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Cullion
6th October 07, 08:27 AM
A british trucker brought a lawsuit against the distrubution of 'An Inconvenient Truth' to british schools on the grounds that it was political propaganda loaded with scientific inaccuracies. It's not very often I hear good news about our legal system, but the judge seems to at least partly agree. I'm happy for it to be shown, but the guideline ammendments don't go far enough. I'd like teachers to teach material alongside it produced by properly qualified skeptics such as the professor of climatology I referenced in the other thread.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=485336&in_page_id=1811

McKickboxer
8th October 07, 02:31 PM
This could go further... at the end of any class on Religious Education; someone could come in and explain that quite a few people really think most of what you have just been taught is total nonsense, and the views expressed are part of belief systems which really have rather messed up quite a few lives throughout history.

Personally I think the cloning of Richard Dawkins is long overdue; we could use one in every RE class in the UK to provide some balance.

BTW how the hell does some HGV driver fund legal actions like this anyway.. is there a hidden darker force behind him?

Cullion
8th October 07, 05:11 PM
This could go further... at the end of any class on Religious Education; someone could come in and explain that quite a few people really think most of what you have just been taught is total nonsense, and the views expressed are part of belief systems which really have rather messed up quite a few lives throughout history.

Where falsehoods are being passed as fact unchallenged to support a social or political agenda using taxpayer's money, I agree.



BTW how the hell does some HGV driver fund legal actions like this anyway.. is there a hidden darker force behind him?

He either got legal aid or somebody rich who didn't want the falsehoods in Gore's film passed off as fact to children funded him.

Arhetton
8th October 07, 07:31 PM
A comedian I listened to once coined all that school & religious stuff perfectly.

School is for learning.

Learning.

Nothing else.

In this context:

Should there be religion or prayer during school?

No - school is for learning.

My sentiments exactly.

Anyone who wants to argue that learning about religion is worthy of school - well I think learning about the history of george lucas's star wars universe ancient jedi is important too and should be taught in every school - wait, that would be trainspotting, exactly what other religions are like.

Sorry for derail cullion.

I don't see the benefit of the inconveniant truth propaganda? I mean, is it just for Al Gore 'manbearpig' - who pushing it benefits?

The more pertinent issue is well
1) what can anyone do about china or other dev nations emissions?
2) what can you do about volcanic explosions?
3) what can you do about methane emissions from livestock?

I don't think global warming is a hoax, but its mroe or less like, well what can you do - is the warming significant enough to take drastic action etc.

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/08/06/newsweek-explains-why-global-warming-is-a-hoax/

jvjim
8th October 07, 07:39 PM
Learning about Jesus is still learning. Having to listen to Al Gore, however, is torture, and the developed world doesn't suport torture , does it?

WarPhalange
8th October 07, 07:46 PM
If you are going to devote time to learning about Jesus, you need to devote an equal amount of time to learning about Odin, Zeus, The Dagda, Buddha, etc.

jvjim
8th October 07, 07:51 PM
If you are going to devote time to learning about Jesus, you need to devote an equal amount of time to learning about Odin, Zeus, The Dagda, Buddha, etc.
Don't play Baha'i Ball with me science boy.

Cullion
8th October 07, 07:51 PM
If you are going to devote time to learning about Jesus, you need to devote an equal amount of time to learning about Odin, Zeus, The Dagda, Buddha, etc.

It depends. I don't see why parents shouldn't be allowed to educate their children exclusively in a particular religion if they want to, as long as they don't make me pay for it or force it upon my children.

Sun Wukong
8th October 07, 10:12 PM
I still haven't forgiven the gore clan for the PMRC.

jvjim
8th October 07, 10:43 PM
Yeah, I love how the politicians are always so willing to exploit children to stymie discussion on the state of affairs (even if said discussion is just an excuse for a bitchin' guitar solo.)

NoMan
8th October 07, 11:21 PM
The more pertinent issue is well
1) what can anyone do about china or other dev nations emissions?

That's just stupid.


The United States ranks in GDP pollution as one of the worst in the world, itís as efficient as Uruguay and Madagascar. Britain, Ireland, Denmark, and Switzerland use 2/3 as much energy per dollar of GDP, and Japan uses Ĺ. The state of Wyoming, with only 500,000 people, emits more carbon dioxide than 74 developing countries with a combined population of 396 million. Texas, population 22 million, exceeds 120 developing countries, population 1.2 billion. At the 2006 Davos meeting, oil executies were glad, because global warming opened up new areas for oil drilling.

"Making Globalization Work", Joseph Stiglitz.

Talking about developing countries which don't have the economic capabilities to do anything about emissions while ignoring a large nation that pollutes more than every other developing nation combined is ridiculous.


2) what can you do about volcanic explosions?

Well, ask the experts:


The halide acid HCl has been shown to be effective in destroying ozone; however, the latest studies show that most volcanic HCl is confined to the troposphere (below the stratosphere), where it is washed out by rain. Thus, it never has the opportunity to react with ozone. On the other hand, satellite data after the 1991 eruptions of Mt.Pinatubo (the Philippines) and Mt. Hudson (Chile) showed a 15-20% ozone loss at high latitudes, and a greater than 50% loss over the Antarctic! Thus, it appears that volcanic eruptions can play a significant role in reducing ozone levels. However, it is an indirect role, which cannot be directly attributed to volcanic HCl. Eruption-generated particles, or aerosols, appear to provide surfaces upon which chemical reactions take place. The particles themselves do not contribute to ozone destruction, but they interact with chlorine- and bromine-bearing compounds from human-made CFCs. Fortunately, volcanic particles will settle out of the stratosphere in two or three years, so that the effects of volcanic eruptions on ozone depletion are short lived. Although volcanic aerosols provide a catalyst for ozone depletion, the real culprits in destroying ozone are human-generated CFCs.

And


However, a far greater amount of CO2 is contributed to the atmosphere by human activities each year than by volcanic eruptions. T.M.Gerlach (1991, American Geophysical Union) notes that human-made CO2 are dwarfed the estamated global release of CO2 from volcanoes by at least 150 times.

http://www.geology.sdsu.edu/how_volcanoes_work/climate_effects.html

Global warming is real enough that people are fighting for rights to places where ice is receeding, don't know what more proof you need of it being real, besides documentation by thousands of scientists worldwide.

Of course, any inductive argument has flaws in it, it's the nature of the game. Nonetheless, when you get such a large amount of scientists from such so many different countries it should make you think.

The economic policy is easy enough. Economists overwhelmingly agree greater efficiency is better than worse efficiency... uh.... that's the point of economics, efficiency. Other countries have more efficiency than us. Even Gerald Ford recognized this, and I remember a while ago one of the outgoing Republicans criticized the Bush administration for its wasteful policies. (Texas ranked bottom in air, water, and land waste under Gov. Bush. The irony is the Bush campaign against McCain's 2000 nomination formed the Republicans for Clean Air, which charged McCain with having a polluted state.)

http://www.cleantechblog.com/2007/01/remembering-gerald-ford.html

Is it extreme enough to warrant extreme action is debatable. Is it extreme enough to warrant smarter economic and pollution policies? Yes.

Olorin
9th October 07, 12:29 AM
If you are going to devote time to learning about Jesus, you need to devote an equal amount of time to learning about Odin, Zeus, The Dagda, Buddha, etc.

When a school discusses Christianity it need to be in context to historical events. When I teach about Calvinism, Puritans, the First and Second Great Awakening, etc...I discuss Christian doctrine insofar as it relates to the events discussed in class. A teacher should not bible thump in class, that is not the place for it.

As far as using Al Gore's book to teach global warming, the teachers need to get off their ass and teach it themselves. I hate it when teachers use movies to teach their class.

WarPhalange
9th October 07, 12:42 AM
When a school discusses Christianity it need to be in context to historical events. When I teach about Calvinism, Puritans, the First and Second Great Awakening, etc...I discuss Christian doctrine insofar as it relates to the events discussed in class. A teacher should not bible thump in class, that is not the place for it.

Holy shit, Captain Obvious strikes again!

No, seriously, I don't think there's any controversy about that. Christianity shaped a lot of history, and there's no reason to believe Jesus was magical.


As far as using Al Gore's book to teach global warming, the teachers need to get off their ass and teach it themselves. I hate it when teachers use movies to teach their class.

It was never meant to be a teaching aid. I remember when teachers showed us videos during class, most people would just sleep.

Olorin
9th October 07, 03:28 AM
...most people would just sleep.

Thats why I hate videos as teaching aids.

.

NoMan
9th October 07, 09:31 AM
When a school discusses Christianity it need to be in context to historical events. When I teach about Calvinism, Puritans, the First and Second Great Awakening, etc...I discuss Christian doctrine insofar as it relates to the events discussed in class.

You know you want to use the "Passion" as a teaching aid, DON'T DENY IT!!!!

:biblethum

Religion should be placed in its proper historical context, both the good points and the bad points. Just don't make kids read the Book of Esther and tell you that you're the Queen, because that's wrong.

Dagon Akujin
9th October 07, 12:33 PM
The irony is the Bush campaign against McCain's 2000 nomination formed the Republicans for Clean Air, which charged McCain with having a polluted state.


It also accused McCain with having sex with black people. (http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/articles/2004/03/21/the_anatomy_of_a_smear_campaign/)

jvjim
9th October 07, 12:50 PM
Olorin: are you sure to mention that the Reformation not only changed the church, but also fundamental parts of Western Eurpoean culture as basic as family life and language? The reason we have modern French, German, and to a slightly lesser extent English is a direct result of the works Luther, Calvin, and the compilation of the King James versionof the Bible.