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View Full Version : Chinese Gymnasts cheat



Halfrican
19th August 08, 10:46 PM
You know it's true, fucking cheaters.

EuropIan
19th August 08, 10:48 PM
My name is Halfrican and I am butt hurt
P.S. USA! USA! USA! USA! USA!

It's ok when they cheat this hard.

Neildo
19th August 08, 11:34 PM
being shorter with a lower center of gravity and beginning training when they're 3 is not cheating. i think your kung fu is just weak.

Aphid Jones
20th August 08, 12:08 AM
being shorter with a lower center of gravity and beginning training when they're 3 is not cheating. i think your kung fu is just weak.

You honestly think they didn't cheat?

Neildo
20th August 08, 12:19 AM
i actually missed it, i'm just fuckin around.

nihilist
20th August 08, 12:30 AM
How do you cheat @ gymnastics?

Blow the judges?

Arhetton
20th August 08, 12:36 AM
jmf5GTALw6o

Aphid Jones
20th August 08, 12:40 AM
How do you cheat @ gymnastics?

Blow the judges?
They were all under the mandatory age of 16.

nihilist
20th August 08, 12:46 AM
I know at least one person who thinks it's alright to have sex with them as punishment for their misdeeds.

Arhetton
20th August 08, 01:08 AM
you know in australia the age of consent is 16. I'm just saying is all.

nihilist
20th August 08, 01:14 AM
What is the age of consent for scratching and choking?

HappyOldGuy
20th August 08, 01:35 AM
Depends if you are plannng to let them up afterwards.

OP=isn't this why pedos like bela karoli dig asian chicks in the first place?

nihilist
20th August 08, 01:39 AM
Depends if you are plannng to let them up afterwards.


If you let them up they may come after you with a medium-sized kitchen utensil.

Plasma
20th August 08, 08:56 PM
http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/08/08/20/1259253.shtml

bob
20th August 08, 09:23 PM
You know that rule is in place to protect kids rather than because it confers an unfair advantage don't you? And that it's a pretty arbitrary number that varies from sport to sport (there's a 12 year old competing in swimming).

HappyOldGuy
20th August 08, 10:46 PM
You know that rule is in place to protect kids rather than because it confers an unfair advantage don't you?

In other words the chinese government is ignoring the safety rules designed to protect children from abuse and expoitation.

bob
20th August 08, 10:55 PM
Your comment only makes sense because you edited out the last part of mine. I really have no problem with 14 year olds competing. It makes no difference because if you're going to make a gymnastics champion you have to start intensive training from a very early age no matter what age they end up at the olympics.

This is just a desperate attempt to justify the ass whupping you guys are receiving at the moment.

HappyOldGuy
20th August 08, 11:22 PM
Your comment only makes sense because you edited out the last part of mine. I really have no problem with 14 year olds competing. It makes no difference because if you're going to make a gymnastics champion you have to start intensive training from a very early age no matter what age they end up at the olympics.

This is just a desperate attempt to justify the ass whupping you guys are receiving at the moment.
You have me confused with someone who gives a fuck about a sport that isn't Judo or Boxing. I do however care about kids getting crippled before high school. The swimming argument is ridiculous. I grew up around olympic hopefull swimmers. I recall zero career ending injuries. They are routine for junior gymnasts. Different sports offer different risks and require different rules to protect the kids. Kids are not allowed to compete (at all) in boxing till they are 16 for a very good reason. Kids under 16 compete in judo under different rules, also for a very good reason. Archery, not so much an issue.

bob
20th August 08, 11:27 PM
Did you miss the part where I said a 14 year old and a 16 year old are both going to have to start at the same time anyway?

HappyOldGuy
20th August 08, 11:36 PM
Did you miss the part where I said a 14 year old and a 16 year old are both going to have to start at the same time anyway?
Training intensity is not the same.

Look, the rule is new, and was put in for very good reasons that have nothing to do with competitive advantage.

bob
20th August 08, 11:45 PM
If the concern of the American media were for the welfare of those gymnasts then I would give them a fairer hearing.

HappyOldGuy
20th August 08, 11:54 PM
If the concern of the American media were for the welfare of those gymnasts then I would give them a fairer hearing.

The hypocricy of the american media does not make it okay for china to routinely flaunt rules designed to protect kids.

bob
21st August 08, 12:13 AM
I'm no great fan of gymnastics as a healthy lifestyle choice. I'd be concerned if my kids wanted to throw themselves into it at the elite level.

However, the other perspective is that those kids are getting a chance to drag themselves and their entire families out of poverty that would otherwise be completely unreachable. They would thank nobody (either now or later in life) if that chance were taken away from them because of this rule.

There's a strong cultural tradition in China that dates to well before the modern olympics of kids leaving home very young to train full time in this kind of stuff (see the history of the Beijing Opera).

Steve
21st August 08, 12:16 AM
As bornsceptic said, let us not forget this is one kid out of well over a BILLION people.

Who can complain at that point?

mrblackmagic
21st August 08, 06:40 AM
I could care less, but the drama was entertaining. I'm just mad I didn't get to see more of Alicia Sacramone.

KhorneliusPraxx
21st August 08, 09:50 AM
not having cable has really sucked for me...all I get to watch is gymnastics, track, and swimming...oh and beach volley ball. Is all the good stuff on cable?

mrblackmagic
21st August 08, 06:49 PM
Good because those were the best.

KhorneliusPraxx
21st August 08, 10:40 PM
I wanted to see...in this order:

1. Judo
2. Boxing
3. Fencing
4. Wrestling
5. and definitly least, TKD

Steve
21st August 08, 10:48 PM
not having cable has really sucked for me...all I get to watch is gymnastics, track, and swimming...oh and beach volley ball. Is all the good stuff on cable?

You've heard of this thing called the internet, right?

syberia
21st August 08, 10:57 PM
You've heard of this thing called the internet, right?

I hear it's overratted.

KhorneliusPraxx
21st August 08, 11:01 PM
NBC and the Olympic commitee are strictly keeping this shit off of youtube, you have to go to their site to watch it and some kind of NBC/Microsoft/Intel trilateral commision has conspired against me.


Video is currently supported on the following browsers:
Internet Explorer 6, 7 for Windows
(Vista, XP SP2 or greater and 2003)
Firefox 1.5, 2, 3 for Windows
(Vista, XP SP2 or greater and 2003)
Firefox 1.5, 2, 3 for Mac
(OS 10.4.8 or greater, Intel only)
Safari 2 & 3 for Mac
(OS 10.4.8 or greater, Intel only)

Why in the hell would it matter what kind of chip I have in my computer? I can understand soft wear being an issue...but to not see it based on hardware?

Steve
21st August 08, 11:07 PM
Dude, get Firefox 3.0.1 already.

They just want to use the most up to date browsers.

syberia
21st August 08, 11:08 PM
Veoh might be still allowing it.

Sun Wukong
22nd August 08, 01:47 AM
the real tragedy here, in my opinion, is that the girls really do deserve the medals, but the government put them on the team, and they have little choice in the way of whether they lied about their age or not. The government sponsors did it for them and, honestly, I reall doubt that any of those girls had a choice.

The american team, honestly, can only hope to be awarded gold medals by default at this point, as they really were beaten by the better team.

They might want the medal, but really I don't think they earned it. The chinese team did earn it, but the government sponsors violated the rules to get it.

The US team co-ordinators had a smaller pool to pick from, so it could be argued that the Chinese team had an unfair advantage on that score.

On the argument that these girls are being expoloited, I can't deny it, even if they are all indeed above the age of entry. Most of China lives far below the poverty line that modern nations and the suburbanite american competitors are accustomed too. The most that most chinese athletes can hope for is momentary stardom which may lead to a more properous life so they can climb, carrying their families with them, out of the shit that is being poor in china.

What I'm very worried about in all this, is that these girls or their coaches will be scape-goated or if the government will provide all the documentation necessary to prove their age (at least enough to make it impossible for the IOC to verify their age, which is a lot more easy to do than admit the government took part in a scam as the PRC government doesn't fuck around when they lie, they stick to their story and never look back).

I doubt anything will come of this, because press reports on ages aren't "reliable" documents. Government records are, and since the PRC gov is holding that card, I sincerely doubt the IOC will get squat out of this.

Neildo
22nd August 08, 02:17 AM
this was on the front page of the paper here today.

HUEG NEWZ L33T HAXXOR BUSTS KIDZ OMG

fuck.

http://www.canada.com/topics/sports/beijing2008/story.html?id=c443ce9e-1fd2-430d-a6c0-fcda52ae8700

it was on the front page of canada.com (http://www.canada.com/), the host company for almost all the canadian newspapers.

lolkick08
22nd August 08, 03:45 AM
Here's an underaged athlete who's not chinese

http://uk.reuters.com/article/businessCompany/idUKPEK20033220080814 (http://uk.reuters.com/article/businessCompany/idUKPEK20033220080814)

Correct me if I'm wrong but Cameroon was not criticized for having this 12 year old competing against the "older rivals". I'm guessing that she did not kick any or not enough ass in the Olympics to reicieve shit from the news.



edit: The girl's name is Antoinette Gueida who's going to compete in swimming

KhorneliusPraxx
22nd August 08, 08:56 AM
Dude, get Firefox 3.0.1 already.

They just want to use the most up to date browsers.

what part of INTEL ONLY did you not understand? My browser is irrelevant.

KhorneliusPraxx
22nd August 08, 09:06 AM
The american team, honestly, can only hope to be awarded gold medals by default at this point, as they really were beaten by the better team.

They might want the medal, but really I don't think they earned it. The chinese team did earn it, but the government sponsors violated the rules to get it.
I have to cry 'bullshit.' You can only earn a medal by being the best AND following the rules.
I suppose if a team won the Little League World Series by having a couple of young looking 18 year olds pitching and jacking the long ball...they earned the championship. I don't think cheating equals earning.
I am currently 215 lbs. If myself and the promoters lied about my weight and I won an MMA fight against 150 pounder...they could never take that away from me because I earned it?

Phrost
22nd August 08, 09:45 AM
China is Bullshido's Douchebag of the Month.

With a link back to this thread.

Shawarma
22nd August 08, 10:33 AM
Halfrican amuses me. First, he goes "Hellz yeah, US is whuppin ass at the olympics, suck it Chinks!" Then, when China has completely outrun the US, he begins crying "No Fair!"

Steve
22nd August 08, 12:51 PM
what part of INTEL ONLY did you not understand? My browser is irrelevant.

Dude, get a real computer already.

Bahuyuddha
22nd August 08, 12:59 PM
Halfrican amuses me. First, he goes "Hellz yeah, US is whuppin ass at the olympics, suck it Chinks!" Then, when China has completely outrun the US, he begins crying "No Fair!"

Except that they actually did cheat. Or at least it looks that way. I don't really care if we lose to the Chinese, if they win fairly. But what kind of message does it send to those girls (or any athlete, for that matter), when you tell them that it is ok to lie about their age in competition? That you should cheat to win, if you think you can get away with it?

Plasma
22nd August 08, 05:32 PM
what part of INTEL ONLY did you not understand? My browser is irrelevant.


NBC is using the Microsoft SilverLight client , which requires a client side install. Currently SilverLight is only complied for the the X86 architecture, not the PPC architecture present in older Apple Computers. Its the same issue of why 64-bit Linux users can't have Flash, Adobe won't compile their Linux flash client for 64-bit. And with the closed-source model that Adobe and Microsoft use, users cannot compile their own.

Sun Wukong
22nd August 08, 06:17 PM
I have to cry 'bullshit.' You can only earn a medal by being the best AND following the rules.
I suppose if a team won the Little League World Series by having a couple of young looking 18 year olds pitching and jacking the long ball...they earned the championship. I don't think cheating equals earning.
I am currently 215 lbs. If myself and the promoters lied about my weight and I won an MMA fight against 150 pounder...they could never take that away from me because I earned it?
that's not even equitable as both of those examples imply an advantage was taken by their age. there wasn't an advantage other than they had more athletes to pick from. The only reason the rule was put into place was to prevent exploitation of young children.

You can call bullshit on those girls being better at the game, but the reality is, that they were better.

Little league players don't play against adults for a reason, adults are bigger and stronger. Lying about weight in a fight is a bullshit example because bigger fighters have natural advantages that necessitate weight classes.

There is no conferred advantage to being younger than 16 in gymnastics that I've ever heard of. Additionally, it's not like they have a fucking choice in the matter because when the PRC tells a citizen to lie about something, you'd better fucking believe their citizens will fucking step to it, and quickly.

These girls are faultless and deserve recognition for their accomplishments, the problem is that the other teams were only disadvantaged because they had a smaller pool to pick from. It's fair to call shenanigans, but letting kids be vilified for some shit they had no control over is teh real bullshit.

Dagon Akujin
22nd August 08, 06:27 PM
You think the Chinese are cheaters? You should see every last "athelete" in the Olympic speed walking event. Those bitches never keep their feet on the ground!




http://www.racewalk.com/PhotoStory200450KMensOlympics/GO7X2628.jpg

HappyOldGuy
22nd August 08, 06:28 PM
There is NO conferred advantage to being younger than 16 in gymnastics that I've ever heard of. Additionally, it's not like they have a fucking choice in the matter because when the PRC tells a citizen to lie about something, you'd better fucking believe their citizens will fucking step to it, and quickly.


I mostly agree, but there are advantages. It's a judged event, and the judges apparently don't like curves, which is why the chinese program also feeds the girls puberty suppressing drugs, and also, younger=shorter=lower center of gravity.

But the main point is that the chinese government is squishing young bodies for the glory of the state outside of the time honored tradition of warfare.

mrblackmagic
22nd August 08, 07:20 PM
I mostly agree, but there are advantages. It's a judged event, and the judges apparently don't like curves, which is why the chinese program also feeds the girls puberty suppressing drugs, and also, younger=shorter=lower center of gravity.

But the main point is that the chinese government is squishing young bodies for the glory of the state outside of the time honored tradition of warfare.

They went back to foot binding? The bastards!!!























And back to Alicia Sacramone.

http://www.faniq.com/images/blog/Picture%2038(6).png

KhorneliusPraxx
22nd August 08, 10:03 PM
that's not even equitable as both of those examples imply an advantage was taken by their age. there wasn't an advantage other than they had more athletes to pick from. The only reason the rule was put into place was to prevent exploitation of young children.

You can call bullshit on those girls being better at the game, but the reality is, that they were better.

Little league players don't play against adults for a reason, adults are bigger and stronger. Lying about weight in a fight is a bullshit example because bigger fighters have natural advantages that necessitate weight classes.

There is no conferred advantage to being younger than 16 in gymnastics that I've ever heard of. Additionally, it's not like they have a fucking choice in the matter because when the PRC tells a citizen to lie about something, you'd better fucking believe their citizens will fucking step to it, and quickly.

These girls are faultless and deserve recognition for their accomplishments, the problem is that the other teams were only disadvantaged because they had a smaller pool to pick from. It's fair to call shenanigans, but letting kids be vilified for some shit they had no control over is teh real bullshit.
you are wrong...there are huge advantages... a professionally trained 10 year old is capable of far more than the same 'fully grown' person. These advantages come from both greater flexibilty and a much lower body weight.
You are mistaken if you think that I would blame the girls...they are just following orders. The point isn't that the girls need to be punished. The point is that the legitimate winners shouldn't be punished and not give what they earned.

Phrost
22nd August 08, 10:56 PM
Not to mention that the younger you are, the more fearless you tend to be as well.

Hell, Mao himself wrote about it.

Sun Wukong
23rd August 08, 02:54 AM
OK, it does stand to reason that being smaller helps in gymnastics. there's another thing that I'm considering that might be even worse than the girls lying about their ages: giving these kids meds to stunt the onset of puberty. <- that is indeed fucked up and I wouldn't put it past the PRC government to do.

If they did that, then they wouldn't have to lie about the kids ages, because they wouldn't develope fast enough anyway. H.O.G. was the only place I've heard that being brought up as a possibility from, might not be true, but if it is, then that's far, far worse. Fucking with someones hormones can have drastically bad health side effects at a young age. It's not exactly your standard performance enhancing drug, so i'm betting nobody would even test for something like that.

There is the off chance that these girls are indeed of age, even though it's not looking very likely. I saw some of my brother in laws pictures from when he was 16 and he looked like a 12 year old girl (poor kid). At any rate, it's a safe bet china won't be hosting another olympic game for a while at this rate.

Cullion
23rd August 08, 07:46 AM
Asian women often look underage which is why so many innocent men have been falsely arrested for paedophilia when they're just trying to have a nice happy time in the resorts of south-east Asia. I've got so many stories to share.

nihilist
23rd August 08, 09:34 AM
Recount for us if you will the tale of the first time you were incarcerated.

HappyOldGuy
23rd August 08, 11:29 AM
On the drugs thing, there are lots of allegations but no proof, and not just about China. The WADA doesn't test for the relevant drugs. But abusing the girls bodies to keep them small is universal.

http://openmike.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/08/22/1283370.aspx

Dagon Akujin
23rd August 08, 12:13 PM
This thread needs more pics!!!!


http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/b5/fullj.991af4bca9cf08a9b7bf94da0146dfde/991af4bca9cf08a9b7bf94da0146dfde-getty-81973110ps041_olympics_day_.jpg
http://espn-att.starwave.com/media/oly/2005/1121/photo/g_nastia_412.jpg
http://www.gymstarz.net/gymndesign/LiukinNWP1.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/76/216100052_5a9c9732ab.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/32/65499278_071077745f.jpg
http://gymnasticscoaching.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/liukin.jpg
http://media.katu.com/images/061016nastia_liukin.jpg
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20080815/2008_08_15t021156_302x450_us_olympics_gymnastics_w omen.jpg
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20080818/capt.5d73cf13ec5b4258bc2991f2c2c5fa31.beijing_olym pics_gymnastics_women_olygy136.jpg
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20080815/i/r802257046.jpg
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20080819/i/r1917943464.jpg
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20080815/capt.e8f665587f9c425dbf38a861e0dad3a1.beijing_olym pics_gymnastics_womens_all_around_olygy330.jpg
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20080815/2008_08_15t021110_365x450_us_olympics_gymnastics_w omen.jpg
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20080815/capt.99bff7e3ef87404ab3b23e1da9a0c7f0.beijing_olym pics_gymnastics_womens_all_around_olygy306.jpg
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20080815/capt.540471e61b8c47d6afab40ef0f3e3037.beijing_olym pics_gymnastics_womens_all_around_olygy316.jpg
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20080807/2008_08_07t034022_274x450_us_olympics_gymnastics_t raining.jpg




I feel a little weird but she is actually 18, so it's okay I think. :P

Dagon Akujin
23rd August 08, 12:42 PM
http://www.sport.be/fotospecial/2255/Alicia.jpg
http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/71/fullj.12a8bbee4e9fa912a8e48af684d2d7a3/12a8bbee4e9fa912a8e48af684d2d7a3-getty-oly-2008-gymnastics-team-final-usa.jpg
http://worldgymart.com/gallery/2006/Aa06/img02/wq1/Aa06SaA7912FXq.jpg
http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/95/fullj.6b05863dd4d6419ad25624249b0c4103/6b05863dd4d6419ad25624249b0c4103-getty-oly-2008-gymnastics-team-final.jpg

Sun Wukong
23rd August 08, 01:28 PM
johnson's got a pretty face and all, but did anybody else notice that she kind of waddles when she runs because of those enormous muscle bound thighs?

mrblackmagic
23rd August 08, 05:51 PM
Considering the talent pool China had available to them. It wasn't foul play. They handpicked the most freakishly small gymnast and trained the hell out of them. I think that is more practical approach than hormone suppression.

mrblackmagic
23rd August 08, 05:55 PM
johnson's got a pretty face and all, but did anybody else notice that she kind of waddles when she runs because of those enormous muscle bound thighs?

I think she's adorable kid, but there was times when I literally said to myself," she could rip a grown man in half."

The_Tao
23rd August 08, 09:48 PM
In a good way or a bad way?

Kein Haar
23rd August 08, 10:39 PM
Who dat German hobbit gymnast with the moose knuckle in her leotard?

mrblackmagic
24th August 08, 07:23 AM
In a good way or a bad way?

I didn't realize there was a good way.

Harpy
25th August 08, 06:09 AM
I say Halfrican (team USA & rest of the world) and Sun Wukong (team China) battle it out with a 1 minute rhythmic gymnastic routine. Video evidence to be judged by a panel of Sociociders.

bob
25th August 08, 07:43 AM
Haven't you heard? Merkans fail at judged sports. It's because the world is inherently biased against them.

KhorneliusPraxx
25th August 08, 09:35 AM
I think she's adorable kid, but there was times when I literally said to myself," she could rip a grown man in half."
Welcome to my world.

mrblackmagic
25th August 08, 01:57 PM
Welcome to my world.

I look forward to marriage, thank you.

Halfrican
26th August 08, 02:44 PM
when I made this thread I was not even concerned with the age, but the unfair judging in the mens team final and ALL individual events. There was also a huge bias in diving but the Chinese divers still were better so it didn't matter as much