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danno
12th January 09, 05:55 AM
The global economic crisis has handed the Islamic finance sector a "golden opportunity" to show it is a better alternative to capitalism, Malaysia says.

Although capitalism has been pre-eminent for centuries, "it is becoming obvious that there is now more proof of its weaknesses," Deputy Prime Minister Najib Razak said in a speech to an Islamic economic conference.

"We Muslims should see the current situation as a golden opportunity for us to prove the power, strength and effectiveness of the Islamic banking and finance system."

Islamic banking, a booming $US1 trillion global industry that prohibits speculation and high levels of debt, has been relatively unscathed by the credit crunch.

The rules of the sector - which incorporate principles of sharia or Islamic law - prohibit many of the risky activities that triggered the crisis that is felling economies around the world.

"An economic system that is not closely linked to real and productive activities is a threat to the entire system," said Mr Najib, who is also finance minister.

He said the Islamic approach could provide "concrete and realistic" measures to tackle the crisis and that Malaysia, Southeast Asia's leader in the field, was committed to developing the sector with better training and marketing.

Islamic law prohibits the payment and collection of interest, which is seen as a form of gambling, so highly complex instruments such as derivatives and other creative accounting practices are banned.

Transactions must be backed by real assets - not repackaged subprime, or high-risk, mortgages - and because risk is shared between the bank and the depositor there is an incentive for the institutions to ensure the deal is sound.

Islamic finance also shuns investments in gambling, alcohol and pornography in favour of ethical investments.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/01/12/2464332.htm

i'm not sure what to make of this. i'm certain that many people will see this as another attempt by muslims to take over the world just like we thought the commies were going to.

i don't have a deep understanding of economics and so on but it seems like an extremely conservative way to bank - which might be just what we need at the moment? or is it just a little unsettling... somehow?

f4n4n
12th January 09, 06:05 AM
Quick question, when they prohibit the payment and collection of interest, how does this bank work again?

Usually a Bank makes money by taking your money, paying you a little shit in interests and lending it to others requesting a much higher interest rate. They live on that so I wonder how this works...

And when they say "transactions must be backed by real assets" and it may sound cool and sound, this is general practice the only question is how you going to evaluate those assets, this is what a lot of banks trip over. Not even the shittiest bank will give you something without some sort of insurance that you will pay back. (Yeah in the US they take your possible future income as type of insurance for way to high credits but well as I said, how you value it)

EuropIan
12th January 09, 06:25 AM
They are making more money because they aren't losing any?

Shawarma
12th January 09, 06:40 AM
If Islamic banking is implemented, does this mean that the bankers who lose the life's savings of their clients and get nothing but a slap on the wrist will get publicly beheaded? If so, I'm all for it.

Cullion
12th January 09, 08:14 AM
In Islamic banking they're talking about the elimination of fractional reserves and soft money (at conferences between heads of state of Islamic countries they keep talking about reintroducing gold Dinars as an international Islamic currency).

It's not quite accurate to say that Islamic banks don't lend at interest, they do, in various forms. Generally speaking, the bank takes on more of the risk associated with the thing being purchased going down in value, and Islamic law forbids them from making certain extra charges when the person in debt is having trouble paying. Because they don't have fractional reserves, they can't suffer as badly during the downturns as money created out of nothing gets wiped out of existence.

It's still a 'capitalist' business run at a profit, but not as profitable as western banking because Islamic banks aren't allowed to lend money created from nowhere or fuck people so hard who are having trouble paying.

It's a more honest system of banking that treats banking as a simple utility for transfering, borrowing and saving money rather than the 'OMG masters of the universe who are allowed to print their own money and get bailouts when they fuck up' model we've been using in the West.

Domite
12th January 09, 01:20 PM
And when they say "transactions must be backed by real assets" and it may sound cool and sound, this is general practice...

Well, not on the banks part.

Cullion
12th January 09, 01:28 PM
"transactions must be backed by real assets"

Actually, that's not how the western banking system works any more at all.

Google 'fractional reserve banking'.

f4n4n
12th January 09, 02:08 PM
Well over here in Europe (you should know that) they have this thing called "Basel 2" which was enforced about 4/5 years ago and was supposed to assure exactly that. I remember that since this was a big thing in our economy and banking courses at UNI

Cullion
12th January 09, 02:11 PM
Basel 2 doesn't end fractional reserve banking, it's simply an international agreement on how far they're allowed to take it.

And, as you can see, it doesn't work. If you still have fractional reserves and fiat currency, the regulations and bailouts they put in place to try and stabilise things are just moving deck chairs on the titanic.

f4n4n
12th January 09, 02:24 PM
Don't get me started on the bailouts...please don't!

Cullion
12th January 09, 02:26 PM
It was just a heist. It's still happening. I think I was one of the first to rant drunkenly about it here.

SFGOON
12th January 09, 02:43 PM
One thing I can say about the Islamic world with absolute certainty is that their money managers are obscenely wealthy. There's a lot of wisdom in the ways they manage their economies, and though I don't advocate any theocratic rule, perhaps a review of the sharia as it relates to banking would be thought provoking for western legislatures - if only in the context of ethics.

elipson
12th January 09, 02:58 PM
Why the fuck does everyone think that flaws in a financial/banking system equate to fundamental flaws in Capitalism????

Man. I get so much left wing bullshit from non-economic people at school that I want to pull my hair out and start beating them with their anthropology text books.

I don't think its really honest to judge Islamic banking by the fact that its members have a lot of money. That money was created ONLY because they sit on huge amounts of oil and have a solid dictatorship which prevents distruption.

Cullion
12th January 09, 02:59 PM
Sharia is pretty close the views of Western classical civilisation about sound money and usury. It wouldn't surprise me at all to find a direct link between ancient Greek thought on money, lending and trade and the Sharia view of finance.

I wouldn't actually ban lending at interest, as I think that banning fractional reserves and restoring hard asset-backed money would keep the bubbles it engenders in check and make it impossible for such large swathes of the poorer members of our society from falling so deeply into debt.

Cullion
12th January 09, 03:00 PM
Why the fuck does everyone think that flaws in a financial/banking system equate to fundamental flaws in Capitalism????.

Because their teachers tend towards socialism or at least statism in their own political & economic views.

f4n4n
12th January 09, 03:21 PM
I think that the current problem is that there was a lousy credit policy in place all over the last 15 years. For instance in Germany people who couldn't pay of their debts were ~10k mid 90s today there are about 50k people and rising who have no way or means to pay back their debts.
Also one out of 4 (including children) has debts which are not for housing (credits to buy a house). that are about 20 Mio. people who are in debt.
Hell it starts with kids having cell phone contracts, they are not even 20 and usually have over 2k to pay back for contracts or products bought though they can't afford them and couldn't in the first place.

People getting loans based on future income, that might have worked in the 70s when you had a job for your life time. But those times are over. Also the loan ranges have increased beyond reasonable. Starting limits are 1,5k as a minimum WTF? Those kids don't even have finished school, not speaking of a job an they get that kind of a loan? That is just wrong!

Cullion
12th January 09, 03:23 PM
Yes. Fractional reserve banking and fiat unbacked money is what has allowed this to happen. There's no point allowing it to continue whilst fiddling with regulatory accounting ratios.

Truculent Sheep
12th January 09, 05:32 PM
http://www.muslimcanadiancongress.org/20080129.html

So-called Sharia Mortgages are a Deception
MCC asks CMHC to drop $100,000 study to introduce Islamic banking in Canada

January 29, 2008

TORONTO - The Muslim Canadian Congress (MCC) has asked the Canadian Mortgage and Housing Corporation (CMHC) to abandon its $100,000 study to introduce so-called Islamic Banking in Canada, saying there should be no room in Canada for Saudi inspired Islamist political doctrines dressed up as innocuous religious requirements.

In a letter to Karen Kinsley, Chief Executive Officer of the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, the president of the Muslim Canadian Congress Farzana Hassan said, "Islamic Banking is nothing more than an attempt by Islamists, with backing from Middle Eastern Financial Institutions and their Western partners, to scare Muslim Canadians into believing that they should pay more to the banks and demand less in return as an act of religiosity. "

"Sharia Banking is an obscene attempt to fleece an already marginalized Muslim community while promising them the exact opposite. On the one hand Imams are warning Muslims of hellfire if they deal with the existing banking systems, and on the other the same clerics are being paid by banks to herd Muslims towards a system that is based on lies and deception.

What we need is a better deal from the banks for all Canadians, rather than dividing us up into religious groups and pacing obstacles in the way of better integration of all Canadians. Our banking system has developed in Canada over the last 200 years, and there is no need to adapt it to the failed economies and medieval systems modeled on Saudi Arabia and Iran," added Ms. Hassan.

In the letter, Ms Hassan said it was unfortunate that some Canadian Banks are succumbing to the lure of easy money that comes from supposed interest-free banking where customers receive zero interest on their deposits while paying more to the banks. "While the banks and their paid Imams and sheiks will make handsome returns, Muslim Canadians will end up as losers, with promises of rewards in the afterlife," she wrote.

"Religion has no place in the banking or mortgage industry and banks should desist from employing imams or sheikhs who sanctify so called Islamic bank products and mortgages. We are not living in the middle ages to get our financial cues from clerics claiming guidance from the divine," she added.

Explaining the deceptive workings of interest-free Sharia banking, as practised by Saudi and other Islamic banks, Ms Hassan said: "Muslim bankers and their hired clerics claim they indulge in interest-free banking, but in reality they hide this interest. So-called Islamic banking institutions claim they operate on "zero interest." However, the fundamental characteristic of charging interest is never truly eliminated in Islamic banking, but rather is hidden.

The MCC president referred the CMHC president to Muhammad Saleem, a former president and CEO of Park Avenue Bank in New York, who has written a book, Islamic Banking — A $300 Billion Deception. Mr. Saleem, who was a senior banker with Bankers Trust where, among other responsibilities, he headed the Middle East division and served as adviser to a prominent Islamic bank based in Bahrain, dismisses the founding premise of Islamic banking, saying, "Islamic banks do not practise what they preach: they all charge interest, but disguised in Islamic garb. Thus they engage in deceptive and dishonest banking practises."

The MCC president also referred the CMHC CEO to another critic of Islamic banking, professor Timur Kuran, who taught Islamic Thought at the University of Southern California, and who has authored, Islam and Mam-mon: The Economic Predicaments of Islamism, Prof. Kuran writes that the effort to introduce sharia banking "has promoted the spread of anti-modern currents of thought all across the Islamic world. It has also fostered an environment conducive to Islamist militancy."

Two other academics who have studied the phenomenon have reached similar conclusions. New Zealand business professors, Beng Soon Chong and Ming-Hua Liu of Auck-land University, in an October, 2007 study on the growth of Islamic banking in Malaysia, wrote: "Our study, however, provides new evidence, which shows that, in practise, Islamic deposits are not interest-free. " They concluded that the rapid growth in Islamic banking was "largely driven by the Islamic resurgence worldwide."

In the letter the MCC president said, an additional and related byproduct of Islamic finance is the legitimization and financial support by Western institutions for the type of radical Islamic scholarship and indoctrination. The need to certify shari’a-compliance of their Islamic products by "qualified shari’a scholars" has created demand for the services of experts that more often than not are the indoctrinated products of radical Wahhabi/Salafi shari’a faculties in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere, who generally hold views fundamentally inimical to the most ba-sic values of Western civilization.

Even a cursory look at the names, affiliations and views of popular shari’a scholars, such as Sheikh Yusuf Qaradawi, Sheikh Muhammad Taqi Usmani, Sheikh Mohamed Ali Elgari, Faysal Mawlawi, Sheikh Nizam Yaquby, Suleyman al-Maniya and others , many of whom sit on the shari’a advisory boards of dozens of Islamic banks and get paid princely sums from each, would make it clear that most are hard line Islamists and, in at least some cases, open supporters of terrorism. She informed the CMHC CEO that Mr. Qaradawi, a prominent Muslim Brotherhood ideologue, for instance, is chairman of the shari’a boards of the two Qatari Islamic banks owned by the ruling families among many others.

In another example, Muhammad Taqi Usmani, a radical Deobandi cleric and a former shari’a court member from Pakistan, who sits on dozens of shari’a boards in the West, is a key executive in the Karachi Deobandi ma-drassa Darul Uloom, which has trained and continues to train thousands of Taliban and jihadist cadres. He was also instrumental in the Pakistani government decision to declare the Ahmadi Muslims apostates and thus com-plicit in the murder and suffering of countless innocent Muslims. He is further on record preaching that Muslims living in the West "must live in peace until strong enough to wage Jihad’ against their fellow-citizens in order "to establish the supremacy of Islam."

The same is true about many of the trustees of various Islamic banking insti-tutions. The Dow Jones Islamic Fund (IMANX), for example, is owned by the North American Islamic Trust (NAIT) - a Saudi-controlled non-profit institution that holds title to hundreds of American mosques – which was recently listed by the US Dept of Justice as an unindicted co-conspirator in a terrorism financing trial in Dal-las, Texas.

"We urge the CMHC to not proceed any further with their ill advised initiative to promote Islamic banking in Canada. A crown corporation should not be a party to any venture that strengthens the jihadi movement and leads to the segregation of Muslims from the mainstream," Ms. Hassan added.

A copy of the letter was sent to Jim Flaherty, Minister of Finance and Monte Solberg, Minister of Human Resources and Social Development who is responsible for the CMHC.

danno
12th January 09, 07:08 PM
Because their teachers tend towards socialism or at least statism in their own political & economic views.

possibly, but i also think that studying a certain subject to the exclusion of all others can really make you see the world from that perspective, which could lead to stronger left/right wing views.

even studying a martial art or foreign language can make you sympathise with the country it originates from.

danno
12th January 09, 07:12 PM
wouldn't it be a good idea for a western bank to at least make a new account type available based on a similar idea?

Virus
12th January 09, 08:28 PM
Do Islamic banks accept deposits from gheys and jews?

danno
12th January 09, 08:58 PM
do you get extra virgins in the afterlife if you pay off your loans quickly?

f4n4n
12th January 09, 09:01 PM
Yes but only gay and suicidebomber virgins.

WarPhalange
13th January 09, 01:53 AM
Do Islamic banks accept deposits from gheys and jews?

Can you take out a loan if you want to start a pork processing plant?

Aphid Jones
13th January 09, 02:01 AM
Can you take out a loan if you want to start a pork processing plant?As long as you don't tell them what you'll be using the pork for.

Say: "I'll be slipping it into Israel's matza ball shipments."

Arhetton
13th January 09, 03:23 AM
I agree with cullions posts.

This is just talking about changing the banking sector, its not a modification of capitalism at all.

DboWRb0if6E

Cullion
13th January 09, 06:36 AM
wouldn't it be a good idea for a western bank to at least make a new account type available based on a similar idea?

They do. There are banks in London offering 'islamic' services.

Cullion
13th January 09, 06:40 AM
Can you take out a loan if you want to start a pork processing plant?

Maybe a western bank offering 'islamic' accounts would let you do that, but I'm pretty sure a real Islamic bank would be unwilling to make any loans or invest in something that was forbidden by Islam.

danno
13th January 09, 07:51 AM
They do. There are banks in London offering 'islamic' services.

are they western banks? if no, can the kuffar join up?

Cullion
13th January 09, 08:09 AM
are they western banks? if no, can the kuffar join up?

There are western banks like Barclays offering Islamic banking services, and as far as I'm aware true Islamic banks are happy to do business with non-muslims, they just won't give money for unislamic business ventures like stuff involving booze or gambling.

f4n4n
13th January 09, 09:12 AM
And there goes my plan of asken them for a loan in order to open up a bordello. It is legal in Germany (Sometimes you have to love Germany, someday they are going to allow drugs as long as they can tax them)

Cullion
13th January 09, 09:18 AM
What do you need a loan for? Just don't pay the girls until they've made enough to pay for the lease and pimp-slap any who complain too much.

f4n4n
13th January 09, 09:42 AM
Well the thing is, since prostitution is legal here, there are people checking in on them and they have to have health checks and all that stuff.

Pimpin ain't easy.

Cullion
13th January 09, 09:47 AM
Surely there's a grey market for untaxed prostitution where you still get to smack them around a little?

f4n4n
13th January 09, 10:11 AM
Sure, I could always relocate a little more east, Czech Republic or Poland, but competition over there is tough, overhead costs are high (my line of business wouldn't be legal so Police tries to get its share and you have no real "base" so you have to hire employees that take care of "maintenance" and all that) and you have smaller margins and have to go "mass instead of class".

Cullion
13th January 09, 10:12 AM
Quanitity has a quality all of it's own.

f4n4n
13th January 09, 10:23 AM
Why don't we start some big pimping in England, I've heard your guys are in for some kinky stuff and that is where the big money is. We could have it all, the pony ranch, the school, the doctor, the dungeon, the farm for the guys from Scotland... options would be countless and money would come in quick.

If you need we could draw up a business plan and all

Cullion
13th January 09, 10:33 AM
prostitution is sorta legal in England

it's how it's advertised that decides whether it's legal or not.

street-walking, always illegal
massage parlours are tolerated depending on the local city government

housewives making some extra money from their own home? practically a tradition

f4n4n
13th January 09, 10:36 AM
You are a country guy or more into working your stressed neck?

Shawarma
13th January 09, 10:51 AM
Is being a pimp legal in the UK?

Cullion
13th January 09, 11:37 AM
It depends what you mean by 'pimp'. There is a crime called 'living on immoral earnings' which was crafted to allow prosecution of pimps.

In practice, somebody who owns a massage parlour or rents hotel rooms by the hour isn't necessarily going to get prosecuted.

I think this law gets thrown at people who are prosecuted for other crimes, like beating up or dealing drugs to the girls who work for them.

The unofficial status quo in England is 'prostitution is legal as long as it's off the street, is kept mostly out of site and the girls aren't getting beaten up'.

The definition of 'out of site' varies from city to city. Some cities have massage parlours and 'gentlemen's clubs' away from residential areas which use signs making it pretty obvious what they are.

In some cities private houses and apartments that advertise on the internet or in the back pages of local newspapers are all that is allowed.

TM
13th January 09, 01:02 PM
Pimps are worthless parasites that should be beaten on a regular basis.

EuropIan
13th January 09, 01:03 PM
The difference between a pimp and a business man is wages.

Shawarma
13th January 09, 01:39 PM
Odd, the ladies of the night walk the party street where I live unabashed without anybody seemingly hassling them. Maybe they have a license to whore or something.

Cullion
13th January 09, 01:41 PM
They might just be ordinary british chicks dressed up for a night out.

Or you might live in such an incredibly shitty part of some city that the streetwalking whores just treat the occasional arrests as the cost of doing business.

I mean, ecstasy's illegal, but it's still not exactly hard to get hold of.

Shawarma
13th January 09, 01:45 PM
Nah, party street is in a reasonably nice part of town. Another possibility is that the coppers have enough work keeping the chavs and pikeys under control on saturday night that they're not that interested arresting the whores.

Cullion
13th January 09, 01:52 PM
It varies from police force to police force. They might well only get involved if they here that theres some violence or serious drug dealing connected to the street walkers.

British police don't really do much in the way of preventative patrolling except for traffic infractions on major roads any more. They tend to just turn up when called out to an incident.

Kein Haar
13th January 09, 01:55 PM
I'm not sure if you're implying something about your preference of how patrolling is undertaken, but frankly...I don't want it. As a citizen I'd prefer a reactionary type of philosophy.

Just chill until you're actually needed, pigs.

Cullion
13th January 09, 01:57 PM
I can still remember when they walked a beat, didn't carry any weapons except a 6 inch dildo made of wood, didn't wear body armour and didn't interfere unless it was obvious that it was necessary. Crime was lower, but people trusted the police more.

Shawarma
13th January 09, 01:59 PM
Funny, my mum who lived in Britain as a little girl says the exact same thing today. She left out the part about the dildo, though.

Kein Haar
13th January 09, 02:02 PM
Eh.

Cullion
13th January 09, 02:02 PM
Funny, my mum who lived in Britain as a little girl says the exact same thing today. She left out the part about the dildo, though.

As you say, she was only young. It probably wasn't obvious to her that this:-

http://www.partydomain.co.uk/d-commerce/media/main/2/22580.jpg

Had only one real use.

Kein Haar
13th January 09, 02:04 PM
The beginning of my dad's era (started in 1968), at least in the U.S., was full-blown, explicit, grab-ur-ankles, shake-downs.

Literally, opening fire hydrants on cold nights to get the tow company kick-backs.

That's relegated to NOLA, Chicago, and other assorted shit-holes now-a-days. Actually, something like would be rather petty relative to the criminal shit their modern drug units get involved in.

Cullion
13th January 09, 02:08 PM
The golden era of British policing

rcfprTzcQLM

Kein Haar
13th January 09, 02:10 PM
Indubitoubly.

Cullion
13th January 09, 02:14 PM
The beginning of my dad's era (started in 1968), at least in the U.S., was full-blown, explicit, grab-ur-ankles, shake-downs.

Literally, opening fire hydrants on cold nights to get the tow company kick-backs.

That's relegated to NOLA, Chicago, and other assorted shit-holes now-a-days. Actually, something like would be rather petty relative to the criminal shit their modern drug units get involved in.

British police officers really, really used to be like this:-

Du5yQ9ZZGI4

AAAhmed46
15th January 09, 08:50 PM
http://www.muslimcanadiancongress.org/20080129.html

So-called Sharia Mortgages are a Deception
MCC asks CMHC to drop $100,000 study to introduce Islamic banking in Canada

January 29, 2008

TORONTO - The Muslim Canadian Congress (MCC) has asked the Canadian Mortgage and Housing Corporation (CMHC) to abandon its $100,000 study to introduce so-called Islamic Banking in Canada, saying there should be no room in Canada for Saudi inspired Islamist political doctrines dressed up as innocuous religious requirements.

In a letter to Karen Kinsley, Chief Executive Officer of the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, the president of the Muslim Canadian Congress Farzana Hassan said, "Islamic Banking is nothing more than an attempt by Islamists, with backing from Middle Eastern Financial Institutions and their Western partners, to scare Muslim Canadians into believing that they should pay more to the banks and demand less in return as an act of religiosity. "

"Sharia Banking is an obscene attempt to fleece an already marginalized Muslim community while promising them the exact opposite. On the one hand Imams are warning Muslims of hellfire if they deal with the existing banking systems, and on the other the same clerics are being paid by banks to herd Muslims towards a system that is based on lies and deception.

What we need is a better deal from the banks for all Canadians, rather than dividing us up into religious groups and pacing obstacles in the way of better integration of all Canadians. Our banking system has developed in Canada over the last 200 years, and there is no need to adapt it to the failed economies and medieval systems modeled on Saudi Arabia and Iran," added Ms. Hassan.

In the letter, Ms Hassan said it was unfortunate that some Canadian Banks are succumbing to the lure of easy money that comes from supposed interest-free banking where customers receive zero interest on their deposits while paying more to the banks. "While the banks and their paid Imams and sheiks will make handsome returns, Muslim Canadians will end up as losers, with promises of rewards in the afterlife," she wrote.

"Religion has no place in the banking or mortgage industry and banks should desist from employing imams or sheikhs who sanctify so called Islamic bank products and mortgages. We are not living in the middle ages to get our financial cues from clerics claiming guidance from the divine," she added.

Explaining the deceptive workings of interest-free Sharia banking, as practised by Saudi and other Islamic banks, Ms Hassan said: "Muslim bankers and their hired clerics claim they indulge in interest-free banking, but in reality they hide this interest. So-called Islamic banking institutions claim they operate on "zero interest." However, the fundamental characteristic of charging interest is never truly eliminated in Islamic banking, but rather is hidden.

The MCC president referred the CMHC president to Muhammad Saleem, a former president and CEO of Park Avenue Bank in New York, who has written a book, Islamic Banking — A $300 Billion Deception. Mr. Saleem, who was a senior banker with Bankers Trust where, among other responsibilities, he headed the Middle East division and served as adviser to a prominent Islamic bank based in Bahrain, dismisses the founding premise of Islamic banking, saying, "Islamic banks do not practise what they preach: they all charge interest, but disguised in Islamic garb. Thus they engage in deceptive and dishonest banking practises."

The MCC president also referred the CMHC CEO to another critic of Islamic banking, professor Timur Kuran, who taught Islamic Thought at the University of Southern California, and who has authored, Islam and Mam-mon: The Economic Predicaments of Islamism, Prof. Kuran writes that the effort to introduce sharia banking "has promoted the spread of anti-modern currents of thought all across the Islamic world. It has also fostered an environment conducive to Islamist militancy."

Two other academics who have studied the phenomenon have reached similar conclusions. New Zealand business professors, Beng Soon Chong and Ming-Hua Liu of Auck-land University, in an October, 2007 study on the growth of Islamic banking in Malaysia, wrote: "Our study, however, provides new evidence, which shows that, in practise, Islamic deposits are not interest-free. " They concluded that the rapid growth in Islamic banking was "largely driven by the Islamic resurgence worldwide."

In the letter the MCC president said, an additional and related byproduct of Islamic finance is the legitimization and financial support by Western institutions for the type of radical Islamic scholarship and indoctrination. The need to certify shari’a-compliance of their Islamic products by "qualified shari’a scholars" has created demand for the services of experts that more often than not are the indoctrinated products of radical Wahhabi/Salafi shari’a faculties in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere, who generally hold views fundamentally inimical to the most ba-sic values of Western civilization.

Even a cursory look at the names, affiliations and views of popular shari’a scholars, such as Sheikh Yusuf Qaradawi, Sheikh Muhammad Taqi Usmani, Sheikh Mohamed Ali Elgari, Faysal Mawlawi, Sheikh Nizam Yaquby, Suleyman al-Maniya and others , many of whom sit on the shari’a advisory boards of dozens of Islamic banks and get paid princely sums from each, would make it clear that most are hard line Islamists and, in at least some cases, open supporters of terrorism. She informed the CMHC CEO that Mr. Qaradawi, a prominent Muslim Brotherhood ideologue, for instance, is chairman of the shari’a boards of the two Qatari Islamic banks owned by the ruling families among many others.

In another example, Muhammad Taqi Usmani, a radical Deobandi cleric and a former shari’a court member from Pakistan, who sits on dozens of shari’a boards in the West, is a key executive in the Karachi Deobandi ma-drassa Darul Uloom, which has trained and continues to train thousands of Taliban and jihadist cadres. He was also instrumental in the Pakistani government decision to declare the Ahmadi Muslims apostates and thus com-plicit in the murder and suffering of countless innocent Muslims. He is further on record preaching that Muslims living in the West "must live in peace until strong enough to wage Jihad’ against their fellow-citizens in order "to establish the supremacy of Islam."

The same is true about many of the trustees of various Islamic banking insti-tutions. The Dow Jones Islamic Fund (IMANX), for example, is owned by the North American Islamic Trust (NAIT) - a Saudi-controlled non-profit institution that holds title to hundreds of American mosques – which was recently listed by the US Dept of Justice as an unindicted co-conspirator in a terrorism financing trial in Dal-las, Texas.

"We urge the CMHC to not proceed any further with their ill advised initiative to promote Islamic banking in Canada. A crown corporation should not be a party to any venture that strengthens the jihadi movement and leads to the segregation of Muslims from the mainstream," Ms. Hassan added.

A copy of the letter was sent to Jim Flaherty, Minister of Finance and Monte Solberg, Minister of Human Resources and Social Development who is responsible for the CMHC.


Tariq Fatah is a socialist, and often mixes the term 'fundamentalist muslim' and 'conservative' muslim up often.

He also is often a guest on canadian christian evangelical tv stations and shows as well as his members.

He's strange, he professes and stands for left-wing ideals while still at the same time has very conservative backers.