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polishillusion
4th September 07, 06:54 PM
YuoiZnr4jLY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuoiZnr4jLY&mode=related&search


Steve, imprint this video for me.....

Anyway, instead of being a prick and trolling I have decided to bring up a serious issue for once. There is a court case brewing, over 6 black students of a high-school that beat up a white student, one of which is going to jail for 22 years!

They got into the fight in response to numerous racist and illegal things being done to the black community of their town, one black child was beaten by a white group of a similar size at a party a few days before and nothing was done to the group that attacked the black child.

The guy they beat up was so minimally damaged that he was out partying the night after the day he was beaten up. I personally think it is atrocious and disgusting what they are doing to these poor children..... a high school brawl because of tensed social issues in a little town is destroying at least one childs life.


Watch the video and comment plz.

.

NoMan
4th September 07, 09:11 PM
I signed a petition protesting it, (it's in my neck of the woods), and want to attend a rally being held outside the courtroom on Thursday at 8. Unfortunately, college dictates otherwise, but it's b.s. At most, simple assault with a 50 dollar fine and three hours of anger management therapy from what I remember of my high school fight experiences.

Sun Wukong
4th September 07, 09:21 PM
Well, you can't pick sides because of racial issues. How badly did those white kids hurt those black kids and which individuals met the requirements of Attempted Murder? Don't be fooled. Just because someone makes race an issue, it doesn't mean that race was ever an issue in the case in fact.

I don't think anyone, not even kids, should get off easy for violent crimes using race as an excuse.

Edit: What were the facts regarding the individual cases? That above video clip leaves alot of things out. It might just be that the kid deserves to go up the river for what he did and very clearly met the requirements for Attempted Murder.

SpringHeeledJack
4th September 07, 10:01 PM
I don't know how true it is, but on the news here they said the white kid was knocked out, fell to the ground, and was repeatedly kicked in the head while unconscious. I've always heard that kicking someone in the head while they're on the ground could be considered deadly force, but have never looked any further into it.

They didn't say how badly the black kid was beaten at the party. Actually, they didn't even mention the black kid getting beaten up at all.

Sun Wukong
4th September 07, 10:09 PM
Well jack, that's pretty much the definition of attempted murder. Guilty as charged. Usually first time offenders don't get in as much trouble, even in fucked up situations like that one. Do any of the defendants have priors?

SpringHeeledJack
4th September 07, 10:11 PM
Yeah, if that story is true, I see no problem with the charges against him either.

Sun Wukong
4th September 07, 10:12 PM
They didn't say how badly the black kid was beaten at the party. Actually, they didn't even mention the black kid getting beaten up at all.
Lack of details like this are very telling.

Edit: just found it. He has four prior offenses and two for battery; probably why he was being charged as an adult. Also, they've already reduced the crime to aggrevated battery, which is still a felony.

SpringHeeledJack
4th September 07, 10:15 PM
From wikipedia (I know, wikipedia sucks blah blah blah, but it seems to have more info than anywhere else).


the following Monday, December 4 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_4), a white student named Justin Barker, aged 17, loudly discussed - "bragged," as characterized by National Public Radio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Public_Radio) - how Bailey had been beaten up by a white man that Friday night.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jena_Six#_note-NPR) When Barker walked out of the school gymnasium into the courtyard later that day, he was assaulted by Bailey and five other black students, and was temporarily knocked unconscious. The concussion he suffered has been described in the media as resulting either from a punch to the face or from hitting his head on concrete when thrown to the ground. While on the ground, Barker was kicked repeatedly. Barker was examined by a doctor at the local hospital.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jena_Six#_note-stealth)[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jena_Six#_note-NPR) After two hours of treatment and observation for his concussion and an eye that had swollen shut, Barker was discharged in time to go to the school Ring Ceremony that evening.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jena_Six#_note-wapo) In the meantime the six black students, eventually dubbed the "Jena Six"[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jena_Six#_note-6), were arrested.It's going to be impossible to get an unbiased version of events on this thing.

Sun Wukong
4th September 07, 10:51 PM
I signed a petition protesting it, (it's in my neck of the woods), and want to attend a rally being held outside the courtroom on Thursday at 8. Unfortunately, college dictates otherwise, but it's b.s. At most, simple assault with a 50 dollar fine and three hours of anger management therapy from what I remember of my high school fight experiences.
"Four days after the arson, several students jumped a white classmate, Justin Barker, knocking him unconscious before stomping and kicking him."

"Barker was taken to the hospital with injuries to both eyes and ears as well as cuts. His right eye had blood clots, said his mother, Kelli Barker. Justin Barker was treated and released that day."

Does that sound like a $50 fine to you? No no, that's a serious assault with intent to do extreme harm to a person. There's a reason why things like this are taken so seriously.

As for racial epiphets being hurled, from my own past experiences from interracial school yard fights, I'm not so sure I believe it.

I've been in about 4 inter-racial fights with black and hispanic kids when I was a kid and in every instance not only did I completely not start that fight, but I sure as hell didn't use a racial slur. However, in every instance I was accused of using slurs because as soon as the guy whose ass just got whipped plays the race card, everyone suddenly thinks he was justified/attacked even if he attacked you for no good reason. He's instantly vindicated and the white kid is instantly villified.

Fuck that. I even had kids who were no where near me when the fight started saying they heard me using slurs.

What I'm saying isn't that I don't trust black kids over white kids. I'm saying I'm alot less likely to trust kids to own up to the truth of their actions when they are looking at getting in serious trouble. If you've ever been attacked by a group of kids for no good reason, then you know what I'm getting at here.

What the fuck were they scared of? A few nasty words when they obviously had the upper hand? Fuck 'em. Courts should have to kow-tow to mass hysteria?

Commodore Pipes
5th September 07, 08:36 AM
I thought the nooses that were hung from the tree in front of school started all the racial tension. Also, maybe the shotgun some white kids used to threaten a black kid. That might have exacerbated the situation.

But SpringHeeledJack is right. It's going to be impossible to get an unbiased version. For example, when I first heard about it, this is what stood out to me:




In September 2006, as the school year kicked off, a black Jena High School student asked the vice principal if he and some friends could sit under an oak tree where the white students typically congregated.

Told by the vice principal they could sit wherever they pleased, the student and his pals plopped down under the sprawling branches of a shade tree in the campus courtyard.

The next day, students arrived at school to find three nooses hanging from those branches...

... A series of scuffles ensued over the next three months as racial tension at the school became palpable.

The district attorney was summoned to address the student body. Off-campus fights were reported. Bailey said he had a beer bottle broken over his head in one incident, a shotgun pulled on him in another.




Original story here: http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/09/04/bell.jena.six/index.html?iref=newssearch


Now, I don't know if that's true, but if there's even a hint of that sort of menace - say, the shotgun was merely shown, instead of brandished - that still changes the dynamics than a few mean words.

EDIT: I just got this from wikipedia:



The following day, an incident apparently stemming from this fight occurred at a local convenience store. A student who had attended the party encountered Bailey and several friends. An argument ensued, after which the white student ran to his pickup truck (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickup_truck) and produced a pistol-grip shotgun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun). Bailey ran after the white student and wrestled him for control of the gun. Bailey's friends intervened in the scuffle and took the gun away. Bailey refused to return it and ultimately took it home with him. Local police reported that the accounts of the white student and black students contradicted each other and formed a report based on testimony taken from eyewitnesses. This resulted in Bailey being charged with three counts: theft of a firearm, second-degree robbery and disturbing the peace. The white student who had produced the weapon was not charged.



What the fuck is that? Maybe Bailey is trying to save his ass, but the legal record shows that the gun was there, it was present, and it belonged to a white boy. But the black kid gets charged in the incident, while the white boy goes free, in what is essentially a he said/she said situation.

SpringHeeledJack
5th September 07, 08:47 AM
Either dude was lying and he simply stole the shotgun then concocted that story to get out of it, or wow that's some fucked up shit. It says they formed a report based on eyewitness testimony and that's how dude was charged with stealing the gun. Were all the witnesses white co-conspirators?

Commodore Pipes
5th September 07, 09:21 AM
I don't know, but it would be interesting to find out. I'd also like to know if there were any witnesses to Bailey's account of the situation.

Sun Wukong
5th September 07, 03:54 PM
Also, you have to take into account whether or not the kid that got attacked was involved in any of the other commotion or if he was just unlucky enough to be overheard re-telling a story and got attacked because he merely recounted what happened; which, in my opinion, is just as likely as any event.

As for the shotgun, what were the eye-witness accounts of univolved 3rd parties?

Commodore Pipes
5th September 07, 04:08 PM
I'm actually not sure if there were uninvolved 3rd party witnesses.

Sun Wukong
5th September 07, 04:21 PM
Well, it happened at a convenience store so the store clerk must have heard something as well as the high potential for other witnesses.

As well, if the student ran to his pickup that indicates he was scared. If Bailey chased him to his truck, then that means the white kid was being threatened before he got the gun. It doesn't make sense for Bailey to have attacked him in self defense before he got his gun unless the guy that was running said he was getting the gun to begin with.

The only other option is that he charged him for control of the gun after it was brandished... which doesn't make sense because he's still alive.

Commodore Pipes
5th September 07, 04:24 PM
Well, it's all conjecture, but I am fully prepared to lay any race motivation at the door of white louisiana boys. That might be biased, but that's just the way I am.

Sun Wukong
5th September 07, 04:30 PM
Well, it's all conjecture, but I am fully prepared to lay any race motivation at the door of white louisiana boys. That might be biased, but that's just the way I am.

Did you know I am a white boy from Louisiana?

Edit: but to be fair there is ALOT of racism in louisiana. The biggest problem at this point is that poor black kids are coming from a history of oppression and are carrying that baggage with them while the minority of vocal white racist shit heads run around spouting off slurs while leaving innocent people to catch shit for it in their place.

Because one asshole had to spout that shit, frustrated and/or often equally dumb assholes on the opposite side of the isle use it as an excuse to take it out anybody they come across.

Commodore Pipes
5th September 07, 04:35 PM
No. But it explains your dogged defense of the white oppressors.

EDIT: But I see what you mean. Just because there are racists who are causing trouble, doesn't mean that the targets of retaliation actually had anything to do with it in the first place, and that it sort of becomes a self-fueling conflagration of racial hatred on both sides. Yeah, I can totally see that.

I wonder how many of Bailey's criminal charges all stem from the repercussions of that original noose threat.

Naszir
6th September 07, 01:05 PM
Jena is a very rural town with a very long history of racial issues in a region filled with them. The saying "Don't let the sun go down on your black ass" has come up several times. Race is still an issue in NELA. There are riots. The nooses in the trees and the beating are just symptoms of the problems. The Klan is alive and well but so are plenty of racists of the other races. A white friend (a hippie at that) was called a "blue-eyed devil".

As a testament of the racial issues, Huey P Newton of the Black Panthers People's Party is from Monroe, the largest city in the region. Please understand that there are a ton of factors at play here, poverty, history and the viciousness found in the area.

Sun Wukong
6th September 07, 03:10 PM
Ok, I lived in Ruston, very close to Monroe, for nearly a decade. Please understand, if a kid loses his shit and starts breaking the law violently, then his ass belongs in jail.

By the way, Monroe is totally not the largest town near Jena: Alexandria is.

Naszir
6th September 07, 03:29 PM
You're aimed the wrong way there, chief. I know you lived in Ruston, I lived in Ouachita Parish. Sorry to dismiss the Alec/Pineville Metroplex. I just don't think of them as a big town. I was just trying to say there is a backdrop to all this. There is a real sense of retaliation in anything racial in Louisiana (especially the northern part). That doesn't make it any less despicable just trying to explain the severity of the sentence and charges.

Commodore Pipes
6th September 07, 03:41 PM
Yeah, I'm all about violent offender going to jail. But the way this is portrayed, it
doesn't seem as though any of the white kids get in trouble.

The reality could very well differ from what I understand, in the limited info I get from media outlets. But the scariest part to me is not that the racial slurs are flung about. They have a way of showing up, and most of the time the don't even have anything to do with the cause of the fight. That's a no brainer. The scariest thing to me is that the law doesn't seem interested in arresting white people.

But you guys from Louisiana, you tell me: You say that racial retaliation is sort of a fact of life. Sure. That's the legacy of the U.S. But in your observation, is the law enforced equally?

Sun Wukong
6th September 07, 07:51 PM
But you guys from Louisiana, you tell me: You say that racial retaliation is sort of a fact of life. Sure. That's the legacy of the U.S. But in your observation, is the law enforced equally?
That's a difficult question to answer because the white community and black community have different criminal problems.

However, I've seen white kids with well connected families skate for shit they should have definitely gone to jail for, right up to homocide. Case in point:

1996 Louisiana Tech University:

John Lars Elfervig a member of a Delta Chi fraternity and a guy I only remember by the name of "Big Tony" (a 6'11 behemoth) were retaliating to a prank from a neighboring frat house belonging to Delta Kappa Epsilon by stealing the frat letters out of the DKE living room. Coolie Cates, the son of a Sr local cop, came down stairs and fatally shot Lars in the back of the head some 20 yards out of the house. That's right, Lars was already out of the house and running away from the scene when he was shot and killed after doing no harm and making no threats of harm.

Coolie Cates did NOT go to prison even though he had already satisfied the requirements for homocide. From what I remember, the local cops and DA did almost nothing to Cates after shooting a guy in the head. I believe the charge he got was discharging a firearm within city limits. WTF?

What this means for the Jena police, I don't know.

I could give another long list of examples when local police didn't do anything to prevent crimes in both communities, especially when the victims of the crimes are from poor families.

Naszir
6th September 07, 11:52 PM
You can also give examples of criminal sentences for drug charges being more extensive due to where they are from. You get a black kid from Monroe's South Side or Grambling or a white kid from Bawcomville and they will do more time than someone from a "non-trouble" neighborhood. From what I have seen, it is more about economic status than racial status, however, race is a big part of it as at least in Ouachita Parish, lethal force seems to be used more often against blacks than whites.


However, there may be other issues in those situations that I am unaware of. At one point there was an apartment complex, Parkview Apartments, where the cops rolled in several deep as they were attacked by some of the residents' male s.o.s.

Also, there are also feuding law enforcement agencies in that region. So the legal system there as in most of Louisiana is incredibly convoluted in the best case scenario and utterly corrupt in the worst case scenario. Yet another reason I no longer live there.

Sun Wukong
7th September 07, 12:10 AM
I think our opinions of that place are definitely on the same wave-length. I have friends and family there, but fuck it, if I were to have stayed there the place would have swollowed me whole. I never want to set foot there again if I can avoid it.

Great place to go to college though. Extremely inexpensive tuition for well acredited schools; hell, if you know how to work the system there, you can go to college at Tech for just a couple hundred dollars a month not counting living expenses.

If you're white, you can attend Grambling on a minority scholarship! TRUE STORY.

Naszir
11th September 07, 07:23 AM
Another of the defendants accepted a plea agreement. Also Rev Jesse Jackson has offered to lead a 40,000 strong march in Jena.

Source (http://www.thenewsstar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070911/NEWS01/709110337/1002/NEWS01)

Sun Wukong
11th September 07, 08:43 PM
Another of the defendants accepted a plea agreement. Also Rev Jesse Jackson has offered to lead a 40,000 strong march in Jena.

Source (http://www.thenewsstar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070911/NEWS01/709110337/1002/NEWS01)
WTF? Dude, that's retarded. Beat a white kid nearly to death who never harmed you, and you get your own 40,000 man march when your dumb ass goes to jail for it. That's a great fucking message.

Jesse Jackson, can know officially suck my cock.

Naszir
11th September 07, 09:06 PM
Chris, this is where you and I disagree. He wasn't nearly beaten to death. He was just beaten badly. Trust me, when you're nearly beaten to death you don't go to parties afterwards.

That said, they should be charged but the DA is inflating charges to be able to bargain down to a still serious charge. That's all it is, bargaining power. At least with drug charges it is easily quantifiable. Violent offenses it seems, not so much.

Sun Wukong
11th September 07, 09:56 PM
Chris, this is where you and I disagree. He wasn't nearly beaten to death. He was just beaten badly.
I don't think you understand what the implications of attempted murder are. The implication is that the attack or intended attack was serious enough to be fatal. Stomping on someone's head while they're unconcious IS ATTEMPTED murder and though he survived with relatively minor wounds, the attack could have killed him just the same. That's why I said, he was nearly beaten to death, because he could have as easily died.



That said, they should be charged but the DA is inflating charges to be able to bargain down to a still serious charge. No. That's not what happened. He was charged with attempted murder because the attack satisfied the requirements of attempted murder. He's a prosecutor, it's his job to prosecute crimes as they appear on the books. Plea bargaining would have happened regardless of the crime he was charged with whether or not the plea was accepted.



That's all it is, bargaining power. Yes, Jesse Jackson is playing the race card because it allows him to leverage his own political agenda. He's a douche. When the person he's reporting as a "victim" was the guy stomping on an unconscious kid's head who had done no personal harm to him whatsoever.


Violent offenses it seems, not so much.

This violent offense isn't so hard to quantify. Why? Because there is a shitload of precedence for ruling on them when the crime is attempted murder and the defendent was seen attacking an unconscious person which DOES satisfy the requirement for attempted murder charges in the state of louisiana.

Naszir
12th September 07, 08:42 AM
I see stomping someone who is unconscious as them just finishing the scrap. Other attempted murders made more sense than this one. Look at Booger Simpson. He ran his pregnant girlfriend off the road, dragged her out of the car and into the woods and beat her pretty nastily. They (Ouachita Parish) charged him with Attempted 2nd degree murder and attempted 3rd degree feticide.

Add to that the description of Agg Assault according to the Fed Sentencing Guidelines and you have a far stronger case for that charge than the inflated Attempted Murder charge. Check out the US sentencing guide chapter 2 section 1. It is pretty clear. Especially when intent is taken into account. Because if six guys can't beat one guy to death then it's either six cub scouts attacking a grown up or those guys did not intend to kill. Therefore it looks like agg assault. However, an attempted murder rap looks so much better in the papers for a DA to appear to be tough on crime and the sentence attached to it is more than enough to convince any kid to start shaking and take a crappy deal.

The charge he caught is less than what these guys did even though their's was just a beatdown. Perhaps my perspective is a bit skewed. We had a few big racial fights at my high school with black kids and white kids beating each other fairly nastily but the worst thing that happened was a few guys with rolls of quarters in their hands got expelled.

No criminal charges were filed and the incident was fairly well forgotten. I can't help but think that in light of the shotgun issue and the fact that Jena is a fairly racially charged town, that had it been a black kid who caught that beating, the DA would have pushed for agg assault from the start rather than attempted murder. As it went down the other way, we'll never know. Hopefully the boys will get a fair trial and the town can move on.

Sun Wukong
14th September 07, 12:59 AM
Well dude, you obviously feel differently about violent crime than I do. I make no bones about the way I feel about being wreckless with other people's lives and health. This kid went out of his way to pick fights and they were getting increasingly worse. That's how it fucking works with repeat offenders until they wind up in prison doing life without parole or taking a ride on the electric easy chair.

I don't give a shit about someone whose needlessly assaults people for no other reason than to protect his delicate little ego. Fuck 'em.

Naszir
14th September 07, 07:33 AM
I think you are absolutely right. I do feel differently about violent crime than you do. I feel that there are different levels of assault charges because there are varying degrees of violence, going from grabbing someone forcibly all the way up to ending their life with premeditation and intent. The laws take these degrees into account.

For example, a community involved, white professional in his 50's is blindsided and attacked by a young black man from another state. He is beaten on concrete and bitten to the point of him bleeding in broad daylight with children and women around. According to some reports, he was hospitalized for treatment. What charge would you say that warrants?

None, it was JFS and Osiris. Notice how when you look at it from one perspective it is a cut and dry vicious attack, but when you know what actually happened, it was far less substantial? I am not saying that kid didn't catch a beatdown, I'm just saying there is a difference between what happened and trying to kill someone.

I have no idea what your environment was growing up. Maybe it was because of my own background and upbringing that I look at things like this in a different light, I have no idea. But I do know that according to the description of the charges as well as the actual facts that have been released, it seems that the charges were punched up a bit in order to strongarm a plea agreement for the actual charge.

Also you seem to be under the impression that Agg Assault is a 40 hours of community service and $1000 fine type offense. Far from it. Agg Assault is a heavy charge and time will be done unless there is some form of deferral (although this is highly doubtful). And by time I mean years. Not as many as Att Murder but still enough to totally change those boys. Hunt, DCI, DR Wade or wherever they go are not country clubs, man. They will definitely be punished. I just think the Att Murder charge is excessive and wrong. Just remember, while those boys are serving their time, the white kid who got beaten up will be out and free. I think that means he wins.

Sun Wukong
16th September 07, 12:03 AM
None, it was JFS and Osiris. Notice how when you look at it from one perspective...
When you look at it from a completely intellectually dishonest perspective, yes.



...according to the description of the charges as well as the actual facts that have been released, it seems that the charges were punched up a bit in order to strongarm a plea agreement for the actual charge....
Hearsay, the fact is a bunch of kids stomped on another unconscious kids head which any fool can tell you is a potentially lethal attack. Similar attacks involving blows to head of a person after unconciousness has warranted attempted murder charges. Additionally, this kid was a repeat violent offender and it seems clear to me he didn't care if he seriously hurt anyone.



Also you seem to be under the impression that Agg Assault is a 40 hours of community service and $1000 fine type offense. Far from it. Agg Assault is a heavy charge and time will be done unless there is some form of deferral (although this is highly doubtful).
Well you'd be wrong then wouldn't you. I think there are people who belong in society and then there are certain people who don't, and I really don't care what happens to the 2nd set of people at all.



And by time I mean years.
Steve Buscemi was stabbed in the head and throat but his attacker only got 180 days after a plea bargain and attempted murder charges were reduced to attack with a deadly weapon.




They will definitely be punished. Wrong again, the charges were dropped recently because Louisiana can't afford a race riot. I repeat, Jesse Jackson can go fuck himself.



I just think the Att Murder charge is excessive and wrong. Just remember, while those boys are serving their time, the white kid who got beaten up will be out and free. I think that means he wins.
Oh really? Now this pisses me off to no end. He wins? What the fuck did he win? Two black eyes, a concussion, and a broken nose? A reminder he's only a damn fool away from a trip to the morgue? No thanks, I think I'll hold out for curtain #2 Monte.

Sh0t
16th September 07, 12:03 PM
That's why I don't go to the south. I'm keeping my cosmopolitan self on the coasts

Sun Wukong
16th September 07, 05:40 PM
I need to make a concession here: they are probably not going to be charged in an adult court, it looks like they will be charged in juvenile court but they haven't told anyone what charges they will face there.

Naszir
16th September 07, 06:08 PM
Chris, the intellectual dishonesty i displayed was no less than yours in the leaving out of the shotgun incident as a mitigating factor. As for the 180 days served by the guy who attacked Buscemi, it was not in Louisiana where the minimum sentence is 5 years with the use of a weapon it becomes 10 years minimum unless they are somehow sentenced to a parish facility.

Also, thanks for retracting the bit about the charges being dropped. The appeal that went through was that the minor be charged and tried as a minor rather than tried and convicted as an adult. Thank you for keeping the discussion honest about this.

As for any fool knowing it is a potentially lethal attack, will we be seeing pitchers booked for the same thing when they hit another player in the chest? As these have had multiple deaths, and the intent of harm is definitely there. Equally ridiculous as charging these offenders with intent to kill.

Please understand, a violent offense needs to be dealt with but there is a far cry from giving a beatdown and beating someone with the intent to kill. That was my issue. Not the fact that they are facing punishment but that the punishment for the charge seems far more than is warranted by the offense. I think five years (minimum) is enough time to serve instead of fifteen (minimum) for it.

jubei33
16th September 07, 07:24 PM
Context matters in most situations. This works both ways. His prior record matters as well as (probable) prior actions of white students. Shotgun incident needs to be looked into. That is as serious a crime as assault.

Punishment needs to be handed down, but 22 years is excessive.

Sun Wukong
17th September 07, 01:02 AM
Chris, the intellectual dishonesty i displayed was no less than yours in the leaving out of the shotgun incident as a mitigating factor.
Excuse me? The kid they attacked wasn't even involved in that incident and according to police he instigated that one too.



As for the 180 days served by the guy who attacked Buscemi, it was not in Louisiana where the minimum sentence is 5 years with the use of a weapon it becomes 10 years minimum unless they are somehow sentenced to a parish facility. Which is almost uniformly what happens.



Also, thanks for retracting the bit about the charges being dropped. The appeal that went through was that the minor be charged and tried as a minor rather than tried and convicted as an adult. Thank you for keeping the discussion honest about this. Honesty is the common language of civilized society.



As for any fool knowing it is a potentially lethal attack, will we be seeing pitchers booked for the same thing when they hit another player in the chest?
there really are alot of things wrong with that statement. I'll enumerate a few of them:

1. Being hit with a ball is an accepted risk of playing baseball. People trying to crush in your skull is NOT a generally accepted risk of story telling.

2. Pitchers who hit pepole with balls typically do it on accident. In what scenario can you think of where punching someone in the head and then repeatedly stomping and kicking them in the head while they're unconcious with 5 other guys is purely accidental in nature?

3. I wonder what the ratio of people struck dead by baseballs vs the number of people struck dead by repeated blows to the head are? My bet is, that death by baseball is on the relatively rare side when compared to the incidence of people being bludgeoned to death.


As these have had multiple deaths, and the intent of harm is definitely there. Equally ridiculous as charging these offenders with intent to kill.

Have you ever played baseball? I mean, seriously, in what world do you live in where people die frequently from being hit by a baseball? If you play the game, eventually you are going to get hit just by happenstance. If you like the game and play against enoug shitty pitchers you'll probably get hit a few times. Death, is really fucking uncommon in that scenario.

Multiple people, stomping and kicking you in the head while you're unconscious is another fucking thing entirely. A seventeen year old kid who plays football is plenty big enough to horribly injure someone who is unconcious by stomping on their head, let alone when accompanied by multiple other people.

Fuck, how old was Vitor when he KO'd Tank Abbot in like 30 seconds? Nineteen, I think.



Please understand, a violent offense needs to be dealt with but there is a far cry from giving a beatdown and beating someone with the intent to kill.

2nd degree homocide is when people intentionally attack other people without having the intent to kill them before hand but do kill them in the act; that's 1st degree homocide or otherwise known as premeditated homocide. To distinguish homocide from manslaughter the DA has to prove that the assailant used a form of attack that a rational person would believe to be lethal at the time of the attack.

Basically, 2nd degree homocide is a "crime of passion" wherein someone attacks someone lethally during the heat of the moment. Attempted homocide, is attacking someone is attacked with an otherwise lethal attack but fails to kill.

There is precedence for miles to support attempted murder charges for continuing to bludgeon people after they are unconcious especially when it involves. It IS by it's very nature, well within the definition for attempted murder. I don't give a shit what they were thinking about before hand, but mob violence against a single unarmed kid seems to me like a pretty fucking serious offence.

He doesn't belong in school, he belongs in fucking jail.



That was my issue. Not the fact that they are facing punishment but that the punishment for the charge seems far more than is warranted by the offense. Obviously.



I think five years (minimum) is enough time to serve instead of fifteen (minimum) for it.
I agree, but he'll probably be out in 3 months from juvie and go right back to this stupid gangster wanna be shit in no time.

Naszir
19th September 07, 08:23 AM
The baseball reference was meant to be ridiculous as the assertion that this was lethal.

I think you and I have had two very different experiences dealing with the criminal justice system in Louisiana. Most of the major violent felons are sent through DCI and are put into state facilities. The usual procedure as I understand it is to relegate lesser offenders to parish facilities except when they are being housed by parish facilities but their custody is paid for by the state rather than the parish. (Think Orleans Parish jail or Ouachita Correctional Center)

Have you ever taken a beating? Known anyone who has? Of all the beatings I personally know of only two ended in death and both were due to the use of weapons as opposed to numerous ones that ended in one person having a few bad weeks except one case where a bottle was used and permanent brain damage was incurred. All of this points to it being a fairly non-lethal ordeal.

Yes they belong in jail for what they did, but again I say, Attempted Murder is too big a charge. Agg Assault is what is warranted. Racial tensions and public outcry in the area I believe led to the most severe charge possible to be laid against them.

I hope that the public outcry from the opposing side doesn't prevent these boys from being punished for this crime. They deserve time, pure and simple, and on this we both definitely agree. But the five years minimum sentence to me is sufficient. The issue though is due to the minor status. I am not sure if there is a 21 years old catch rule or not. I hope there is.

kismasher
20th September 07, 02:26 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070920/ap_on_re_us/school_fight

Anybody following this story right now?

I'm amazed that Jesse and or Al have any credibility left to make these statements after the Duke Lacrosse debacle. Wonder if Jesse is still gonna pay that stripper's tuition?

I'm failing to see the reason for supporters to march in this case. Hanging a noose in a tree is reprehensible but not a crime. Perhaps the attempted murder charge is too severe as well, but taking the stance that the Jena 6 are being unfairly prosecuted is verifiably racist and agenda motivated.

Yiktin Voxbane
20th September 07, 02:49 PM
More info here in Video forum (http://www.sociocide.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48024)

Neildo
20th September 07, 02:52 PM
Heard on the news last night that David Bowie threw $10,000 at the Jena Six' legal defence.

edit: found a link

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iIs7BlqlbOcI-_Jj9tEmcWt-1x8g

Steve
20th September 07, 02:59 PM
Merged threads...

kismasher
21st September 07, 11:00 AM
http://www.kansascity.com/sports/columnists/jason_whitlock/story/284511.html

Jason Whitlock reiterates some facts from the case that didn't seem to make the OP video.

I've been a fan of Whitlock for a long time, even before he started tackling race issues.

I do think the sentencing was too severe and the noose hangers should probably have been expelled.

You want to post about a real tragedy? Google Genarlow Wilson.

SpringHeeledJack
21st September 07, 02:52 PM
One of my classes today devolved into an argument over this shit. I was (kind of) threatened with a beating for disagreeing with a particularly large black dude's opinion on the matter (I totally could have taken him).

kismasher
21st September 07, 02:59 PM
One of my classes today devolved into an argument over this shit. I was (kind of) threatened with a beating for disagreeing with a particularly large black dude's opinion on the matter (I totally could have taken him).


you're a fucking cracker that deserves a beating. cracker.

Neildo
21st September 07, 03:19 PM
that woulda been a hate crime you cracka-ass cracka

SpringHeeledJack
21st September 07, 03:20 PM
you're a fucking cracker that deserves a beating. cracker.Word.

billy sol hurok
21st September 07, 03:22 PM
http://www.kansascity.com/sports/columnists/jason_whitlock/story/284511.html

Jason Whitlock reiterates some facts from the case that didn't seem to make the OP video.
For instance:


Reed Walters, the Jena district attorney, is being accused of racism because he didn’t show Bell compassion when the teenager was brought before the court for the third time on assault charges in a two-year span.


Where was our compassion long before Bell got into this kind of trouble?


That’s the question that needed to be asked in Jena and across the country on Thursday. But it wasn’t asked because everyone has been lied to about what really transpired in the small southern town.


There was no “schoolyard fight” as a result of nooses being hung on a whites-only tree.


Justin Barker, the white victim, was cold-cocked from behind, knocked unconscious and stomped by six black athletes. Barker, luckily, sustained no life-threatening injuries and was released from the hospital three hours after the attack.


A black U.S. attorney, Don Washington, investigated the “Jena Six” case and concluded that the attack on Barker had absolutely nothing to do with the noose-hanging incident three months before. The nooses and two off-campus incidents were tied to Barker’s assault by people wanting to gain sympathy for the “Jena Six” in reaction to Walters’ extreme charges of attempted murder.

Much has been written about Bell’s trial, the six-person all-white jury that convicted him of aggravated battery and conspiracy to commit aggravated battery and the clueless public defender who called no witnesses and offered no defense. It is rarely mentioned that no black people responded to the jury summonses and that Bell’s public defender was black.

When these six assholes are the best you can come up with as a cause celebre for the civil rights movement . . . well, you've pretty much run out of poster children. Which is kind of good news, I guess.

Kein Haar
21st September 07, 08:45 PM
Steve,

There are plenty more worthy cause celebres, and plenty of oppressors:

From a buddy's teaching 'blog' from a Jacksonville Community College...

So the first round of paper drafts went back this morning. Out of 120 students 40 handed in required drafts. I had 20 people e-mail me about flat tires on Friday morning. Ok, so the drafts sucked. One kid refered to proponents of gay marriage as being "fucking assholes" and another used the word "foshizzle" is his paper. Whatever. So I give my shape up or ship the fuck out speel for 10 minutes, remind everyone they're not special little flowers, and then go over the problems, then the papers go back.

Now I had a really shitty day, was up at 5 after 3 hours of sleep, and just felt like having a coffee and reading the paper and some Pynchon in the office. No such l. First vistor was this little Taiwanese girl who I can't understand a fucking WORD from. This is what I gathered:

Duke: "Where's your draft?"
Taiwanese chick: "dwaft?"
D: "Draft."
T: "No undastand."
D: "Your draft, it was required, it was on the assignment sheet."
T: "No read assignment thing I think."
D: "Excuse me?"
T: "Paper?"
D: "What about it?"
T: "You give me note what you say no undastand talk in room."
D: "I'm not following."
T: "Law you give me note you say or dean will."
D: "I don't understand."
T: "No paper. Bad writer."
D: "Well, that's why you hand in a draft."
T: "Dwaft?"
D: "A first version of the paper."
T: "When due?"
D: "Last Friday."
T: "No."
D: "Everyone picked up the assingment sheet."
T: "Can't read it sheet."

Another kid wanted his three abscence excused because he'd be in jail. He agrued that "that shit be excused, man." No it's not, actually. I showed him the school policy. "That's racist bullshit."
"It's school policy. Being in jail isn't an excused abscence."
"Bullshit."
"Take it up with the dean."
"I had my ass in jail for hitting a cop."
"I don't care."
"Obviously."
"You can't miss anymore or you'll get thrown out."
"Give a brother a break."
"I am giving you a break. I could withdraw you now. You have another chance."
"I need more if there's more trouble."

By the time I get home MWF I just want to have a drink and sleep. At UF last year I had a student come by to ask me if I felt Postmodern was passe and that hypermodernism was more in vogue. Today I had a kid ask me what a paragraph was. It's like Dangerous Minds, only I have graduate degrees and I'm getting paid less than the chick in the movie was. And I can't do karate. Man, Coolio needs to do a song about this.

************************************************** ***************
So I nearly lost it in class today. The chick that was in last week to help me with the Web demonstration was back. The 8am class doesn't take well to any kind of work unless I'm yelling at them. So this chick Starleigh is helping Duke out, when one kid points to her and says, quite loudly, "I'd toss her down and fuck her hard in her pink asshole." So I walk over, not very calmly, and hear him refer to her as "white fucking bitch."
"Out."
"What?"
"Get the fuck out."
"Why?"
"I swear to God, if you don't leave this fucking class ..."
"I'm already leaving."
"Don't even come back Friday."
"Will I still get the attendence?"
"No. We'll deal with this next week. I don't even want to see your face for the rest of this week."
"If I have another absence I won't get my A!"
(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! )
"That's the least of your concerns right now. Out!"
"This bullshit, son!"

Don't even get me going on my talk with the Dean about fuckhead, who, I wa told, I need to respect because of his anger issues toward white people.

Did I mention the other kid who wanted his absences excused because he'd been in jail? He came in 40 minutes late this morning, sat down, and fell asleep. He was really surprised when I threw him out. "Give a brother a break, my man!

My fucking God. By 2:30pm I'd completely blown my voice out from yelling at people. And I also share my office during the later morning with this Latina chatterbox from FSU who has to tell me how sick she is of white men and black men fighting over her, how she's not just a sex object (mind you she's tipping the scales at 300lbs or so), and that her boyfriend is 60 but SO young at heart. My afternoon office mate is some chick in her 50s who has to fucking yabber at me about how none of the stuff that goes on in classes today would've flown back in her day.

Question!
21st September 07, 11:59 PM
http://encyclopediadramatica.com/images/1/1f/Negro_community.jpg

http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Jena_Six

polishillusion
24th September 07, 10:00 PM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=OAZQlgPO8qc


hippy mindset imploding.


reality settling in.

OOPS

Anna Kovacs
24th September 07, 10:58 PM
Well if nothing else he looks like someone who should be in jail for stupidity.

Sun Wukong
25th September 07, 01:19 AM
Well if nothing else he looks like someone who should be in jail for stupidity.

which 'he'?

Anna Kovacs
25th September 07, 07:58 AM
Robert Bailey of the Jena 6 : http://youtube.com/watch?v=OAZQlgPO8qc

Racial disparities in the justice system are a very real thing but...man..that kid is just dense.

Dagon Akujin
25th September 07, 06:03 PM
At UF last year I had a student come by to ask me if I felt Postmodern was passe and that hypermodernism was more in vogue. Today I had a kid ask me what a paragraph was.

OMG! Kids like that should be expelled.... er, I mean executed.

LI GUY 1
29th September 07, 02:21 AM
Why can blacks protest for other blacks freedom when regardless of intentions those kids jumped someone? Imagine if white people did that?

Hell imagine if white people did ANYTHING to support another white guy, we would all be racist. But it seems like minorities can support their own race no matter what and be labeled struggling heroes.

Those guys supporting the Jena 6 need to be recognized as racists or extreme ethnocentrist assholes.

Cullion
30th September 07, 06:32 AM
The game being played here is called 'divide and conquer'.