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Steve
2nd August 07, 06:54 PM
Russia to sink flag to Arctic Sea floor in oil, land grab

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i141/forstevee/fedorov.gifMOSCOW, Russia (AP) -- An expedition aimed at strengthening Russia's claim to much of the oil and gas wealth beneath the Arctic Ocean reached the North Pole on Wednesday, and preparations immediately began for two mini-submarines to drop a capsule containing a Russian flag to the sea floor.

The Rossiya icebreaker had plowed a path to the pole through an unbroken sheet of multiyear ice, clearing the way for the Akademik Fedorov research ship to follow, said Sergei Balyasnikov, a spokesman for the Arctic and Antarctic research institute that prepared the expedition.

"For the first time in history people will go down to the sea bed under the North Pole," Balyasnikov told The Associated Press. "It's like putting a flag on the moon."

Russian scientists hope to dive in two mini-submarines beneath the pole to a depth of more than 13,200 feet, and drop a metal capsule containing the Russian flag on the sea bed. Video Watch the factors fueling the arctic oil race (http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/08/01/arctic.grab.ap/index.html#cnnSTCVideo)

Balyasnikov said the dive was expected to start Thursday morning and last for several hours.

The voyage, led by noted polar explorer and Russian legislator Artur Chilingarov, has some scientific goals, including the study of Arctic plants and animals. But its chief goal appears to be advancing Russia's political and economic influence by strengthening its legal claims to the gas and oil deposits thought to lie beneath the Arctic sea floor.

The symbolic gesture, along with geologic data being gathered by expedition scientists, is intended to prop up Moscow's claims to more than 460,000 square miles of the Arctic shelf -- which by some estimates may contain 10 billion tons of oil and gas deposits.

The expedition reflects an intense rivalry between Russia, the United States, Canada and other nations whose shores face the northern polar ocean for the Arctic's icebound riches.

About 100 scientists aboard the Akademik Fyodorov are looking for evidence that the Lomonosov Ridge -- a 1,240-mile underwater mountain range that crosses the polar region -- is a geologic extension of Russia, and therefore can be claimed by it under the U.N. Convention on the Law of the Sea.

The subs will collect specimens of Arctic plants and animals and videotape the dives.

The biggest challenge, scientists say, will be for the mini-sub crews to return to their original point of departure to avoid being trapped under a thick ice crust.

"They have all the necessary navigation equipment to ensure safety," Balyasnikov said.

Denmark hopes to prove that the Lomonosov Ridge is an extension of the Danish territory of Greenland, not Russia. Canada, meanwhile, plans to spend $7 billion to build and operate up to eight Arctic patrol ships in a bid to help protect its sovereignty.

The U.S. Congress is considering an $8.7 billion budget reauthorization bill for the U.S. Coast Guard that includes $72.96 million to operate and maintain the nation's three existing polar icebreakers. The bill also authorizes the Coast Guard to construct two new vessels.

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Link. (http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/08/01/arctic.grab.ap/index.html)

Wow, countries still have to place flags in order to claim territory... How quaint.

OZZ
2nd August 07, 08:25 PM
In light of the Russian's past history with submarines, you can bet this will be yet another disaster...

ICY
2nd August 07, 10:40 PM
Harper's attention to this issue has not been in vain. I think that Canada should create outposts along the northern coast of Greenland and tell Denmark "We're bigger, fuck off" while speading propaganda and pumping billions into setting up charities in Greenland's native communities to encourage the independence of Greenland with the guarantee of Canadian money to support their social institutions.

We can't bully the Russians, but we can force the Americans to restrict their claims to areas the Russians also want, forcing them to compete (and win the competition) with American claims in the west, while giving ourselves an overall stronger presence in the region by locking down the east. This would force the Russians to, after showing up the Americans in the west, negotiate exclusively with us and hammer out and agreement to divide the Arctic circle between us.

The_Tao
2nd August 07, 11:08 PM
No one should claim antartica. period,espiaclly not russia.

Steve
2nd August 07, 11:40 PM
Sorry, I already claimed it.

Neildo
3rd August 07, 01:27 AM
tao, the antarctic is the south pole....

fes_fsa
3rd August 07, 01:28 AM
tao, the antarctic is the south pole....

that's why russia shouldn't claim it.

they're too far up.

Neildo
3rd August 07, 01:32 AM
the russians already have siberia. i'm sure the last thing they want is more frozen tundra.

Steve
3rd August 07, 01:37 AM
People! I already said that it's mine.

DAYoung
3rd August 07, 04:08 AM
I used the arctic for ice in my scotch whiskey.

All of it.

Steve
3rd August 07, 04:22 AM
No wonder you got drunk.

DAYoung
3rd August 07, 04:31 AM
i love yuo stve

Steve
3rd August 07, 04:34 AM
<3, night.

bad credit
3rd August 07, 05:17 AM
I'd rather we spent more on renewable energy sources.

DAYoung
3rd August 07, 05:36 AM
Love is renewable.

Kiko
3rd August 07, 06:27 AM
This would force the Russians to, after showing up the Americans in the west, negotiate exclusively with us and hammer out and agreement to divide the Arctic circle between us.

Are you sure you want the Russians to 'hammer out'?

ICY
3rd August 07, 06:38 AM
Are you sure you want the Russians to 'hammer out'?

As long as they it doesn't make'em sickle.

Commodore Pipes
3rd August 07, 08:22 AM
Uh, the Russians wouldn't show up the U.S. They're nothing but a nation of filthy drunks and dirty whores. Throughout the eighties, I thought that Reagan was a dirty propagandist, perpetuating an unreasonable view of the USSR to further his own agenda. I still believe that, but now I wonder if he wasn't accidentally right, but for the wrong reasons.

OZZ
3rd August 07, 09:10 AM
Harper's attention to this issue has not been in vain. I think that Canada should create outposts along the northern coast of Greenland and tell Denmark "We're bigger, fuck off" while speading propaganda and pumping billions into setting up charities in Greenland's native communities to encourage the independence of Greenland with the guarantee of Canadian money to support their social institutions.

We can't bully the Russians, but we can force the Americans to restrict their claims to areas the Russians also want, forcing them to compete (and win the competition) with American claims in the west, while giving ourselves an overall stronger presence in the region by locking down the east. This would force the Russians to, after showing up the Americans in the west, negotiate exclusively with us and hammer out and agreement to divide the Arctic circle between us.

Sounds good to me.
But why would a separatist care about such matters?
Actually, the Northwest passage is of more concern to me than the Arctic circle itself. We need to make our presence felt there with a bit more attitude.
The government never needed the Inuit population as much as they do now lol.

Neildo
3rd August 07, 10:42 AM
Friday, August 03, 2007

Two Russian mini-subs successfully descended more than four kilometres to the North Pole seabed early Thursday, a flag-planting feat hailed by expedition leaders as an historic achievement akin to the first moon landing, but mocked in Canada by Foreign Affairs Minister Peter MacKay as "just a show" of Russian bravado and "no threat to Canadian sovereignty."

In fact, MacKay appeared to be confused Thursday about the legal status of the North Pole, which he bluntly described at one point as "Canadian property."

The pole's waters are, in fact, "high seas" beyond any one nation's jurisdiction, and its seafloor is part of a huge Arctic area that the five polar countries -- Canada, Russia, the U.S., Norway and Denmark (which governs Greenland) -- are competing for under UN Law of the Sea protocols for possible ownership and potentially lucrative petroleum rights.

Yet Russia's dive is widely seen as a symbol of its determination to eventually claim an Ontario-sized swath of the Arctic Ocean floor -- and control what may be vast reserves of oil and gas.

Expert observers in this country say the apparent ease with which the Russians reached the North Pole and carried out such a descent is a clear indication of just how far behind Canada is in being able to assert its own territorial claims in the Arctic.

MacKay, in a televised interview just hours after the Russian announcement, said: "This isn't the 15th century. You can't go around the world and just plant flags and say, 'We're claiming this territory.'

"There is no threat to Canadian sovereignty in the Arctic ... we're not at all concerned about this mission -- basically it's just a show by Russia," he said.

But MacKay may have inadvertently contradicted decades of international polar law on Thursday, saying the entire Arctic, including the waters and subsea territory around the North Pole, are Canadian "property."

"The question of sovereignty of the Arctic is not a question," he said speaking in French. "It's clear. It's our country. It's our property. It's our water ... The Arctic is Canadian."

The area around the North Pole is considered international territory. Canada has historically only claimed sovereignty over the continental shelf, as it extends 200 miles northward from Canada's Arctic archipelago.

Russia's flag-planting mission follows a claim made by its scientists last month that the Lomonosov Ridge -- an underwater mountain chain that runs across the Arctic Ocean between Russia and Canada -- is geologically linked to Russia, giving it ownership of a sprawling, resource-rich area of the polar seafloor under a UN convention governing undersea territorial claims.

Billions of dollars in oil and gas deposits are believed to lie beneath the Arctic seabed, and all five nations with Arctic coastlines -- Canada, Russia, the U.S., Norway and Denmark, which governs Greenland -- are angling to secure subsurface rights in the region.

http://www.canada.com/reginaleaderpost/news/story.html?id=55f5b74e-3728-4245-97ed-f6713c3f1bb8&k=40585

Sun Wukong
3rd August 07, 03:47 PM
LOL @ COLD WAR II

Ok, but seriously...

Russia claiming the artic ocean/north pole would be like the US claiming to own the gulf of mexico. Maritime law is very clear about it so planting a flag there is preposterous bullshit. This is like Japan using a few million tons of sand to make a shallow spot in the Pacific so they can extend their national waters to take control of korean/chinese fishing, shipping lanes and drilling operations; its expansionistic bullshit worthy of the 1700's europe, but totally uncalled for a modern nation.

The problem with bullshit like this, is that if they can make even the most stretched and marginal argument that the land is theirs, they will still claim the territory regardless of protests. Putin sure is a dirty little fucker.

ICY
3rd August 07, 05:29 PM
Sounds good to me.
But why would a separatist care about such matters?
Actually, the Northwest passage is of more concern to me than the Arctic circle itself. We need to make our presence felt there with a bit more attitude.
The government never needed the Inuit population as much as they do now lol.

I believe that no matter the amount of sovereignty extended to the provinces, a common foreign policy is essential. I believe Canadian provinces should have different laws, different prison systems, different healthcare, transfer payments should stop, and a host of other issues, but that the military and foreign policy should remain common.


"The question of sovereignty of the Arctic is not a question," he said speaking in French. "It's clear. It's our country. It's our property. It's our water ... The Arctic is Canadian."


I heart Peter MacKay, future PM.


Uh, the Russians wouldn't show up the U.S.

They'll spend more than you will on this, and use their military to assert their claims, not private investment.

Commodore Pipes
6th August 07, 10:57 AM
They'll spend more than you will on this, and use their military to assert their claims, not private investment.

Perhaps, but short of a full out nuclear exchange, the idea that the U.S. would loose is laughable, man. The only way the Russia could possibly beat us is if they gave us equipment to use.

Shu2jack
6th August 07, 05:04 PM
I dunno, a bunch of terrorists in the desert are causing us enough grief.

danno
7th August 07, 08:16 AM
i say australia should claim the south pole.

and new zealand.

Shawarma
7th August 07, 08:33 AM
Finding vast treasures of natural resources in the frozen wastes of the arctics and the north pole is a pipe dream as far as I can tell. We've been hearing about this for decades now and with only minimal actual results, with the extraction facilities being very expensive to maintain and man to boot due to the climate and isolation.

Still, Russia's really picking up speed lately. Might become a major player again sooner than expected.

Commodore Pipes
7th August 07, 09:11 AM
I dunno, a bunch of terrorists in the desert are causing us enough grief.

That's true, but we're talking about RUSSIA. They are the embarrassing drunk uncle of nations. Do you think you could convince a Russian to be a suicide bomber? They'd wait till you left and laugh at you and get loaded on industiral solvents.

The_Tao
7th August 07, 05:35 PM
i say australia should claim the south pole.

and new zealand.

I'm sat the vatacan should.

Ice cold pope FTW!

Kiko
7th August 07, 05:44 PM
Popesicle?

SpringHeeledJack
7th August 07, 09:55 PM
I'm sat the vatacan should.

I don't understand.

Hedley LaMarr
8th August 07, 08:22 PM
The Russians claimed the North Pole? Perhaps we should clone Reagan and teach these commies who's boss!

USA!!!!!!!

Anywho, I thought that the Arctic was declared off limits by the UN or something? Or was the Antarctica? It was probably Antarctica.