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Shawarma
28th July 03, 06:51 AM
Since the majority of this forum seem to be north american, I'd like to hear your opinion on whether Dubya will win the upcoming election and get another term in office. Will the two wars he has started in his time have a positive or negative impact on his chances?

Akuma
28th July 03, 06:56 AM
No, he's a bit of a warfreak!

I will flame Fatality Gay until he dies of Cancer, AIDS, SARS and terrorism.

cyrijl
28th July 03, 11:52 AM
yea.the dems suck. they nine either have no balls or no sense. and people are too afraid, or stupid to vote third party.

________________________
Aikido is not about fighting. It is about purifying the mind and body - misogi/Aikido is the only fitness activity I know that makes you smile. Alot. You also feel closer to your fellow humans afterwards/----anonymous

Jamoke
28th July 03, 12:03 PM
You bet your ass he'll be re-elected.

Bolverk
28th July 03, 12:04 PM
Let me think a moment here.

William J. Clinton wars: Bosnia, Haiti, Kosovo, Samolia (Technically George H. W. Bush's war but, Clinton fouled it up bad.), Missles into Afghanistan to kill Osama Bin Laden (Got his camel), various strikes into Iraq for violations of no fly zone (Technically George H. W. Bush's war but, Clinton never took it as seriously as he should have).

George W. Bush Wars: Iraq (Technically George H. W. Bush's, but, Dubya got stuck with the hard decision.), Afghanistan as a retaliation for 9-11.

Based on William J. Clinton's record, and the fact that we still have troops in Bosnia after he said they would only be there for a year, I think George W. Bush has a decent chance. Unless the American People hold him to a different standard.

Sincerely,

Knowing it is not enough, we must apply.
Willing is not enough, we must do.

The tax laws are written by men with considerable net worth, and with little understanding of what wage-earners must do to make ends meet.

Jamoke
28th July 03, 12:14 PM
and don't forget Clinton blew up baby food factory's trying to get bin Laden too!

Osiris
28th July 03, 12:22 PM
Clintons "wars" were more like skirmishes. Bushs were real WARS. Trifling one sided and generally unnecessary wars, but wars. Anyway Bush will get reeltected due to the massive stupidity of the american public.

Osiris' about to make you his bitch. August 30th, 2003

cyrijl
28th July 03, 12:32 PM
Clintons "wars" were more like skirmishes. Bushs were real WARS. Trifling one sided and generally unnecessary wars, but wars. Anyway Bush will get reeltected due to the massive stupidity of the american public.
Man, you are confused.
1-How are bush's wars any more one-sided then clinton's
2-Are we supposed to justify military action by the scale? Because clinton did not have the balls enough to fix ANYTHING in the world, his wars are skirmishes? Ask the serbians who dies if they thought the bombing of their houses was a skirmish.
3-Iraq was unnecessary, but somalia wasn't? DO you think we should go into liberia? Why, because black people can't take care of themselves? Going into liberia ahead of ecowas is one of the most racists endeavors one could possible imagine.
4-Massive stupidity of the american people? Well, whether you voted for gore or bush doesn't matter since the two parties and their ability to affect policy are so closely related. I didn't vote for bush and have never voted republican (or evil constitutionalist party, or any other right leaning party), but Gore and the subsequent runners for the next election couldn't even lead a pack of drunk german tourist to a hash-bar in amsterdam with a "Green Amsterdam Hash-bar map", a compass, and a dream.

________________________
Anyone who makes a quick movement near me is going to get kicked in the face----WTDude

Goojeanleans
28th July 03, 12:57 PM
Actually, I think there's a good chance he won't get reelected. When it comes down to it, people vote on an intangible, irrational level that is whether they feel good about what's going on in the country and the world right now.

Maybe it couldn't have been avoided, and was the right thing to do, or had nothing to do with Bush at all, but since Bush has been elected, the twin towers have been destroyed, two countries have been invaded without the capture of the intended target, the economy is lackluster, relations with Europe have tanked, gas prices are up, etc. I think that on a gut level, people don't feel all rosy and optimistic about what's going on right now. I think that is a reason why the Democrats might win with a good candidate. Even though the things Bush has done might have been the right thing to do, he didn't hand out enough candy to make everyone feel good.

Jamoke
28th July 03, 01:06 PM
George W. Bush is the only ONE that had the BALLS to take out Sadaam & the Taliban!

The pussy democrats would have never done such a thing. i hope the fukk Hellary Clintorous runs..oh i pray to GOD she runs. she'll never get elected and that GUARANTEES Bush the second term he'll win anyways...

The Wastrel
28th July 03, 01:08 PM
"Samolia (Technically George H. W. Bush's war but, Clinton fouled it up bad.)"

Well, come now Bolverk. That's not true. The only thing you can blame on Clinton was the withdrawal.

"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - for ever."

Bolverk
28th July 03, 01:43 PM
That is correct Wastrel, after the debacle of losing troops that was broadly televised. It made us look scared, ready to tuck our tail between our legs and run at the first sign of American Soldiers killed in action.

That was Clinton's mistake, especailly after the speeches he made concerning the problems and how he was going to solve them, and how he was not going to be pushed around by criminals and thugs. Then that is exactly what he let happen.

Sincerely,

Knowing it is not enough, we must apply.
Willing is not enough, we must do.

The tax laws are written by men with considerable net worth, and with little understanding of what wage-earners must do to make ends meet.

patfromlogan
28th July 03, 03:51 PM
to cyrijl,
1 US vs the nation of Afghanistan? This was not a police action like some of Clinton's. It is the most powerful nation on earth that spends 10 times more on the military than any other country challenging fucking Afghanistan? Har har... Sounds like me against Tank.
2 Ofcouse you measure military actions by scale. (read the ethical questions in Starship Troopers...)
3 Yes we should go into Liberia. It will be a mess, but we should remove the maniac.
4 Well, let's all read the Federalist Papers and remember the fears the founding fathers had. Simply put the people are too lazy and stupid to pay attention and/or the bad guys will trick the lazy and stupid people.

Anyway to answer the post. Bush was NOT elected. I want to get one of the re-elect Gore bumper stickers.

and Bolverk, "and how he (Clinton) was not going to be pushed around by criminals and thugs..." Jesus, if anything is clear, it is that Clinton is and was a criminal. Why doesn't everyone find the answers to a few questions;
1) Who was flying cocaine out of Honduras in the mid 80s?
2) Where was the money going and what was it financing?
3) What family (hint, the first letter is b) became very very rich at this time?
4) Where did the coke planes land?
5) Who was shot down by the Sandanistas and talked?
6) Who stone walled the investigation of all this corruption in the US House in '86 to protect Bush senior after the word got out (hint, little known Rep from Wyoming whose first letter of his last name starts with C and used to head up Halliburton).

And Bullshido has better educated hipper people on it than the general US population even then it looks like we are wallowing in ignorance and the majority are fucking ignorant sheep and the only hope that Bushco won't get elected is that the economy will continue to suck. As it is hard for the civilian hawks who are running the military policy (by the way the Army brass hates their guts) to know how to run wars, it is hard for the criminals to run the economy; they are too busy stealing.

The Wastrel
28th July 03, 06:17 PM
Bolverk,
The operation was poorly thought from the beginning, and THAT was the fault of Admiral Howe, who developed a personal vendetta against Aidid, and failed completely to understand the nature of local tribalism. He effectively waged a genocide campaign against the Habr Gidr, and by doing so made it certain that dealing with Aidid would NOT finish the war between them and the Darod.

When the whole thing was a mess from the start, redeemed only by the amazing performance of the servicemen who fought there, it's merely spin to blame it on Clinton.

"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - for ever."

Edited by - The Wastrel on July 28 2003 18:19:50

Matt W.
28th July 03, 06:56 PM
Bush was NOT elected.

*sigh*

Yes he was. He was legally elected. You may not like it, but it's true. I live in Florida. Here's how it went down.

After the first count, Bush had won. There was a mandatory recount, which Bush also won. Then they wanted to start in on the hand recounts. Bush was against that because there were no standards for measuring this recount, they wanted to do it only in Dem strongholds, and there was little grounds to do it in the first place.

The entirely democratic/liberal Florida Supreme Court ruled they could do the hand recounts anway. So they did, but were unable to get it done in the time mandated by law. The FLorida Supremes tried to over-rule that law and the US Supreme court (5-4 LIBERAL, last I checked) finally put an end to it.

Of the four unofficial recounts by independent news sources that have come out since, Bush was found to be the winner in all but one (which basically counted any unclear vote as a vote for Gore).

Bush won. Get over it.

Regards,
Matt

Carl: So, where we goin'?
Lenny: Ape Island. I hate Ape Island!
Carl: Why's that?
Lenny: It's full of giant apes. I wish we were going to Candy Apple Island!
Carl: Why? What's on Candy Apple Island?
Lenny: Apes. But they're not as big.

The Wastrel
28th July 03, 07:13 PM
The only reasonable complaint that anyone can have is that the entire American electoral system produces distortion. And that's an undeniniable fact. Unfortunately, that IS the system that we have, and there are even some legitimate arguments that could be made in its defense.

"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - for ever."

MuayThaiBri67
28th July 03, 07:39 PM
Yes, he will be reelected. The Democrate really don't have any agenda right now, except for just trying to scare people. They just have such a personal hatetard of Bush, and that will be there downfall. They are catering to much to the far left wackos, and people will remember that. The only way I see Bush losing would be if there was some kind of scandel, but I doubt it will happen. And the Democrates trying to harp on 16 words in his state of the union address aren't going to do no matter how much they whine about it.

"You can't outrun death forever, but you can make the bastard work for it"

The Wastrel
28th July 03, 08:19 PM
16 words? That's priceless..really. I mean, I'm no partisan, but you're just repeating Republican spin. Those are "16 words" that implicated two nations in the illegal acquisition of nuclear weapons material. That's not trivial at all. Here's another insignificant remark from history:

"We should seek by all means in our power to avoid war, by analysing possible causes, by trying to remove them, by discussion in a spirit of collaboration and good will."

Just 31 words.



"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - for ever."

Choke
28th July 03, 10:10 PM
Dems don't have a strong enough leader to rally behind. Which sucks for them because it's their election to win.

If they focused on the economy and unemployment they will win. Hands down. Money is the most important thing to American interests. But instead they keep on calling Bush a Nazi and trying to miscontrue and challenge everything he does or says into this insidious plot to crown himself Grand Chancellor of the Universe and force the working class into a series of wars for intergalactic supremecy.

Dems need to focus on domestic issues instead of fighting a losing battle over foreign policy.

Osiris
28th July 03, 11:03 PM
What Pat said.

"3 Yes we should go into Liberia. It will be a mess, but we should remove the maniac."

Maniacs. They all need a proper beatdown.

Osiris' about to make you his bitch. August 30th, 2003

FingerorMoon?
28th July 03, 11:04 PM
Pat
- don't tease, answer the questions you've posted.

I want to read :)

Vargas
28th July 03, 11:33 PM
Pat, you really need to get off this Central/South American thing. Yes, I hate chickenhawks as much as you, but c'mon, this conspiracy thing is getting tired. Yes, the Reagan Administration had a lot of crooks in it. So did Carter's, so did Clinton's, so does GW's. Do you see a pattern here? Presidents are surrounded by dishonest people, it's like saying the sky is blue. Some Presidents handle their crooks better than others, but they all have scandals. Shit, Jimmy Carter had to fire my dad's second cousin for getting caught up in a banking scandal. Bert Lance finally beat the rap, but by then the damage was already done.

Here's the deal. More people are registered Democrats than registered Republicans. By the math, all the Dems have to do is not step on their collective dicks and they will probably win. Example? If Al Gore had won his home state, he would be president now. Fuck Florida, that's why he lost and the DNC knows it. End of story. If whoever the Democrats run avoids doing anything stupid, they will win. Sure, Bush could rise or fall depending on what happens with the economy or Iraq/Afghanistan but that stuff tends to cancel out in the end. Look what happened to his dad, all that political capital he made in Iraq squandered one year. So it's the Democrats election to win or lose. Of course, if Ralph Nader, the Scrouge of the DNC, runs again, I have no idea what will happen. Believe me, if the Democrats could get away with it, Nader would be one dead motherfucker. He does nothing but give the Republicans a leg up in national elections.

"Go cry about it Vargas. Aren't you late for your shift at McDonald's?"

elipson
29th July 03, 12:31 AM
George W. Bush is the only ONE that had the BALLS to take out Sadaam & the Taliban!
Nobody ever called Dubya a coward; just really really really dumb.

If the US keeps taking lossed in Iraq, it might be the end of Bush. His approval is slipping big time.

Matt W.
29th July 03, 06:10 AM
His approval is slipping big time.

Cite please!

Matt

Carl: So, where we goin'?
Lenny: Ape Island. I hate Ape Island!
Carl: Why's that?
Lenny: It's full of giant apes. I wish we were going to Candy Apple Island!
Carl: Why? What's on Candy Apple Island?
Lenny: Apes. But they're not as big.

Justme
29th July 03, 01:13 PM
Bush should be elected again. I believe him to be a straight shooter. Wastrel, the system works fine. The electoral college just offset the union and geriatric voting blocks. I still believe Bush will go down as a one of our great presidents. What concerns me is whether we are paying attention to what we are asking of our troops in Irag. Moral seems to need a boost.

Vargas
29th July 03, 02:35 PM
Hey Justme, welcome back! I had read somewhere that you took a sabbatical from this place. Glad to see some of the ex-mil crowd still around.

And you're right, morale in the 3rd ID is subterranean these days. At least they are will rotate those poor bastards out in a month or so. If I meet anyone from the 3rd ID, 101st or 1st AD in the next year or two, they get a free drink on the Vargas.

"Go cry about it Vargas. Aren't you late for your shift at McDonald's?"

Justme
29th July 03, 02:40 PM
Robert Dowdy is buried in the same cemetery as my parents. I am going to make a point to visit his grave. WHAT a sad story! Like the situation or not, we are losing some VERY good people. We, all of us, have to make their sacrifice worth something.

Justme
29th July 03, 02:48 PM
Oh, thanks Vargas. I have missed the discussions with you guys...Oh, and you to JKDChick...Ah, your kind of like one of the guys... I guess.... Hows your ankle.....I'll just close now.

elipson
29th July 03, 02:56 PM
Cite please!

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/07/20/bush.poll.ap/index.html

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/07/21/timep.war.home.tm/index.html

Omar
29th July 03, 05:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:

*sigh*

Yes he was. He was legally elected. You may not like it, but it's true. I live in Florida. Here's how it went down.. .
. . . Bush won. Get over it.

Regards,
Matt

Carl: So, where we goin'?
Lenny: Ape Island. I hate Ape Island!
Carl: Why's that?
Lenny: It's full of giant apes. I wish we were going to Candy Apple Island!
Carl: Why? What's on Candy Apple Island?
Lenny: Apes. But they're not as big.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote>

...the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders...tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials


Edited by - omar on July 29 2003 21:44:26

The Wastrel
29th July 03, 05:49 PM
Justme,
Like I said, there are some good arguments to be made for the electoral college. You're thinking of it quite differently from me. I think the major function of it is the balancing of large states against small ones with college votes.

"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - for ever."

Omar
29th July 03, 05:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:

*sigh*

Yes he was. He was legally elected. You may not like it, but it's true. I live in Florida. Here's how it went down. . .

. . . Bush won. Get over it.

Regards,
Matt

Carl: So, where we goin'?
Lenny: Ape Island. I hate Ape Island!
Carl: Why's that?
Lenny: It's full of giant apes. I wish we were going to Candy Apple Island!
Carl: Why? What's on Candy Apple Island?
Lenny: Apes. But they're not as big.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote>

*sigh*

He wasn't really LEGALLY elected. The time limit you mentioned for the recount . . . don't you remember WHO set the time limit? But that's not the biggest crime. There were the 1000's of voters illegally purged from the roles in democratic districts. Even the indepedant party contracted to come up with the list of names said that the criteria were too broad but Jeb pushed it through and 1000's of legally registered mostly black voters were purged from the roles for having names that resembled those of convicted felons. More voters were illegally denied their right to vote than the margin of loss for Gore.

For a good blow by blow of the corruption in 2000 rent "Unprecidented". It's a documentary of the 2000 election .

...the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders...tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials


Edited by - omar on July 29 2003 21:46:28

Matt W.
29th July 03, 08:01 PM
Elipson, Way to come through with the cite! I'm glad you did because it reveals that his approval rating isn't really dropping (not steadily, anyway). 54% in Feb, 55% today, with a spike up into the 60's during March through May (hmm, wonder why that was?).

Omar,
The time limit you mentioned for the recount . . . don't you remember WHO set the time limit?

Yes, THE LAW. Katherine Harris had discretion to overide that if whe wanted to, but why would she? But the initial time limit is in the law.


There were the 1000's of voters illegally purged from the roles in democratic districts.

The idea that black voters were intentionally disenfranchised is a lie. Democrats claimed that, of course, but those claims were unsubstantiated. In fact, such claims were even looked into by local media and they found no evidence for that whatsoever. (You do know that Jessie Jackson is a liar, right?)

If you think you can prove otherwise, do so.


For a good blow by blow of the corruption in 2000...

I am already familiar with the corruption of the Dems as they tried to steal the election. I was here. I didn't just hear the sound bites on the national news. I was following it in the local media. I was reading it in the local papers. Bush won, clearly. And no claim by the Dems of corruption was ever substantiated.

Regards,
Matt

Carl: So, where we goin'?
Lenny: Ape Island. I hate Ape Island!
Carl: Why's that?
Lenny: It's full of giant apes. I wish we were going to Candy Apple Island!
Carl: Why? What's on Candy Apple Island?
Lenny: Apes. But they're not as big.

Omar
29th July 03, 10:32 PM
Save your mockery for someone else. The corruption of the Dems as they tried to steal the election? You're rebuttal is basically, "I'm rubber you're glue..." I'm sure we can agree there is plenty of corruption to go around but I sited specifics, YOU said, in not so many words, "no YOU tried to steal the election". Jesse Jackson? Relevance?

I had to do a little web searching to find out what you meant by 'disenfranchised'. In regular speech it just mean alienated. I didn't realize 'disenfranchised' had become a new euphimism for 'denied the right to vote'.

Jesse Jackson? Relevance? He's a liar? So? I don't know how he's involved as being a jewish white boy I don't go to many anti-semetic baptist pep-rallys. Something about being referred to as a 'heimie' just grates on me.

You are on very shaky ground claiming she did what the LAW required:

She stated, “Therefore, unless the discrepancy …. is caused by incorrect election parameters or software errors, the county board is not authorized to manually recount ballots for the entire county.”

This is wrong. a hand recount needs no misconduct, no errors, no machine problems, no fraud- the only thing it requires is a candidate’s or campaign manager’s request within 72 hours of the election. That’s what the law on manual recounts says.

Against state law, she accepted the first count from Nassau County (which had a discrepancy) not the machine recount (+52 Gore). The Miami-Dade board, didn’t even send in the 157 votes they found for Gore in the small portion they did count before they were “shut down” by Tom DeLay’s Cong. rioters.

According to the London Guardian, Harris erroneously booted 9000-12,000 voters (disproportionately black) off the rolls for supposedly being felons 5 months before the election – only 8000 were reinstated. Against 2 court rulings she removed out-of-state felons who had had their rights restored

There's plenty more. Please come back and fill me in on the details of how the Dems broke the law in 2000.


...the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders...tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

Omar
29th July 03, 10:42 PM
I guess my view was a bit slanted as I wasn't catching it from soundbites either. As I was out of the country at the time, I was catching it on the international news and most of what I know about it is from teh research I've done since I got back. Magazine articles, documentary film, web searches etc. Are you suggesting that local papers would be MORE objective?

...the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders...tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

Omar
29th July 03, 10:44 PM
Oh yeah, someone mentioned the 'liberal court' decision. . . .

This gem from that radical bastion of subversive action, CNN.com:

http://www.cnn.com/2000/LAW/12/10/scalia.stevens/

In breaking with the majority, Justice Stevens wrote a forceful dissenting opinion in which he said, "Preventing the recount from being completed will inevitably cast a cloud on the legitimacy of the election." He continued, "(T)he Florida court's ruling reflects the basic principle, inherent in our Constitution and our democracy, that every legal vote should be counted."

Stevens' dissent prompted Justice Scalia to take the unusual step of issuing a concurring opinion in connection with the stay in which he responded, "The counting of votes that are of questionable legality does, in my view, threaten irreparable harm to petitioner [George W. Bush] and to the country, by casting a cloud upon what he claims to be the legitimacy of his election. Count first and rule upon legality afterwards, is not a recipe for producing election results that have the public acceptance that democratic stability requires."


...the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders...tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials


Edited by - omar on July 29 2003 22:45:42

Vargas
29th July 03, 11:48 PM
Boy, that horse is getting deader by the minute. Or, as I read somewhere, I guess there's no kitty so flat that you can't back over it a few more times. Christ, why not drag the O.J. trial back into the light while you're at it? Throw in Elian Gonzalez for good measure. In other words, GET OVER IT!!!

That applies to righties and lefties equally. For chrissake, I was one of those infamous Florida military absentee voters and even I can hardly stand to talk about it any more. Enough already. . .




"Go cry about it Vargas. Aren't you late for your shift at McDonald's?"

The Wastrel
30th July 03, 12:12 AM
Disenfrachised has a greater meaning, and is best used to refer to denial of rights at an institutional level.

"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - for ever."

patfromlogan
30th July 03, 04:22 AM
"My motivation is my respect for the blood shed by patriots protecting the Constitution for the United States of America against "all enemies, foreign and domestic.""

In that quote 'domestic' is emphasized. It's from http://www.sanityclause.com/WhatCanTheyDo.html and I'll warn you that the water gets real deep at that end of the legal/genius/hippie/libertarian side of the pool.

First Omar, how can you be so narrow minded as to avoid anti-semetic Baptist pep rallies? :^)

I do agree with Vargas, we should stop beating that poor dead horse, Nixon's Revenge (Rehnquist is da man!) gave that crook the White House, and all I can do is start counting down to armagedon.

and Justme, so glad you are back. I hope nothing I did made your decision to be away easier.

and Vargas, yes Clinton's a bum, though basically I like the joke "Clinton screwed an intern, Bush is screwing the whole country." I got into a talk with a right wing guy and he ended up telling me lots about Slick Willy. My cousin from Arkansas has a rather low opinion too. It seems amongst some the debate isn't if Billary are crooked murdering mafioso types, it's just how high is the body count? I did run my paranoid rant by my Jewish (kinda white boy-he loves Jesse too, Omar) hisorian buddy and he said that the CIA would not have run the coke; they would have known about it and the funds were needed by the contras, but they wouldn't have got involved. So just maybe I'm seeing evil conspiracy where there is just evil. He then went on to tell me about how on 9/10 Bush and Baker met with Osama's brother and that on 9/12 twenty something Osamas were flown back home. This guy is an expert on the Rothchilds and such and he sees no conspiracy there either, those guys were just out to make lots of money. He said his real fear is that the enthnic/religious/tribal problems of the 21st century are not going to be solved with 20th century nation/state solutions and that the last time things got stressed bad facism and communism were seen as the solutions by people who lost faith with the at-that-time current institutions.

"Pat, you really need to get off this Central/South American thing." Well el pueblo unido jamas sera vencido to you kid. See, the mistakes that got us into Vietnam make a kind of sense in the cold war history of the time, and the slaughter and intervention in Central/South America makes sense in the overall history of US dominance. They both make me pissed off. But what we are doing now in the Middle East fills me with dread.

If the economy doesn't tank, we've got four more years.

ps. bye for a while, I'm on the road again. (speaking of which I have tickets for Dead/Dylan tonite in Tampa and last week the Dead toured with Willy Nelson-those would have been some shows!)











Edited by - patfromlogan on July 30 2003 04:45:05

Justme
30th July 03, 07:26 AM
Thanks Pat... Asia chi brought me back.

Matt W.
30th July 03, 08:00 AM
Save your mockery for someone else.

It's okay, I have plenty to go around.


The corruption of the Dems as they tried to steal the election? You're rebuttal is basically, "I'm rubber you're glue..."

Guess you missed it when I responded to each of your points. Guess you also missed the subtle mockery in mentioning the Dem's corruption. I'll try to be more obvious in the future.


I'm sure we can agree there is plenty of corruption to go around but I sited specifics,

So did I. Go back and reread my post if you need to, which apparently you do.


Jesse Jackson? Relevance?

Did you stop reading after my first paragraph? Heh, heh. Because you really got stuck on this. You mention it twice! Heh, heh.

The relevance is simple and clear. Jessie Jackson was one of the liberals whining about black voters being disenfranchised.


I had to do a little web searching to find out what you meant by 'disenfranchised'. In regular speech it just mean alienated. I didn't realize 'disenfranchised' had become a new euphimism for 'denied the right to vote'.

*chuckle* Save your scorn for the Dems. It was their word! They were the ones that first used it when they started whining about losing the election. And the media immediately picked up on it, of course.


You are on very shaky ground claiming she did what the LAW required:

The fact that you say "shaky ground" instead of simply claiming she broke the law means you realize she didn't. She followed the law. All she did was not excercise her discretion to help the Dems. But she was consistently and safely within the law.

{QUOTE]This is wrong. a hand recount needs no misconduct, no errors, no machine problems, no fraud- the only thing it requires is a candidate’s or campaign manager’s request within 72 hours of the election.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote>

You'll forgive me if I don't take your word for this. No offense. I won't ask you for a cite, though, because I know how frustrating it can be to try and find old record of what ahppened. I swear, I'd see a newspaper article on something (regarding the election) once, and then never hear of it again! But since I believe my side of things can be proved, I'll do some research myself and get back to you. Give me some time though.


Against state law...

Harris never went against state law.


According to the London Guardian

LOL!! The LONDON GUARDIAN??? Was that the same paper that published the editorial headline "Don't Push Bush On Us"? Heh, heh. Mmmmm, I think their information is fairly suspect.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Please come back and fill me in on the details of how the Dems broke the law in 2000.[/QUOTE]

Will do!

Regards,
Matt

Carl: So, where we goin'?
Lenny: Ape Island. I hate Ape Island!
Carl: Why's that?
Lenny: It's full of giant apes. I wish we were going to Candy Apple Island!
Carl: Why? What's on Candy Apple Island?
Lenny: Apes. But they're not as big.

Omar
30th July 03, 11:44 AM
Just a quick welcome back to Justme for now. Sorry Vargas to kick the dead horse. I never got to go through the agony the first time as I was in China when it went down. I just got lots of ribbing about how I couldn't figure out who the president of my own country was.

Pat,
I probably mentioned Jesse twice by mistake because I kept rearanging my post before posting it and I always use the little 'quick reply' box so if the post is long it's hard to keep track. Anyways, his whining never made the international news, so I never heard it. And don't worry, I've saved plenty of scorn for the Dems. Even if I lean to the left, how can I whole heartedly support such a bunch of pansies? I still don't see what crimes youve referred too though.

Thanks, Wastrel, for clearing up disenfranchised. I figured it out anyways after seeing how they were using it in the news articles. I still think it's a stupid euphimism. And confusing, since it still gets plenty of use as 'alienated'.

...the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders...tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials