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kracker
15th February 09, 03:41 PM
Why do people around here love cops so much? What do they do for you as a citizen? What service do they provide you? Even the good ones can't help you unless you're getting mugged in broad daylight with a good cop just happening to be next to you. Then, to pay for this, you have to pay the salary of the ones that bully, steal from, beat and kill you, often for no reason. Why do you defend those ones? Would society not be better if we take 3/4 of the cops off the street and only give them time and resources to prosecute real crimes and not harrass homeless people, drug users, speed trap victims and ethnic minorities to relieve the boredom associated with there being too many of them per actual crime? I'm just asking and I will listen if I'm overlooking something in my worldview. I really just want to understand. I'm not trying to offend the LEOs on this forum.

HappyOldGuy
15th February 09, 03:48 PM
Then, to pay for this, you have to pay the salary of the ones that bully, steal from, beat and kill you, often for no reason. Why do you defend those ones?

Because they are a microscopic fraction of the total, and they are only stopped by other cops.

kracker
15th February 09, 03:59 PM
Because they are a microscopic fraction of the total, and they are only stopped by other cops.

Not so much. They are stopped by public outrage, of which I'm seeing a disturbing lack of. In Greece for example, they didn't life a finger to seek justice for that teenager in Exarchia until the riots forced them to back down and do their job.

Robot Jesus
15th February 09, 04:09 PM
your really exaggerating how bad cops are. I would say most of them are power tripping dicks, but your whole murder rape and theft accusation just doesn’t hold water.

It's not that we like cops, is that you and LH are being retarted.

kracker
15th February 09, 04:26 PM
your really exaggerating how bad cops are. I would say most of them are power tripping dicks, but your whole murder rape and theft accusation just doesn’t hold water.

It's not that we like cops, is that you and LH are being retarted.

I'll settle for power tripping dicks. I never said more than a tiny minority go as far as murder and rape. I still consider unreasonable speed traps where cops hang out to meet a set quota theft however. It's not personal theft, but it's theft for the state. It has been said by chiefs many times in the news that more tickets is the way out of the recession.

jubei33
15th February 09, 04:39 PM
i bet those chiefs have about the same level of economic understanding as you do?

Harpy
15th February 09, 04:48 PM
Why do people around here love cops so much?
The uniform.

I really can't stand people who have no regard for LEO's and the fact they are willing to put themselves on the line every day to do their job. You're just sitting on the sidelines giving them a verbal bashing.



What do they do for you as a citizen? What service do they provide you? Even the good ones can't help you unless you're getting mugged in broad daylight with a good cop just happening to be next to you. Then, to pay for this, you have to pay the salary of the ones that bully, steal from, beat and kill you, often for no reason. Why do you defend those ones? Would society not be better if we take 3/4 of the cops off the street and only give them time and resources to prosecute real crimes and not harrass homeless people, drug users, speed trap victims and ethnic minorities to relieve the boredom associated with there being too many of them per actual crime? I'm just asking and I will listen if I'm overlooking something in my worldview. I really just want to understand. I'm not trying to offend the LEOs on this forum

I don't see anyone on this forum 'defending' the corrupt cops as you so claim. I also have never heard of anyone in my social circle ever having been 'bullied, stolen from, beaten or killed' by a cop.

Care to explain what you mean by ' harrass drug users'?

Where are you getting your stats on 'too many cops per actual crime'?

Robot Jesus
15th February 09, 04:49 PM
yes many things are done for financial motives, but this is (hopefully) not a matter of greed but of scarcity of resources and unlimited demand. There is always more crime than they have the resources to deal with. I believe there are systemic issues that exacerbate this, but at its core they are in a conflict that they cannot really win. If you where in that situation wouldn’t you be scrambling to get every penny you could get to stop the rapists and murderers?
This is not exactly the ideal situation granted, but it’s not as bad as your painting it.
And yes there are rapist and murderers in uniform, that because of the “rule of authority” (pulled from the republic through my ass) a position of authority will attract many people for many reasons, but the two big ones are; to do good, or to abuse said authority. Although from how much the cops on this website complain about internal affairs I feel secure knowing they can’t take a shit without permission signed in triplicate. DCI Gene Hunt is fiction for good reason.

Domite
15th February 09, 05:16 PM
I also have never heard of anyone in my social circle ever having been 'bullied, stolen from, beaten or killed' by a cop.
You must have some really boring freinds

Harpy
15th February 09, 05:19 PM
Some of them yes, the others aren't really the type who get 'beaten or killed' by cops for being cool/interesting people like I'm sure all your friends are.

Knave
15th February 09, 05:25 PM
Greetings.


Would society not be better if we take 3/4 of the cops off the street and only give them time and resources to prosecute real crimes and not harrass homeless people, drug users, speed trap victims and ethnic minorities to relieve the boredom associated with there being too many of them per actual crime?

In the interest of public safety and peaceful living, I wish the police had even more liberty to "harass homeless people, drug users, speed trap victims, and ethnic minorities" as you call them. Fortunately my neighborhood is relatively free of people who can't act right or can't function in civilized society, but other neighborhoods are not so lucky. And I am truly saddened for the good people in those neighborhoods who have to deal with a bunch of goodfornothings ruining their living conditions because the police have so much red tape to deal with that they can't just go give them savage beatings until they learn to act right.

Doritosaurus Chex
15th February 09, 05:47 PM
I have a question for the LEOs or anybody educated in law. What are these real crimes that people talk about?

WarPhalange
15th February 09, 06:06 PM
Not so much. They are stopped by public outrage, of which I'm seeing a disturbing lack of. In Greece for example, they didn't life a finger to seek justice for that teenager in Exarchia until the riots forced them to back down and do their job.

http://www.economist.com/world/europe/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12756043&fsrc=rss

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/12/11/europe/greece.php

The shooting was essentially the straw that broke the camel's back. It wasn't the whole reason for the outrage, like you claim.

kanegs
15th February 09, 06:09 PM
You seem to think that if we got rid all the cops that are jerks that they would no longer be jerks.

Trust me, wannabe cops can be bigger jerks.

GuiltySpark
15th February 09, 06:30 PM
Kracker in your obviously mature unbiased and educated opinion what are these real crimes you're talking about?

Can you give me 5 real crimes and 5 wastes of time?

socratic
15th February 09, 06:35 PM
Not so much. They are stopped by public outrage, of which I'm seeing a disturbing lack of. In Greece for example, they didn't life a finger to seek justice for that teenager in Exarchia until the riots forced them to back down and do their job.

If memory serves, that teenager in Greece attacked a cop with a weapon and deserved to die, as do all the other retards who tried to assault police in the days that followed. I have no sympathy for anyone who deliberately attempts to assault or kill police officers.

WarPhalange
15th February 09, 06:39 PM
It's fine to kill other people, though. Wearing a badge makes you more important than the people you are trying to protect and serve, right?

kracker
15th February 09, 07:13 PM
Kracker in your obviously mature unbiased and educated opinion what are these real crimes you're talking about?

Can you give me 5 real crimes and 5 wastes of time?

I am speaking in opinion but I would define "real" crimes as things society actually needs to have criminalized to be safe.

Real:
Murder
Rape
Theft
Assault
Fraud

Waste of time crimes:
illegal gun ownership
anything involving drugs
going like 10 or 20 over the speed limit
downloading music or movies
jaywalking, loitering, all that kind of garbage

SFGOON
15th February 09, 07:14 PM
It's fine to kill other people, though. Wearing a badge makes you more important than the people you are trying to protect and serve, right?

Well, maybe just a little...

Kracker has mentioned speed traps about a billion times. This, to me, is a clue. Traffic cops are notorious assholes - even other cops are weary of them. But, way more people die due to traffic accidents so they're a necessary pain in the ass.

If you're looking to live without the spectre of police and rule of law, I suggest Lebanon or Somalia.

WarPhalange
15th February 09, 07:18 PM
Waste of time crimes:
illegal gun ownership
Right, because we should let just anybody go ahead and have a gun. Who cares whether or not they are sane or have served time for murder in the past?


anything involving drugs
Even selling to kids?


going like 10 or 20 over the speed limit
I don't want to get hit by a car because some jackass went 40 in a 20 school zone or 50 in a 30 and couldn't make the turn properly.


downloading music or movies
Not once have I heard of cops getting involved, and definitely not making a bust or randomly catching someone do it at a cafe or something.


jaywalking, loitering, all that kind of garbage
My friends and I want to hang out around your house, okay? All 20 of us. All day long. When you are expecting your parents or some shit.

People don't want to come to your store when they see a group of teenagers spreading their acne around near it. A cop tells them to break it up so they don't bother people.

Sadly, it seems like kids don't have any sort of get-together place these days. I mean, where are you going to go to just hang out? The mall?

Sartori
15th February 09, 07:20 PM
Greetings.



In the interest of public safety and peaceful living, I wish the police had even more liberty to "harass homeless people, drug users, speed trap victims, and ethnic minorities" as you call them. Fortunately my neighborhood is relatively free of people who can't act right or can't function in civilized society, but other neighborhoods are not so lucky. And I am truly saddened for the good people in those neighborhoods who have to deal with a bunch of goodfornothings ruining their living conditions because the police have so much red tape to deal with that they can't just go give them savage beatings until they learn to act right.
here, here

Doritosaurus Chex
15th February 09, 08:15 PM
Would society not be better if we take 3/4 of the cops off the street and only give them time and resources to prosecute real crimes and not harrass homeless people, drug users, speed trap victims and ethnic minorities to relieve the boredom associated with there being too many of them per actual crime?



I am speaking in opinion but I would define "real" crimes as things society actually needs to have criminalized to be safe.

Real:
Murder
Rape
Theft
Assault
Fraud


4 of the 5 real crimes mentioned are either crimes of opportunity or passion. These crimes are effectively prevented through police presence. If we followed the proposal and removed the presence 3/4 officers on the force, how would you prevent these crimes without resorting to Big Brother tactics and the loss of freedom?

Ka-Bar
15th February 09, 08:18 PM
The thing that Kracker fails to realize is that enforcing the "unimportant" laws either prevents or discovers the commission of more "important" crimes.

It's called the Broken Window theory.

Harpy
15th February 09, 08:18 PM
I have a feeling that kracker is homeless, peddles drugs, loiters around primary schools and owns an AK-47. Definitely something the police should overlook.

GuiltySpark
15th February 09, 08:44 PM
Mr Loops beat me to it Kracker.

You want just anyone to run around with an assault rifle selling whatever kinda drugs to whoever they want outside of schools, corner stores and shit. Driving 20 faster because it's just that important- selling black market CDs out of the back of their car trunk.


Were you just trying trying to kill time when you made this thread or do you actually believe this stuff?

tom.f
15th February 09, 08:53 PM
I think kracker should take this up with a cop. Communications could really help this kind of discussion and maybe if kracker understood the kind of dickheads cops have to deal with on a daily basis, he would quit being one of those.

HappyOldGuy
15th February 09, 08:59 PM
It's fine to kill other people, though. Wearing a badge makes you more important than the people you are trying to protect and serve, right?

Killing a cop is no better or worse than killing anyone else. It's just a stupider thing to try. Cause I have no problems if anyone else kills in their own self defense, and cops will be armed and alot better at it than most people.

kanegs
15th February 09, 09:03 PM
It's fine to kill other people, though. Wearing a badge makes you more important than the people you are trying to protect and serve, right?
Aren't you jumping to conclusions just a bit.

I do agree with your point. The penalty for unnecessary force (deadly of otherwise) by the police should be at least the same that you or I would expect.

If the laws don't allow me to tazer everyone who pisses me off (and they better), The same standard should apply to LEOs. The tazer is a better option than making someone comply by beating the crap out of them with a nightstick, but it shouldn't be used to get someone to end their phonecall, And while we're at it please don't shoot every dog you see.

That said, the penalty for intentionally assaulting a uniformed police officer should be greater than assaulting a "mere" fellow citizen (sorry shouting "Police" right before you kick my door down doesn't give you a free pass). Outright assassination of LEOs cannot be tolerated at all (like the Mexican DEA official killed in Cancun).

kanegs
15th February 09, 09:11 PM
I don't want to get hit by a car because some jackass went 40 in a 20 school zone or 50 in a 30 and couldn't make the turn properly.
Trouble is, the cops aren't out making the school zones safer. If they happen to be there and you zoom past like a moron they'll bust you. But they're stationed by large straightaways where you can safely drive at 70 MPH and bust you so they can meet their quota.

My sister-in-law had a job out of state where she was constantly stopped for speeding because she had out of state plates. Of course she was over the speed limit (but so was everyone else). She got ticketed because they didn't think she'd show up in traffic court.

Harpy
15th February 09, 09:25 PM
My sister-in-law had a job out of state where she was constantly stopped for speeding because she had out of state plates. Of course she was over the speed limit (but so was everyone else). She got ticketed because they didn't think she'd show up in traffic court.

Whine whine whine. She got caught doing the wrong thing, plain and simple.



The penalty for unnecessary force (deadly of otherwise) by the police should be at least the same that you or I would expect.

I don't quite agree with this. In a way I think the police are held by higher standards when they use force, there are internal procedures that will review their actions and public pressure which can sway the administration to make public/increase their penalty against the LEO. There is so much red tape that they probably think a lot harder before they start shooting.

kanegs
15th February 09, 09:37 PM
Whine whine whine. She got caught doing the wrong thing, plain and simple.

Do you think the one car driving the speed limit makes the road any safer for the rest of us?


I don't quite agree with this. In a way I think the police are held by higher standards when they use force, there are internal procedures that will review their actions and public pressure which can sway the administration to make public/increase their penalty against the LEO. There is so much red tape that they probably think a lot harder before they start shooting.
Are you saying that they should be held to a higher standard? or that we should cut them some slack because of all the stress they're under?

Honestly I personally haven't had many problems with the police. Every couple of years a cop will rub me the wrong way, but I certainly deal with more assholes who aren't LEOs.

I usually only get fired up when something makes the news, and I know that for every bad cop that hits the headlines there are thousands (if not millions) who put their life on the line everyday.

Spade: The Real Snake
15th February 09, 11:27 PM
Do you think the one car driving the speed limit makes the road any safer for the rest of us?

If you use the logic that "someone else was speeding so my speeding shouldn't count " then you must also use the logic "someone else wasn't speeding so my speeding should count".

Perhaps you should follow suit when others ARE obeying the rules and not only when they aren't.

Stick
16th February 09, 12:53 AM
The thing that Kracker fails to realize is that enforcing the "unimportant" laws either prevents or discovers the commission of more "important" crimes.

It's called the Broken Window theory.


Crime in NYC plummeted when ol' Rudy- yes, the "hero" of 9/11, Rudy- instituted the "cops on dots" program whereby cops actually had to patrol neighborhoods in which crime was reported and arrest everyone for even the smallest violation.

The thing is, it turns out that the people who commit rape, arson, murder, armed robbery, burglary, etc. are also likely to engage in graffiti, public intoxication, loitering, disturbances of the peace, jaywalking, and every other "waste of time" crime this kid is complaining about.

Something tells me Kracker recently received a speeding ticket and really just needs to vent.

WarPhalange
16th February 09, 01:14 AM
Guy raped a woman, so lets bust him for loitering. Justice has been served.


Stick, all that tells me is that I should go to one of those places where cops are patrolling, rape some woman, and then go home. They'll think it's some guy spraying graffiti while publicly intoxicated and will divert resources from actually investigating the rape so that they can harass teenagers.

GuiltySpark
16th February 09, 01:41 AM
Guy raped a woman, so lets bust him for loitering. Justice has been served.


Stick, all that tells me is that I should go to one of those places where cops are patrolling, rape some woman, and then go home. They'll think it's some guy spraying graffiti while publicly intoxicated and will divert resources from actually investigating the rape so that they can harass teenagers.

Is it better to use time and resources and arrest someone for a minor crime and prevent the larger ones or wait till they commit a lager one?

mrm1775
16th February 09, 03:12 AM
I don't quite agree with this. In a way I think the police are held by higher standards when they use force, there are internal procedures that will review their actions and public pressure which can sway the administration to make public/increase their penalty against the LEO. There is so much red tape that they probably think a lot harder before they start shooting.
Speaking as someone who is in police training right now, this is actually very true. Seems I won't even be allowed to kick someone in the balls unless its a deadly force situation. Every time they have to use even the slightest amount of force (like wrestling a suspect's hands behind his back to cuff him) they actually do have to submit a form in triplicate. People also tend to overlook the way cops usually get the book thrown at them when they do abuse their authority.

Also overlooked is the fact that every arrest means a mountain of paperwork and possibly a day wasted in court. They don't do it just to be dicks.

GuiltySpark
16th February 09, 03:40 AM
I bet the assholes don't show up in court.
And what's their excuse?
Well I was doing 20 over the speed limit and I got pulled over- it's the cops fault they should be out stoping real crimes.

So Kracker what's your story? Did you get busted for selling dope outside of 711 or something?
Or are you 15 or?

kanegs
16th February 09, 05:35 AM
If you use the logic that "someone else was speeding so my speeding shouldn't count " then you must also use the logic "someone else wasn't speeding so my speeding should count".

Perhaps you should follow suit when others ARE obeying the rules and not only when they aren't.
I'm using the logic that speed limits should be enforced to make our roads safer instead of being enforced selectively to maximize revenue.

EuropIan
16th February 09, 05:54 AM
People who strongly dislike cops often have problems with authority figures in general.


I am, slightly distrustfull of cops because of the percieved power they have. However, I realize that the threat of more paperwork is often enough to prevent them from being total dicks. So they get to have their little powertrip because it's more important for me for the officer to continue to do his job somewhere else.

yes, I truly believe that this is enough to prevent most abuses of the law.


I am strongly in favor of enforced traffic laws. 'Flow of traffic' be damned.

Then again, for me the ideal would be computer regulated traffic and speed limits.

Kein Haar
16th February 09, 08:27 AM
Guy raped a woman, so lets bust him for loitering.

As an example, that's how warrants are discovered, actually.

Spade: The Real Snake
16th February 09, 09:40 AM
I'm using the logic that speed limits should be enforced to make our roads safer instead of being enforced selectively to maximize revenue.


So unless they have sufficient force in place to pull over every speeder (which I am sure you would support with your tax dollars) they need to weed a few out and make examples of them.

Sucks for your girl but someone has to fall on the spear. I bet numerous drivers saw her getting pulled over and numerous saw her pulled over and slowed the fuck down.

Those who may have been spared from an accident caused by those speeding unsafe drivers thank you.

kracker
16th February 09, 11:36 AM
Crime in NYC plummeted when ol' Rudy- yes, the "hero" of 9/11, Rudy- instituted the "cops on dots" program whereby cops actually had to patrol neighborhoods in which crime was reported and arrest everyone for even the smallest violation.
.

Something tells me you'd LOVE North Korea. Seriously, if that doesn't scare the crap out of you then something's seriously wrong.

kracker
16th February 09, 11:41 AM
People also tend to overlook the way cops usually get the book thrown at them when they do abuse their authority.
.

The guy who shot Oscar Grant in the back (possibly by accident but at very least manslaughter) is walking around on the street, free as a bird.

kracker
16th February 09, 11:46 AM
I bet the assholes don't show up in court.
And what's their excuse?
Well I was doing 20 over the speed limit and I got pulled over- it's the cops fault they should be out stoping real crimes.

So Kracker what's your story? Did you get busted for selling dope outside of 711 or something?
Or are you 15 or?

I'm a college guy with no rap sheet. I just see a severe problem with the fact that my neighborhood has zero crime and yet there are cops EVERYWHERE clearly bored off their asses and praying someone fucks up even slightly. A bored cop is a dangerous cop. I also despise going unnecessarily slowly in a well known speed trap where I live.

kracker
16th February 09, 11:49 AM
Is it better to use time and resources and arrest someone for a minor crime and prevent the larger ones or wait till they commit a lager one?

If you consider the fact that once someone goes to prison they get dehumanized to the point where they belong there even if they didn't before, I would say wait for the bigger crime. I don't see how someone can function as a productive citizen after being locked up like an animal and raped repeatedly.

Equipoise
16th February 09, 12:54 PM
1. Assaulting us carries a worse penalty then the average citizen.

2. We ARE held to a higher standard than civilians which is why I can't pop you for mouthing off to me or use force via losing my temper. The spotlight's on us, not you.

3. Small crime prevention leads to big crime prevention.


Here's a story from last night:

All the normal units are slammed with calls and a priority domestic goes out. I'm down the block so I head there. I get on scene (mind you this is the super ghetto) and individual A walks up to me and is polite, cooperative, etc. I'm thinking "Wow, this is rare." Turns out he took five dollars from his baby's mother. She went apeshit and attacked him by throwing bleach all over him, etc. It took a lot of pulling to get that out of him due to past instances of aggravated battery. I talk to individual "B" now. B says that A took the money (okay) and then punched her in the head and ripped out her weave. She defended herself with the bleach. She was holding her one year old turning the entire incident and still doing so. Past history between A & B has revealed that she cut him with a kitchen knife last time and has attacked him prior to that.

After more detail finding, I'm going to take B to the pokey for felony battery, criminal mischief and felony neglect due to the child being doused in bleach during the fight. Now I tell her to hand the child to my assisting officer. She refuses. She then uses the CHILD as a tool to prevent prosecution all the while screaming, crying, cursing and so forth; IE the usual melo-drama that comes from this sort of incident coupled with screaming at me for being white, in her house and so forth.

I get in contact with B's mom, she comes to get the kid.... now B is without kid.....it's now go time. This lady is 8 mos pregenant and fighting. Great! We pacified her to some degree (sans force) and then escort her to the car. Now she's sitting in my car and gets informed of the charges (never do it prior). From this point on, it's about 30 minutes of "Cracka ass motha fucka! I'll fuck yo ass up, Why don't you go find some real crime you stank ass bitch" etc.

We go to the station so I can finish my associated affadavit. Now since she's foaming at the mouth, I decide to sit in my car with her, rather than attempt to get her into the holding cell.

She starts attempting to kick out my windows and the rear cage. Here comes the psychological nonsense "I'm in pain mothafucka, whatcha you gonna do about that?" That goes on for 10 minutes. Still no response from me as it's better to let them run out of steam and just not add to it. I'm watching her on the camera to make sure she's not actually hurt btw. Then it goes from pain to "I'm bleedin mothafucka" etc. No blood, no signs of injury nor has she moved. Plus she's too fat to actually see if she was bleeding. Here comes the next stage: "I'm havin contractions!..... If I lose this baby, I'm gonna sue yo cracka ass and own (my department). I wanna speak to the Chief! I want to speak to yo supavisa (Ma'am you already did) Fuck you cracka I wanna speak to his supavisa" I get all my stuff completed and head to the pokey.

First pokey won't take her due to pregnancy. Okay. B starts to make comments, I could care less, I'm getting paid to do this. Next pokey takes her. Prior to reaching pokey 2, she has another fit of childishness in the back and then finally starts to sob. Ahhh I think, the whole gravity of the incident has sunken in... Inside pokey 2 which looks like it belongs in a third world country, she starts mouthing off again. Wants to try and push little battles like who will walk first, etc. (You always walk behind them) I again here "Cracka motha fucka, etc." before they finally put her in on of the dungeoun's rooms.

So Kracker, was I pushing my authority on that lady, did I abuse my power, did I beat her or anything else? Was this crime nonsense?

Robot Jesus
16th February 09, 01:15 PM
1. Assaulting us carries a worse penalty then the average citizen.

2. We ARE held to a higher standard than civilians which is why I can't pop you for mouthing off to me or use force via losing my temper. The spotlight's on us, not you.

3. Small crime prevention leads to big crime prevention.


Here's a story from last night:

All the normal units are slammed with calls and a priority domestic goes out. I'm down the block so I head there. I get on scene (mind you this is the super ghetto) and individual A walks up to me and is polite, cooperative, etc. I'm thinking "Wow, this is rare." Turns out he took five dollars from his baby's mother. She went apeshit and attacked him by throwing bleach all over him, etc. It took a lot of pulling to get that out of him due to past instances of aggravated battery. I talk to individual "B" now. B says that A took the money (okay) and then punched her in the head and ripped out her weave. She defended herself with the bleach. She was holding her one year old turning the entire incident and still doing so. Past history between A & B has revealed that she cut him with a kitchen knife last time and has attacked him prior to that.

After more detail finding, I'm going to take B to the pokey for felony battery, criminal mischief and felony neglect due to the child being doused in bleach during the fight. Now I tell her to hand the child to my assisting officer. She refuses. She then uses the CHILD as a tool to prevent prosecution all the while screaming, crying, cursing and so forth; IE the usual melo-drama that comes from this sort of incident coupled with screaming at me for being white, in her house and so forth.

I get in contact with B's mom, she comes to get the kid.... now B is without kid.....it's now go time. This lady is 8 mos pregenant and fighting. Great! We pacified her to some degree (sans force) and then escort her to the car. Now she's sitting in my car and gets informed of the charges (never do it prior). From this point on, it's about 30 minutes of "Cracka ass motha fucka! I'll fuck yo ass up, Why don't you go find some real crime you stank ass bitch" etc.

We go to the station so I can finish my associated affadavit. Now since she's foaming at the mouth, I decide to sit in my car with her, rather than attempt to get her into the holding cell.

She starts attempting to kick out my windows and the rear cage. Here comes the psychological nonsense "I'm in pain mothafucka, whatcha you gonna do about that?" That goes on for 10 minutes. Still no response from me as it's better to let them run out of steam and just not add to it. I'm watching her on the camera to make sure she's not actually hurt btw. Then it goes from pain to "I'm bleedin mothafucka" etc. No blood, no signs of injury nor has she moved. Plus she's too fat to actually see if she was bleeding. Here comes the next stage: "I'm havin contractions!..... If I lose this baby, I'm gonna sue yo cracka ass and own (my department). I wanna speak to the Chief! I want to speak to yo supavisa (Ma'am you already did) Fuck you cracka I wanna speak to his supavisa" I get all my stuff completed and head to the pokey.

First pokey won't take her due to pregnancy. Okay. B starts to make comments, I could care less, I'm getting paid to do this. Next pokey takes her. Prior to reaching pokey 2, she has another fit of childishness in the back and then finally starts to sob. Ahhh I think, the whole gravity of the incident has sunken in... Inside pokey 2 which looks like it belongs in a third world country, she starts mouthing off again. Wants to try and push little battles like who will walk first, etc. (You always walk behind them) I again here "Cracka motha fucka, etc." before they finally put her in on of the dungeoun's rooms.

So Kracker, was I pushing my authority on that lady, did I abuse my power, did I beat her or anything else? Was this crime nonsense?


this is Krackers basic problem, I don't like cops in general because outside of this website they all seem to be power tripping assholes; I do recognise however, they must put up with things I can't even imagin.

GuiltySpark
16th February 09, 01:20 PM
So avoid dealing with smaller crimes all together effectively letting people get away with, say driving driving 200kph down the road etc.. that way fewer criminals will get sent to prison because your worried that crminals that DO get sent to prison have a rough time there and when they get out of prison these often career criminals will have a harder time reintrigrating into soceity?
Is that about right?
Just curious, what are you in college for

Knave
16th February 09, 01:43 PM
Greetings.


I just see a severe problem with the fact that my neighborhood has zero crime and yet there are cops EVERYWHERE


o rly?

Phrost
16th February 09, 01:46 PM
I wanted to be a police officer at one time. Then I realized I'm already bitter and cynical enough when it comes to the human race.

GuiltySpark
16th February 09, 01:48 PM
Why don't you go find some real crime..." etc.
So Kracker (Cracka?) exhibits the same mindset of an 8 month-pregnant, racist, assault and battering ghetto bitch who was resiting arrest?

The plot thickens.



Originally Posted by kracker
I just see a severe problem with the fact that my neighborhood has zero crime and yet there are cops EVERYWHERE

=)

kracker
16th February 09, 01:54 PM
Sounds to me like equipose's story doesn't involve anything I was complaining about.
a) he got a call, he wasn't just standing and waiting around menacingly
b)He diffused a potentially deadly situation (real crime)
c)He didn't hit or taser the pregnant lady, which I freely admit was probably tempting
d)He didn't do this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6vBVUusmP0
I give it an A

Doritosaurus Chex
16th February 09, 02:02 PM
You guys don't understand. The police presence has nothing to do with the zero crime rate. That's like me I've never been attacked by tigers because of this rock I'm keeping in my pocket.

What you guys fail to realize that it's more effective to react to a crime in progress than it is to proactively prevent crimes.

GuiltySpark
16th February 09, 02:19 PM
So Kay, we should stop looking for IEDs (we find 30+ a month) and just react when they go off?
I'm trackin!
That makes sense.
I'm sure the crime rate wouldn't jump in Krackers area if all the bored police left.

Plus I think the tigers are afraid of your unicorn.

kracker
16th February 09, 02:20 PM
You guys don't understand. The police presence has nothing to do with the zero crime rate. That's like me I've never been attacked by tigers because of this rock I'm keeping in my pocket.

What you guys fail to realize that it's more effective to react to a crime in progress than it is to proactively prevent crimes.

That's the way I look at it. For the record my city never had crime even BEFORE to massive increase in police presence.

GuiltySpark
16th February 09, 02:23 PM
Kracker mind if I ask what you're taking in school?

Equipoise
16th February 09, 02:24 PM
That's the way I look at it. For the record my city never had crime even BEFORE to massive increase in police presence.

Kracker- I think he's being sarcastic....

kracker
16th February 09, 02:35 PM
Kracker mind if I ask what you're taking in school?

2nd year Psych major, 9.1 GPA (91%). If Kay was being sarcastic that's too bad because it was a good point.

WarPhalange
16th February 09, 03:05 PM
Is it better to use time and resources and arrest someone for a minor crime and prevent the larger ones or wait till they commit a lager one?

Loitering leads to rape?
Being drunk in public leads to murder?

Those are some pretty big jumps.

Equipoise
16th February 09, 03:05 PM
2nd year Psych major, 9.1 GPA (91%). If Kay was being sarcastic that's too bad because it was a good point.

Surely you can't be that stupid.


No, it's not. I don't think you realize that crime prevention is the key focus of law enforcement, not responding to a rape or shooting in progress. You complain about police presence in your city, however this is a good thing as it deters crime. Don't bother them, they won't bother you. Furthermore you speak about not having crime. You live in Plato's cave. You have absolutely no idea what they respond to. If you ask most people who don't have first hand experience in these sorts of things they think that their city has no crime, no murders, shootings or anything else....they're always wrong.



Loitering leads to rape?
Being drunk in public leads to murder?

Those are some pretty big jumps.


A lot of crimes are crimes of opportunity. His example would have been better if he said loitering leads to burglary and robbery, drug sales or criminal mischief.

Being drunk and disorderly leads to fighting, agg battery and possibly 2nd degree murder. I've seen individuals get into it and someone goes to their car and grabs a firearm resulting in dead people. I've also responded to a situation where two drunk individuals got into a fight over a Mango tree resulting in one individual fileting the other guy with a machete.

Kein Haar
16th February 09, 03:14 PM
Since when is GPA on a 10 point scale?

WarPhalange
16th February 09, 03:17 PM
I wanted to be a police officer at one time. Then I realized I'm already bitter and cynical enough when it comes to the human race.

Plus, you don't seem to have that disdain for the homeless and minorities that is required of a cop. You should hang out with Phil Elmore more often. Who knows, if you learn from him well enough, you might even gain some weight!

WarPhalange
16th February 09, 03:35 PM
No, it's not. I don't think you realize that crime prevention is the key focus of law enforcement, not responding to a rape or shooting in progress.

The greatest deterrent to doing "bad" things is knowing that punishment will be sure and swift. So you have a good chance of being caught and it will happen now, and not 10 years in the future.

If you see a cop standing on the street corner, down the road from the store you want to break in to, you are pretty damned sure that you will be caught and arrested the minute you try to smash a window. I'm not arguing with that.

But if you have cops busting people for smoking pot and zomg driving 10mph over the limit at 3am on an empty highway (lol NOB), then you have less people to a) stand on street corners and make sure people don't get fucking mugged (see note 1) and b) investigate the crimes that do happen.

If all you do is prevention, then people know that as long as they successfully commit the act, you won't catch them. Like with the rape scenario. If I know that the cops will only look for rapists in the immediate area because they don't have the resources to do a thorough investigation, then what is stopping someone from traveling somewhere else, getting their rape on, and then coming back home?


Being drunk and disorderly

No. We aren't talking about "disorderly". Being sober and disorderly is just as bad. We are saying the guy is drunk in public. That's all. He's walking down the street with a can of beer in his hand and not bothering anybody.

If you're going to arrest drunk people because they might get violent and commit a crime, then should you not also arrest people who look angry, because they might get violent as well?




Note 1: Rarely does a week go by without me getting an email from my university saying that Person X went out at night through Street Y and got mugged. Please don't go out at night and try to stick in groups yadda yadda.

Two obvious conclusions: don't go out at night when you are alone. Are you fucking stupid? And secondly, where are the cops? These are a few streets we are talking about here. People don't get mugged over by the golf courses, they usually get mugged on the street with all the stores and restaurants. Where the fuck are these god damned cops?

We had a homeless guy squatting in the physics building's student lounge. He was pretty clever, though. Every Monday we have a guest speaker have lunch with the students and talk about his/her work and the talk they will give later in the day. So this guy managed to somehow learn a bunch of physics buzz words so that he could blend in. He sure as hell fooled me. The pink shirt + camo jacket was very suspicious, plus the fact that he slept for a good 4 hours in the lounge, but I just thought physics students aren't known for their fashion sense and people sleep there all the time anyway.

In any case, a friend of mine saw him trying to sleep there at around 6pm. She has a key to the lounge, so she was allowed to go in. He didn't and it became obvious that he was homeless. She called the cops and gave him a heads up. Cops took about an hour to arrive. This is a room on the first floor next to a door to the building. Not hard to find. Admins were pissed when they heard how long it took.

Equipoise
16th February 09, 03:59 PM
But if you have cops busting people for smoking pot and zomg driving 10mph over the limit at 3am on an empty highway (lol NOB), then you have less people to a) stand on street corners and make sure people don't get fucking mugged (see note 1) and b) investigate the crimes that do happen.

Drug use is directly connected to other crimes. You can blame the system for that, but it is what it is for the time being. That's why we bust drug users. The speed limit issue depends on the officer. It's a great excuse to do some further investigation, however if it's some guy on his way home from work and not bothering anybody, he'll get sent on his way.





If all you do is prevention, then people know that as long as they successfully commit the act, you won't catch them. Like with the rape scenario. If I know that the cops will only look for rapists in the immediate area because they don't have the resources to do a thorough investigation, then what is stopping someone from traveling somewhere else, getting their rape on, and then coming back home?



What? Prevention of the entire situation is key, however we still do react to crime. You're making it too simplistic.



No. We aren't talking about "disorderly". Being sober and disorderly is just as bad. We are saying the guy is drunk in public. That's all. He's walking down the street with a can of beer in his hand and not bothering anybody.


Depends on where it is, who it is, etc. We have habitual drunks that often engage in violence and other crime. So that's why we bother them. If he's hammered and not bothering anybody, he's going to go to the pokey or with EMS so he doesn't walk out into traffic.


If you're going to arrest drunk people because they might get violent and commit a crime, then should you not also arrest people who look angry, because they might get violent as well?


I never said this. Don't radicalize the situation.


[
B]Note 1:[/B] Rarely does a week go by without me getting an email from my university saying that Person X went out at night through Street Y and got mugged. Please don't go out at night and try to stick in groups yadda yadda.

Two obvious conclusions: don't go out at night when you are alone. Are you fucking stupid? And secondly, where are the cops? These are a few streets we are talking about here. People don't get mugged over by the golf courses, they usually get mugged on the street with all the stores and restaurants. Where the fuck are these god damned cops?

Campus cops are not usually the highest echelon of police officer. It's a retirement position. Plus, the school has to put out safety bulletins to avoid getting sued.

kracker
16th February 09, 04:22 PM
Since when is GPA on a 10 point scale?

It's not always standardized to 4.0 in Canada. Some are 10, some are 12, and some are 4. Mine's out of 10.

Knave
16th February 09, 04:26 PM
The greatest deterrent to doing "bad" things is knowing that punishment will be sure and swift. So you have a good chance of being caught and it will happen now, and not 10 years in the future.

I agree. But unfortunately our system penalizes cops for dishing out sure and swift punishment.


He's walking down the street with a can of beer in his hand and not bothering anybody.

If you're going to arrest drunk people because they might get violent and commit a crime, then should you not also arrest people who look angry, because they might get violent as well?

Public drunkenness is policed because if there was no penalty for it more and more people would do it. The more drunk people there are on the streets, the more problems they cause. I enjoy being able to go about my day without dealing with a bunch of drunk people unless I go to an area designated for the consumption of alcohol. In the interest of peaceful living etc.


And secondly, where are the cops? These are a few streets we are talking about here. People don't get mugged over by the golf courses, they usually get mugged on the street with all the stores and restaurants. Where the fuck are these god damned cops?

They can't be everywhere at once, and I'll leave it at that without getting into the pros and cons of uniformed officers vs. plain clothes. Furthermore, a good number of them are tied up dealing with bullshit because people are stupid or can't act right.

I.E.
- baby mama drama
- motor vehicle accidents
- 911 prank calls
- misc. complaints (suspicious person, loud music, shots fired which was actually a car backfire or fire crackers etc)
- civil disputes
- people who flat out can't have normal relationships with family, friends, neighbors, etc, and have to call the police for things that aren't police matters

jubei33
16th February 09, 04:31 PM
wow that's 2.5 times better than a four point scale!



Public drunkenness is policed because if there was no penalty for it more and more people would do it. The more drunk people there are on the streets, the more problems they cause. I enjoy being able to go about my day without dealing with a bunch of drunk people unless I go to an area designated for the consumption of alcohol. In the interest of peaceful living etc.

note: japan, spain, england, etc don't have the dreaded open container laws. They probably have problems with it, but its not riots in the street. It's pretty enjoyable to grab a beer on a hot summer day and go to the park for a picnic or something. Just saying

kracker
16th February 09, 04:48 PM
We had a homeless guy squatting in the physics building's student lounge. He was pretty clever, though. Every Monday we have a guest speaker have lunch with the students and talk about his/her work and the talk they will give later in the day. So this guy managed to somehow learn a bunch of physics buzz words so that he could blend in. He sure as hell fooled me. The pink shirt + camo jacket was very suspicious, plus the fact that he slept for a good 4 hours in the lounge, but I just thought physics students aren't known for their fashion sense and people sleep there all the time anyway.

In any case, a friend of mine saw him trying to sleep there at around 6pm. She has a key to the lounge, so she was allowed to go in. He didn't and it became obvious that he was homeless. She called the cops and gave him a heads up. Cops took about an hour to arrive. This is a room on the first floor next to a door to the building. Not hard to find. Admins were pissed when they heard how long it took.

Now see, this is the kind of bullshit I'm talking about and why I hate the broken windows theory so much. The poor guy isn't doing anyone any harm and the Gestapo drag him away and toss him on the street. I really have come to like homeless people after having done community service in a soup kitchen. I don't see why they just don't leave them be. I can't think of one I met who would harm a soul. Just decent good people who are down on thier luck. It could happen to anyone.

Knave
16th February 09, 04:55 PM
Greetings.


They probably have problems with it, but its not riots in the street. It's pretty enjoyable to grab a beer on a hot summer day and go to the park for a picnic or something. Just saying

Different social contexts.

Anyway, http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=17214419&method=full&siteid=66633&headline=bbc-crisis-after-drunken-riots--name_page.html

Equipoise
16th February 09, 05:19 PM
Now see, this is the kind of bullshit I'm talking about and why I hate the broken windows theory so much. The poor guy isn't doing anyone any harm and the Gestapo drag him away and toss him on the street. I really have come to like homeless people after having done community service in a soup kitchen. I don't see why they just don't leave them be. I can't think of one I met who would harm a soul. Just decent good people who are down on thier luck. It could happen to anyone.

Why are you blaming the police versus the faculty and the individuals who don't want him there?

We just facilitated the needs of the persons who wanted him out. Also he didn't pay the university to use their facilities. Would this be okay behavior in a hotel? No. They'd toss him out on his keister also.

You also can't compare another country to the US in regards to container laws. We have completely different social policies and reactions to various social stimuli than other nations. You also can't just do away with the law in the US in the hopes it becomes socially acceptable and without problems in the same manner as other nations.

Spade: The Real Snake
16th February 09, 05:42 PM
Now see, this is the kind of bullshit I'm talking about and why I hate the broken windows theory so much. The poor guy isn't doing anyone any harm and the Gestapo drag him away and toss him on the street. I really have come to like homeless people after having done community service in a soup kitchen. I don't see why they just don't leave them be. I can't think of one I met who would harm a soul. Just decent good people who are down on thier luck. It could happen to anyone.

Then blame the college for not giving him a spare dorm room to shack up in.

Robot Jesus
16th February 09, 10:38 PM
I don’t think social context is really the issue here.

Open container laws are silly; I’m no more likely to harm anyone or anyone’s property with a beer in hand or not. I’m far more likely to do harm to people if I’m drunk whether or not I’m drinking at that moment or not, actually I may be disinclined as I may spill my drink.

All this requires is a legal distinction between drinking and drunk; perhaps a caveat for the ass hat drinking scotch straight from the bottle in the middle of the park, or the frat boys carrying around a keg in an adapted electric wheel chare (patent pending.)

Public intoxication laws should only punish those drinking in excess. If laws were changed to allow for this I could imagine a period of adjustment, but if a hefty fine is applied as well a PR campaign social context could change very quickly.

SFGOON
16th February 09, 10:46 PM
Now see, this is the kind of bullshit I'm talking about and why I hate the broken windows theory so much. The poor guy isn't doing anyone any harm and the Gestapo drag him away and toss him on the street. I really have come to like homeless people after having done community service in a soup kitchen. I don't see why they just don't leave them be. I can't think of one I met who would harm a soul. Just decent good people who are down on thier luck. It could happen to anyone.

Because they make good cover for psychopathic assholes. True story here...

There was this one homeless guy in college who was my enemy. We never spoke once or even made eye contact, but every time I was near him I wanted to bash his brains out with a jagged rock. He was a different kind of "bum" young - maybe my age, always skulking around and peeking out at people from behind his two feet of beard. A loner too - didn't have a gaggle he hung out with like the ave rats. A creepy sick fuck with whom I loathed sharing the planet. But he never actually DID anything, so everyone just left him alone. Even me.

So today I'm flipping through my emails at the police station and find out the guy recently committed a homicide and is wanted by the police. I recognized him from the photo and wished I had made use of that jagged rock.

Seattle organizes the homeless into tent cities. Sometimes it's begrudging, but it works. They self-police, hold regular community meetings, and for a lot of people it's a good step in re-integrating into society. Police do regular walk-throughs to make sure things aren't getting insanely out of hand and the city provides them vacant lots to set up in.

But, just letting the homeless run around haphazard is dangerous for them. They need to be organized. Not even sequestered, just organized. I'd bet dimes against dollars that my old "friend" killed another homeless guy.

Neildo
17th February 09, 03:53 AM
Now see, this is the kind of bullshit I'm talking about and why I hate the broken windows theory so much. The poor guy isn't doing anyone any harm and the Gestapo drag him away and toss him on the street. I really have come to like homeless people after having done community service in a soup kitchen. I don't see why they just don't leave them be. I can't think of one I met who would harm a soul. Just decent good people who are down on thier luck. It could happen to anyone.

wow you need to visit vancouver sometime. our homeless are all insane drug addicts that will throw a brick through your car window for an empty pack of cigarettes.


Drug use is directly connected to other crimes.

i agree that highly addictive drugs like crack, meth, and heroin would motivate an addict to commit a crime in order to score their next hit, but i'd like to know the last time someone knocked over a liquor store, mugged your grandma, or broke into someones house to get their next bag of marijuana. where are those stats?

socratic
17th February 09, 08:17 AM
Just for the record, Ted Bundy was pulled over (and subsequently re-arrested, having fled prison) for having a broken tail light. He just happened to be fleeing the state at the time, too.

Ten Bundy who raped and killed more than 30 people.

So that's one big fat fucking point for Equipoise- enforcing 'minor' crimes does, on the occasion, bust perpetrators of 'big' crimes.

SFGOON
17th February 09, 08:38 AM
My department just goes to this one shitty stretch of highway and runs plates all day long. 90% of our arrests come from BS traffic stops. All of our calls for service are like "Young man my kitty is in a tree!" or "Young man would you like a peppermint?" or "Bethy Sue copied my crochet patterns!"

GuiltySpark
17th February 09, 08:56 AM
Ahh, I just realized Kracked trolled us.

I was thinking, could someone be that daft?
Could an adult really believe that it's a good idea to just worry about "real crime"? (and not be one of those duhh im an anarchist the world would be a better place with no laws types)

Then I rememebered a psych project (?)
Students would tie a string around their wrist or finger and walk around school.
People would start asking what the string was for and the psych students would answer nothing, or, I can't say etc..
Some people would reply sure whatever and others more negitive. Uh i guess it means your gay LOLZ fag.

After a week of this the much stressed out psych students would meet and discuss the comments they received and mentally masturbate each other (much like aikido students do in discussions).

Nice job Kracker.

Equipoise
17th February 09, 10:39 AM
wow you need to visit vancouver sometime. our homeless are all insane drug addicts that will throw a brick through your car window for an empty pack of cigarettes.



i agree that highly addictive drugs like crack, meth, and heroin would motivate an addict to commit a crime in order to score their next hit, but i'd like to know the last time someone knocked over a liquor store, mugged your grandma, or broke into someones house to get their next bag of marijuana. where are those stats?

In regards to marijuana, they tend to kill/attack other dealers for territory, product, etc. Innocents get blasted for being in the same social group/family/house.

Recently a shooting in Liberty City was the result of drug dealing (marijuana). It made CNN as some kids drove by with an AK and sprayed everybody on that corner.

Goon, get a year or two in basic police work where you are and if you're bored, you can always come down my way. I'm positive I could get you a position.

kracker
17th February 09, 12:04 PM
In regards to marijuana, they tend to kill/attack other dealers for territory, product, etc. Innocents get blasted for being in the same social group/family/house.

Recently a shooting in Liberty City was the result of drug dealing (marijuana). It made CNN as some kids drove by with an AK and sprayed everybody on that corner.

Goon, get a year or two in basic police work where you are and if you're bored, you can always come down my way. I'm positive I could get you a position.

Seems to me like that problem could be solved right away by legalizing it. Also that's a negative stereotype, I know some drug dealers who aren't the least bit violent.

kracker
17th February 09, 12:06 PM
[quote=Neildo]wow you need to visit vancouver sometime. our homeless are all insane drug addicts that will throw a brick through your car window for an empty pack of cigarettes.
quote]

Have you ever taken the time to actually meet or talk with one? Didn't think so.

Robot Jesus
17th February 09, 12:25 PM
In regards to marijuana, they tend to kill/attack other dealers for territory, product, etc. Innocents get blasted for being in the same social group/family/house.

Recently a shooting in Liberty City was the result of drug dealing (marijuana). It made CNN as some kids drove by with an AK and sprayed everybody on that corner.

Goon, get a year or two in basic police work where you are and if you're bored, you can always come down my way. I'm positive I could get you a position.


I know kracker already said it, but that has nothing to do with the drug and everything to do with its black market status.

You just made an argument for legalization, if pot were regulated and distributed where fine hooch is sold the problems you describe would cease to be.

Equipoise
17th February 09, 12:31 PM
But it's not legal for the time being. So I will continue to arrest drug users and dealers. That's a whole other issue than this thread.



Also that's a negative stereotype, I know some drug dealers who aren't the least bit violent.

HA! Has their market status ever been threatened? If so they either retaliated or backed out of the game completely.

Edit: One thing about Marijuana that baffles me is why it's in the Schedule I category while PCP and other hallucinogens are in Schedule II, wtf?

GuiltySpark
17th February 09, 12:45 PM
In regards to marijuana, they tend to kill/attack other dealers for territory, product, etc. Innocents get blasted for being in the same social group/family/house.

Recently a shooting in Liberty City was the result of drug dealing (marijuana). It made CNN as some kids drove by with an AK and sprayed everybody on that corner.

Goon, get a year or two in basic police work where you are and if you're bored, you can always come down my way. I'm positive I could get you a position.

Thats bull.
Homeless people never hurt nobody and drugs never hurt no one either.
It's my body it should be my choice what i put into it.
The government is trying to take away my god given rights!

If we just legalized more crimes then we would have less crime, technically.
Thats genius!

Make buying and selling drugs legal and we won't have any murders because of drugs!

EuropIan
17th February 09, 12:50 PM
Edit: One thing about Marijuana that baffles me is why it's in the Schedule I category while PCP and other hallucinogens are in Schedule II, wtf?
When it comes to MJ, there seems to be alot tinfoilhattery about the criminalisation of it.



As for for the open container law. It's retarded. I know you'll enforce it because you have to, Equipoise, . It's still retarded though.

Robot Jesus
17th February 09, 01:06 PM
When it comes to MJ, there seems to be alot tinfoilhattery about the criminalisation of it.



As for for the open container law. It's retarded. I know you'll enforce it because you have to, Equipoise, . It's still retarded though.

seconded

EuropIan
17th February 09, 01:17 PM
Also, since I'd like to keep the amount of "outrage against LEOs"-threads to a minimum.

Here's a video from Fresno:

kfXsY1V0d4U

I guess my underlying fear is that I have to suffer because a policemanofficer had a bad day.

Cullion
17th February 09, 01:34 PM
HA! Has their market status ever been threatened? If so they either retaliated or backed out of the game completely.

I've met drug dealers who just negotiate over these things with each other. Again, I think it's a selection bias thing. You encounter the percentage of a given population who cause all the visible trouble (e.g. violence), and don't get so much of an impression about the submerged 'low noise' examples.

Fearless Ukemi
17th February 09, 02:00 PM
From the sounds of it, he also works in a shitty jurisdiction where drug related violence is far more common than negotiation.

Neildo
17th February 09, 02:19 PM
In regards to marijuana, they tend to kill/attack other dealers for territory, product, etc. Innocents get blasted for being in the same social group/family/house.

Recently a shooting in Liberty City was the result of drug dealing (marijuana). It made CNN as some kids drove by with an AK and sprayed everybody on that corner.

Goon, get a year or two in basic police work where you are and if you're bored, you can always come down my way. I'm positive I could get you a position.

well, yeah, i suppose gangsters kill eachother over dumb shit like that up here too. in fact, we have a gang war raging right now, something like 9 people have already died in the last 2 weeks. but that's just dumb gangsters doing dumb gangster shit. they'd do that over anything.

EuropIan
17th February 09, 02:30 PM
Politicians started a gang war by trying to further criminalize marijuana by closing (temporarily)trade in Christiania (it's a hippie enclave in Cph).

Frank White
17th February 09, 03:18 PM
My mom went to church every day, twice on sunday. She also sold marijuana. True, her market status was never threatened (because she was my mom), but most people who sell marijuana do so because they don't want to deal with the violence and addicts associated with hard drugs.

Most turf wars involve marijuana sales in conjunction with harder drugs. The violence involving marijuana usually comes from robbing large quantities from dealers. ALthough weed dealers generally tend to be non-violent, it does happen. Even legalized medicinal dealers are robbed.

I've been to Christiana (no, I don't smoke weed). There have always been attempts to take it over by other gangs (biker gangs, Turks, Russians, etc). The woman who ran it wasn't able to leave the place without fear of assassination. But it did keep things in order, in an out-of-site out-of-mind sort of way. What I didn't like was the sale of weed to minors that took place there.

EuropIan
17th February 09, 03:29 PM
I've been to Christiana (no, I don't smoke weed). There have always been attempts to take it over by other gangs (biker gangs, Turks, Russians, etc). The woman who ran it wasn't able to leave the place without fear of assassination. But it did keep things in order, in an out-of-site out-of-mind sort of way. What I didn't like was the sale of weed to minors that took place there.
I just found it funny that stopping a long ongoing criminal business, even momentarily, created more crime.

What did you mean by out-of-sight, out-of-mind though?

(There should be a pratchetian thieves guild.)

Equipoise
17th February 09, 03:31 PM
Ian and Cullion-

The open container laws are not state laws btw. They're city and/or county ordinances. Some cities don't have them. However in Miami-Dade, it's a big thing as alcohol plays a big part in the violent crime that we get. Like I said earlier, some guy got hacked to pieces with a machete over an argument concerning a Mango tree while both were intoxicated.

Since much of Europe is less puritanical and usually has far more mature societies, you're not going to see a quarter of the crime associated with it as you would in the US.

Robot Jesus
17th February 09, 03:32 PM
My mom went to church every day, twice on sunday. She also sold marijuana. True, her market status was never threatened (because she was my mom), but most people who sell marijuana do so because they don't want to deal with the violence and addicts associated with hard drugs.

Most turf wars involve marijuana sales in conjunction with harder drugs. The violence involving marijuana usually comes from robbing large quantities from dealers. ALthough weed dealers generally tend to be non-violent, it does happen. Even legalized medicinal dealers are robbed. I train with someone who works at a cannibus club. He will shoot anyone who tries to rob the place.

I've been to Christiana (no, I don't smoke weed). There have always been attempts to take it over by other gangs (biker gangs, Turks, Russians, etc). The woman who ran it wasn't able to leave the place without fear of assassination. But it did keep things in order, in an out-of-site out-of-mind sort of way. What I didn't like was the sale of weed to minors that took place there.


just curious, but what denomination.

Frank White
17th February 09, 03:36 PM
I just found it funny that stopping a long ongoing criminal business, even momentarily, created more crime.

What did you mean by out-of-sight, out-of-mind though?

(There should be a pratchetian thieves guild.)

out-of-site, out-of-mind, in some countries in Europe, they tend to allow the sale of drugs (and prostitution) in certain areas. This keeps these activities out of the way of the general public, like the way prostitution is legal outside city limits in Nevada. Doesn't solve anything though, and probably makes it easier for criminal organizations to make money.

Frank White
17th February 09, 03:36 PM
just curious, but what denomination.

Catholic, of course.

EuropIan
17th February 09, 03:46 PM
out-of-site, out-of-mind, in some countries in Europe, they tend to allow the sale of drugs (and prostitution) in certain areas. This keeps these activities out of the way of the general public, like the way prostitution is legal outside city limits in Nevada. Doesn't solve anything though, and probably makes it easier for criminal organizations to make money.
Ah I see. well in this case I would say that the symbolic posturing made it worse. Kinda like stepping on a turd and bringing it into the house, only to intentionally wipe your feet on the couch.


Equipose- We have plenty of savagry, but it's heavily state subsidized.

Also I just don't buy that "you guys are just more civilized like that"-stuff

Frank White
17th February 09, 03:55 PM
Ah I see. well in this case I would say that the symbolic posturing made it worse. Kinda like stepping on a turd and bringing it into the house, only to intentionally wipe your feet on the couch.


I think of it more as wiping your feet in your backyard, which is the whole point of keeping it out-of-site. Although it might make it easier, if business becomes more difficult, it tend to drive prices up, making it more profitable.

Sun Wukong
17th February 09, 04:00 PM
I think this is a retarded question to begin with.

It is true that I get nervous everytime I see a cop, but that's only because of the 1 or 2 times I got royally fucked over a by a cop while being damn near completely innocent of wrong doing. If I hadn't been such a hard ass in the army, I might not be very understanding, but cops get paid to be shit on all day so it's only natural for some of them to be a little jaded and overly aggressive.

Most cops want to do their jobs right and go home just like everyone else does, and for the fact that as a cop they are constantly in jeopardy of being screwed over or putting their life in danger I think they mostly deserve a pat on the back.

EuropIan
17th February 09, 04:03 PM
I was specifically talking about the government clearing out "pusher street" and the consequences of this.

Prices and availability are about the same (actually more widespread), only now people shoot each other more.

kracker
17th February 09, 04:09 PM
Also, since I'd like to keep the amount of "outrage against LEOs"-threads to a minimum.

Here's a video from Fresno:

kfXsY1V0d4U

I guess my underlying fear is that I have to suffer because a policemanofficer had a bad day.

Now watch what happens to those two thugs beating a starving man twenty years their senior. *tumbleweed rolls by* Higher standards my ass.

EuropIan
17th February 09, 04:12 PM
The worst part is the chief trying to defend it.

Frank White
17th February 09, 04:16 PM
I was specifically talking about the government clearing out "pusher street" and the consequences of this.

Prices and availability are about the same (actually more widespread), only now people shoot each other more.

I agree with you. From what I was told about Christiana, the police would raid once a month, the dealers would leave some weed for the cops to "confiscate", the public would be satisfied, and business would continue.

If it is indeed shut down, I could definitely see the problems coming from other organizations vying for contol of the market.

EuropIan
17th February 09, 04:25 PM
That is exactly what happened.

Pusher street was cleared out and then there was a huge hole in the market -> new turf wars.

Zendetta
17th February 09, 04:26 PM
One thing about Marijuana that baffles me is why it's in the Schedule I category while PCP and other hallucinogens are in Schedule II, wtf?

Because it makes you Rape White Women, of course.

One cannot make sense of marijuana prohibition unless you understand the roles played by Hearst, Anslinger, and Dupont, among others.

Frank White
17th February 09, 04:27 PM
One cannot make sense of marijuana prohibition unless you understand the roles played by Hearst, Anslinger, and Dupont, among others.

Exactamundo.

EuropIan
17th February 09, 04:28 PM
Is that the paper vs. hemp thing?

Zendetta
17th February 09, 04:36 PM
Paper, Diesel Fuel, and (what was at that time cutting-edge) Plastics Technology.

The problem with the cannabis plant is that it is too useful. The fact that it gets you high was simply an excuse for prohibition.

EuropIan
17th February 09, 04:39 PM
How much evidence is there to back that up?

Zendetta
17th February 09, 04:52 PM
Quite a bit, but I'm at work so you'll have to research it yourself.

But for a teaser:

Fuel

Biodiesel sampleBiofuels such as biodiesel and alcohol fuel can be made from the oils in hemp seeds and stalks, and the fermentation of the plant as a whole, respectively. The energy from hemp may be high based on acreage or weight, but can be low based on the volume of the light weight harvested hemp.[citation needed] It does, however, produce more energy per acre per year than corn, sugar, flax, or any other crop currently grown for ethanol or biodiesel.

Henry Ford grew industrial hemp on his estate after 1937,[29] possibly to prove the cheapness of methanol production at Iron Mountain. He made plastic cars with wheat straw, hemp and sisal. (Popular Mechanics, Dec. 1941, "Pinch Hitters for Defense.") In 1892, Rudolph Diesel invented the diesel engine, which he intended to fuel "by a variety of fuels, especially vegetable and seed oils."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemp#Fuel

Kein Haar
17th February 09, 05:11 PM
This is getting boring.

This is not boring:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmmDRtXXJLU&feature=related

Equipoise
17th February 09, 05:23 PM
Most turf wars involve marijuana sales in conjunction with harder drugs.

Unless you're referring to Scarface, no I've seen quite a bit of violence only stem from marijuana.



The violence involving marijuana usually comes from robbing large quantities from dealers.

Wrong



ALthough weed dealers generally tend to be non-violent

Wrong, again.

SuperGuido
17th February 09, 05:29 PM
The only people I know who have had issues with police offers are those who cannot and will not respect the authority of an LEO.

I can't count the number of times I've been given warnings instead of tickets simply because I was polite, respectful, non-threatening, and did what I was told. It's the folks who try to argue and debate with cops that end up getting attitude.

At least in my experience. Maybe I'm just lucky.

EuropIan
17th February 09, 05:31 PM
You are undoubtedly right, because those disputes were mostly about money.

Compare with gang wars during the prohibition.

Equipoise
17th February 09, 05:51 PM
You realize gangs fuel their endeavors with OTHER things than drugs, right?

EuropIan
17th February 09, 06:39 PM
I'm saying if playmobile toys were a valued illegal commodity there would be a playmobile related shootout.

Zendetta
17th February 09, 06:42 PM
LOL. Dare to Keep Kids Off Playmobile!

ICY
17th February 09, 06:44 PM
To Disrespect and Unnerve...


http://www.foxnews.com/images/238399/2_61_111006_police_beating2.jpg

http://www.phawker.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/police-brutality.jpg

...and just because I found it in my search for the rest of this crap...

http://www.hairyfishnuts.com/images/stormtroopers.jpg

Harpy
17th February 09, 07:05 PM
This is a pro-police post:

http://www.justicedenied.org/policeman%20shooting%20a%20plastic%20pellet%20weap on%20at%20demonstrators%20in%20seattle.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/251/520508484_8ba2d57144.jpg

http://msnbcmedia1.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/070303/070303_russia_hmed_12p.hmedium.jpg

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
17th February 09, 07:57 PM
Unless you're referring to Scarface, no I've seen quite a bit of violence only stem from marijuana.

Wrong

Wrong, again.

Do you have any experience with pot dealers aside from arresting them?

Equipoise
17th February 09, 08:11 PM
Yes, I've done undercover work. You have absolutely no idea of the shit you see on the inside.

Robot Jesus
17th February 09, 08:23 PM
all the dealers I know are small time grow op unaffiliated with the gangs. I also know a guy with a chem degree who cooks acid.

but In my city pot is defacto legal as long as someone doesn’t set up a stand or anything.

Harpy
17th February 09, 08:33 PM
all the dealers I know are small time grow op unaffiliated with the gangs. I also know a guy with a chem degree who cooks acid.

but In my city pot is defacto legal as long as someone doesn’t set up a stand or anything.

Hahahah, how naive if you think your "my fwiends are not criminals, its just a little side hobby and they're really smart with their chem degrees and they have nothing to do with da gangz".

'Defacto legal'? WTH is that? They are doing the wrong thing, you have NO damn idea if they are affiliated with gangs or if the pot they sell links them to gangs/minors etc. They are criminals, the definition is broad but the law definitely puts them in that category.

Robot Jesus
17th February 09, 08:42 PM
in hindsight I over stated it

yes they are legally criminals, most of the dealers I know run small time grow ops.

Although to be fair I don't know many. Most of them want you to hang around for an hour or so. Most dealers are losers, these guys are just gigantic potheads who are willing to hook someone up. My estimate is that they smoke about half their crop.

by defacto legal I mean that the prohibition is largely unenforced. I had a cousin come up from Sacramento and he was shocked at how many dealers there were and how brazen they were. downtown pretty much everyone who isn’t dressed professionally but not obviously homeless is a dealer.

Harpy
17th February 09, 08:43 PM
Okay, I understand the point you were trying to make (better in ^ post). Sorry for being a bitch.

Robot Jesus
17th February 09, 08:54 PM
I would also like to add that i don't smoke pot anymore, nothing about it's legality. It just that the last time i smoked I didn’t get high (euphoric, elated, giggly) I just got stoned and hungry (slow of wit, listless, bad a tekken). I did not enjoy it so I have no desire to do it again.

Harpy
17th February 09, 10:37 PM
Hallelujah!

P.S. - I'm glad you are no longer a pot head

Knave
18th February 09, 02:22 AM
Greetings.

RE: the homeless guy beatdown video

Face punches were probably unnecessary. Should've just sprayed and tased the guy until he complied.

Frank White
18th February 09, 02:29 AM
Unless you're referring to Scarface, no I've seen quite a bit of violence only stem from marijuana.
so have I . Far less than cocaine. That is why there are crack whores and not weed whores. Scarface?


Wrong


maybe.


Wrong, again.

nope.

People who smoke weed are generally harmless, that's why the people who cater to them exclusively tend to be similar.

People who sell weed as well as sell coke, commit robberies, and are in gangs are of course dangerous.

Steve
18th February 09, 03:37 AM
This whole people who sell etc etc crap is nonsense. Let it be a barter system and let the police bust cash deals.

Kein Haar
18th February 09, 09:39 AM
Do you have any experience with pot dealers aside from arresting them?

Small, personal anecdote.

A good friend in high school was a dealer of sorts. Not gang affiliated. Generally just sold to his immediate friends. He didn't need the money, because his parents lived in a sub-division with it's own air strip.

None the less, trouble still found him. People who WERE gang affiliated (or at least wanna-bes) didn't like him doing it at all, so they'd throw bricks through his window and stuff.

Which means such riff-raff was brought into the neighborhood when there otherwise wouldn't be any reason for it; including the unsavories he had to buy his quantities from.

As such, little crimes of opportunities (like car burglaries) present themselves in the course of their travels to people who generally don't respect the law.

Here is where a lot of my doper friends in high school lived:

http://www.city-data.com/city/Hinsdale-Illinois.html

Naive to the upper-crust of drug use, I am not. Nor the lower-rung, actually.

Wow...come to think of, it, I've been out of my mom's basement for quite a while! I might have seen a thing or two!

What's my point...?

Right, that illegal activity does attract assholes. The illegal nature creates a stigma which is attractive to fat hispanic kids who wear air-brushed scarface t-shirts.

So, it shouldn't be illegal. But since it is, the truth is that the environment under which it is bought and sold creates a kind of haze of unsavoriness which follows it.

Kind of like Pigpen from Peanuts.

Zendetta
18th February 09, 12:46 PM
A friend of mine's brother used to deal weed. Thugs broke in and ran a train on his girlfriend.


So, it shouldn't be illegal. But since it is, the truth is that the environment under which it is bought and sold creates a kind of haze of unsavoriness which follows it.

Much like alcohol prohibition. Nobody shoots anyone over bathtub gin anymore.

Fearless Ukemi
18th February 09, 01:36 PM
Hallelujah!

P.S. - I'm glad you are no longer a pot head


Why does it matter if he is or isn't?

GuiltySpark
18th February 09, 02:39 PM
She's glad about his well being.

Would be like me saying I'm glad you're not an alcoholic.
Lily is Rockapes wife and rockape does aikido and aikido means you love everyone so it rubbed off on her.

Spade: The Real Snake
18th February 09, 02:44 PM
She's glad about his well being.

Would be like me saying I'm glad you're not an alcoholic.
Lily is Rockapes wife and rockape does aikido and aikido means you love everyone so it rubbed off on her.

Are you saying RockApe has rubbed off on Lulzy?

Frank White
18th February 09, 02:46 PM
A woman was killed during a robbery, by a heroin addict. She had a pound of marijuana. A girl called the police anonymously, and informed them of the murderers name. The police arrested the killer, played the recording of the anonymous phone call to the killer, who recognized the callers voice, and he was bailed out of jail. The killer attempted to murder the 'snitch', but was prevented by gangbangers who were nearby. They might have been wearing Scarface shirts, who knows.

This means: weed is bad, heroin is bad, snitching is dangerous, cops are stupid, and gangbangers are good.

Or maybe Steve is right.

Fearless Ukemi
18th February 09, 03:54 PM
She's glad about his well being.

Would be like me saying I'm glad you're not an alcoholic.
Lily is Rockapes wife and rockape does aikido and aikido means you love everyone so it rubbed off on her.


You're comparing alcoholism with being a pothead which is a bad comparison.

Alcohol is hepatotoxic and can kill you by itself with no interaction from other drugs. Plus withdrawal can be fatal.

I'm not saying pot is good, but it certainly won't kill you unless maybe you develop lung cancer.

It sure didn't stop Michael Phelps from achieving his goals.

GuiltySpark
18th February 09, 03:55 PM
Are you saying RockApe has rubbed off on Lulzy?

Naturally.

Zendetta
18th February 09, 04:02 PM
I'm not saying pot is good, but it certainly won't kill you unless maybe you develop lung cancer.

And strangely, hardcore chronic bongoloids actually not at an increased risk for lung cancer.

http://www.webmd.com/lung-cancer/news/20060523/pot-smoking-not-linked-to-lung-cancer

Seems that THC might have some anti-tumor properties.

EuropIan
18th February 09, 04:09 PM
And strangely, hardcore chronic bongoloids actually not at an increased risk for lung cancer.

http://www.webmd.com/lung-cancer/news/20060523/pot-smoking-not-linked-to-lung-cancer

Seems that THC might have some anti-tumor properties.
BUT YOUR BALLS! OMG YOUR BALLS!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7869709.stm

Zendetta
18th February 09, 04:11 PM
eh, they like a little challenge.

I will be the first to admit that many marijuana smokers do in fact lack testicular fortitude.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
18th February 09, 04:13 PM
do they lack testicular fortitude
or are they faded and don't want to do it

Harpy
18th February 09, 04:18 PM
Why does it matter if he is or isn't?

It doesn't personally matter to me but in general I prefer to know that people take care of themselves and stay away from mind-altering substances. Not making a judgement call about the 'ill-effects' of pot as opposed to other substances.

OZZ
18th February 09, 04:27 PM
Why do people around here love cops so much? What do they do for you as a citizen? What service do they provide you? Even the good ones can't help you unless you're getting mugged in broad daylight with a good cop just happening to be next to you. Then, to pay for this, you have to pay the salary of the ones that bully, steal from, beat and kill you, often for no reason. Why do you defend those ones? Would society not be better if we take 3/4 of the cops off the street and only give them time and resources to prosecute real crimes and not harrass homeless people, drug users, speed trap victims and ethnic minorities to relieve the boredom associated with there being too many of them per actual crime? I'm just asking and I will listen if I'm overlooking something in my worldview. I really just want to understand. I'm not trying to offend the LEOs on this forum.

Grow up.

Zendetta
18th February 09, 04:32 PM
do they lack testicular fortitude
or are they faded and don't want to do it

Same difference.


It doesn't personally matter to me but in general I prefer to know that people take care of themselves and stay away from mind-altering substances.

What is this puritanical bullshit?!??!

Homo Sapiens isn't the only species that likes to get high.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
18th February 09, 04:37 PM
It doesn't personally matter to me but in general I prefer to know that people take care of themselves and stay away from mind-altering substances. Not making a judgement call about the 'ill-effects' of pot as opposed to other substances.

What does staying away from mind-altering substances have to do with taking care of yourself?

Harpy
18th February 09, 04:38 PM
I'm not saying it nots in our nature to seek those things, I'm just puritanical when it comes to my body and what I put in it. I've never smoked and never tried drugs and barely touch alcohol, in fact I think its been nearly 3 years since I had alcohol.

My life is great!!!!

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
18th February 09, 04:38 PM
Same difference.

I don't do manual labor when I'm high, because it kills the high. Want me to help you lift some shit after I've finished a bowl? How about you fuck off until it wears off?

Harpy
18th February 09, 04:38 PM
What does staying away from mind-altering substances have to do with taking care of yourself?

What part of mind-altering do you not get?

Spade: The Real Snake
18th February 09, 04:41 PM
I don't do manual labor when I'm high, because it kills the high. Want me to help you lift some shit after I've finished a bowl? How about you fuck off until it wears off?

doesn't manual labor chip your nail polish, anyhow?

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
18th February 09, 04:46 PM
What part of mind-altering do you not get?

When did mind-altering become synonymous with unhealthy? Do you know what happens when pot wears off? You stop feeling comfortable and silly. The worst comedown you'll get is feeling drowsy for a few hours. This isn't metham-fucking-phetamine we're talking about.

Zendetta
18th February 09, 04:49 PM
I don't do manual labor when I'm high

Dude, WTF? I can't handle the tedium unless I'm high. Seriously, get a job landscaping or housepainting or doing carpentry. You boss will probably smoke you down.


Want me to help you lift some shit after I've finished a bowl? How about you fuck off until it wears off?

How 'bout you get your punk ass off the couch and let's box for bonghits???

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
18th February 09, 04:49 PM
Yes, I've done undercover work. You have absolutely no idea of the shit you see on the inside.

The inside of what?

EuropIan
18th February 09, 04:50 PM
You do weed after the physical labour.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
18th February 09, 04:51 PM
Dude, WTF? I can't handle the tedium unless I'm high. Seriously, get a job landscaping or housepainting or doing carpentry. You boss will probably smoke you down.

I get high all the time to make work pass, but the worst thing I have to deal with there is moving a stack of pizza boxes or something. Every time I've gotten faded and followed it up with something intense, like putting up a fence, I find that I don't stay very high.


How 'bout you get your punk ass off the couch and let's box for bonghits???

you gonna break the bong man

Harpy
18th February 09, 04:51 PM
I get your point, someone who does pot actually does it to 'take care' of themselves in terms of getting the enjoyment of the high?

I guess all positive response is about altering the chemical balance in the mind but I like to differentiate those things we do to feel good between those that have positive and negative effects on our physical/mental health. I consider pot to have a negative effect overall.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
18th February 09, 04:57 PM
You do weed after the physical labour.

it's medicinal man


I get your point, someone who does pot actually does it to 'take care' of themselves in terms of getting the enjoyment of the high?

I guess all positive response is about altering the chemical balance in the mind but I like to differentiate those things we do to feel good between those that have positive and negative effects on our physical/mental health. I consider pot to have a negative effect overall.

How? Once you come down the THC isn't really going to do anything except make you fail a drug test for the next week. Ever hear of marijuana flashbacks? That's because they don't happen.

Harpy
18th February 09, 05:00 PM
I can't really afford down time (or Downs time) between work, training, trying to not get burnt in the kitchen. Enjoy your pot though.

Just a question, are you disappointed with life as it is when you come off the high and can't appreciate what's in front of you without altering your state of mind?

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
18th February 09, 05:04 PM
I can't really afford down time (or Downs time) between work, training, trying to not get burnt in the kitchen. Enjoy your pot though.

So you don't have free time, is what you're telling me?


Just a question, are you disappointed with life as it is when you come off the high and can't appreciate what's in front of you without altering your state of mind?

No, Dr. Phil. I get high because it makes music, movies, and friends even more fun than they already are.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
18th February 09, 05:06 PM
food too

Kein Haar
18th February 09, 05:06 PM
If I had MJS's life, I would not want to experience reality unaltered. Would you?

Not unless you like stretching your anus around middle aged cock in exchange for stems and seeds and petty cash.

EuropIan
18th February 09, 05:06 PM
I can't really afford down time (or Downs time) between work, training, trying to not get burnt in the kitchen. Enjoy your pot though.

Just a question, are you disappointed with life as it is when you come off the high and can't appreciate what's in front of you without altering your state of mind?
That's a mighty high horse, little missy.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
18th February 09, 05:11 PM
If I had MJS's life, I would not want to experience reality unaltered. Would you?

Not unless you like stretching your anus around middle aged cock in exchange for stems and seeds and petty cash.

i think i could sell my ass for A LOT more than that.

Kein Haar
18th February 09, 05:12 PM
Not anymore, old timer.

The pedo ship has SAILED.

Harpy
18th February 09, 05:13 PM
So you don't have free time, is what you're telling me?

I have free time, I just like being aware and able to deal with life without something clouding/softening the view.



No, Dr. Phil. I get high because it makes music, movies, and friends even more fun than they already are.
Maybe you need to get better friends, music and movies if you need to add pot to make them more fun.

Harpy
18th February 09, 05:15 PM
That's a mighty high horse, little missy.

You going to try to shoot me down?

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
18th February 09, 05:16 PM
Not anymore, old timer.

The pedo ship has SAILED.

what's your point? i still think my ass is worth more than that, shit.

EuropIan
18th February 09, 05:18 PM
You going to try to shoot me down?
Do you like coffee?

Harpy
18th February 09, 05:19 PM
Makes me nauseous, why?

Feryk
18th February 09, 05:22 PM
shit.

Literally.

EuropIan
18th February 09, 05:29 PM
Makes me nauseous, why?
Do you view habitual coffee users as people who "can't appreciate what's in front of you without altering your state of mind.."?

Harpy
18th February 09, 05:43 PM
My dear Ian, please take my comments in the context of the below post:


Originally Posted by Lily
I guess all positive response is about altering the chemical balance in the mind but I like to differentiate those things we do to feel good between those that have positive and negative effects on our physical/mental health. I consider pot to have a negative effect overall.


By the way, I think an apple for breakfast or a good morning jog is more beneficial to one's health than a cup of coffee.

EuropIan
18th February 09, 05:47 PM
Do you like tea?

(This time I'm asking you out.)

Fearless Ukemi
18th February 09, 05:48 PM
Just a question, are you disappointed with life as it is when you come off the high and can't appreciate what's in front of you without altering your state of mind?


That's a loaded question, but I'll give you an answer as to why I smoke pot in the form of a question.

Why do you fuck?

Harpy
18th February 09, 05:49 PM
Do you like tea?

(This time I'm asking you out.)

I thought as much. Hmmm, how about we go on a jogging date? If you can keep up you get a second date.

Feryk
18th February 09, 05:52 PM
How 'bout if he keeps up, you skip right to the third date? Gotta give him some incentive.

Harpy
18th February 09, 05:56 PM
That's a loaded question, but I'll give you an answer as to why I smoke pot in the form of a question.

Why do you fuck?

To maintain some semblance of dignity I'll present to you my former post:



Originally Posted by Lily
I guess all positive response is about altering the chemical balance in the mind but I like to differentiate those things we do to feel good between those that have positive and negative effects on our physical/mental health. I consider pot to have a negative effect overall.

Fearless Ukemi
18th February 09, 05:57 PM
So you didn't really want an answer then.

Harpy
18th February 09, 06:00 PM
I would still like to hear your answer regarding whether life without pot is slightly less pleasant, friends less fun etc.

Plus sex is a natural instinct of the body, how can you truly compare sex to pot?

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
18th February 09, 06:04 PM
Getting fucked up is apparently a natural instinct too. We're not the only animals who do it.

Zendetta
18th February 09, 06:07 PM
its basic Maslow heirarchy of needs:
deal with basic survival issues
get laid
expand your conciousness/peak experience

Feryk
18th February 09, 06:07 PM
Euphoria is a powerful stimulus. Does it surprise you that other animals like doing it?

Doesn't mean it's good for you in the long term.

Harpy
18th February 09, 06:08 PM
Just because other species are doing it does not mean we have to/justify our need to.

I don't believe getting 'fucked up' is a natural instinct, its more like a coping mechanism external from our body's ability to heal, process things internally etc.

Zendetta
18th February 09, 06:11 PM
I don't believe getting 'fucked up' is a natural instinct

Well, then you are ignorant/in denial/missing out.

http://www.cracked.com/article_17032_7-species-that-get-high-more-than-we-do.html

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
18th February 09, 06:13 PM
I'm not saying it's a good reason to get high, I'm saying that you can't knock substance use for being unnatural. A coping mechanism? Why do you think every person who uses a drug is doing it because shit sucks? Has it never occurred to you that substances are also used to enhance things that are already awesome?

Feryk
18th February 09, 06:14 PM
Amyl Nitrate?

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
18th February 09, 06:19 PM
Why are you guys creating this false dichotomy where everything is either good or bad for you? Is it that alien to think that maybe, just maybe, these things don't particularly effect us in any good or bad way except by blitzing us for a few hours?

Spade: The Real Snake
18th February 09, 06:19 PM
That's a loaded question, but I'll give you an answer as to why I smoke pot in the form of a question.

Why do you fuck?
http://i39.tinypic.com/8vu493.jpg (http://i39.tinypic.com/8vu493.jpg)

Fearless Ukemi
18th February 09, 06:23 PM
If you're concerned with your health, sex is actually a riskier behavior than smoking a joint.

Just saying.

I smoke pot sometimes because it feels good, not because life sucks without it and I can't cope. For some of us, it really is that simple.

Harpy
18th February 09, 06:24 PM
Why are you guys creating this false dichotomy where everything is either good or bad for you? Is it that alien to think that maybe, just maybe, these things don't particularly effect us in any good or bad way except by blitzing us for a few hours?

Not my intention to create that dichotomy. Not even saying 'drugs are bad' or you shouldn't do them, just wondering why you'd want to get off the high if it makes aspects of life 'better'.


Originally posted by Zendetta: Well, then you are ignorant/in denial/missing out.
None of the above. I have a fulfilling life and get my own highs from some of my hobbies (not involving drugs/alcohol). Not saying this is the life for everyone but I love that clarity of feeling and purpose I know that I generate myself. I'm not dependent on anyone or anything for my happiness :)

Fearless Ukemi
18th February 09, 06:26 PM
And I wouldn't call getting high being fucked up. The buzz is not nearly as severe as alcohol if that is your only frame of reference.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
18th February 09, 06:27 PM
Not my intention to create that dichotomy. Not even saying 'drugs are bad' or you shouldn't do them, just wondering why you'd want to get off the high if it makes aspects of life 'better'.

Because It doesn't make everything better and because that's seriously fucking expensive.

Feryk
18th February 09, 06:28 PM
Why are you guys creating this false dichotomy where everything is either good or bad for you? Is it that alien to think that maybe, just maybe, these things don't particularly effect us in any good or bad way except by blitzing us for a few hours?

Amyl Nitrate is both very good and bad for you. I was referring to your post about drugs enhancing something that is already good.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
18th February 09, 06:28 PM
And I wouldn't call getting high being fucked up. The buzz is not nearly as severe as alcohol if that is your only frame of reference.

You just haven't smoked enough at once.

Harpy
18th February 09, 06:28 PM
If you're concerned with your health, sex is actually a riskier behavior than smoking a joint.

Just saying.

These risks can be nullified with a few simple actions (unless you're talking about something out of the 'norm'). Doesn't take any of the fun out of it either.




I smoke pot sometimes because it feels good, not because life sucks without it and I can't cope.
Cool, good to know (though I'll probably counter that you would think life sucks just a little without it now that you know the effect/feeling of doing it). What would replace pot with if you couldn't get it, you know when you feel you want to just chill out, enjoy yourself?

Fearless Ukemi
18th February 09, 06:29 PM
I was listening to the comedy channel on XM this morning on my drive to work and heard a really good line:

It's easy to distinguish a bad drug from a good drug. Bad drugs make you think something you would otherwise never do might actually be a good idea while under the influence of them.

That was a paraphrase, but I agree with that.

Fearless Ukemi
18th February 09, 06:30 PM
You just haven't smoked enough at once.


I should take that back now that I think about it. If I smoke from a bong, I do get pretty fucked up.

I can smoke a half ounce in a blunt and be fine, but smoke one bowl through a glass bong and I do get pretty disoriented.

Fearless Ukemi
18th February 09, 06:31 PM
Cool, good to know (though I'll probably counter that you would think life sucks just a little without it now that you know the effect/feeling of doing it). What would replace pot with if you couldn't get it, you know when you feel you want to just chill out, enjoy yourself?


Golf? Nah, probably sex.

Harpy
18th February 09, 06:33 PM
I should take that back now that I think about it. If I smoke from a bong, I do get pretty fucked up.

I can smoke a half ounce in a blunt and be fine, but smoke one bowl through a glass bong and I do get pretty disoriented.

So 'disoriented' and 'fucked up' are the new 'feel good'?

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
18th February 09, 06:35 PM
While you're disoriented and fucked up you're usually also on the couch with an extremely good body high. So yeah.

Harpy
18th February 09, 06:39 PM
I guess its the same as when I'm disoriented and fucked up after training and lying on the couch as the adrenaline high wanes and I start feeling the pain and force myself to enjoy it.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
18th February 09, 06:42 PM
no pain
just goooooood vibes man

Fearless Ukemi
18th February 09, 06:42 PM
I guess its the same as when I'm disoriented and fucked up after training and lying on the couch as the adrenaline high wanes and I start feeling the pain and force myself to enjoy it.


That's usually when I roll one up.

Harpy
18th February 09, 06:43 PM
^ Coping mechanism.

Be a man, feel the pain, even teach yourself to enjoy it and master your mind. Pot just seems to allow you to be lazy in your mental discipline.

Fearless Ukemi
18th February 09, 06:48 PM
Your analysis of me is incorrect. My coping mechanism is biofreeze if I really feel the need for one.

The pot is just because it feels good. But I will give you a point for the lazy in my mental discipline piece.

Harpy
18th February 09, 06:54 PM
But I will give you a point for the lazy in my mental discipline piece.

That's all I need.

Case closed you lazy weak pot head!!! *insert smiley to make FU feel better*

Fearless Ukemi
18th February 09, 07:04 PM
t(-_-t)

Your smiley

Robot Jesus
18th February 09, 09:50 PM
aside from the possibility of flashbacks I consider LSD to be the perfect drug. lots of fun, can help your mental state, dirt cheap, long lasting, and is the opposite of addictive. I can't say anything bad about the experience and yet I have no desire to ever do it again.

everyone should drop acid once in their lives.

Neildo
19th February 09, 03:36 AM
<AGRREEEEE

EuropIan
19th February 09, 03:46 AM
^ Coping mechanism.

Be a man, feel the pain, even teach yourself to enjoy it and master your mind. Pot just seems to allow you to be lazy in your mental discipline.
That is also a coping mechanism

Harpy
19th February 09, 04:15 PM
An internal coping mechanism.

EuropIan
19th February 09, 04:59 PM
so is denial

Harpy
19th February 09, 05:03 PM
Yeah? At least you've come to the stage of acknowledging your problem, we can now work on healing you. I'm so proud of you Ian!!

EuropIan
19th February 09, 05:15 PM
I accept and embrace the pot smoking me.

BTW have you ever tried raisins?

qyyEeEh6Tt8

Harpy
19th February 09, 05:18 PM
Do you exercise regularly Ian?

I can't click the link at work...explain it to me. I prefer currants to raisins.

Fearless Ukemi
19th February 09, 05:22 PM
I do.

And I smoke pot regularly also.

Harpy
19th February 09, 05:31 PM
And you could probably tap me, except for the fact you probably smell like weed and I wouldn't want to roll with you.

EuropIan
19th February 09, 05:36 PM
Do you exercise regularly Ian?

I can't click the link at work...explain it to me. I prefer currants to raisins.
Not enough to fit the criteria 'regularly'. Are you trying to push endorfins?

As for the link: it's Jack Black from Clone High explaining that he is, in fact, the pusher.
And in summary: he's the pusher.

Harpy
19th February 09, 05:38 PM
Ian - can we both back down? I prefer being your friend, here, let me push you off the swing...

EuropIan
19th February 09, 05:42 PM
I never thought the tone was hostile

HappyOldGuy
19th February 09, 05:42 PM
Don't let her hold the football for you Ian. It's not gonna end any differently than the last 100 times.

Spade: The Real Snake
19th February 09, 05:43 PM
I never thought the tone was hostile

that's because you are too baked.

Harpy
19th February 09, 05:44 PM
I never thought the tone was hostile

Weed takes away your ability to gauge danger.




But seriously, no hostility on this side either...it has been an illuminating, thought provoking discussion :)

Robot Jesus
19th February 09, 05:50 PM
I guess its the same as when I'm disoriented and fucked up after training and lying on the couch as the adrenaline high wanes and I start feeling the pain and force myself to enjoy it.
actualy this is one of the best times to get high.

the THC mixes very well with endorphins. refilling the nutritional reserves is very easy when you have the munchies.

also lying on the couch can be much more enjoyable when your high.

EuropIan
19th February 09, 05:52 PM
Lily, I am fine with not being baked right now.

Spade: The Real Snake
19th February 09, 05:53 PM
Lily, I am fine with not being baked right now.

but is your dealer OK with it?

Fearless Ukemi
19th February 09, 05:56 PM
And you could probably tap me, except for the fact you probably smell like weed and I wouldn't want to roll with you.


I smoke after I train, remember?

And, I don't usually submit people that don't challenge me in any way. I just ride heavy on them until they can muster an escape or until it's time to stop.

EuropIan
19th February 09, 05:57 PM
but is your dealer OK with it?
I am sure they'll manage somehow.

http://www.onanalphabet.com/files/2006/07/Copenhagen-Christiana-029.jpg

Harpy
19th February 09, 06:01 PM
Fearless and Ian - you guys are actually very chilled and civil, I think pot has a new advocate in me.

EuropIan
19th February 09, 06:02 PM
btw I'm not telling you OMG YO SHULD DO POT CUZ ITS AWSUM.

Because that would be dumb and incongruent with your values.

Spade: The Real Snake
19th February 09, 06:03 PM
Fearless and Ian - you guys are actually very chilled and civil, I think pot has a new advocate in me.
^^ stoner

EuropIan
19th February 09, 06:04 PM
I am saying aaardvarks should until his brain is lard.

Harpy
19th February 09, 06:05 PM
Ian - will you watch over me during my first 'trip'?

Harpy
19th February 09, 06:06 PM
btw I'm not telling you OMG YO SHULD DO POT CUZ ITS AWSUM.

Because that would be dumb and incongruent with your values.

I know, that's exactly why I think we've been able to have this exchange without animosity.

EuropIan
19th February 09, 06:08 PM
I think you said something about the 'inability to gauge danger' ;)


(yeah, sure. but only in person, so you are totally safe from weed. FOR NOW)

Harpy
19th February 09, 06:12 PM
Stop making me laugh pot head.

EuropIan
19th February 09, 06:14 PM
^_^

Spade: The Real Snake
19th February 09, 06:17 PM
Stop making me laugh pot head, I thought you fuckers always had snack cakes?? Where the goddamn pork rinds and Lucky Charms.

Aphid Jones
21st February 09, 09:15 PM
Ian - will you watch over me during my first 'trip'?
It's marijuana...

Fearless Ukemi
22nd February 09, 09:17 AM
She's been brainwashed.