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ergo
18th October 07, 11:38 AM
I was watching Heroes last night for the first time, and it suddenly occured to me that there's really nothing heroic about a superhero. Superman has invulnerability and superhuman strength, and he can fly. He also has or has had superhuman speed, vision, hearing, intelligence and stamina, and some kind of ice breath ability. Am I really supposed to be impressed when Superman does something heroic? He is invincible and all-powerful, so what's actually heroic about him saving someone from a burning building or defeating a few muggers? In Heroes, one of the characters is invulnerable to damage, and she rescues someone from a fire (if I remember right). Well that's really nice, but not heroic in the least, since she isn't endangering herself in any way.

And that's just the thing. Average Joe and Average Jane have some reservations about rushing into a burning building because they are quite likely to die or suffer serious damage, and that's exactly why it's heroic for them to go into a burning building but not heroic for Superman or Ms. Invulnerable. Superheroes don't have to make an effort and they don't have to put themselves in danger (unless a giant robot is attacking the galaxy or some shit).

Some individuals are stronger, faster or better at fighting than others, but usually as a result of years or even decades of hard work. While I just started watching Heroes, I'm pretty sure that the characters did absolutely fuckall to get their abilities.

Normal humans are comparatively weak and fragile, and they put their lives on the line anyway. Most Medals of Honor have been awarded posthumously, but I'm sure those people were all pussies since they couldn't stop time or shoot death rays from their asses.

Osiris
18th October 07, 12:15 PM
Superman can and has died. So have most superheroes.

Toby Christensen
18th October 07, 12:23 PM
http://profiles.nlm.nih.gov/VC/B/B/G/Y/

I draw your attention to the Melanesian gent in the red suit. Like most Torres Strait Islanders he's tall and athletic, plus he practises safe secs and doesn't carry weapons like a pansy.

I still suspect he's vulnerable to conventional and unconventional attacks.

I can just see him waterbombing some roughnecks' campfire with a water filled 'dom then beating the shit out of them in pitch darkness, stealing the Phantom's gimmick.

AAAhmed46
18th October 07, 12:38 PM
Superman can and has died. So have most superheroes.


Sacrificing himself i might add.




Also batman is a normal dude in a suit.

Same with Punisher.

ergo
18th October 07, 12:43 PM
Superman can and has died. So have most superheroes.
Yes, when giant robots attack the galaxy. I am mainly referring to more mundane situations, but even when Zombie Hitler threatens the world, I can't imagine a superhero being as concerned as a normal person would be. Superheroes have such awesome powers, but a normal person can die so very, very easily (and often does). "Normal" heroes are more interesting because they work within unforgiving limitations.

Oh, and I'm not talking about characters like Punisher and Batman.

king of seals
18th October 07, 12:44 PM
Superman can and has died. So have most superheroes.

What's so heroic about being brought back to life everytime you die?

AAAhmed46
18th October 07, 01:48 PM
Yes, when giant robots attack the galaxy. I am mainly referring to more mundane situations, but even when Zombie Hitler threatens the world, I can't imagine a superhero being as concerned as a normal person would be. Superheroes have such awesome powers, but a normal person can die so very, very easily (and often does). "Normal" heroes are more interesting because they work within unforgiving limitations.

Oh, and I'm not talking about characters like Punisher and Batman.


In that case i agree.

Though i must add, some 'hero' charecters arn't so heroic, or have something about them that is different.

For instance, Ghost rider has alot of power, he's a servant of demans, yet he tries to help people.

WarPhalange
18th October 07, 02:02 PM
What's so heroic about being brought back to life everytime you die?

Let me extend this to Jesus.

Christians claim he died for our sins. The ultimate sacrifice? He came back to life 3 days later as a GOD. Seems like a good deal to me.

king of seals
18th October 07, 02:15 PM
Let me extend this to Jesus.

Characters who are brought back to life in superhero fiction do not ascend to Heaven like Jesus.

They'd need to die once again first, assuming their setting features some kind of Heaven.

So yeah, ascension - literally rising into the sky - would make Jesus kind of heroic.

Shawarma
18th October 07, 03:11 PM
I got a great idea - Jihadman, Muslim superhero. Like a normal suicide bomber but is able to piece himself together every time, achieving multiple martyrdoms all in one lifetime!

He has about 2000 virgins waiting for him in heaven now.

WarPhalange
18th October 07, 03:28 PM
Yeah, but they're all related to him.

Shawarma
18th October 07, 03:42 PM
You really think a super-devout Muslim like Jihadman cares about that?

Gezere
18th October 07, 05:53 PM
I was watching Heroes last night for the first time, and it suddenly occured to me that there's really nothing heroic about a superhero. Superman has invulnerability and superhuman strength, and he can fly. He also has or has had superhuman speed, vision, hearing, intelligence and stamina, and some kind of ice breath ability. Am I really supposed to be impressed when Superman does something heroic? He is invincible and all-powerful, so what's actually heroic about him saving someone from a burning building or defeating a few muggers? In Heroes, one of the characters is invulnerable to damage, and she rescues someone from a fire (if I remember right). Well that's really nice, but not heroic in the least, since she isn't endangering herself in any way.

And that's just the thing. Average Joe and Average Jane have some reservations about rushing into a burning building because they are quite likely to die or suffer serious damage, and that's exactly why it's heroic for them to go into a burning building but not heroic for Superman or Ms. Invulnerable. Superheroes don't have to make an effort and they don't have to put themselves in danger (unless a giant robot is attacking the galaxy or some shit).

Some individuals are stronger, faster or better at fighting than others, but usually as a result of years or even decades of hard work. While I just started watching Heroes, I'm pretty sure that the characters did absolutely fuckall to get their abilities.

Normal humans are comparatively weak and fragile, and they put their lives on the line anyway. Most Medals of Honor have been awarded posthumously, but I'm sure those people were all pussies since they couldn't stop time or shoot death rays from their asses.
You arguement is rather silly.

So since its no effort for superman to go into a building and save someone its not heroic?!?!? You obviously are not looking at the full picture. Sure Supes and get in and out but what bout the pple he's saving? He still has to think of their safety. And what about doctors? They save pple's lives all the time and they face very little danger in the process. They are not heros?

If you want to say someone is not a hero then PL is right. Jesus was either a) the son of GOD and endowed with powers and ensight already or b) GOD made flesh and he KNEW that he would die and come back to life all along. So what makes what he did heroric and worthy of worship. If I knew everything that was going to happen and it involved be still being alive and living in luxury at the end then its not real effort on my part for whatever I do.

Odacon
18th October 07, 06:21 PM
Also Superman could turn around and say, at any time "Hold on, why am I pricking about saving people, I'm just going to take over the world and live it up".

Gezere
18th October 07, 06:33 PM
Also Superman could turn around and say, at any time "Hold on, why am I pricking about saving people, I'm just going to take over the world and live it up".
Exactly. Most pple are inherently dicks. If your average joe got superpowers its really a toss up if he will use it for good, evil, or to simply satisfy his own needs. The fact that Superman, or any other superhero, CHOOSES to save pple makes them a hero.

ergo
18th October 07, 07:33 PM
You arguement is rather silly.

So since its no effort for superman to go into a building and save someone its not heroic?!?!? You obviously are not looking at the full picture. Sure Supes and get in and out but what bout the pple he's saving? He still has to think of their safety.
No, I don't think there's really anything heroic about it. If you're invulnerable, then it's not a big deal for you to go inside a burning building and rescue someone. Of course it's commendable, but heroic? No.


And what about doctors? They save pple's lives all the time and they face very little danger in the process. They are not heros?
I don't think of doctors as heroes.

AAAhmed46
18th October 07, 07:52 PM
Deadpool is freaking heroic.

Out of sheer coolness.

WarPhalange
18th October 07, 09:16 PM
Exactly. Most pple are inherently dicks. If your average joe got superpowers its really a toss up if he will use it for good, evil, or to simply satisfy his own needs. The fact that Superman, or any other superhero, CHOOSES to save pple makes them a hero.

I see a little kid fall down into a ditch. I can choose to grab the kid, since the ditch is like a foot deep, or leave him there. If I save him, I am doing my duty. If I leave him, I am an murderer.

SuperGuido
18th October 07, 10:40 PM
They talked about this topic in the movie "Angus". It's about an overweight kid in high school who is socially awkward but brilliant. The movie revolves around him overcoming his social awkwardness and stepping outside his comfort zone.

Throughout the movie, the main character's grandfather continually says, "Superman is NOT heroic. Being heroic involves courage...and courage involves fear. If you aren't afraid to do something, then you aren't heroic."

AAAhmed46
18th October 07, 11:48 PM
But what about people like Metallo and Doomsday? I mean shit, his grandfather must not read comics.

Yiktin Voxbane
19th October 07, 12:31 AM
I Only use my super-pirate-powers to benefit mankind (and advance my own E\/uL agenda) .

WarPhalange
19th October 07, 12:33 AM
Throughout the movie, the main character's grandfather continually says, "Superman is NOT heroic. Being heroic involves courage...and courage involves fear. If you aren't afraid to do something, then you aren't heroic."

I'm afraid to go to the bathroom at night. But I do it anyway. I am an Hero.

AAAhmed46
19th October 07, 01:20 AM
Super-man is anyway, a christ figure in the DC universe more then anything else.

Odacon
19th October 07, 06:30 AM
Look, he's not as heroic as say, a fireman running into a burning building risking his life to pull someone out, but he still goes around saving people and whatnot when he really doesn't have to. Remember he has a cool job and a hot wife, he could be happy just playing family man and letting everyone else look after the world.

Commodore Pipes
19th October 07, 07:56 AM
Superman is a dick. Everybody know that. The intrawebs knows that.

http://www.superdickery.com/dick/1.html

Gezere
19th October 07, 08:48 AM
I see a little kid fall down into a ditch. I can choose to grab the kid, since the ditch is like a foot deep, or leave him there. If I save him, I am doing my duty. If I leave him, I am an murderer.
Not really. Its the DUTY of those who are paid to rescue such individuals. Your duty would be to simply inform them of the situation.

Cullion
19th October 07, 09:53 AM
Depends what country you're in. What the latter option poop-loops describes is a criminal offence in France.

mrblackmagic
19th October 07, 10:00 AM
A hero is someone who does great deeds. It doesn't matter what kind of a person they are.

king of seals
19th October 07, 10:03 AM
Depends what country you're in. What the latter option poop-loops describes is a criminal offence in France.

We have some similar thingy here. "Failure to rescue."

If you encounter what seems to be an inanimated and/or wounded human body you must check it out. Then you must call the authorities, but only if you cannot help him or her yourself.

For example, if you run over a person with your car, the act of not stopping to help him or her alone is a criminal offense that can lead to 1 year in jail or a 2.500 fine.

Neildo
19th October 07, 11:33 AM
For example, if you run over a person with your car, the act of not stopping to help him or her alone is a criminal offense that can lead to 1 year in jail or a 2.500 fine.

That's called criminal negligence here, the individual is at fault. but what if you see for example, some dude who just bailed his bicycle hard, and is laying on the sidewalk possibly with a massive head injury and you don't do anything. is that the same thing?

king of seals
19th October 07, 02:18 PM
but what if you see for example, some dude who just bailed his bicycle hard, and is laying on the sidewalk possibly with a massive head injury and you don't do anything. is that the same thing?

It doesn't matter who or what caused the injury.

Obviously, if the docs/paramedics/whoever are already (coming) there, you don't really need to do anything as the rescue is already occurring.