PDA

View Full Version : Magnetic perpetual motion engine - Viable?



Shawarma
10th January 08, 03:37 PM
SvB3PiPBozU

Quite interesting, I thought. But there must be some reason why this isn't viable as a means of power generation.

Anyone wanna take a shot at debunking it?

Cullion
10th January 08, 03:38 PM
Don't be such a retard.

Edit: The woman who introduces the piece is fine though.

Shawarma
10th January 08, 03:41 PM
Can't help it, I have next to no interest in physics or engineering and thus qualify for retahd status as far as they're concerned.

Why can't it work?

Cullion
10th January 08, 03:47 PM
Alright I've read the explanation of how they claim it works.

They've coupled an AC generator and a DC motor. They clam to have found a way of violating the basic laws of thermodynamics by having the motor/generator pair exchange energy with greater than 100% efficiency.

Bunk.

MaverickZ
10th January 08, 04:21 PM
Inventors are so cute.

Steve
10th January 08, 05:00 PM
The woman who introduces the piece is fine though.

I love the commentary at the end "Hmm, good idea."

Pretty, but doesn't seem to have much upstairs.

Cullion
10th January 08, 05:06 PM
I love the commentary at the end "Hmm, good idea."

Pretty, but doesn't seem to have much upstairs.

But for the man who, like, totally understands her mind, she has so much more to offer. So much more.

Steve
10th January 08, 05:10 PM
I couldn't have said it better myself.

Knave
10th January 08, 05:37 PM
Greetings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_perpetual_motion_machines#2000s
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steorn

The Steorn thing seems to be similar. I don't know enough about magnetic force to say whether it's theoretically possible to use it as part of a practical energy source. But in any case it does not "create" energy.

What I mean is, perhaps it's possible that magnetic force could be an energy source, I really don't know. But if it is, the machine would be more along the lines of a solar panel. It isn't running itself, it is just being powered by something that is being used up extremely slowly. If that's the case, assuming the output is actually usable, it's more interesting in that it would seem to be "clean" energy.

(almost forgot to mention this...the most likely possibility is that it's a big con and the inventors will simply disappear with a bunch of funding)

WarPhalange
10th January 08, 06:11 PM
She may be good looking, but she needs to keep her mouth shut. That accent is horrid.

Truculent Sheep
10th January 08, 06:41 PM
This sounds much more interesting:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/01/10/super_soaker_nasa_boffin_heat_engine_solid_state/

...Popular Mechanics reports that Lonnie Johnson, late of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, believes he may be able to hugely increase the efficiency of converting heat into electricity. Since becoming rich on Super Soaker licensing, Johnson has used his cash to develop and patent various new technologies.

The latest of these he has dubbed the Johnson Thermoelectric Energy Conversion system (JTEC: technical details and Flash diagram from Johnson's company here). It's a "solid-state engine" which uses temperature differences to drive a closed hydrogen loop in which protons move across a membrane. This generates electricity, drawing energy efficiently from the heat source. Johnson thinks it will easily scale up to the megawatt range.

The US National Science Foundation believes that JTEC has potential, and has funded its development.

socratic
10th January 08, 07:24 PM
For the non-Australians out there, I'm just going to let you in on a little secret: That woman is the presenter of the worst attempt at journalism I have ever had the misfortune of seeing. Everyone I know watches 60 Minutes only for the hilarity of their poor attempts at being a news program. Everything on that show is bunk, including her.

In terms of the engine: Magnetism is not a permenant force. All magnets will gradually lose their magnetism, if left to their own devices- ever try to attract something with a magnet, then a few years later, use the same magnet, to find out it doesn't work? Not to mention the air-friction will cause loss of energy as the machine operates.

... Not to mention that if such a machine were capable of creating energy that does not exist (ie more electricity than is put in) then the entire universe probably would have gone up in a huge and awesome explosion of infinite energy by now.

WarPhalange
10th January 08, 10:23 PM
For the non-Australians out there, I'm just going to let you in on a little secret: That woman is the presenter of the worst attempt at journalism I have ever had the misfortune of seeing. Everyone I know watches 60 Minutes only for the hilarity of their poor attempts at being a news program. Everything on that show is bunk, including her.

Holy shit, that's like Fox News over here.


... Not to mention that if such a machine were capable of creating energy that does not exist (ie more electricity than is put in) then the entire universe probably would have gone up in a huge and awesome explosion of infinite energy by now.

1) Energy actually has a gravitational force, so you'd be more likely to see more black holes and such instead of an "explosion".

2) Just because something is possible doesn't mean the natural universe can do it on its own. Something like a regular transformer probably would never just collapse together, for example.

socratic
11th January 08, 09:00 PM
Holy shit, that's like Fox News over here.

Except with less politics and more scungy ass citizens and their domestic disputes with their neighbours and their out of control kids.


1) Energy actually has a gravitational force, so you'd be more likely to see more black holes and such instead of an "explosion".

2) Just because something is possible doesn't mean the natural universe can do it on its own. Something like a regular transformer probably would never just collapse together, for example.

Didn't know point 1. Guess a black hole is still pretty awesome way to go out. I understand the suggestion of possiblity and likelihood, but could you expand this in terms of the device? I was suggesting it was impossible for the device to function as it claims, but I perhaps I didn't say this clearly.

WarPhalange
11th January 08, 09:12 PM
Today I confirmed with my professor that magnetic fields in fact do NO work. Ever.

If you see a magnetic field doing something, there is something else that is causing it.

So for example when you have the large cranes that lift cars in junk yards, it's actually the power generator doing the work, but transfering its energy through the magnetic field.

You can't like suck energy out of the field, like they seem to be suggesting.

Cullion
12th January 08, 04:15 AM
I wish the laws of thermodynamics could be the piece of physics people were taught and it was drummed in more solidly.

Riddeck
12th January 08, 04:31 AM
I wish the laws of thermodynamics could be the piece of physics people were taught and it was drummed in more solidly.


Isn't it the 'Theory of Thermodynamics"?

Steve
12th January 08, 04:32 AM
Nice burn.

Cullion
12th January 08, 04:32 AM
Isn't it the 'Theory of Thermodynamics"?

Same thing.

Riddeck
12th January 08, 04:39 AM
Fuckers.

socratic
12th January 08, 08:00 PM
Fuckers.

Good luck trying to prove it isn't right, if that's what you're getting at.

Riddeck
13th January 08, 03:29 AM
Good luck trying to prove it isn't right, if that's what you're getting at.

Suck my ass, worthless, this does not involve you.

DAYoung
13th January 08, 03:38 AM
"it just keeps going faster and faster"

http://imgred.com/http://blog.kir.com/archives/homer-simpson.jpg

WarPhalange
13th January 08, 03:41 AM
The only difference between "theory" and "law" is that a "law" is an observation, whereas a "theory" is an explanation.

Newton's Law of Gravity, Coulomb's Law, Biot-Savarte Law, Thermodynamic Laws, all observations without trying to say why.

Theory of plate tectonics, evolution, relativity, etc. are all explanations of various observations.

One doesn't graduate to the other, though. They are all on the same level.

Dagon Akujin
13th January 08, 03:44 AM
I totally felt like I met you tonight in downtown Birmingham, Riddeck.

I was chatting with my friends in Java Hutt and the Mike Nifong lawyer (Duke rape case prosecuter who got disbarred) came on the news. So we started talking about ethics in law (my friend Hanz, the Asian guy with the funny laugh, is getting his law degree).

Anyway, this guy came up and said "Do you want to know about legal ethics and case law? I can teach you everything about it that will blow your mind in a single minute." As we made funny faces, feeling like we were talking to some well knowledged lawyer, he asked us for stuff to write on.

"Don't look yet. This is really.... you are going to learn a lot that you never thought of before."
"About case law?"
"Yes. And how legal ethics works for business."
"We were just talking about disclosure and how a prosecuter cannot without exculpatory...."
"Oh.... you think? Watch this. Don't look yet."

The guy was really into it, scribbling away on a napkin. I thought he was going to give us some logic puzzle or something. Then I noticed he was writing stuff about floride.

"Dude. Floride? What are you doing there?"
"Do you know how things work if people can steal things from you that you don't even know you have?"
"Like... you mean like assets?"
"Yeah. Like assets you didn't know you even had. Why is it. WHY is it that the three most electro-negative elements known to man.... this is going to blow your mind."
"About case law?"

His eyes shot around the coffee shop as he presented us with his napkin now complete with scrawl.

"Look into this case study. Lucier Chemicals. And what do they put in our water? Perfect water, which we have a lot of in Michigan? We live in a bowl of it."
"Well yeah, everywhere in Michigan is close to a natural water source."
"Making this place the most dangerous place in the entire world. What do they put in it?"
"Floride?"
"Which is represented by an 'F'. What happens when we put that 'F' in their name? You get Lucifer."
"This is case law?"
"And why is it that they are putting the 3 most electro-negative elements, unnatural elements into your water?"
"Well, floride is for your teeth."
"Yeah... ethics!"

At this point I really thought he was going to start saying that the 'electro-negative' stuff was being used to 'steal' human electricity.... ya know... like in the Matrix. He said that 99% of the floride the U.S. government buys is from "Lucifer Chemical". And then he started looking really bewildered. I set down my coffee because I really thought I was going to have to restrain him.

"You should do a search on this."
"That's an odd conspiracy. I mean, I saw some reports about people who don't drink tap water and instead drink bottled...."
"Your mind?"
"... water and how their teeth, because they didn't have floride..."
"You want to know about ethics and law?"
"... were not as white as...."
"This is everything you need to know. Bromide, chlorine, floride: the three most unnatural negative-electro elements in the universe made by Lucifer."
"... people who drank tap."
"If you study this napkin you will make billions."
"???"
"Billions!"
"Of dollars?"
"BILLIONS!"

With that he seemed a bit pestered and stormed off. No goodbye. No "nice chatting with you." No "See you guys around." Just "BILLIONS!"

So, Riddeck, was that you?

;)

Dagon

WarPhalange
13th January 08, 03:49 AM
The guy is a moron because he could have just taken more electro-positive chemicals like lithium.

Which... oddly enough treat things like Bi-Polar.

I never drink tap water. There is so much shit in there it's digusting. Why they don't just filter it and let it be is beyond me. I'd rather have to buy "flourine suppliments" instead of bottled water.

Or, you know, just brush my teeth.

DAYoung
13th January 08, 03:53 AM
The only difference between "theory" and "law" is that a "law" is an observation, whereas a "theory" is an explanation.

Newton's Law of Gravity, Coulomb's Law, Biot-Savarte Law, Thermodynamic Laws, all observations without trying to say why.

Theory of plate tectonics, evolution, relativity, etc. are all explanations of various observations.

One doesn't graduate to the other, though. They are all on the same level.

‘Let us beware of saying that there are laws in nature,’ wrote Nietzsche. ‘There are only necessities: there is nobody who commands, nobody who obeys, nobody who trespasses.’

king of seals
13th January 08, 12:07 PM
"Which is represented by an 'F'. What happens when we put that 'F' in their name? You get Lucifer."

According to king of seals's first law of conspiracy theories, whenever a person thinks he or she has found a relationship between two or more things, he or she can make a conspiracy theory out of it.


"If you study this napkin you will make billions."

According to king of seals's second law of conspiracy theories, the conspiracy theorist will eventually attempt to share his or her conspiracy theories with at least one other person.

WarPhalange
14th January 08, 02:10 AM
‘Let us beware of saying that there are laws in nature,’ wrote Nietzsche. ‘There are only necessities: there is nobody who commands, nobody who obeys, nobody who trespasses.’

We don't know that. We just don't see any evidence for it.

Also, calling it "Newton's Necessity of Gravity" would be ridiculous.

Riddeck
14th January 08, 01:26 PM
I totally felt like I met you tonight in downtown Birmingham, Riddeck.

I was chatting with my friends in Java Hutt and the Mike Nifong lawyer (Duke rape case prosecuter who got disbarred) came on the news. So we started talking about ethics in law (my friend Hanz, the Asian guy with the funny laugh, is getting his law degree).

Anyway, this guy came up and said "Do you want to know about legal ethics and case law? I can teach you everything about it that will blow your mind in a single minute." As we made funny faces, feeling like we were talking to some well knowledged lawyer, he asked us for stuff to write on.

"Don't look yet. This is really.... you are going to learn a lot that you never thought of before."
"About case law?"
"Yes. And how legal ethics works for business."
"We were just talking about disclosure and how a prosecuter cannot without exculpatory...."
"Oh.... you think? Watch this. Don't look yet."

The guy was really into it, scribbling away on a napkin. I thought he was going to give us some logic puzzle or something. Then I noticed he was writing stuff about floride.

"Dude. Floride? What are you doing there?"
"Do you know how things work if people can steal things from you that you don't even know you have?"
"Like... you mean like assets?"
"Yeah. Like assets you didn't know you even had. Why is it. WHY is it that the three most electro-negative elements known to man.... this is going to blow your mind."
"About case law?"

His eyes shot around the coffee shop as he presented us with his napkin now complete with scrawl.

"Look into this case study. Lucier Chemicals. And what do they put in our water? Perfect water, which we have a lot of in Michigan? We live in a bowl of it."
"Well yeah, everywhere in Michigan is close to a natural water source."
"Making this place the most dangerous place in the entire world. What do they put in it?"
"Floride?"
"Which is represented by an 'F'. What happens when we put that 'F' in their name? You get Lucifer."
"This is case law?"
"And why is it that they are putting the 3 most electro-negative elements, unnatural elements into your water?"
"Well, floride is for your teeth."
"Yeah... ethics!"

At this point I really thought he was going to start saying that the 'electro-negative' stuff was being used to 'steal' human electricity.... ya know... like in the Matrix. He said that 99% of the floride the U.S. government buys is from "Lucifer Chemical". And then he started looking really bewildered. I set down my coffee because I really thought I was going to have to restrain him.

"You should do a search on this."
"That's an odd conspiracy. I mean, I saw some reports about people who don't drink tap water and instead drink bottled...."
"Your mind?"
"... water and how their teeth, because they didn't have floride..."
"You want to know about ethics and law?"
"... were not as white as...."
"This is everything you need to know. Bromide, chlorine, floride: the three most unnatural negative-electro elements in the universe made by Lucifer."
"... people who drank tap."
"If you study this napkin you will make billions."
"???"
"Billions!"
"Of dollars?"
"BILLIONS!"

With that he seemed a bit pestered and stormed off. No goodbye. No "nice chatting with you." No "See you guys around." Just "BILLIONS!"

So, Riddeck, was that you?

;)



Dagon


No no, that was not me, but I want to point out a couple of things. One, I work in downtown Birmingham, and you should come pay me a visit. Cameron's Steakhouse, on Willits, just off of Old Woodward. Come later in the evening, mayhaps we can have a drink so you can see how off the wall and crazy I really am.

Second, as for this guy you spoke to, whatever. Adding F to Lucier (which is funny cause that is my exec's last name) to make Lucifer is kind of quant, and something could be of it, though it seems a far stretch. "They" put symbolical references all about us, never expecting us to think anything of it (Dollar bill's Mason symbols, Rudy winning 9.11% in a few townships in New Hampshire, thank you electronic voting machines, and there is more, specially when it comes to architecture and city planning), and most people never notice, and when it is brought to there attention, they resort to close minded thinking, much like King of Seals here, and pass it off as poppycock.

But no, I do not hang out in downtown Birmingham, because most of those yuppies have no clue about anything relevant and it would probably hurt talking to them. I get enough of it from the people I work with (all they talk about is television shows like "I love New York" and what sports guy is doing what". I have one woman engaged in political talk, but she is voting for Hilary because 'she is a woman' and "I think she is smart". We do get some great UFO discussions happening, however)


*edit*
White teeth are not necessarily a sign of healthy teeth eh? Mine are not 'white' per se, but they are pretty fuckin healthy.

ALSO, I could see his point, as it tied into business ethics as saying "If you can research the effects of these three chemicals on the body, and bring a lawsuit *type thing* against Lucier Chemicals, and the Government, you would make billions. Class action lawsuit or something.

Maybe that was his point, albeit a little vague.

Tom Kagan
14th January 08, 01:34 PM
Anyone wanna take a shot at debunking it?


Since the piece says the generator will be available for purchase "within a year", this means prototypes for mass production are already operating.

If he has a bill from the electric company, I would say this fact effectively debunks it.

Dagon Akujin
14th January 08, 02:25 PM
One, I work in downtown Birmingham, and you should come pay me a visit. Cameron's Steakhouse, on Willits, just off of Old Woodward. Come later in the evening, mayhaps we can have a drink so you can see how off the wall and crazy I really am.

DUDE! I'm at Java Hutt (now called "Mobile Lounge"), right next to the old theater, a few nights every week. Um.... when I get to the bar do I just ask "Is Riddeck working tonight"?


I'll plan to wear my Domo shirt when I come down.

Dagon

Riddeck
14th January 08, 03:09 PM
DUDE! I'm at Java Hutt (now called "Mobile Lounge"), right next to the old theater, a few nights every week. Um.... when I get to the bar do I just ask "Is Riddeck working tonight"?


I'll plan to wear my Domo shirt when I come down.

Dagon

Haha, no, ask for Shelby.

socratic
16th January 08, 04:14 AM
Suck my ass, worthless, this does not involve you.

And I bet you have shitty teeth.

king of seals
16th January 08, 05:53 AM
"They" put symbolical references all about us, never expecting us to think anything of it (Dollar bill's Mason symbols, Rudy winning 9.11% in a few townships in New Hampshire, thank you electronic voting machines, and there is more, specially when it comes to architecture and city planning), and most people never notice, and when it is brought to there attention, they resort to close minded thinking, much like King of Seals here, and pass it off as poppycock.

Only a truly close minded individual would think that those "symbolical references" exist exclusively because he or she can eventually manage to find them.

Plus, the behavior of a conspiracy theorist is extremely predictable once he or she finds what he or she needs for the purpose of making up a conspiracy theory.

Riddeck
16th January 08, 12:22 PM
Only a truly close minded individual would think that those "symbolical references" exist exclusively because he or she can eventually manage to find them.

Plus, the behavior of a conspiracy theorist is extremely predictable once he or she finds what he or she needs for the purpose of making up a conspiracy theory.

Yeah, ok. When did I even hint that they exist exclusively to be found? They exist because they are put there, for a reason. Kind of like George Bush naming three different crafts (two planes and a boat) Barbara, after his wife.

Dagon Akujin
16th January 08, 01:09 PM
I would totally vote Republican in order to bag this chick:


MMmmmmmm.... Barbara Bush.

http://deseretnews.com/photos/3535698.jpg
http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2005/news/050207/bbush.jpg
http://mattbrundage.com/random/barbara.jpg
http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2004/07/14/reut_bush-w-daughter_narrowweb__200x309.jpg
http://english.pravda.ru/img/idb/23-barbara_bush.jpg
http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2006/11/22/barbarabush_wideweb__470x415,2.jpg
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/1012/barbarabushne4.jpg


But Jenna Bush???? Not so much (NSFW)

http://www.celebgonebad.com/images/jenna_bush_105_340.jpg