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View Full Version : Happy New Year! Seattle police kill a "nazi" to celebrate



Steve
2nd January 09, 02:54 AM
Just found this story now. Hits pretty close to home as I'm quite familiar with the area and Red Mill burgers is a pretty popular joint around these parts...

Police shoot, kill UW student in Nazi-era garb
Friends dispute report that he pointed weapon at officers


The University of Washington student shot to death by police in the first hours of 2009 after pointing a World War II-vintage rifle at officers had an abiding fascination with the past, but no love of Nazism.

The 22-year-old student of German and Scandinavian history was wearing a Nazi-era uniform when two Seattle police officers shot him early Thursday morning near the door of his University District apartment.

According to police, officers were called to the 5200 block of 17th Avenue Northeast to investigate a report of two or three men firing weapons into the air. Officers say they fired on the man after he brandished what was described by witnesses as a bolt-action rifle.

The Maple Valley-reared man, whom the Seattle P-I is not identifying because his family had not been notified of his death, died late Thursday morning at Harborview Medical Center.

On hearing of his death, the young man's co-workers from Seattle's Red Mill Burgers gathered Thursday night at the chain's Phinney Ridge location to share their memories of him.

Hattie Taylor, a 20-year-old UW student at whose sorority house the deceased man worked, described him as a kind, if likably odd, young man.

"He wasn't a Nazi," Taylor said. "He was just fascinated with the past. ... He liked to dress up and have fun."

Taylor and others said he often showed up to work at Red Mill wearing antique clothing -- he recently went to work in a Union Civil War uniform -- and collected historical memorabilia. During his first day of work at Taylor's sorority, she said, he arrived wearing a military waistcoat decorated with military ribbons hoping to impress the girls there.

The morning of the shooting, the man had been firing blanks to celebrate the new year, Taylor said. It was a contention held by many of the 18 Red Mill employees gathered at the restaurant, who'd been told so by another co-worker who was at the deceased man's apartment when he was killed.

They also disputed police claims that the man pointed the gun at officers and criticized officers for firing on the man.

Officer Jeff Kappel, a Seattle police spokesman, said officers fired after the man aimed a military rifle with a long bayonet at them and refused to put it down.

Police were called to the neighborhood just after 1:30 a.m. after alarmed residents reported five men with guns, dressed in either military uniforms or dark clothing, firing shots in the north end of the alley behind the home where the man was shot.

Arriving at the block just north of the UW campus, police were able to trace the activity to a basement apartment of the three-story rooming house.

As officers staged at the entrance, Kappel said, the man appeared in a German military uniform carrying a vintage military-style rifle pointed in the officers' general direction.

Police "identified themselves as Seattle police very loudly and ordered him to drop the weapon several times," Kappel said. "The suspect failed to comply."

When the suspect pointed the rifle at police, two officers "fired (several times) in defense of themselves and the other innocent residents in the immediate area," Kappel said.

A pool of blood, over which someone had placed a piece of cardboard to avoid stepping in it, was still was visible Thursday afternoon in the narrow landing to his basement apartment. Above the blood, a concrete wall showed where a bullet had cratered it. Few people socialized in the building, which was generally quiet and more so now with some people on Christmas break.

The slain man was unassuming, said Allison Kogler and Galen Wheless, two residents.

Wheless, who previously served in the U.S. military, was asleep when the incident began to unfold.

"I remember hearing a noise and thinking, 'That's three gunshots -- three in a row,' " then remembering it was New Year's and figuring they were fireworks, he said.

Like several of her co-workers, who asked not to be identified, Taylor said she questions why officers shot the man. Referring to secondhand reports from others in the house, Taylor said she believes officers didn't give the man time to lower his weapon.

"Why did they have to fire so many times?" Taylor asked.

Red Mill General Manager Michael Shephart remembered his employee of 2 1/2 years as a fun-loving man who wouldn't "hurt a fly."

Earlier this year, the UW Daily ran a photo of the 22-year-old wearing a military-style shirt and describing him as "a figure straight out of a photo taken from World War II."

"I like it when people put more thought into what they wear when they're trying to make an impression (and) present the best side of themselves," the young man told the student newspaper.

The young man's MySpace page says he majored in Scandinavian studies and minored in German culture and literature at the UW. He belonged to German World War II re-enactment group, said his lucky charm was "Mister Bayonet" and that his goal to achieve this year was "don't die."

His photo on the social networking site is something out of the 19th century: a black and white of him in a high collar and handlebar moustache. He also said he entered "the 21st century when absolutely necessary."

Police said they found German World War II memorabilia in his apartment.

Weeks ago, Shephart said, the young man won the $50 prize at the restaurant's Christmas party by creating a jingle for Red Mill on the spot -- with his accordion. He also was known to use the secondhand instrument to cover Britney Spears singles at parties.

The loss, Shephart said, has hit the Red Mill crews hard.

"We're a huge family," Shephart said. "We don't know what to do. We're all in shock. ... He was a good kid."

The two police officers who fired their guns have been placed on paid administrative leave while the shooting is investigated, which is routine when police fire their guns and use deadly force.

----------------------------------------

Link. (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/394443_nazi02.html)

Bummer for the dude, sounds like he was an interesting fella. At least we know he would've made fast friends with NunOnBreak...

nihilist
2nd January 09, 03:22 AM
I hate U District Nazis.

nihilist
2nd January 09, 03:24 AM
And by that I mean cops.

Aphid Jones
2nd January 09, 03:31 AM
his goal to achieve this year was "don't die."



Ouch.

SFGOON
2nd January 09, 03:41 AM
This kind of shit sucks. Circumstances arise when, in the heat of the moment, it becomes necessary to ventilate a weirdo in order to perpetuate public safety.

nihilist
2nd January 09, 03:43 AM
Goon, You're going to have to learn a few things before you become an officer in the U district.

Yu3mqsuo3hw

SFGOON
2nd January 09, 03:46 AM
Almost Live sucked SOOOOOO bad.

I almost shot a few folks myself when I lived there. As soon as they figured out what was going on, they came down with a sudden case of common sense.

Steve
2nd January 09, 03:49 AM
GTFO, Almost Live was awesome.

SFGOON
2nd January 09, 04:09 AM
The first three episodes were good. Then they proceeded to tell slight variations of the same eight jokes and sketches for the next umpteen years.

Steve
2nd January 09, 04:23 AM
Your problem is that you aren't easily amused. That must suck.

WarPhalange
2nd January 09, 04:28 AM
At first I thought "Duh, you go out in a Nazi uniform with a gun and you'll get shot. What' so hard to understand about that?"

But then it said it was in a basement? Then I can believe he was just dicking around with friends. I don't know, maybe the guy was drunk and waiving the gun around? Maybe the cops were drunk? Maybe the cops were Jews? Maybe one of his friends farted and the cops freaked out?

I mean, pointing a gun at a cop who is telling you to put it down is one of the dumbest things you can do. Either he was really drunk and stupid or the cops overreacted. I don't know which one is more plausible...

nihilist
2nd January 09, 04:42 AM
They outlawed smoking in all public buildings in Oregon last night at midnight.

People on craigslist were talking about citizen's arrests and smokers were talking about how tough they were compared to non-smokers. anyway, some guy now is trying to sell "butt hutts" sort of a little nic addict gazebo. I couldn't help but do my own little parody (http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/rnr/977095808.html)

Steve
2nd January 09, 04:48 AM
That has nothing to do with nazis. I'm ashamed of you, Reese.

nihilist
2nd January 09, 04:49 AM
It has everything to do with anti-smoking new year nazis and potential violence.

Steve
2nd January 09, 04:53 AM
But that is only implied. For shame.

nihilist
2nd January 09, 04:54 AM
I'll post again when there is a body count, thereby redeeming myself.

Steve
2nd January 09, 04:57 AM
We'll see. Deaths from cancer don't count.

nihilist
2nd January 09, 04:58 AM
Ten bucks says at least one of them smoked (http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2009/01/men_killed_in_gresham_man_in_r.html)

Sun Wukong
2nd January 09, 06:26 AM
Just another fucking reason why guns aren't fucking toys. Seriously, shooting it off inside city limits from your aprartment? What the fuck were the cops supposed to think?

Here's a scenario, you are firing a gun at your house, for fun, in town. The cops show up.

You:

A: know you did nothing wrong, to your understanding, so you keep your hands on it and try to discuss how you did nothing wrong with the police.

B: You immediatley put the rifle down to assure the cops you are not a threat, though they will likely still cuff you and haul you off to jail anyway.f


This seems kind of simple to me. Thing one, even with blanks, that kid had no business wielding a firearm.

The cops show up and see a guy holding a gun. That right there, is enough to get you snuffed already. Righteous shoot or not, it's a stupid thing to do.

I'm betting the kid didn't have the rifle pointed up and away from the police. Probably didn't intentionally point the weapon at them, but intentional or not, NEVER POINT A WEAPON IN A COPS DIRECTION.

Guns are NOT toys. You should not be cavalier with a firearm, ever, unless you just happen to be ready to kill or be killed.

partyboy
2nd January 09, 08:01 AM
so... which misspelling joke should I go for? how all cellebrities are invertebrates? or how they all belong in cells?

whatever, I need to go make a cal on my cel phone

Sun Wukong
2nd January 09, 04:05 PM
What happened to the spell checker yo?

Equipoise
2nd January 09, 08:58 PM
PL- You were talking about possible scenarios, regarding the officers over reacting. You don't actually have to point a gun at us for us to shoot you. If an individual is holding a weapon or even insinuates he has a gun by not removing his hands from his pockets after being told to do so, this is grounds for deadly force. I'm not sure if I would have given any second or third warnings to this individual. This stuff happens like lightning and the chances of him getting a shot off are highly likely, therefore I would have shot him had he not placed down the rifle after an initial announcement. Even this is iffy as an announcement to an individual who has been reported to have been shooting the rifle already puts my life and other officers in danger.

Also, an OIS/CI sucks man. You get placed on Admin duty forever, get grilled by IA, get grilled by the state's investigatory board, etc. It's not a John Woo movie where you blast fifty guys in a bar and then go back to work the next day. As such, you tend to avoid these situations at all costs using lethal force as a last resort.

WarPhalange
3rd January 09, 12:18 AM
Sure, but I'm wondering if the Nazi suit was any sort of factor in the whole thing. It tugs at your emotions a lot more than a guy in a Pink Floyd t-shirt. Normal people would want to shoot the guy for wearing it. So what about a cop who sees that this guy has a gun?

SFGOON
3rd January 09, 02:00 AM
I doubt it factored at all. If I'm drawing down on someone, I only notice what they're wearing if they're naked, (which confirms they're crazy.)

During this sort of life or death type shit, your patterns of cognition change very drastically. Everything about the way your mind works, from the time it takes to make a decision to the threshold for taking action, speeds up. You become much less able to ascertain information about your environment, and much more attuned to the movement and state of mind of your adversary.

I would say with all candor that during a firefight a man's intelligence is about on par with that of a domestic dog. That higher reasoning is simply shut off to make room for survival processes. Those who force themselves to engage the slower, yet more elaborate method of reasoning that you experience in your day to day business will likely get themselves killed.

Quikfeet509
3rd January 09, 02:45 AM
Proves once again that the U-district sucks. Not enough parking, too many people asking for change to feed their ugly fucking dog, and vintage-2nd-time-around stores that cost more than going to Structure (or express or whatever the fuck they changed the name to).


Good bubble tea though.

Kein Haar
3rd January 09, 07:51 AM
I woulda shot him in the legs.

Cullion
3rd January 09, 09:35 AM
I doubt it factored at all. If I'm drawing down on someone, I only notice what they're wearing if they're naked, (which confirms they're crazy.)

During this sort of life or death type shit, your patterns of cognition change very drastically. Everything about the way your mind works, from the time it takes to make a decision to the threshold for taking action, speeds up. You become much less able to ascertain information about your environment, and much more attuned to the movement and state of mind of your adversary.

I would say with all candor that during a firefight a man's intelligence is about on par with that of a domestic dog. That higher reasoning is simply shut off to make room for survival processes. Those who force themselves to engage the slower, yet more elaborate method of reasoning that you experience in your day to day business will likely get themselves killed.

I want everybody to remember that Goon isn't a law enforcement officer yet and when he's in his psyched out bestial state 'drawing down' on naked people it's when they're trying to flee after seeing him come through the motel room door with an erection.

Steve
3rd January 09, 09:45 AM
I woulda shot him in the legs.

You meant "bite him," right?

SFGOON
3rd January 09, 10:28 AM
I want everybody to remember that Goon isn't a law enforcement officer yet and when he's in his psyched out bestial state 'drawing down' on naked people it's when they're trying to flee after seeing him come through the motel room door with an erection.

Hey, they're the ones who paid me to do it. Once the thrill of crackamphetamine wears off, you gotta pay the GOON to get your riled up. I promise you the erection is exponentially more frightening than the firearm.

Both times I've pointed a gun at someone out side military service (which I don't count because mine was one of about a dozen rifles I was aware of and the diffusion of responsibility made the experience completely different,) it was in the neighborhood where this occurred.

It was never the street kids or the old crazies either. Both times were groups of drunken rich frat boys.

Quikfeet509
3rd January 09, 12:27 PM
Both times I've pointed a gun at someone out side military service...it was in the neighborhood where this occurred.

It was never the street kids or the old crazies either. Both times were groups of drunken rich frat boys.


Wait, that was you?

I'm upper middle class.



Dick.

Kein Haar
4th January 09, 07:33 AM
You meant "bite him," right?

I woulda shot him in the legs with my polish semi-auto revolver.

Tanhalen21
4th January 09, 09:25 AM
Thing one, even with blanks, that kid had no business wielding a firearm.


It's my second amendment right to wave a gun around like a fucking idiot

WarPhalange
4th January 09, 07:28 PM
No, it's your right to bear arms, not flail arms. Okay, so that wasn't a great play on words, but you get my point. If he had a permit for that weapon he could have carried it in a case or something and a cop couldn't do shit to him. In this case the cops thought he was a threat to others, especially since he was apparently shooting it indoors. They didn't know they were blanks of course.

Kein Haar
4th January 09, 08:14 PM
Very insightful!

Equipoise
4th January 09, 08:17 PM
It's my second amendment right to wave a gun around like a fucking idiot

You have the right to purchase and practice with your weaponry in specific places designated by the government. This does not mean going armed to the terror of the public. When you jeopardize the safety and/or the right to quiet enjoyment/happiness of others is when you lose that right.

On another note, I took a goat into custody today.

HappyOldGuy
4th January 09, 08:21 PM
On another note, I took a goat into custody today.

I predict death by curry spice rub.

Equipoise
4th January 09, 08:30 PM
Na. He resisted arrest at first, but after he was restrained, he became cooperative and was taken to a local preserve where he could run free with other animals rather than get sacrificed for a Haitian voodoo ritual (dead serious on that...Miami's a strange place)

My little goat buddy had the beginning of a knife slice under his throat where they would have bled him out. I'm guessing he escaped by biting the owner. I had to lasso him with a resident's rope as the goat was pissed/wild. I gave him some of my lunch and a bit of water. He was secured in the back seat and went to sleep under the AC. We took him to the preserve where they stitched up the cut on his neck and put him with a mama goat.

WarPhalange
4th January 09, 08:40 PM
Na. He resisted arrest at first, but after he was restrained, he became cooperative and was taken to a local preserve where he could run free with other animals rather than get sacrificed for a Haitian voodoo ritual (dead serious on that...Miami's a strange place)

I read this post before I read your previous post where you say it's a goat. I thought you were talking about some guy. The preserve part confused me a bit, but I just thought you meant prison. And the Haitian voodoo ritual made me raise an eyebrow, but I figured I'd take your word on Miami being strange...

Equipoise
4th January 09, 08:48 PM
They take the blood of a young goat and do spells with it or some such nonsense. You'll run into people with animal blood on the walls, strung up dead chickens, animal heads in jars, etc. You'll also see a fair amount of psycho voodoo practitioners with swords and machetes walking around in public.

WarPhalange
4th January 09, 09:05 PM
They take the blood of a young goat and do spells with it or some such nonsense. You'll run into people with animal blood on the walls, strung up dead chickens, animal heads in jars, etc. You'll also see a fair amount of psycho voodoo practitioners with swords and machetes walking around in public.

Yeah yeah yeah, I went to my school's D&D club a few times, I know what to expect.

Equipoise
4th January 09, 09:08 PM
Something like....

zng5kRle4FA

Wounded Ronin
4th January 09, 11:03 PM
If I were a cop, and I was confronted by a man wearing a German military uniform and wielding a Kar98k with a bayonet, I'd probably poop in my pants. Old WWII style battle rifles had testicles that were exponentially bigger than the testicles of military rifles today. That karbiner kurtz uses a 7.92x57mm cartridge and if he were to hit me with a round the last thing I'd see would be some red letters flashing "PWNT" before dying. I suppose you could argue that a cop with a handgun is outgunned by a dude with a WWII battle rifle.

Seeing as the guy was firing blanks in an urban area it's not half surprising that the cops flipped out and blew him away.

SFGOON
5th January 09, 01:32 AM
Honestly, a pistol is nothing compared to a rifle. They're louder, easier to aim, cause worse wounds and will knock you on your fucking ass. I don't trust pistols, especially against a military-grade rifle.

WarPhalange
5th January 09, 02:48 AM
If I were a cop, and I was confronted by a man wearing a German military uniform and wielding a Kar98k with a bayonet, I'd probably poop in my pants. Old WWII style battle rifles had testicles that were exponentially bigger than the testicles of military rifles today. That karbiner kurtz uses a 7.92x57mm cartridge and if he were to hit me with a round the last thing I'd see would be some red letters flashing "PWNT" before dying. I suppose you could argue that a cop with a handgun is outgunned by a dude with a WWII battle rifle.

Seeing as the guy was firing blanks in an urban area it's not half surprising that the cops flipped out and blew him away.

Then why the fuck do all those bolt-action rifles suck ass in Call of Duty 4? There is no incentive to use them over submachine guns. Maybe if you really like sniping, but that gets pretty boring and I will knife your ass.

SFGOON
5th January 09, 04:28 AM
Do the MGs ever jam or overheat in that game?

Yeah, I thought not.

Shawarma
5th January 09, 07:33 AM
Video games are generally not designed by WW2 vets, Loops.

Equipoise
5th January 09, 10:10 AM
If I were a cop, and I was confronted by a man wearing a German military uniform and wielding a Kar98k with a bayonet, I'd probably poop in my pants. Old WWII style battle rifles had testicles that were exponentially bigger than the testicles of military rifles today. That karbiner kurtz uses a 7.92x57mm cartridge and if he were to hit me with a round the last thing I'd see would be some red letters flashing "PWNT" before dying. I suppose you could argue that a cop with a handgun is outgunned by a dude with a WWII battle rifle.

Seeing as the guy was firing blanks in an urban area it's not half surprising that the cops flipped out and blew him away.

That's why you're not a cop. Also, the majority of us here carry M4's. On a situation like this I'd be using that versus the handgun. We were taught back in the academy that your handgun is always a secondary weapon as your rifle or shotgun should be the primary. As for being outgunned? That's going to depend on cover, amount of officers, the range etc. I believe in Seattle they carry the Glock 22's. In a basement, I'd prefer that over a WWII long rifle.

What is this talk of testicles? Have you fired either kind of rifle to judge their efficacy?


Honestly, a pistol is nothing compared to a rifle. They're louder, easier to aim, cause worse wounds and will knock you on your fucking ass. I don't trust pistols, especially against a military-grade rifle.

How good are you with a pistol in CQB drills? You have much more room to maneuver in tight quarters with a pistol than you do with an M4/AR-15. Ideally you'd have an MP 5+ variant when clearing tight spaces.

Wounded Ronin
5th January 09, 08:00 PM
What is this talk of testicles? Have you fired either kind of rifle to judge their efficacy?


What? Are you suggesting that WWII battle rifles don't have bigger balls than modern tactical rifles?

To answer your question I haven't fired the Kar98k, but I've got a Mosin Nagant which is similar. I don't own an AR 15 but I own a Ruger Mini 14 with 20 round mags. Yes, I do fire both of them.

Wounded Ronin
8th January 09, 08:20 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRfjcRdR1ac&feature=related