an 11th Grade US History teacher who was a weightlifter and fitness guy. He liked to "flex" while writing on the blackboard. One day, while flexing on the blackboard, someone threw a spit wad at him. He whipped around asked "Who the fuck threw that? NAME THE DOG."

Dude sitting next to me was laughing so the teacher assumed he threw it.

Teacher PICKED UP THE DESK with the kid still in it, threw it at the wall (kid and all). The kid wasn't hurt, just shaken and a little bruised, teacher said "Let that be a lesson for any of the rest of you that wants to throw spitwads."

We sat stunned in silence. After about 10 minutes another guy raised his hand and told the teacher that he had, in fact, threw the spitwad, not the kid that was thrown against the wall.

The teacher felt bad, apologized and took the kid to the store at lunch to buy him some 501s to make up for it.

There was no punishment against the teacher or outcry or parents complaining.

Wounded Ronin
7th March 09, 10:11 AM
It is bizarre, to be sure, but not out of the ordinary for the area.

As I posted on BS before, it wasn't uncommon for fights between "jocks" to be broken up, only to have the coach call the fathers involved, take them into the wrestling room, put some gloves on the kids and let them finish it in a controlled environment, with the coaches and fathers watching.

Kids would have rifles in their trucks on school grounds and it wasn't a big deal.

Story from high school:

I had an 11th Grade US History teacher who was a weightlifter and fitness guy. He liked to "flex" while writing on the blackboard. One day, while flexing on the blackboard, someone threw a spit wad at him. He whipped around asked "Who the fuck threw that? NAME THE DOG."

Dude sitting next to me was laughing so the teacher assumed he threw it.

Teacher PICKED UP THE DESK with the kid still in it, threw it at the wall (kid and all). The kid wasn't hurt, just shaken and a little bruised, teacher said "Let that be a lesson for any of the rest of you that wants to throw spitwads."

We sat stunned in silence. After about 10 minutes another guy raised his hand and told the teacher that he had, in fact, threw the spitwad, not the kid that was thrown against the wall.

The teacher felt bad, apologized and took the kid to the store at lunch to buy him some 501s to make up for it.

There was no punishment against the teacher or outcry or parents complaining.

My mom is a teacher and I've heard from her how things are totally different today. Today's teachers have their hands tied by politics, fear of lawsuits, and the ossification of the public school system. I don't think it's fair to only blame "the system", though. Part of the reason that things often don't work out is all the loser parents who don't raise their kids in a constructive manner, and who keep undermining anything the teacher tries to do in the classroom. How can the public school system succeed if the parents are a bunch of nimrods who keep validating their kids' asinine behavior?

Shawarma
7th March 09, 10:54 AM
On the other hand, my mother always tells me of the asswhippings she got at school from teachers who enjoyed it just a little too much.

Laying hands on children = strictly the privilege of their parents/guardians, IMO.

3moose1
7th March 09, 12:49 PM
Was it wrong for the teacher to offer a gun to the student? (w or w/o parental knowledge?)

Probably.

Would there be a 5 page thread, and a whole bunch of headache for a poor teacher if it had been an xbox?

no.

Dark Helmet
7th March 09, 02:01 PM
Was it wrong for the teacher to offer a gun to the student? (w or w/o parental knowledge?)

Probably.

Would there be a 5 page thread, and a whole bunch of headache for a poor teacher if it had been an xbox?

no.
Except we are not talking about a toy. It's one thing for an adult to give a gift to a child it quite another to arm a child. Perhaps this is a culture thing and who knows?Maybe, it's common for teachers to give shooting lessons to children in Arizona.

But from my point of view there's 2 subjects of this article that should be debated.

1) Should a teacher ,who's primary responsibility is to teach her students the 3 R's, offer shooting lessons to a child ?

2) Did that teacher exceed her parent/teacher trust by either offering that child said lessons without consulting the parents?

By offering the child shooting lessons she is effectively putting the child life into a certain amount of danger that the parents have no ability to either control the teacher actions during the lesson and prevent any accidents. This feels earily similar to that case months ago about that child who blew a hole in his head with an UZi and I forget but the wasn't the guy a certified shooting instructor in that case.

If she were to bring the child on a wilderness trek in the desert you would hope that the teacher knows at least something about that sort of thing. Just as you hope the teacher would know something about teaching sword techniques ( a la Iaido ) to the students.

It's interesting that if this were a discussion about a school teacher offering Iaido lessons to the students in her class the members on this site would laugh at the 'cos player' and start investigating the teacher's Iaido background. But since it's just a 9mm Beretta it should be taken as really normal .

When you give permission to your child to attend lessons in weaponry class you would expect that teacher to at least have attained some sort of level of proficiency that she be allowed to instruct.

HappyOldGuy
7th March 09, 04:06 PM
1) No
2) Yes

Teaching a child shooting is safer than any number of things she might have offered that wouldn't have raised an eyebrow. Given that it's rural Arizona, she might have offered to take him horseback riding. That's crazy more dangerous. They might have gone hiking. Etc etc. Shooting under competent sober adult supervision is just not that dangerous.

Dark Helmet
7th March 09, 08:53 PM
Given that it's rural Arizona, she might have offered to take him horseback riding.
On a tame horse? Come on dude?


Shooting under certified instruction is just not that dangerous.

3moose1
8th March 09, 01:42 AM
HappyOldGuy, you're a sad, sad liberal, and it makes me sad.

But you do judo, so i still respect you!

Spade: The Real Snake
8th March 09, 08:46 AM
HappyOldGuy, you're a sad, sad liberal, and it makes me sad.


Where is the "sad Liberal" in this statement:



Teaching a child shooting is safer than any number of things she might have offered that wouldn't have raised an eyebrow. Given that it's rural Arizona, she might have offered to take him horseback riding. That's crazy more dangerous. They might have gone hiking. Etc etc. Shooting under competent sober adult supervision is just not that dangerous.

This is one of the most non-sad liberal things I have seen him write.

HOG, one Harai Goshi for moose, ploxkthxbai.

Harpy
8th March 09, 05:22 PM
1) No
2) Yes

Teaching a child shooting is safer than any number of things she might have offered that wouldn't have raised an eyebrow. Given that it's rural Arizona, she might have offered to take him horseback riding. That's crazy more dangerous. They might have gone hiking. Etc etc. .

Given that its rural Arizona would it also be okay if she told the boy to have sex with his siblings?

A teacher is in no position to offer anything to a child other than education and a safe environment to learn (oh and stickers for good work).



Shooting under competent sober adult supervision is just not that dangerous
This is not being disputed. Its the fact that a public servant is making the decision to offer a minor a weapon that is wrong and disturbing. No matter the 'culture' of the locality.

HappyOldGuy
8th March 09, 05:56 PM
This is not being disputed. Its the fact that a public servant is making the decision to offer a minor a weapon that is wrong and disturbing. No matter the 'culture' of the locality.

I'm not sure what we are disagreeing over


you should always clear with mom and dad first before you talk to the kid.

The teacher screwed up.

The parents overreacted.

FriendlyFire
9th March 09, 08:27 PM
It's one thing for an adult to give a gift to a child it quite another to arm a child.

It is outrageous to ARM A CHILD with a note for his parents offering to give him shooting lessons. If she would have actually offered a gun I would have thought fire that bitch she is nuts, but a note for parents is entirely different. She was trying to go beyond her duty, but asked for the parents permission first. Seems reasonable and they could have just said no.