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Mas
21st September 07, 05:58 PM
From the Youtube description:

Andrew Meyer, a student at UF (University of Florida) is Tased after asking John Kerry some questions. He coined the phrase "Dont Tase me Bro!"

y3FFnpS-eYA

Police brutality or lulz, you decide!

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
21st September 07, 06:02 PM
Why is it police brutality?

Mas
21st September 07, 06:08 PM
Hey, I said you decide.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
21st September 07, 06:13 PM
I think your question is a little loaded.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
21st September 07, 06:14 PM
Mas, drunkard or Jew? You decide!

Mas
21st September 07, 06:18 PM
Ah I see, much like the video, I am both...

You're a sage.

knutorious
21st September 07, 06:21 PM
Lulz. J Stew_rt said it best, this was a clash of police force and college deuchebagery.

Steve
21st September 07, 06:24 PM
Yeah, I saw that on his show Wednesday.

knutorious
21st September 07, 06:27 PM
I also liked how one of the RE vids was a girl who said the audiences needed to educate themselves and seek enlightenment, read a book, get educated, blah blah, then provided a link to an antisemitic site.

SpringHeeledJack
21st September 07, 07:03 PM
HELP!!! HELP!!! HELP!!! SOMEBODY FUCKING HELP ME!!!! OW!!! OW!!! OW!!!"

Lulz.

Kein Haar
21st September 07, 07:10 PM
I saw a kimura opening.

Stick
21st September 07, 09:08 PM
It really pisses me off that there are protests over this.

Seriously, jack asses are saying things like "why did no one do anything to help him?!" I don't know, maybe because it was a half dozen cops doing their job in removing a disruptive jackass that was going out of his way to get attention- seriously, he cut in line, talked over Kerry as he began to answer the first question, used language inappropriate to the forum, did not take the hint when the moderator cut his mic, and struggled when police began to escort him out- this is not police brutality, this is a text book escalation of the situation by that one lone jackass. It is no one's fault but his own that he chose to fuck with cops, if he hadn't started screaming and kicking and making a fuss he probably would've been escorted to the door and asked to leave, there would've been no cuffs, charges, anything, but instead he had to "fight the power".

Also, that is an edited down video that doesn't follow them as they leave the building, he shows absolutely no physical effects from being tazed only a few minutes later- maybe because, ya know, tazing doesn't do real damage- and is babbling "oh my god they're going to take me off and kill me! Someone follow me please or they're gonna kill me (to the cops) people know where I am, you can't just make me disappear, you aren't gonna kill me, are you?"

He's not a political anything, he's a jackass. And this reaction to "police brutality" is playing right into his jackass hands; every "protestor" (see: college kids who didn't want to go to class) that showed up at the campus PD is a party to jackassery and deserves little more than scorn and derision.

DAYoung
22nd September 07, 12:59 AM
He said 'ow'.

That's like a dog saying 'bark'.

When something really hurts, you don't say 'ow', you say 'aaaaaarghh'.

And that's if you say anything at all.

/Stoic

bob
22nd September 07, 01:16 AM
He said 'ow'.

That's like a dog saying 'bark'.

When something really hurts, you don't say 'ow', you say 'aaaaaarghh'.

And that's if you say anything at all.

/Stoic

Remind me to test this on you.

DAYoung
22nd September 07, 04:19 AM
Remind me to test this on you.

You needn't bother. I manage to hurt myself well enough.

I might have re-injured my neck today, smacking my head forcefully into a thick Magnolia branch...

...while admiring a larger-than-average mint leaf.

Yiktin Voxbane
22nd September 07, 06:15 AM
mint leaf.

the devil, they say, is in the detail ....

Kudos Sir .

Cullion
22nd September 07, 06:21 AM
It really pisses me off that there are protests over this.

Seriously, jack asses are saying things like "why did no one do anything to help him?!" I don't know, maybe because it was a half dozen cops doing their job in removing a disruptive jackass that was going out of his way to get attention- seriously,

Because in america it's the job of police officers to remove people who annoy politicians with impertinent questions.

Liffguard
22nd September 07, 09:05 AM
Meh, I'm not going to address whether or not he should have been removed. However, given that the police had a five-to-one advantage over him, were they not able to successfully subdue him without a taser or could they just not be bothered?

Scrapper
22nd September 07, 10:13 AM
Grapple with resisting moron...potential injury to officers and moron= lawsuits.

Taser= Moron stops resisting, no injuries or lawsuits.

Cops are trained to use the damn thing because it is less risky than brawling. I can take a guy down and get cuffs on him, but there is no guarantee i won't bruise him or dislocate his shoulder. Tase him and he gets real compliant with no risk to ayone. That's why they ave 'em.

Cullion
22nd September 07, 10:19 AM
American used to enshrine the right of morons to ask politicians whatever they wanted in public fora. He had no weapons and presented no threat of violence.
He didn't start resisting until the cops grabbed him as was his right given that whole US constitution thing

You're all too subconciously shocked about the obvious fact that cops now act as VIP muscle to address this.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
22nd September 07, 11:32 AM
Are you saying this guy was within his rights? Because he wasn't. He wasn't there to make any point but to take attention for himself at the expense of the rest of the audience.

Mas
22nd September 07, 11:39 AM
It is quite obvious the guy was creating a possible situation simply for the drama and furthermore he was not on public property.

Like a bar, he was kicked out because he was being a disruptive jackass.

Riddeck
22nd September 07, 12:04 PM
Grapple with resisting moron...potential injury to officers and moron= lawsuits.

Taser= Moron stops resisting, no injuries or lawsuits.

Cops are trained to use the damn thing because it is less risky than brawling. I can take a guy down and get cuffs on him, but there is no guarantee i won't bruise him or dislocate his shoulder. Tase him and he gets real compliant with no risk to ayone. That's why they ave 'em.

He simply did nothing that would give any of those officers the right to put him under arrest. While he should have just been calm when he asked the questions, because, John Kerry should be on the spot for things mentioned (Skull and Bones, no shit?), but his reaction was a bit rough. He probably expected to be hassled, but not at that level.

However, the bottom line is he did nothing wrong, exercised his first amendment. If he did in fact cut in line, to get to the mic, or whatever the rest of the video unedited would show, I imagine my opinion might vary for the details, but the point would remain the same.

He did nothing arrest able, and I would live the American Dream by suing the shit out of those cops.

Specially for fuckin tasering me.


Are you saying this guy was within his rights? Because he wasn't. He wasn't there to make any point but to take attention for himself at the expense of the rest of the audience

By all means, explain this one? He was at an event where questions are to be asked, and he did just that. He did not ask surface retard questions like "Were you sad that you lost the Presidency", he asked something a little more important. He should have followed up by calling John Kerry out for being distant cousins of G.W. but he is prolly unaware of that.

Notice that Kerry kept talking while this thing was going down? He made his point, but reaction to apprehension was terrible. He should have remained calm, even while askin his questions.

Riddeck
22nd September 07, 12:05 PM
It is quite obvious the guy was creating a possible situation simply for the drama and furthermore he was not on public property.

Like a bar, he was kicked out because he was being a disruptive jackass.


Well no shit, you think he is going to be able to approach and ask John Kerry ANY fucking questions anywhere fucking else?

Be real.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
22nd September 07, 12:14 PM
By all means, explain this one? He was at an event where questions are to be asked, and he did just that. He did not ask surface retard questions like "Were you sad that you lost the Presidency", he asked something a little more important. He should have followed up by calling John Kerry out for being distant cousins of G.W. but he is prolly unaware of that.

Notice that Kerry kept talking while this thing was going down? He made his point, but reaction to apprehension was terrible. He should have remained calm, even while askin his questions.

He took the microphone and refused to surrender it to the next member of the audience. The point was to ask Kerry questions, not make a political statement (if you want to call it that) at the expense of everyone else's curiosity.


He should have followed up by calling John Kerry out for being distant cousins of G.W. but he is prolly unaware of that.

And how is this not a "surface retarded question"?

Lu Tze
22nd September 07, 12:39 PM
He took the microphone and refused to surrender it to the next member of the audience. The point was to ask Kerry questions, not make a political statement (if you want to call it that) at the expense of everyone else's curiosity.So he was being a dick. What was he arrested for?

Edit: I am actually genuinely curious.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
22nd September 07, 12:48 PM
being so disruptive is a misdemeanor.

Lu Tze
22nd September 07, 01:19 PM
Okay, so after a bit of digging it seems that 1. that isn't the full video, 2. the guy is a deliberate provocateur who was most probably trolling for that overreaction.

That doesn't change the fact that he fucking well succeeded in his trolling though. It's pretty depressing how the police are very quick to deploy the taser, since we're getting it over here pretty soon.

Cullion
22nd September 07, 01:42 PM
Are you saying this guy was within his rights? Because he wasn't. He wasn't there to make any point but to take attention for himself at the expense of the rest of the audience.

That's actually within his rights as regarding 'do cops have the right to drag him away' thing, as far as your constitution goes.

Cullion
22nd September 07, 01:43 PM
He took the microphone and refused to surrender it to the next member of the audience. The point was to ask Kerry questions, not make a political statement (if you want to call it that) at the expense of everyone else's curiosity.



And how is this not a "surface retarded question"?

The fact you think this is an issue for police to physically intervene shows how close your country is to pseudo-consensual tyranny.

Make no mistake, the UK is already there.

You aren't going to like it when you fully get it.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
22nd September 07, 02:01 PM
Cullion: he wasn't on public property. Whoever owned the place didn't even need to let him in the door if they didn't want to.

Cullion
22nd September 07, 02:04 PM
Cullion: he wasn't on public property. Whoever owned the place didn't even need to let him in the door if they didn't want to.

I'm glad you agree that free speech ends when you're not on state-owned property, like a college campus. I look forward to seeing you support the right of fish-and-chip shop owners in the UK not to serve asians.

Idiot.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
22nd September 07, 02:44 PM
Free speech doesn't end on private property, your right to be there does. Don't put words in my mouth and cut this devil's advocate shit out.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
22nd September 07, 02:56 PM
Be honest Cullion: Do you like to rub 1984 on your chest while you post this crap? Do you play devil's advocate with younger men because you can't afford phone sex?

Cullion
22nd September 07, 02:59 PM
Free speech doesn't end on private property, your right to be there does. Don't put words in my mouth and cut this devil's advocate shit out.

The fact you think I'm playing 'devil's advocate' when I point out that cops removing somebody forcibly from a university auditorium when they peaceably question a politician is sorta fucked up, shows how fucking dumb you are.

Cullion
22nd September 07, 02:59 PM
Be honest Cullion: Do you like to rub 1984 on your chest while you post this crap? Do you play devil's advocate with younger men because you can't afford phone sex?

Be honest MJS, do you think anybody was genuinely glad you weren't dead when you and Sirc finally fessed up to your joint troll?

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
22nd September 07, 03:05 PM
The fact you think I'm playing 'devil's advocate' when I point out that cops removing somebody forcibly from a university auditorium when they peaceably question a politician is sorta fucked up, shows how fucking dumb you are.

He was disrupting a rally so he could get attention and taking time away from the rest of the audience to ask their own questions. That's not protected under anything.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
22nd September 07, 03:06 PM
Be honest MJS, do you think anybody was genuinely glad you weren't dead when you and Sirc finally fessed up to your joint troll?

I asked you first.

Cullion
22nd September 07, 03:07 PM
He was disrupting a rally so he could get attention and taking time away from the rest of the audience to ask their own questions. That's not protected under anything.

Yes it is, fucking dumbass.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
22nd September 07, 03:08 PM
Under what, then? Please be more specific than "your constitution".

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
22nd September 07, 03:11 PM
And if you don't want me to assume you're playing devil's advocate maybe you should stop using it as an excuse every single time you act like a moron.

DAYoung
22nd September 07, 03:35 PM
Be honest Cullion: Do you like to rub 1984 on your chest while you post this crap? Do you play devil's advocate with younger men because you can't afford phone sex?

That's pretty good.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
22nd September 07, 03:37 PM
Are you surprised?

DAYoung
22nd September 07, 03:43 PM
Are you surprised?

It was above-average. You can get into a rut sometimes.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
22nd September 07, 03:47 PM
Would say it had more of an earthy or woody flavor to it?

Sun Wukong
22nd September 07, 04:57 PM
It was above-average. You can get into a rut sometimes.

Which brings up a good point. DAYoung, why the hell are you in such a good mood all the time? I mean seriously, I lose my shit on a daily basis.

DAYoung
22nd September 07, 05:02 PM
Would say it had more of an earthy or woody flavor to it?

I would have said it was marked by your usual pepper, with hints of chocolate and berries.

Question!
22nd September 07, 05:02 PM
DAYoung is probably still on meds.

DAYoung
22nd September 07, 05:03 PM
Which brings up a good point. DAYoung, why the hell are you in such a good mood all the time? I mean seriously, I lose my shit on a daily basis.

I've a very violent temper. Which is why I try to rein it in at every opportunity.

DAYoung
22nd September 07, 05:06 PM
DAYoung is probably still on meds.

http://nbcf.org.au/content/upload/images/getinvolved/shopping/JnJ_Meds32_RegSup-lo(1).jpg

Cullion
22nd September 07, 05:16 PM
Under what, then? Please be more specific than "your constitution".

Freedom of speech. Right to free assembly. Freedom from cruel and unusual punishiment. Not that you have any idea what real punishment is you spoiled little shit.

ironlurker
22nd September 07, 05:37 PM
Not that you have any idea what real punishment is
http://images.rottentomatoes.com/images/movie/coverv/37/105437.jpg
:suicide:

Cullion
22nd September 07, 06:31 PM
http://images.rottentomatoes.com/images/movie/coverv/37/105437.jpg
:suicide:

Cunt.

Yiktin Voxbane
22nd September 07, 06:40 PM
Beautifully put Sir .

Wordsmithed to a level of perfection ne'er seen before .

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
22nd September 07, 06:48 PM
Which brings up a good point. DAYoung, why the hell are you in such a good mood all the time? I mean seriously, I lose my shit on a daily basis.

Because it is more human to laugh at life than to lament it.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
22nd September 07, 06:48 PM
Freedom of speech. Right to free assembly. Freedom from cruel and unusual punishiment. Not that you have any idea what real punishment is you spoiled little shit.

Could you please explain why these freedoms are protected in this context?

Cullion
22nd September 07, 06:48 PM
Which brings up a good point. DAYoung, why the hell are you in such a good mood all the time? I mean seriously, I lose my shit on a daily basis.

He heckles us about the importance of well considered moderation then does a few lines, necks a bottle of cheap champagne-imitation, fucks and then slices-up a 'ho every evening before he gets back to his wife and kids.

Cullion
22nd September 07, 06:51 PM
Could you please explain why these freedoms are protected in this context?

Could you please explain to me why you think this context would make them not protected?

In fact, save it. I'm fucking flabbergasted that a self-professed liberal would watch that and think 'nyak nyak nyak, nice body armour.. nyak that's ok because I disagreed with him'

No more excuses please. Just fucking sit and think about what you just applauded. srsly.

DAYoung
22nd September 07, 07:02 PM
He heckles us about the importance of well considered moderation then does a few lines, necks a bottle of cheap champagne-imitation, fucks and then slices-up a 'ho every evening before he gets back to his wife and kids.

Huey Louis' work is underestimated.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
22nd September 07, 07:16 PM
Could you please explain to me why you think this context would make them not protected?

Do you think Phrost has to respect our freedom of speech just because he's an American? This guy being tasered is no different from our spammers being banned.


nyak that's ok because I disagreed with him'

Funny, because I think the only reason you're so upset is because it was police tasering him.

Cullion
22nd September 07, 08:26 PM
Do you think Phrost has to respect our freedom of speech just because he's an American? This guy being tasered is no different from our spammers being banned.

You fucking idiot. You repugnant fucking idiot. If you think cops waiting eagerly to taser students asking politicians a question on a college campus is the same as phrost banning spammers then I obviously wasn't fucking your mother hard enough, because you're certainly no child of mine.

Not any more, anyway.



Funny, because I think the only reason you're so upset is because it was police tasering him.

Funny, because if it was Pinkerton guards doing it, you'd be going fucking apeshit.

MTVIdiot.

Riddeck
22nd September 07, 08:31 PM
He was using words. Weather he was out of line in the way he presented them, nothing he could say short of "I have a bomb and a gun, and I am going to kill you" gives the police any right to even put a hand on him.

Matter of fact, he does not even have to say a single word to those cops, if he had actually planned this lil stunt better. And yes, it is a little stunt. There are important questions to be asked, and he had the opportunity.

He made himself look like an ass.

As for the cops tazering him, he should have stopped resisting, and just settled it in court. He would have probably gotten a lawsuit, and those police might have been punished. They might not have tazered him, but then again, the police may want you to act out so they can punish you (Over in Canada, http://www.infowars.com/articles/ps/spp_montebello_police_accused_using_aegnt_provocat eurs.htm)

But again, he did it wrong.

As far as his rights go. Yes. Freedom of speech. He is allowed to ask what he wants, that is the entire purpose of that event, I imagine. It was not a rally of any sorts, was it?

I would have just remained a bit calmer, and asked the questions, within the format guidelines, for the evening.

And Cullion, thank you for pointing out MJS flawed train of thought on this one. He will be one of those who enjoy the control that will be put on him.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
22nd September 07, 08:56 PM
You fucking idiot. You repugnant fucking idiot. If you think cops waiting eagerly to taser students asking politicians a question on a college campus is the same as phrost banning spammers then I obviously wasn't fucking your mother hard enough, because you're certainly no child of mine.

Excuse me, but when did you establish that he was within his rights?


And Cullion, thank you for pointing out MJS flawed train of thought on this one. He will be one of those who enjoy the control that will be put on him.

It's kind of funny that you think I'm masochist/Authoritarian but what's really funny is how you believe in the 9/11 conspiracy and think that fluoride is a bad thing to put in water.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
22nd September 07, 08:57 PM
Cullion maybe if you answered my question instead of saying GRRRR FREEDOM OF SPEECH I CAN'T BELIEVE WHAT A MORON YOU ARE you wouldn't be so stressed out.

Cullion
22nd September 07, 09:12 PM
Excuse me, but when did you establish that he was within his rights?

Free speech. And Free Speech again. Nay, a thousand times. Your question is an idiotic one, that I would expect only of a mouth-breathing fool who happened to own stock in a major supplier to the department of father(oops, I meant home)-land security.

His college received federal funds. Ergo not private land. To have to argue the toss as to why it's not ok to taser mouthy non-violent students who are asking a politician a question on their campus is like having to argue as to why it's not ok to shoot black people just because they are on your property. Except that some of those stormfront types have well-rehearsed arguments, and you're just a 15-year old 'tard.

'tard.


and think that fluoride is a bad thing to put in water.

Guess you never did read that memo from the chemistry professor that I posted.

Riddeck
22nd September 07, 09:13 PM
It's kind of funny that you think I'm masochist/Authoritarian but what's really funny is how you believe in the 9/11 conspiracy and think that fluoride is a bad thing to put in water.

What I believe or do not believe does not change the fact that you are flawed in your thoughts about this, or anything like it, I imagine.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
22nd September 07, 09:23 PM
Free speech. And Free Speech again. Nay, a thousand times. Your question is an idiotic one, that I would expect only of a mouth-breathing fool who happened to own stock in a major supplier to the department of father(oops, I meant home)-land security.

His college received federal funds. Ergo not private land. To have to argue the toss as to why it's not ok to taser mouthy non-violent students who are asking a politician a question on their campus is like having to argue as to why it's not ok to shoot black people just because they are on your property. Except that some of those stormfront types have well-rehearsed arguments, and you're just a 15-year old 'tard.

'tard.

You assume that land ceases to be private when the owner receives federal subsidies (Does a company's factory cease to be private when the company receives subsidies? If so, why is corporate welfare not considered to be extremely socialist?) and that nonlethal, nonracially motivated force is the same as lethal, racially motivated force. Maybe you should take a nap, old man.


Guess you never did read that memo from the chemistry professor that I posted.

Oh no, my teeth are going to be cleaned!


What I believe or do not believe does not change the fact that you are flawed in your thoughts about this, or anything like it, I imagine.

I think it puts your post into perspective.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
22nd September 07, 09:23 PM
oh p.s. you still haven't explained how acting like this is protected free speech.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
22nd September 07, 09:27 PM
Meyer was arrested on charges of resisting an officer and disturbing the peace, according to Alachua County jail records, but the State Attorney's Office had yet to make the formal charging decision. Police recommended charges of resisting arrest with violence, a felony, and disturbing the peace and interfering with school administrative functions, a misdemeanor.

http://www.miamiherald.com/775/story/241199.html

Kein Haar
22nd September 07, 10:38 PM
Having the freedom to *say* what you want is different than forcing someone to *listen.*

Venues matter.

The trash heap has spoken.

Unless the opposite is true, in which case, I will have found a captive audience in grade schools for my air guitar and her killer licks. Therein lies important truths.

DAYoung
22nd September 07, 11:49 PM
As a LEO, do you think the situation should've escalated in the way it did? And if not, do the cops have any responsibility for slowing this escalation?

Open question, by the way - I'm not trying to get the answer I want.

Arhetton
23rd September 07, 12:38 AM
we are arresting you for resisting arrest!

this guy got tasered for annoying people at a forum?

Jesus MJS you should be terrified

http://blog.scifi.com/tech/pics/taser_putthehurt.jpg

woot stun gunz

Stick
23rd September 07, 02:47 AM
Because in america it's the job of police officers to remove people who annoy politicians with impertinent questions.

He asked a question, Kerry began to answer, and this guy kept going as if he was trying to make some saliant point (pro-tip: he wasn't). The forum moderator- not the police- cut his mic and he began to try to shout over Kerry. What's more, this kid cut ahead of people in a line ordered as part and parcel of the rules of this event- yes, a "town hall" or forum meeting has rules-, rules which, BTW, included "don't be a douche" (page 3, section 7, subparagraph 3).

This kid's most moronic blunder was in his response to the police; over something like this- his right to be a dead dog's sphincter- fighting cops is just not worth it, and that's in addition to the fact that fighting cops is always one of the dumbest things you can do any where on earth.

Seriously, if I was there, I'd be happy he was ejected, little prick wanted to create a scene and make a name for himself- well, good for him, I love seeing people get what they want.


He didn't start resisting until the cops grabbed him as was his right given that whole US constitution thing

Never advise anyone in this country what their rights are, please. You'll get people killed with this shit.

It is no one's right to fight cops- no not even in that whole "well ordered militia" bit is there anything about your right to struggle when dealing with officers of the law.

Here's a hint kids, if he had not struggled he would not have been placed under arrest; being escorted from a place =! being arrested.

How do I know this? I've been kicked out of campus facilities by campus cops and was never cuffed, arrested, charged- anything, but I would've been if my response to those officers' actions had been to ignore or antagonize them.

You have the right to recompense in the face of police missconduct, but you will never successfully exercise that right on the street- hell, it'll probably get you killed.

DAYoung
23rd September 07, 02:58 AM
This is police state brutality - like something from the Terror.

And Kerry speaks French...

Ah ha...

Stick
23rd September 07, 03:05 AM
This is police state brutality - like something from the Terror.

And Kerry speaks French...

Ah ha...


No it isn't.

I didn't see anyone in white around him vying to get the most blood on themselves during his beheading by tazer.

DAYoung
23rd September 07, 03:13 AM
No it isn't.

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n5/DAYoung_2006/Robespierre.jpg

Stick
23rd September 07, 03:28 AM
http://www.bullshido.net/gallery/data/500/yarlyterror.jpg

bob
23rd September 07, 03:32 AM
Having the freedom to *say* what you want is different than forcing someone to *listen.*

Venues matter.



I have to say I agree. There is no such thing as an absolute right. If your rights impinge on others then you have to start making judgements. Reliance on the fact that it was written in a Book 200 years ago to support your case is no more a valid argument than using your own particular interpretation of the Bible.

Guys like this who try to make themselves martyrs really piss me off because it belittles the very real cases of police brutality that occur.

But I would also say the cops reacted badly and that American politicians are spoon fed pussies If I were a Yank I'd be pissed that nobody ever seems to put them on the spot.

Neildo
23rd September 07, 03:38 AM
havent watched the video, haven't read the thread

tasers rule. whatever he did, i'm sure the taser did it's job admirably.

http://ndato11.googlepages.com/taser.gif

Stick
23rd September 07, 03:41 AM
But I would also say the cops reacted badly and that American politicians are spoon fed pussies If I were a Yank I'd be pissed that nobody ever seems to put them on the spot.

Asking these goobers about skull bones is about as much "putting them on the spot" as is, oh, asking them if they've had anything to eat in the last week.

This guy wasn't asking anything new or making any radical points. If you found his questions poignant then you probably haven't been paying attention to politics either because you're a goober or they're not your own domestic politics and no matter how much you'd like us ignorant yanks to think you're that much more aware of world events than we are, you aren't.

And for those of you curious souls out there; yes, Kerry was so totally in Skull & Bones and so was Bush, this is public knowledge it isn't alleged or rumored or whispered about under baited breath for fear the black helicopters will come and take the whisperers away. As to "why didn't you make a bigger stink about losing the election", because Bush is a douche bag, not Hitler; the smooth transition and flow of government is worth more than whether a douchebag or a turd sandwhich won the election- frankly a lot of the reported dissenfranchised dem votes comes right along side equally weihty allegations of dem voter fraud, a serious recount and investigation would've likely been a wash with the same pathetic results.

DAYoung
23rd September 07, 03:45 AM
http://www.bullshido.net/gallery/data/500/yarlyterror.jpg

I approve heartily of this retort.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
23rd September 07, 03:47 AM
I think the conflict in this thread is what Cullion wishes were true (That you have the right to anything in any situation) what is true (that you don't) and the conclusions he's erroneously reaching (that we support limited freedoms by admitting that freedoms are limited).

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
23rd September 07, 03:48 AM
at least until he reveals that this was all a clever ruse and he just wanted to make sure we are regularly examining our own beliefs.

Oh, Cullion, where would we be without you?

Stick
23rd September 07, 03:51 AM
Ya know, I think Cullion is genuinely mad in this thread.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
23rd September 07, 03:53 AM
Old men need more sleep than the rest of us or else they get very cranky.

Neildo
23rd September 07, 03:54 AM
watched the video.

way to cause a public disturbance and resist arrest, jackass.

http://ndato11.googlepages.com/taser.gif

bob
23rd September 07, 03:58 AM
Asking these goobers about skull bones is about as much "putting them on the spot" as is, oh, asking them if they've had anything to eat in the last week.

This guy wasn't asking anything new or making any radical points. If you found his questions poignant then you probably haven't been paying attention to politics either because you're a goober or they're not your own domestic politics and no matter how much you'd like us ignorant yanks to think you're that much more aware of world events than we are, you aren't.



Er, what?

I didn't say I found his questions poignant. I don't really give a shit about the issues he was raising to be honest. All I'm saying is that American politicians seem to be treated with a degree of deference by the mainstream media that would annoy me if they were my own. In fact it does annoy me when it happens in Australia but that's a whole other issue.

As to your extrapolation that I'm calling you all ignorant yanks, well I can only assume that you're either deliberately trying to pick a fight, you just plain didn't read what I wrote or you're a little defensive about the subject.

Stick
23rd September 07, 04:00 AM
I'm defensive- that 20/20 clip about our education system hurt-, and how much the media some times seems to coddle our elected talking heads bothers me too.

More video.

HoReiKdLkh8

"They're giving me to the government!"

"Ask them where I am, cause they are gonna try and kill me!"

Yes, this is the victim of state terrorism, this brave martyr for freedom and the future of our country.

Twit.

Yiktin Voxbane
23rd September 07, 04:40 AM
*Beheading by Taser*


BwahahaHahaAAAha
*Breathes*
Rofl .

@ Dayoung & Stick, you make a part of me laugh I ain't entirely comfy with .

Kein Haar
23rd September 07, 04:59 AM
As a LEO, do you think the situation should've escalated in the way it did? And if not, do the cops have any responsibility for slowing this escalation?

I'm gonna have to agree with Cullion, ultimately, becuase this is NOT confined to the John Kerrys of the world. The heads of Village Board, and HOA meetings (for fuck's sake) think they are hiring us as muscle for angry people they don't want to hear. Oh rly?

No, I'm not there to enforce you idea of decorum. If a criminal law is broken, fine. But if someone is merely verbally disruptive, the solution is to adjourn the meeting. Their disrupted meeting is *their* problem. A battery or some such would be mine, yes.

So, no. The cops should have stood their with their arms crossed, and suggest that the Kerry people figure somethign out until the guy breaks the law in a more decisive way than "disorderly conduct". He's not out on the street with the unwitting public.

Having said that...having made a decision to arresst, the escalation is completely up to the arresstee. "Should" is irrelevant.

Good on Kerry though. He and Jesse Jackson would have held hands if this guy was black, and he was disrupting a David Duke meet up, which they never actually witnessed. That'd be free speech and stuff. This is simply worthy of amusing anecdotes to distract the crowd.

DAYoung
23rd September 07, 05:11 AM
I'm gonna have to agree with Cullion, ultimately, becuase this is NOT confined to the John Kerrys of the world. The heads of Village Board, and HOA meetings (for fuck's sake) think they are hiring us as muscle for angry people they don't want to hear. Oh rly?

No, I'm not there to enforce you idea of decorum. If a criminal law is broken, fine. But if someone is merely verbally disruptive, the solution is to adjourn the meeting. Their disrupted meeting is *their* problem. A battery or some such would be mine, yes.

So, no. The cops should have stood their with their arms crossed, and suggest that the Kerry people figure somethign out until the guy breaks the law in a more decisive way than "disorderly conduct". He's not out on the street with the unwitting public.

Having said that...having made a decision to arresst, the escalation is completely up to the arresstee. "Should" is irrelevant.

Good on Kerry though. He and Jesse Jackson would have held hands if this guy was black, and he was disrupting a David Duke meet up, which they never actually witnessed. That'd be free speech and stuff. This is simply worthy of amusing anecdotes to distract the crowd.

Thanks for this.

My 'should've' is a mark of implied authority. They LEOs are used to conflict situations. I expect they'd be used to defusing them without...you know...tasers.

Lu Tze
23rd September 07, 05:21 AM
As a slightly interesting aside: How popular would John Kerry be right now if he'd actually had the balls to tell the cops to stop what they were doing?

Golden opportunity missed right there John boy. Which kinda reinforces my cynical belief that most politicians are just mouth pieces for their political parties, and don't posses any true intelligence or self determination.

Cullion
23rd September 07, 05:23 AM
I think the conflict in this thread is what Cullion wishes were true (That you have the right to anything in any situation) what is true (that you don't) and the conclusions he's erroneously reaching (that we support limited freedoms by admitting that freedoms are limited).

You've either never read your constitution or you didn't fucking understand it.

Cullion
23rd September 07, 05:28 AM
He asked a question, Kerry began to answer, and this guy kept going as if he was trying to make some saliant point (pro-tip: he wasn't). The forum moderator- not the police- cut his mic and he began to try to shout over Kerry. What's more, this kid cut ahead of people in a line ordered as part and parcel of the rules of this event- yes, a "town hall" or forum meeting has rules-, rules which, BTW, included "don't be a douche" (page 3, section 7, subparagraph 3).

It's a good job Keinhaar has explained why you're wrong otherwise I would probaby have had to do at least 10 minutes of reading to prove you wrong.




This kid's most moronic blunder was in his response to the police; over something like this- his right to be a dead dog's sphincter- fighting cops is just not worth it, and that's in addition to the fact that fighting cops is always one of the dumbest things you can do any where on earth.

He was attacked by cops exceeding their proper duties and powers.



Seriously, if I was there, I'd be happy he was ejected, little prick wanted to create a scene and make a name for himself- well, good for him, I love seeing people get what they want.

One day it will be you.

Neildo
23rd September 07, 05:37 AM
He was attacked by cops exceeding their proper duties and powers.

How it could have gone:
Cops: Okay man, you're done. Lets go.
Dude: Okay. *walks calmly outside*

How it went:
Cops: Okay man, you're done. Lets go.
Dude: WHAT DID I DO WRONG HELP HELP DONT TAZE ME BRO


I don't think 'attacked' is the right word at all.

bob
23rd September 07, 05:46 AM
Good on Kerry though. He and Jesse Jackson would have held hands if this guy was black, and he was disrupting a David Duke meet up, which they never actually witnessed. That'd be free speech and stuff. This is simply worthy of amusing anecdotes to distract the crowd.

Here's my story of cops being used as political muscle. Well, my wife's actually.

Told this before but anyway, she's on holidays in Seattle a few years back when all of a sudden she realises that there's a huge KKK rally through the center of the city.

Says 'wtf?' and, like a good tourist, pulls out the camera and starts taking snapshots. All of a sudden feels a meaty paw on her arm, camera snatched out of her hand and film being removed by Seattle's finest. Apparently there was an election of some sort coming up and it was deemed by this cop that photos of the event were 'too inflammatory' or some such crap.

Cullion
23rd September 07, 06:09 AM
How it could have gone:
Cops: Okay man, you're done. Lets go.
Dude: Okay. *walks calmly outside*


It is not the proper role of the police to intervene at all when somebody is argumentative or otherwise verbally rude to a politician.

DAYoung
23rd September 07, 06:09 AM
BORNSCEPTIC IS MARRIED TO A TERRORIST.

billy sol hurok
23rd September 07, 07:47 AM
Here's my story of cops being used as political muscle. Well, my wife's actually.

Told this before but anyway, she's on holidays in Seattle a few years back when all of a sudden she realises that there's a huge KKK rally through the center of the city.

Says 'wtf?' and, like a good tourist, pulls out the camera and starts taking snapshots. All of a sudden feels a meaty paw on her arm, camera snatched out of her hand and film being removed by Seattle's finest. Apparently there was an election of some sort coming up and it was deemed by this cop that photos of the event were 'too inflammatory' or some such crap.

Now THAT I have a problem with . . .

Stick
23rd September 07, 01:25 PM
@Kein Haar; I'd like to surrender, officer.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
23rd September 07, 01:37 PM
You've either never read your constitution or you didn't fucking understand it.

You've said all of nothing. I figured you would be old enough to know better.

billy sol hurok
23rd September 07, 01:43 PM
Well that didn't take long . . .

Xzkd_m4ivmc

Cullion
23rd September 07, 01:58 PM
You've said all of nothing. I figured you would be old enough to know better.

I don't have enough time here to educate you about what freedom of speech is supposed to mean, suffice to say: if you ignore things like this one day it will happen closer to home.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
23rd September 07, 01:59 PM
I don't have time to tell you why I'm right but if you don't agree with me then all your Orwellian nightmares will come true.

Riddeck
23rd September 07, 02:22 PM
I don't have time to tell you why I'm right but if you don't agree with me then all your Orwellian nightmares will come true.

At least you know they exist.

Kein Haar
23rd September 07, 03:26 PM
@Kein Haar; I'd like to surrender, officer.

What are you implying? :phil:

Stick
23rd September 07, 04:14 PM
I'm not entirely sure.

I'm still under the impression this kid wouldn't be in any trouble if he had simply cooperated, but at the same time it's a shame cops started to show him out. Then on the other hand, it was a fucking Q&A session with set rules that were clearly violated, and the kid really is just trying to make a scene- a little political johnny knoxville.

In conclusion (?), fuck Cullion.

Kein Haar
23rd September 07, 04:33 PM
You're right, it's not "poster boy" situation for really anything.

Certainly, University administrators are ceded a certain degree of control over University property.

I can't spray paint slogans on the motherfucker's walls just because "my taxes pay for it."

I can't show up in a given classroom without having paid tuition and smoke a cigar and laugh loudly in a front row.

Administrators would not be expected to forcibly remove someone. They cede that to the police.

If University personnel with authority over the property wanted this kid gone, I see less of a problem. John Kerry would simply represent the venue for a kid violating school policy, and not a political figure against which protected speech was directed.

Indubitably, the kid would not be arrested for expressing the same content in a different venue (web page, editorial, paid advertisment etc..)

Cullion
23rd September 07, 04:38 PM
I'm not entirely sure.

I'm still under the impression this kid wouldn't be in any trouble if he had simply cooperated, but at the same time it's a shame cops started to show him out. Then on the other hand, it was a fucking Q&A session with set rules that were clearly violated, and the kid really is just trying to make a scene- a little political johnny knoxville.

Explain what the rules were and why police should be enforcing them.


In conclusion (?), fuck Cullion.

Not in your sweatiest, fumbling imaginings.

Stick
23rd September 07, 04:54 PM
There is a limmited amunt of time on the whole affair, there is a line of many people wanting to ask questions who deserve just as much time as you do, each person asks one- maybe a two part- question, conduct yourself with something resembling maturity.

This guy cut ahead in the line, asked a lengthy question, and as his question began to receive an answer cut off Kerry to prattle on further, he didn't take the hint when his mic was cut for 1. trying to talk over the guest and 2. "lowering the tone", and so he bean to yell and esticulate like a loon, at this point he was asked to leave- I would assume first by the forum moderator/campus official- and was then asked to leave by police, this little shit wasn't having any of that and was then escorted out, up to this point there is no reason to believe he would've been cuffed or charged with anything, at all.

edit: I think the g key on this key board is half dead, I'll just leave the typos in to illustrate.

Cullion
23rd September 07, 05:05 PM
There is a limmited amunt of time on the whole affair, there is a line of many people wanting to ask questions who deserve just as much time as you do, each person asks one- maybe a two part- question, conduct yourself with something resembling maturity.

This guy cut ahead in the line, asked a lengthy question, and as his question began to receive an answer cut off Kerry to prattle on further, he didn't take the hint when his mic was cut for 1. trying to talk over the guest and 2. "lowering the tone", and so he bean to yell and esticulate like a loon, at this point he was asked to leave- I would assume first by the forum moderator/campus official-

Where was all of this reported ?

Stick
23rd September 07, 05:21 PM
Here's a good one. (http://machinist.salon.com/blog/2007/09/19/meyer_jerk/)

Didn't see it in that article, but it is mentioned in several pieces (http://news.google.com/news?sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-US&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf8&um=1&tab=wn&q=andrew+meyer&sa=N&start=0); apparently every person in line was alotted one minute to ask their question.

Cullion
23rd September 07, 05:38 PM
Here's a good one. (http://machinist.salon.com/blog/2007/09/19/meyer_jerk/)

Didn't see it in that article, but it is mentioned in several pieces (http://news.google.com/news?sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-US&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf8&um=1&tab=wn&q=andrew+meyer&sa=N&start=0); apparently every person in line was alotted one minute to ask their question.

The police tried to remove him when he'd been speaking for less than 20 seconds.

Anna Kovacs
23rd September 07, 05:41 PM
If those cops werent so chubby and weak then maybe it wouldnt have taken like 5 of them and a taser to take that guy down

DAYoung
23rd September 07, 05:42 PM
If those cops werent so chubby and weak then maybe it wouldnt have taken like 5 of them and a taser to take that guy down

The taser is a penis substitute.

Anna Kovacs
23rd September 07, 05:44 PM
Some people like them long and thin and barbed.

Anna Kovacs
23rd September 07, 05:44 PM
On the upside, videos like this give me hope that on the day when I might have to run away from a law enforcement officer I shouldnt have to much trouble.

DAYoung
23rd September 07, 05:45 PM
Some people like them long and thin and barbed.

And attached to LEOs.

Just admit that you're longing to be 'tasered'.

Anna Kovacs
23rd September 07, 05:47 PM
only if i can be handcuffed first.

DAYoung
23rd September 07, 05:52 PM
only if i can be handcuffed first.

*bows to your discerning palate*

Sirc
24th September 07, 02:18 AM
Wait...

So if I came into your home (invited) and starting peeing in your sink and crapping in your cabinets all the while screaming expletives at the top of my lungs, you wouldn't remove me?

Really? Because if you wouldn't, I have some vices I definitely want to get out of my system.

DAYoung
24th September 07, 02:30 AM
Wait...

So if I came into your home (invited) and starting peeing in your sink and crapping in your cabinets all the while screaming expletives at the top of my lungs, you wouldn't remove me?

Really? Because if you wouldn't, I have some vices I definitely want to get out of my system.

I see what you're saying. You're saying Heidegger's easily seen as a Romantic, when in fact he's equally a modernist.

Yes, yep. I can dig it.

Sirc
24th September 07, 02:32 AM
I see what you're saying. You're saying Heidegger's easily seen as a Romantic, when in fact he's equally a modernist.

Yes, yep. I can dig it.

Sometimes I want to rub my face into your shoulder like a cat.

Cullion
24th September 07, 07:18 AM
Wait...

So if I came into your home (invited) and starting peeing in your sink and crapping in your cabinets all the while screaming expletives at the top of my lungs, you wouldn't remove me?

Really? Because if you wouldn't, I have some vices I definitely want to get out of my system.

No, but I'd certainly shoot you in the face if you interrupted Al Gore during a monologue on the importance of regular flossing.

Sirc
24th September 07, 09:08 PM
No, but I'd certainly shoot you in the face if you interrupted Al Gore during a monologue on the importance of regular flossing.

Should he have been tasered? Maybe not. For his safety and the safety of others and the building owners and not getting sued, yes. Of course.

Is this what he wanted? Yes. Was he being a douchebag? Yes. Did he deserve everything he got? Probably.

Point is, kid got what he wanted, everyone else got what they wanted. I don't see why you're so angry about it.

Anna Kovacs
24th September 07, 09:32 PM
Having watched more of the video I find it funny that they resorted to the taser after 6 of them were already holding him to the ground.

Oh well, at least it's not a video of an officer kneeling on a suspects throat and punching the helpless guy in the face while said officers partner holds the suspect down for him. That's police brutality, this is police lazyness.

Cullion
25th September 07, 05:24 AM
For his safety and the safety of others and the building owners and not getting sued, yes. Of course.

I don't agree there.



Is this what he wanted? Yes. Was he being a douchebag? Yes.

Yah, probably.


Did he deserve everything he got?

No, I don't think so.



Point is, kid got what he wanted, everyone else got what they wanted. I don't see why you're so angry about it.

I really don't like seeing police officers being used to silence non-violent protestors, and I hadn't read the eyewitness reports of how he seemed to have planned this as a stunt before I got so mad about his treatment. Just going by what I saw in the video, his treatment seemed completely out of line.

This sort of thing bothers me, not in isolation, but as part of a trend that I find sinister on both sides of the atlantic to supress people's right to demonstrate peacefully and the increasing security surrounding politicians, which seems increasingly intended to insulate from (peacefully but loudly expressed) public anger than protect them from direct physical threats.

It's not long ago that a pensioner in the UK was arrested under anti-terrorism laws for peacefully heckling a politician at a political conference of the Labour party when the politician was telling bare-faced lies about the invasion of Iraq on the podium. A party he'd been a member of for decades.

Tony Blair was surrounded by more barriers, police closing down of public areas and body guards than Winston Churchill was in WWII for pete's sake.

Scrapper
25th September 07, 07:53 AM
One man's "bare-faced-lie" is another's "unquestionable truth."

I actually see your point, Cullion. The guy wasn't actually hurting anyone, and did not appear to be trying to hurt anyone either. Hew was being an obnoxious, disruptive jackass, but he wasn't doing any real harm.

However, I agree that if the event coordinators don't want disruptive jackasses at their event, they have the right to remove said jackasses. Freedom of speech and freedom to demonstrate does not include the right to disrupt someone else's event, speech, or demonstration. Anything he needed to say could have been done with a demonstration OUTSIDE the venue. (Unless you think he actually wanted Kerry to answer his is banal, rhetorical, and utterly ridiculous questions).

When told to leave the event, he is legally obligated to do so. When instructed by law enforcement personnel to leave, he is legally obligated to do so. When he elected non-compliance with the law, he was placed under arrest. When he resisted arrest, a painful but ultimately harmless technique was employed to assist in restraining him without injury to himself or law enforcement personnel.

He was released back on the street in under four hours, will receive all the benefits of due process, and will probably get absolutely no punishment whatsoever.

So what we have is a rabble-rouser disrupting an event to pursue his own agenda. He disregards the law and common courtesy as defined by the society he lives in. He is verbally instructed to remove himself. He chooses to continue his behavior. He resists the duly appointed peace-keeping officers when they attempt to remove him. He ignores REPEATED requests to comply with instructions, physically resists said officers, and gets tazed. He is not harmed while in custody, gets a free lawyer, and is released almost immediately

Oh yes...I can definitely see how draconian and Orwellian this situation is. Stalin himself would be proud, nyet?

Cullion
25th September 07, 08:49 AM
I actually see your point, Cullion. The guy wasn't actually hurting anyone, and did not appear to be trying to hurt anyone either. Hew was being an obnoxious, disruptive jackass, but he wasn't doing any real harm.

However, I agree that if the event coordinators don't want disruptive jackasses at their event, they have the right to remove said jackasses.

Freedom of speech and freedom to demonstrate does not include the right to disrupt someone else's event, speech, or demonstration. Anything he needed to say could have been done with a demonstration OUTSIDE the venue. (Unless you think he actually wanted Kerry to answer his is banal, rhetorical, and utterly ridiculous questions).

I think that depends where it is held. This was an event held on a university campus, wasn't it? Aren't they public places, in receipt of public funds, and more importantly, places where one would expect the widest latitude for 'free speech' possible? Whilst he was indoors, I don't think the same standards should apply in a public building like a town hall or college debating hall as they do in somebody's house or private place of business. It's not the private property of the administration, they just work there.



When told to leave the event, he is legally obligated to do so. When instructed by law enforcement personnel to leave, he is legally obligated to do so. When he elected non-compliance with the law, he was placed under arrest.

Hang on now, that's not what Kein Haar told us from a LEO perspective.



So what we have is a rabble-rouser disrupting an event to pursue his own agenda. He disregards the law and common courtesy as defined by the society he lives in.

Rabble rousing is a pretty key right under freedom of speech as I understand it. If it were banned, your country would never have freed itself from the yoke of your rightful monarch ;)



He is verbally instructed to remove himself. He chooses to continue his behavior.

The video showed him being pounced on within seconds of him starting to speak.


Oh yes...I can definitely see how draconian and Orwellian this situation is. Stalin himself would be proud, nyet?

Remember the campus protests against Vietnam in the 60s and 70s? Some police departments tried all kinds of underhand tricks and outright brutality to break those up, but there was public outcry from their parent's generation in the end.

I'm concerned that people are gradually getting desensitised to the way 'trouble makers' are dealt with. Big social changes face less resistance when they happen gradually. I consider this the thin end of a wedge. I'd be interested to see if this guy ends up on a no-fly list, like other Americans with no connection to any form of violence of terror activity have.

Scrapper
25th September 07, 09:16 AM
Universities, even state funded ones, are private property. They are not considered "municipal" buildings the same way town halls are. Furthermore, this was not a "public" forum; it was a question/answer session held by an on-campus political group. They have every right to dictate how their own event would proceed.


As for Kein Haar's points, yes it really is not particularly fair that the campus group made their event's security the province of local law enforcement. Our LEO's are not really supposed to do that sort of thing, but their charter puts them in the postion from time to time.


Furthermore, I support rabble-rousing as well. All truly great men are agitators first. But that does not mean that they are immune from the consequences. Break the law, go to jail. MLK did it, Ghandi did it, Mandela did it. If you come to my event and piss on my guests, I will have you removed. Period. Maybe you made a point, maybe you didn't. Not my problem. I have just as much right to make my statement as you do yours...and that is where Meyer screwed up. He felt HIS right to free speech superseded the rights of the event coordinators.

Your rights end where mine begin. It's been that way since the beginning. Just because you have something to say does not mean you have the right to barge into my event and say it any way you want. There were 9587 ways Meyer could have made his point more effectively, but he chose to be an obnoxious, attention whoring, prick. Not only to Kerry, but to all the individuals attending the event, and to the LEO's trying to do their jobs.

I still think he got it pretty easy.

Cullion
25th September 07, 09:25 AM
Universities, even state funded ones, are private property. They are not considered "municipal" buildings the same way town halls are.

Personally, I would put them in the category of 'municipal' for the faculty and registered students of the university.


Furthermore, this was not a "public" forum; it was a question/answer session held by an on-campus political group. They have every right to dictate how their own event would proceed.

Would you say the same thing if it was a Klan rally ? I know it's an extreme example, but I'm sure you can see my point.



Furthermore, I support rabble-rousing as well. All truly great men are agitators first. But that does not mean that they are immune from the consequences. Break the law, go to jail. MLK did it, Ghandi did it, Mandela did it. If you come to my event and piss on my guests, I will have you removed. Period. Maybe you made a point, maybe you didn't. Not my problem. I have just as much right to make my statement as you do yours...and that is where Meyer screwed up. He felt HIS right to free speech superseded the rights of the event coordinators.

I don't think interrupting somebody is an affront to their right to free speech, let's face it, he really didn't talk for very long before they tried to remove him.

Politicians on both side of the pond are way more obnoxious to each other in our parliament and your televised debates.

Sirc
25th September 07, 09:54 AM
See here's the problem Cullion. You think that one should uphold their freedoms and rights before anything else.

Common Courtesy should be applied before taking up any of your rights.

Cullion
25th September 07, 10:08 AM
See here's the problem Cullion. You think that one should uphold their freedoms and rights before anything else.

Common Courtesy should be applied before taking up any of your rights.

It's too easy to deny people's rights by a subtle form of 'tyranny of the majority' that way. I always thought the way you colonials dumped our tea in that harbour was pretty rude.

Seriously, if we apply 'common courtesy' rather than 'constitutional law' to political debates, then people are going to be arrested for raising their voice, or interrupting each other on TV.

Scrapper
25th September 07, 10:45 AM
Would you say the same thing if it was a Klan rally ? I know it's an extreme example, but I'm sure you can see my point.






Yes! Exactly! Thank you!

If the Klan holds a meeting/event, and someone crashes it purely for the sake of disrupting said event, then the disruptor is still WRONG!

I don't have to like the Klan to understand that they have the right to peaceably assemble and hold events. I might be outside with a sign that says "Klansmen are bad people!" as is my right, but I do not have the right to trample THEIR first amendment rights.

I think Kerry is a moron, but Meyer did not have the right to disrupt that event. He deliberately tried to oppress that groups right to peaceably assemble.

Cullion
25th September 07, 10:49 AM
Yes! Exactly! Thank you!

If the Klan holds a meeting/event, and someone crashes it purely for the sake of disrupting said event, then the disruptor is still WRONG!

On their own land, yes. On a college campus, when the 'impertinent questioners' are students, I'd say no.



I think Kerry is a moron, but Meyer did not have the right to disrupt that event. He deliberately tried to oppress that groups right to peaceably assemble.

See, this is where we differ. Meyer didn't try to throw Kerry out. He raised his voice for a few seconds.

Here's a question: Do you believe that the police would have thrown Kerry out had he raised his voice for a few seconds at an event organised by Meyer in a college debating hall?

Scrapper
25th September 07, 11:33 AM
Tsk tsk, Cullion.

You know better. If Kerry barged into a Meyer event, broke the rules, and disrupted the proceedings, then resisted removal, and ultimately resisted lawful peace-officers?

Yup. Taze away.

Riddeck
25th September 07, 12:01 PM
Could one also argue that, since we as taxpayers 'own' the politicians (Not own, but we pay for their jobs, so they work for us), that we then have the right to have questions answered, to even demand them?

Kind of a boss/employee relationship? You must answer to your boss, less you are fired?

Cullion
25th September 07, 12:17 PM
Tsk tsk, Cullion.

You know better. If Kerry barged into a Meyer event, broke the rules, and disrupted the proceedings

Meyer raised his voice and conflated a couple of questions together. It took seconds. He was immediately approached by law enforcement officers. They would not have done the same to Kerry. It would not have got as far as him 'resisting' because they would not have attempted to arrest or even remove him unless he actually broke a criminal law.

We've all seen politicians interrupt, raise their voices over each other, ask one question and then ask another without waiting for a reply at public events, in TV studios and in college debating halls

Nobody fetches security, and most people would think you were weird for suggesting somebody calls the police.

Meyer was unarmed and presented no physical threat. There's no reason why different rules should apply.

Anna Kovacs
25th September 07, 12:30 PM
I'm not really the paranoid "omg ze govment" type, but i do think that cullion is onto something.

Not in the sense of some big guiding conspiracy, simply in the sense of small changes over time adding up and eventually setting us up for a fall.

Cullion
25th September 07, 12:41 PM
I'm not really the paranoid "omg ze govment" type, but i do think that cullion is onto something.

Not in the sense of some big guiding conspiracy, simply in the sense of small changes over time adding up and eventually setting us up for a fall.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. Incremental changes in how 'VIPs' are treated, amongst other things, that are making it easier to push people around.

DAYoung
25th September 07, 03:00 PM
I agree.

The UK 'omg penshoner in audeince kill kill' is a good example of this.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
25th September 07, 05:16 PM
We've all seen politicians interrupt, raise their voices over each other, ask one question and then ask another without waiting for a reply at public events, in TV studios and in college debating halls

Nobody fetches security, and most people would think you were weird for suggesting somebody calls the police.

Meyer was unarmed and presented no physical threat. There's no reason why different rules should apply.

So what you're actually saying we all think VIPs deserve special treatment because we don't think Meyer was in his rights?

Zendetta
25th September 07, 06:41 PM
Anybody here read the Palast book in question?

Stick
25th September 07, 06:58 PM
Closet nazis like us don't read the dissenting opinions of liberal journalists, we burn them.

Zendetta
25th September 07, 07:37 PM
Yeah, I know but you still need something next to the john besides that dog-earred copy of Mein Kampf.

Stick
25th September 07, 08:20 PM
Mein Kampf II: Jetzt mit tazers!

jvjim
25th September 07, 10:24 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Denial_System

Escalating the war against Meyer and his terrorist buddies.

kick
25th September 07, 11:20 PM
Could one also argue that, since we as taxpayers 'own' the politicians (Not own, but we pay for their jobs, so they work for us), that we then have the right to have questions answered, to even demand them?

Kind of a boss/employee relationship? You must answer to your boss, less you are fired?

Good point, but I think politicians are more like the board members/ directors, of a public company, and the voters are shareholder.

Shareholders get to elect the board, but once they are in they manage the company, and appoint company officers/ public servants.

If you don't like what they do, you vote them out at the end of their term.


In relation to this, i think that they were a bit quick to jump on him, but Police should be respected, and he got tazed, well maybe next time he complies with their request. Now if they took him, shot him in the head, dumped him in the river, then suppressed news articles and youtube footage, I would be concerned, but they didn't so I am not really.

kick
25th September 07, 11:25 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Denial_System

Escalating the war against Meyer and his terrorist buddies.

Holy crap, now that concerns me, I can see one of these things being used at the next world leaders conference.

Perfectly safe like DDT, and then 20 years later everyone, that got supertazed had cancer and is sterile.

jvjim
26th September 07, 01:38 AM
Perfectly safe like DDT, and then 20 years later everyone, that got supertazed had cancer and is sterile. Yep, its standard UN zero population growth policy, just like abstinence education.

Cullion
26th September 07, 05:24 AM
So what you're actually saying we all think VIPs deserve special treatment because we don't think Meyer was in his rights?

I think you've become culturally acclimated to it. I don't think when you engage conscious reason you actually think that. I know you aren't a Nazi.

billy sol hurok
26th September 07, 05:56 AM
Yep, its standard UN zero population growth policy, just like abstinence education.
You down with ZPG?
Yeah, you know me!

Cullion: I understand your concern with the whole velvet-rope-for-elected-officials thing. So let's take them out of the picture, for the moment.

We'll keep the university setting, but let's just make this a conference, with a panel of academic guests taking questions from the audience.

Johnny Agenda stills shoves his way to the front of the line, delivers a long, hectoring screed in the guise of a "question," refuses to relinquish the mic, refuses to leave. Is there a point at which force becomes appropriate? Or do we just make Kein Haar's job easy and cancel the whole conference?

DAYoung
26th September 07, 06:05 AM
Is some idiot did that to me at a conference, I'd be aghast if the cops were that aggressive. 'No, no, Kein, not the Spyderco. I KNOW IT'S TEH SHARP, BUT YOU'RE STAINING THE VENETIAN CARPETS.'

If I wanted some doofus thrown out, I'd do it myself.

Kein Haar
26th September 07, 06:47 AM
I'm glad you continue to acknowledge my teh sh4rp.

I'm gonna get 300 of them.

Cullion
26th September 07, 07:23 AM
We'll keep the university setting, but let's just make this a conference, with a panel of academic guests taking questions from the audience.

Johnny Agenda stills shoves his way to the front of the line, delivers a long, hectoring screed in the guise of a "question," refuses to relinquish the mic, refuses to leave. Is there a point at which force becomes appropriate? Or do we just make Kein Haar's job easy and cancel the whole conference?

I'd give them quite a bit more time than the guy in the video got.

Presumably the person you're envisioning is a severely mentally ill person, who continues to rant even when I give them time to finish speaking and then done my best to answer any questions.

My first action after they've refused to stop talking and refused to leave would be to turn their mic off. Then I would adjourn the meeting as Kein Haar suggested. I would reconvene either somewhere else or back in the room if the person left. As it's an academic conference not relevant to the public at large, I would then refuse that person entry to any other rooms we had booked for use. If they attempted to force entry, by barging past the person blocking the door, then yes, I think a police officer would be right to intervene were they present.

billy sol hurok
26th September 07, 09:03 AM
I'd give them quite a bit more time than the guy in the video got.

Presumably the person you're envisioning is a severely mentally ill person, who continues to rant even when I give them time to finish speaking and then done my best to answer any questions.
No, I'm envisioning your garden-variety zealot/asshole. He will not "finish speaking," and he's not there to propound a sincere question. He's there to SPEAK TRUTH TO POWER, viz., to bogart your conference with his own view, to the exclusion of all others. (It's my hypothetical, and I'm not giving this shithead -- er, dissident -- the benefit of a diminished-capacity defense.)


My first action after they've refused to stop talking and refused to leave would be to turn their mic off. Then I would adjourn the meeting as Kein Haar suggested. I would reconvene either somewhere else or back in the room if the person left. As it's an academic conference not relevant to the public at large, I would then refuse that person entry to any other rooms we had booked for use. If they attempted to force entry, by barging past the person blocking the door, then yes, I think a police officer would be right to intervene were they present.
What, no examination of "root causes"?

Seriously though, you'd play hide-and-go-seek with this asshole? You, the illustrious panelists (DAY flew for a day and a half to get there, you cad!), the rest of the audience; all pretending to amble away, whistling nonchalantly, in hopes that Johnny Agenda gets bored and leaves?

And then if he tried to come BACK you'd physically bar him, you fascist?

Okay, let's start again. Pretend he's wearing a Manchester United jersey . . .

Cullion
26th September 07, 10:31 AM
No, I'm envisioning your garden-variety zealot/asshole. He will not "finish speaking," and he's not there to propound a sincere question. He's there to SPEAK TRUTH TO POWER, viz., to bogart your conference with his own view, to the exclusion of all others. (It's my hypothetical, and I'm not giving this shithead -- er, dissident -- the benefit of a diminished-capacity defense.)

What, no examination of "root causes"?

Seriously though, you'd play hide-and-go-seek with this asshole? You, the illustrious panelists (DAY flew for a day and a half to get there, you cad!), the rest of the audience; all pretending to amble away, whistling nonchalantly, in hopes that Johnny Agenda gets bored and leaves?

And then if he tried to come BACK you'd physically bar him, you fascist?



Back to reality. The scenario you are imagining did not happen at the Meyer/Kerry event. It doesn't happen at academic conferences very often either. People who simply refuse to stop talking when you calmly let them ask their questions and then do your best to politely answer them are extremely rare.

The point at which force is required to your posited nut who invades my conference on the 'History of Agricultural Machinery 1654-1732', is the point at which the nut shows evidence of presenting a physical threat.

If you regard dealing with an awkward, rude audience member as simply an exercise in waiting until you have permission to use force, then you're working with a dangerous and unrealistic model of human nature.

Kein Haar
26th September 07, 12:23 PM
Presumably the person you're envisioning is a severely mentally ill person, who continues to rant even when I give them time to finish speaking and then done my best to answer any questions.

I'm trying to agree with the spirit of your posts, but now you're being purposely dense.

Cullion
26th September 07, 12:54 PM
I'm trying to agree with the spirit of your posts, but now you're being purposely dense.

No I'm not. I've never seen this fantasy scenario he's describing happen. Perhaps the behaviour he's talking about is common in the US.

T3hJudoChop
26th September 07, 03:45 PM
http://tazeelo.ytmnd.com/

that's all I got to add.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
26th September 07, 05:18 PM
I think you've become culturally acclimated to it. I don't think when you engage conscious reason you actually think that. I know you aren't a Nazi.

I think you're still confusing what I believe (that Santa Claus still exists) with what I know to be true (that what'shisface wasn't in his rights whether or not you or I agree with it).

Cullion
26th September 07, 05:22 PM
I think you're still confusing what I believe (that Santa Claus still exists) with what I know to be true (that what'shisface wasn't in his rights whether or not you or I agree with it).

He was charged with 'breach of the peace'. Do you really think the framers of the US constitution intended that to overrule the right to freedom of speach of somebody asking questions in a non-violent but hectoring manner of a public official for a few seconds at a political meeting on his college campus?

Fearless Ukemi
26th September 07, 05:33 PM
Just to throw some more fuel on this fire, I'd like to say that watching videos of people being tazed amuses me to no end.

DAYoung
26th September 07, 05:48 PM
Just to throw some more fuel on this fire, I'd like to say that watching videos of people being tazed amuses me to no end.

You amaze me, bro.

Matt W.
26th September 07, 06:15 PM
I didn't read this whole cluster of a thread. But I read some of it, and I have the following to add...

Once the guy was directed to leave and refused, he was tresspassing. That is where the cops have authority to intervene.

Kerry received no special treatment by the cops showing up and arresting that fool. If someone was causing a disturbance in Wallmart and refused the leave, they could call the cops and the cops would show up to escort the guy off the premises. Same thing if someone refused to leave your house.

Once the police were involved at the level, they were well within their rights and the suspects to respond appropriately to the suspects resistance. Which is exactly what happened.

There is nothing here. There is no special treatment for Kerry, or against the protestor. There is no free speach issue, at least on the part of the police.

That is all.

Cullion
26th September 07, 06:23 PM
I didn't read this whole cluster of a thread. But I read some of it, and I have the following to add...

Once the guy was directed to leave and refused, he was tresspassing.

When was he directed to leave in the video ? Who there had the right to make that call in the role of property owner on that students college campus ?



Kerry received no special treatment by the cops showing up and arresting that fool.

The police were already in attendance, waiting on hand. They simply moved in on him after he spoke for less than 10 seconds.



If someone was causing a disturbance in Wallmart and refused the leave, they could call the cops and the cops would show up to escort the guy off the premises. Same thing if someone refused to leave your house.

A student on his own college campus isn't intruding on private property.

Steve
26th September 07, 11:47 PM
LOL!!!!!?

UWMkoyntsT0

rcZig9Fkr1A

LOL, indeed.

Stick
27th September 07, 12:03 AM
Eets a seekrit!

Steve
27th September 07, 12:36 AM
jlCyRIj6Iug

lDTkTAo_l2g

Sun Wukong
27th September 07, 05:03 AM
I think what everyone is missing here is that the cops jumped him after he mentioned the "skull & bones" society.

So clearly, you see that this means right? The cops assumed he was crazy and was probably going to try to kill everyone with that paperback piece of crap in his hands.

Kein Haar
27th September 07, 10:31 AM
He was charged with 'breach of the peace'. Do you really think the framers of the US constitution intended that to overrule the right to freedom of speach of somebody asking questions in a non-violent but hectoring manner of a public official for a few seconds at a political meeting on his college campus?

I'm going to push for a new Amendment. We need to provide the right to screech and interrupt, in addition to protecting content.

nihilist
29th September 07, 01:07 AM
I think that Kent State proved two things:

1. We don't live in a free country.

2. When the cops tell you to STFU, just fucking do it.

Anna Kovacs
29th September 07, 02:02 AM
2. When the cops tell you to STFU, just fucking do it.


I generally concur with this, particularly in cases where there's no cause to be won. IE if I get pulled over I generally bat my eyelashes and act a little spacey and scared and drive off with a warning even if i happen to be driving with no license plate and no insurance, as the case was :)

But there is something to be said about standing up for ones greater individual rights. Perhaps it doesn't behoove the individual in the immediately sense to make a scene, but given the controversy caused over this one can hope that it will make people realize that they're not nearly as free as they'd like to think they are.

I'd like to think that if one gets enough cases like this that ultimately some greater awakening and changes will come of it.

Anna Kovacs
29th September 07, 02:06 AM
I found another video of the incident and the aftermath where the cops tell him that he's under arrest because he was trying to "incite a riot".

I mean really...come on.


Also I'm reading a thread on some other forum where a kid just got busted for drugs and happened to have some minor pyrotechnics in his room and they charged him with some terrorist shit as well as being a "manufacturer" of drugs because he was growing some mushrooms.

He's a fuckin 19 year old kid that still lives with mommy and daddy.

We're really seeing a trend here where law enforcement is cracking down on minor shit and maximizing the charges and it's complete poppy cock.

nihilist
29th September 07, 04:23 AM
The first rule is don't get caught doing illegal shit.

jvjim
29th September 07, 07:50 AM
Facts as they appear concerning events such as this, from the computer labs of UCLA to the muggy meeting halls of Gainsville, indicate that if you are a liberal college student, and if you should run afoul of an officer of the peace and refuse to submit to their instructions, you will be tazed. That is why I urge all young co-eds to, regardless of political affiliation, join their local Young Republicans chapter.

ironlurker
29th September 07, 09:16 AM
Young Republicans chapter.
If you're going to join, remember you'll need one of these, it's mandatory

http://www.monarch-garments.com/blazer2.jpg

Anna Kovacs
29th September 07, 09:22 AM
They should taze ho's before bro's.

Fearless Ukemi
29th September 07, 09:44 AM
^^Absolutely. It's even better when done mid sentence.



Cullion, show us on the doll where the bad policeman touched you.

ironlurker
29th September 07, 10:00 AM
They should taze ho's before bro's.
0fTJ1W0PM6I

zXJhTneBNm8

JaB7lJyZ9zg

tazed by bike cops, how humiliating

jvjim
29th September 07, 10:41 AM
Itís amazing how a little conservatism changes this: http://www.zatras.com/~share/images/TheFreeman/trouvailles/jeux/2007/03/kamini.jpg (http://www.zatras.com/%7Eshare/images/TheFreeman/trouvailles/jeux/2007/03/kamini.jpg)
into this:
http://www.m6info.fr/cms/upload/docs/image/jpeg/250307_kamini_blanc06.jpg.