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View Full Version : NOTE TO SELF: do not eat the steamed buns in China



Steve
12th July 07, 02:08 PM
So more and more lovely stories are coming out of China regarding cutting corners when not only making food products/ingredients for pets etc, but now one for the human consumers:

Beijing Steamed Buns Include Cardboard
Report: Cardboard Main Ingredient in Steamed Buns Sold As Beijing Street Food
BEIJING Jul 12, 2007 (AP)

http://a.abcnews.com/images/International/BEJ10107120717_ms.jpegChopped cardboard, softened with an industrial chemical and flavored with fatty pork and powdered seasoning, is a main ingredient in batches of steamed buns sold in one Beijing neighborhood, state television said.

The report, aired late Wednesday on China Central Television, highlights the country's problems with food safety despite government efforts to improve the situation.

Countless small, often illegally run operations exist across China and make money cutting corners by using inexpensive ingredients or unsavory substitutes. They are almost impossible to regulate.

State TV's undercover investigation features the shirtless, shorts-clad maker of the buns, called baozi, explaining the contents of the product sold in Beijing's sprawling Chaoyang district.

Baozi are a common snack in China, with an outer skin made from wheat or rice flour and and a filling of sliced pork. Cooked by steaming in immense bamboo baskets, they are similar to but usually much bigger than the dumplings found on dim sum menus familiar to many Americans.

The hidden camera follows the man, whose face is not shown, into a ramshackle building where steamers are filled with the fluffy white buns, traditionally stuffed with minced pork.

The surroundings are filthy, with water puddles and piles of old furniture and cardboard on the ground.

"What's in the recipe?" the reporter asks. "Six to four," the man says.

"You mean 60 percent cardboard? What is the other 40 percent?" asks the reporter. "Fatty meat," the man replies.

The bun maker and his assistants then give a demonstration on how the product is made.

Squares of cardboard picked from the ground are first soaked to a pulp in a plastic basin of caustic soda a chemical base commonly used in manufacturing paper and soap then chopped into tiny morsels with a cleaver. Fatty pork and powdered seasoning are stirred in.

Soon, steaming servings of the buns appear on the screen. The reporter takes a bite.

"This baozi filling is kind of tough. Not much taste," he says. "Can other people taste the difference?"

"Most people can't. It fools the average person," the maker says. "I don't eat them myself."

The police eventually showed up and shut down the operation.

-----------------------------------

Link. (http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=3369294)

I really wish that there was something that could be done about crap like this. But it does seem pretty obvious that it is a problem with no easy, if any, solution.

Neildo
12th July 07, 02:22 PM
I know a place up here that makes kickass siopao. no cardboard.


Oh man, i just remembered when Chris Ketchens wife told me about counterfeit eggs when we first met.

Shocked and horrified ladies and gentlemen, shocked and horrified![/connolly]

ojgsxr6
12th July 07, 02:54 PM
I was very very confused, the 2 words don't seem to go together. 'Counterfeit eggs'
Apparently it was a hoax:
http://www.tian.cc/2007/05/hoax-chinese-counterfeit-eggs.html

PizDoff
12th July 07, 03:03 PM
So who decided to try to make buns out of cardboard first?

Sun Wukong
12th July 07, 03:06 PM
dude, the counterfeit eggs are real enough, they just aren't widespread. i've seen them with my own two eyes.

Edit: my wife just corrected me. the eggs i thought were counterfeit, were actually a local fungus and preserved tea egg dish. woof. i remember i wouldn't eat it anyway.

Sun Wukong
12th July 07, 03:14 PM
look, some poor people will do anything to turn a buck there. i drank some cheap tequila shots there and I swear to go it was wood alcohol.

Dagon Akujin
12th July 07, 03:53 PM
Didn't they just execute their chief health inspector for being a duche? I mean a fall-guy?

Dagon

Truculent Sheep
12th July 07, 06:07 PM
I'm reminded of how, in the early 19th century, food sellers in the UK had to hire lecturers to show punters what real food tasted like as adulteration was so rife. Bread filled out with plaster of paris and used tea leaves coated in lead paint were not unheard of.

The more things change...

SpringHeeledJack
12th July 07, 07:01 PM
Didn't they just execute their chief health inspector for being a duche? I mean a fall-guy?

DagonYes, by firing squad, apparently. He took bribes to approve medicines and one of them killed ten people.

Ecks
12th July 07, 09:47 PM
Yes, by firing squad, apparently. He took bribes to approve medicines and one of them killed ten people.
There are a lot of these shitpieces over there. I remember one of my granduncles nearly died of a freaking cold cause the doctor prescribed some sort of counterfeit cough medicine that gave him an allergic reaction, a la Bruce Lee.

I know it's morally wrong, but that bastard should have been shot in the cojones first. I have no pity for people who value money over other's lives.

Question!
13th July 07, 12:05 AM
I love these steamed buns, I hope I haven't accidentally ingested any cardboard.

Quikfeet509
13th July 07, 12:57 AM
One of my Chinese herbal medicine teachers, who is an OMD [4 years medical school + 2 years CHM / acupuncture in China], once told me about how her mother got scammed in a manner very common in China:

Her mother had OA of the knees and walked with an abnormal gait. One day at the market, some elderly lady came up to her and said something like "I used to have arthritis in my knees too but my daughter found a special herb that can help and now I can walk again".

So my teacher's mother, who knows her daughter is a doctor familiar with CHM, decides to follow this stranger to an herb shop where she pays an outrageous amount of money for the special herbs. When she gets home, she excitedly calls my teacher and tells her about the herbs. So she goes over to her moms and confirms her suscpicion that she has been ripped off.

Apparently this happens alot, especially with herbs [easy market because everyone wants to be cured]. Poor farmers will take Chuan Bei Mu, an herb for asthma, and put it in a shack that has sulfur burning on the fire, which puts a white coat on the herb, imitating the look of high-quality Chuan Bei Mu.

But before our American testicles swell with too much pride, these things happen in the US as well. People that have salmon farms realized that their salmon wasn't pink on the inside, which allowed consumers to buy better quality fish, so they added pink food coloring to the pellets they fed the fish. Agriculture lobbies have tried [and succeded, I believe] to ease the requirements for certain types of foods to be classified as "organic", making the term somewhat meaningless.

Sun Wukong
13th July 07, 03:21 AM
What that chinese official did was wrong, but our own government has pulled shit like that. Take for instance the original incarnation of the new "Bradley Fighting Vehicle".

It was an enormous mishandled cluster fuck, and gross negligence, that turned the original incarnation of the bradley into a death trap. Everybody knew it who put it together, but no one inside the chain of command said a ward to the oversight commities and went to huge lengths to cover up that the machine was terribly built. (ironically the actual engineer who built it knew it was a death trap, but the pentagon itself ordered him to build it to their specifications and totally ignored his protests.)

The brass in charge wanted a feather in their hats and didn't care at all about the lives of the soldiers involved. Trusting military brass to be honest or faithful to any code of military honor outside of their own good ol' boy network is sheer foolishness.

Steve
13th July 07, 03:32 AM
Huh? You know we are talking about food, right?

Sun Wukong
13th July 07, 04:03 AM
yeah, i'm sorry i got off to thinking about the corruption of china v. the corruption of the us and I guess I got a little ahead of myself.

I'm totally not suprised by the buns though. The quality of the average beijing and cantonese style baozi kinda sucks, but the Hangzhou style buns kick major ass. I highly suggest visiting Hangzhou for it's cullinary experience, but that's an aside. What i'm getting at is some buns on some streets taste worse than others, and some taste shag nasty and awful.

It would actually be kinda hard to tell if it was just a bad bun or if you were just getting fed something kinda funky.

As for using inedible filler to make more food, that comes as very little suprise to me. Some people there will do almost anything to make a buck.

Sun Wukong
13th July 07, 04:33 AM
Not to detract from the thread, but there are several dishes you need to try if you think you like chinese food. Most people have no idea what real chinese food tastes like, because they've never had it... at least in the states.

Oh sure, they go to "Chinese Restaurants" which is to say they go to restaurants owned by chinese people, but often these restuarants are owned by people who are actually very dismal chef's and may not have known anything about cooking at all before opening their doors. Sad and true.

Here's a couple sample dishes of things most of you have probably never had and are really fucking missing out on:

My personal favorite:

Chairman Mao's Red Braised Pork, forgive the name, they just named it that because it was Mao's favorite dish. I know why, that stuff is good. It may shock you, but it's practically caramelized pork belly cubes. It's like a BBQ'd bacon brisket. Sorta. F'ing good. You can find it all over China, nowhere in the states. It's typically from Hunan, but Mao popularized it everywhere.


Begger's chicken: freaking amazing. A whole chicken cooked so soft that the bones are completely edible. You can even bite right through a leg bone and never notice except for a mildly bitter after taste. It takes days to actually cook the chicken, and all i know is it's wrapped in lotus leaves, clay, and then slow cooked for a very long time. You absolutely can not get real begger's chicken anywhere but from one restaurant in Hangzhou. It's widely recognied that nobody else cooks it like they do, and you can easily tell the difference when you eat different versions of it.

Beijing Toast Duck: it's basically toasted duck skin ala carte. It tastes extremely good. Very popular in china but american's have no idea because they eat loads of things they think are chinese, but actually nobody even eats or is even from china.

emboesso
13th July 07, 05:31 AM
My father-in-law told me a story about a new building that went up in Tianjin. The new people that moved in began coming down with cancer and dying.

Investigation finally found this; the company that manufactured the paint had put gamma radiation (I don't know how well he translated this for me with his weak English) into the paint because it made it shinier.

Sun Wukong
13th July 07, 06:01 AM
they probably didn't even realize it would be lethal to anyone. some of the older wealthy chinese don't have a great understanding of science and are only wealthy because they were put into higher positions of government during the cultural revolution by mao because he valued uneducated people over educated people.

Kiko
13th July 07, 07:16 AM
Don't eat tanks. Even if you think they contain iron.

The corrupt official should have been forced to eat the cardboard buns until he got sick and THEN been been shot....

Dagon Akujin
13th July 07, 01:35 PM
Not to detract from the thread, but there are several dishes you need to try if you think you like chinese food. Most people have no idea what real chinese food tastes like, because they've never had it... at least in the states.

My favorites-
]
Ban Mein: This is an Arabic noodle dish with some goat and peppers. We ate it all the time since I was in North-Western China. Most places made the noodles fresh right in the restaurant, right in-front of you.

Polo: White rice with squares of goat and some carrots.

Peking Duck: Oh my [email protected][email protected]!!!1!!1 Peking Duck in China was just... god damn.... Don't be afraid of the head. When you order poultry in China they serve it to you with the cooked up head. That way you know you got the entire bird. Comes with multiple dishes, including duck bone soup.

Kebobs: More Arabic goat food. I could eat nothing but kebobs for a meal walking around street corners, though I might have to pay for it the next day.

Other things (which I would/did not eat)-

Goat heads: These were all over the markets. Steamed head???

Red dots: fried-up freshly born mice, with a little red dot of food coloring on their nose. Places were always out when we tried to order them.

Baby chicks: Take a fuzzy, freshly hatched chicken, stick a skewer up through each leg and out through the mouth. Stick over open flame to toast the fur.

Snake Liquor: I got to see this, but never got to get one myself. Take a live snake, chop off its head and drain the blood into a glass. Mix the blood with a vodka like alchohol and pass it around the table for everyone to drink. Let the crazy Americans play with the head. Fry the snake with some rice.

Kidneys: Okay, I tried the kidneys, but I couldn't figure out who the hell would want to eat something that filters the piss out of a goat's body. Sliced and served like the baby chicks, with some skewers and toasted over a fire. Tasted like rubbery shit.


Dagon

Sun Wukong
13th July 07, 01:42 PM
well, the chinese can cook up some sweet breads: liver, kidney, etc and I was always really pleased with it.

While in Shanghai I went to a french & russian restaurant and gorged myself on caviar and goose liver... oh, there are so many food vices available in a 3rd world country. wasn't chinese food at all. I felt ridiculous afterwards, because i shelled out about 1000 rmb ($125 at the time), for four people... but you'll never be able to do that in the states for such a low price.

Sun Wukong
13th July 07, 01:50 PM
worst thing i ate there was the pickled jelly fish.

Worst thing i watched someone eat was korean BBQ doggy steaks. I asked them afterwards how they felt about eating mans best friend... they said, "Full."

The sea cucumber was also totaly crap. every wealty chinese guy wants to impress you by taking you out to get budha jumped over the wall and seacucumber at baquets. Uggghh. They all thought i was an alcoholic because i always sucked down 2 quarts of beer at the table during the meal while i was baqueting. Half the time it was the only way i could eat some of the food.

Edit: not exactly all of them because the typical chinese guy loves to get smashed, he just usually does it away from the women folk.

polishillusion
13th July 07, 01:54 PM
stolen from ebaums


stinky tofu ftw

PizDoff
20th July 07, 10:22 PM
China says cardboard bun report was fake, candy maker denies formaldehyde use

Thu Jul 19, 6:02 PM

By Audra Ang
ADVERTISEMENT

BEIJING (AP) - Chinese police have arrested a journalist accused of faking an investigative report on buns stuffed with shredded cardboard that made headlines around the world and Beijing Television apologized for airing the footage.

The arrest came as China struggled to contain growing allegations about product safety that have hammered its reputation as a food and drug exporter and alarmed people at home. In the latest development, a Chinese candy maker denied Philippine assertions that one of its products was tainted with formaldehyde.

Beijing Television apologized during an evening news broadcast, saying the bun report was a hoax and the reporter had been taken into custody, but did not say when. A copy of the Wednesday broadcast was obtained by The Associated Press on Thursday.

"He used deceptive means to get the footage on the air," said news anchor Wang Ye, without giving specifics. "The Beijing Public Security Bureau has taken the criminal suspect, Zi, into custody and he will be severely dealt with according to law."

The official Xinhua News Agency said the suspect's full name is Zi Beijia.

Zi's footage appeared to show a makeshift kitchen where vendors made fluffy buns stuffed with chopped-up cardboard that had been softened in caustic soda and mixed with pork fat and flavouring.

The story, allegedly shot with a hidden camera, was first broadcast on Beijing Television's Life Channel on July 8 and then again three days later on China Central Television.

The footage gained worldwide media attention, reinforcing the image of China's food safety woes. It made headlines in China as well and created a buzz on the Internet, where people flooded chat rooms with comments expressing shock and disgust. On YouTube, the video had been viewed more than 6,000 times by Thursday.

Police said Zi had told editors he wanted to investigate the quality of pork buns, and spent two weeks visiting stands but could not find anything to report, Xinhua said. He filmed the fake report after coming under pressure to produce a story, the agency said.

Beijing Television said Zi brought meat, flour, cardboard and other ingredients to a downtown Beijing neighbourhood in mid-June, and had four migrant workers make the buns for him while he filmed the process.

The station said it was "profoundly sorry" for the fake report and its "vile impact on society," and vowed to prevent inaccurate news coverage in the future. However, the apology did not answer questions about how the report ended up being aired or what sort of editorial checks were done on the story.

Some analysts suggested the Chinese government, in an attempt to improve the country's reputation after a spate of product safety problems, may have ordered the television station to tell the public the story was fabricated.

Elizabeth Economy, an Asia specialist at the Council on Foreign Relations in New York, said she would not be surprised if the government had punished the reporter to deflect criticism.

"In general, Beijing's first line of defence has been denial in the face of such claims that paint a negative picture of the government," she said. "We don't know the truth in this case, but anything is possible."

Meanwhile, candy maker Guan Sheng Yuan Co. denied Philippine allegations that one of its products was tainted with formaldehyde, an embalming fluid and preservative.

The Shanghai-based confectioner said it sent samples of its "White Rabbit" milk candy to a lab for testing after it was banned by the Philippine Bureau of Food and Drugs.

"Guan Sheng Yuan Co. makes this pledge to society: Absolutely at no point during the manufacturing of White Rabbit milk candy are preservatives added," the company said in a statement posted on its website.

Rivals have made numerous counterfeit versions of the popular candy, the company said, calling the Philippine food and drug bureau "irresponsible" for not checking the candy's authenticity, and threatening to sue.

Joshua Ramos, deputy director of the Philippine food and drugs bureau, insisted Thursday that samples of the candy the agency found tainted with formaldehyde were genuine and obtained from legitimate distributors.

The speed of Guan Sheng Yuan's response underscored concerns the deteriorating reputation of Chinese food exports could spread to some of the country's best-known brands.

In a statement Thursday, the Chinese Embassy in Washington moved to calm fears about the safety of China's exports, saying it takes the issue seriously and is waging an "ongoing campaign" to address the problem. It also cautioned against using individual lapses in safety to impugn the country's entire food industry.

"Certain isolated cases should not be blown out of proportion to mislead the public into thinking that all food from China is unsafe," the statement said.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/070719/health/health_china_tainted_products

I did chuckle a bit because something like this would be fairly stupid, then I thought.....censorship...

Sun Wukong
20th July 07, 10:33 PM
this also doesn't surprise me much. guy shouldn't have been arrested though, but definitely fired as a journalist for printing a fake story.

you see alot of ridiculous stories on the air in china that have little to no journalist value. I saw a report from some jackass in Hong Kong all about how many of the homeless there are HAPPY about being homeless and don't want to live in houses, wear decent clothing, bathe or be anything other than a social pariah.

Some homeless people I'm sure have been homeless and destitute for so long they just get used to it, but actually happy about it? Fuck no.

Neildo
13th August 07, 12:34 PM
China sentences reporter who faked cardboard buns story to 1 year in jail

BEIJING (AP) - A Chinese court sentenced a reporter to a year in jail for faking a television story about cardboard-filled meat buns, state media said, in a case that drew widespread attention to the country's poor food safety record.

Zi Beijia, 28, pleaded guilty to charges of infringing on the reputation of a commodity during his trial Sunday at the Beijing No. 2 Intermediate Court, the official Xinhua News Agency said. He was sentenced to a year in jail and a fine of 1,000 yuan (US$132; C97), it said.

Zi's buns story, reportedly shot with a hidden camera, briefly came to symbolize China's food safety woes that have alarmed people at home and hammered the country's reputation as a food and drug exporter.

The video report appeared to show a makeshift kitchen where people made steamed buns stuffed with cardboard softened with caustic soda plus a little bit of fatty pork.

The Beijing court heard that Zi paid four migrant workers from China's northern Shaanxi province to prepare the buns according to his instructions, Xinhua said in a report late Sunday. The buns were then fed to dogs, it said.

The story was first broadcast on Beijing Television's Life Channel on July 8 and then again on China Central Television. It was also widely seen on YouTube.com.

http://www.cbc.ca/cp/Oddities/070813/K081302AU.html

Cullion
13th August 07, 12:53 PM
But before our American testicles swell with too much pride, these things happen in the US as well. People that have salmon farms realized that their salmon wasn't pink on the inside, which allowed consumers to buy better quality fish, so they added pink food coloring to the pellets they fed the fish. Agriculture lobbies have tried [and succeded, I believe] to ease the requirements for certain types of foods to be classified as "organic", making the term somewhat meaningless.

Before I went to university I worked as a fishmonger. Farmed salmon often has a brighter-than-natural pink colour from the use of too much dye in the food, but more tellingly, it is very common for them to have deformed/missing/extra fins (which have almost always been trimmed off before it gets wrapped and handed over to you or packaged for the shelf).

Good quality wild salmon is of course much more expensive. The texture is different (creamier) and the flavour is sort of smoother.

Zendetta
13th August 07, 02:05 PM
Farmed salmon is starting to freek me out. Lotsa mercury, apparently.

My butcher was recently running specials on wild canadian sockeye (almost ruby-red) that was in my price range, so I ate alot of that a few weeks ago.

Cullion
13th August 07, 02:08 PM
I dunno about mercury content. I do know they get fed lotsa unattural stuff that makes them deformed though.

Neildo
13th August 07, 02:13 PM
They all thought i was an alcoholic because i always sucked down 2 quarts of beer at the table during the meal while i was baqueting. Half the time it was the only way i could eat some of the food.

wtf is up with bittermelon, and why did they think it would be a good idea to eat it?

Mr. Jones
15th August 07, 02:25 AM
This isn't about China. But Korean and Vietnamese donut shops taste nasty. They must be cutting corners and expect us to eat garbage. Or it's a front for money laundering.




Worst thing i watched someone eat was korean BBQ doggy steaks. I asked them afterwards how they felt about eating mans best friend... they said, "Full."


I find this comment disgusting not because he's eating dog meat. But because you're disgusted by eating dog meat. I would like you to be i room while someone is cooking chitlins. It smells like shit. Probably because they are eating shit.

Neildo
15th August 07, 11:31 AM
i know a vietnamese sandwich/donut shop, and yeah. it's not very good.

Sun Wukong
15th August 07, 06:47 PM
I find this comment disgusting not because he's eating dog meat. But because you're disgusted by eating dog meat. I would like you to be i room while someone is cooking chitlins. It smells like shit. Probably because they are eating shit.

You have no idea what you're talking about or who you are talking to.

I'm a farmer's son from the rural deep south dumbass. The smell from chitlins is nowhere near as intense as the one you get from being covered in manure from spending the day scooping up cow shit in 95 degree weather with 100 percent humidity or from spending weeks during the summer months shoveling manure out of a 10,000 chicken hen house.

No, when you eat chitlins, you are not eating shit. You are eating the large intestines. As part of the preparations for cooking chitterlings you have to cut thm and boil out the shit. That's why the shit smell get's in the air. Ever been to Dunbarton, Louisiana? No, I didn't fucking think so.

I've helped pull the intestines out of and skins off of many a four legged creature and slain many various farm critters for both food and sport.

The only animal on the farm that isn't expendable is your dog. He's your best friend, he's the most dedicated worker and he goes everywhere with you. If you come across a snake, he'll find it first, charge the snake and take the hit every fucking time. That's called loyalty.

If somebody fucks with you on your own farm, that dog will raise hell. If another pest or creature comes onto your farm and starts after your chickens and bothering your cattle, your own dogs will fucking kill them.

I, personally, object to eating dogs because to me they have a raised status in the animal kingdom. They are not prey, they are companions in the US for a very good reason. However, as i've continously pointed out, (i'm starting to doubt you even read responses to the dumb shit you post), Korea and China have frequently and recently faced starvation. Their dietary habits are not born out of ignorance, or antipathy: they are born out of the desire to survive starvation.

Fewer people eat dog in China these days and recently the chinese government has been penalizing restaurants that serve it in some areas. Far more people enjoy dogs as pets and they have become a status symbol for the middle class.

Though, to be honest, I really don't know why I spent all this time responding to your post. you obviously don't put any thought whatsoever into your own posts.

In fact, my patience for you is starting to wear extremely thin.

Mr. Jones
15th August 07, 09:36 PM
You have no idea what you're talking about or who you are talking to.

I'm a farmer's son from the rural deep south dumbass. The smell from chitlins is nowhere near as intense as the one you get from being covered in manure from spending the day scooping up cow shit in 95 degree weather with 100 percent humidity or from spending weeks during the summer months shoveling manure out of a 10,000 chicken hen house.

No, when you eat chitlins, you are not eating shit. You are eating the large intestines. As part of the preparations for cooking chitterlings you have to cut thm and boil out the shit. That's why the shit smell get's in the air. Ever been to Dunbarton, Louisiana? No, I didn't fucking think so.

I've helped pull the intestines out of and skins off of many a four legged creature and slain many various farm critters for both food and sport.

The only animal on the farm that isn't expendable is your dog. He's your best friend, he's the most dedicated worker and he goes everywhere with you. If you come across a snake, he'll find it first, charge the snake and take the hit every fucking time. That's called loyalty.

If somebody fucks with you on your own farm, that dog will raise hell. If another pest or creature comes onto your farm and starts after your chickens and bothering your cattle, your own dogs will fucking kill them.

I, personally, object to eating dogs because to me they have a raised status in the animal kingdom. They are not prey, they are companions in the US for a very good reason. However, as i've continously pointed out, (i'm starting to doubt you even read responses to the dumb shit you post), Korea and China have frequently and recently faced starvation. Their dietary habits are not born out of ignorance, or antipathy: they are born out of the desire to survive starvation.

Fewer people eat dog in China these days and recently the chinese government has been penalizing restaurants that serve it in some areas. Far more people enjoy dogs as pets and they have become a status symbol for the middle class.

Though, to be honest, I really don't know why I spent all this time responding to your post. you obviously don't put any thought whatsoever into your own posts.

In fact, my patience for you is starting to wear extremely thin.

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

I have been to a farm deep in Lousiana. But haven't grown up there like you have. The people I stayed with weren't rich enough to own 10,000 chickens.
You and those people probably used unecessary equpment to kill your animals. For example killing a chicken or Turkey with an axe. I didn't bother to memorize those small towns.

LOL @ a dog doing something I could apparently do myself.(Killing a snake)

No that's called trained behavior not loyalty. When an animal becomes something more than a work animal or food it's given unwarranted importance. I'm not going to stop eating pork just because some people keep pigs as pets. Some people raise horses and pony's as meat. People still think it's disgusting for some reason.

Only if you've been raised by wolves should a human being consider an animal his best friend.

Their dietary habits are born out of the desire to eat. Like everybody else. They don't need a special excuse to eat what they eat.

What you say about the middle class is true Chris Ketchens. But they do serve fancy dog and cat receipes in high class restaurants.

Out of curiosioty Chris Ketchens have you ever thrown a sack of puppies in a river or buried them alive?

Quikfeet509
16th August 07, 12:39 AM
Before I went to university I worked as a fishmonger. Farmed salmon often has a brighter-than-natural pink colour from the use of too much dye in the food, but more tellingly, it is very common for them to have deformed/missing/extra fins (which have almost always been trimmed off before it gets wrapped and handed over to you or packaged for the shelf).

Good quality wild salmon is of course much more expensive. The texture is different (creamier) and the flavour is sort of smoother.



It's hard to keep all of this straight, but I think I remember why [somebody correct me if I'm wrong]...


Xenoestrogens in the environment are fucking up fish. Apparently the byproduct of plastics and other goodies are xenoestrogens, meaning estrogen-like compounds created by non-organic sources outside the animal world. Supposedly these xenoestrogens can mimic estrogen in the body of animals that are receptive to the compounds, like fish [and humans], which causes a whole range of issues. I recall around KC there was a news report about the increasing number of hermaphrodite fish in a local river, caused primarily by chemical exposure.

But hey, fools got to eat, right?

Sun Wukong
16th August 07, 07:14 PM
After careful review Jones, I'm going to give you a few pointers on critical thinking and understanding the written word.

1. stop attempting to draw conclusions. from now on, you should stick to a strict rhetorical regimen of attempts to draw sail boats. Most of your posts are crowned with wild and incorrect assumptions. you suck at teh lawjec ekwayshunz.

2. don't mistake pretend facts in your head for facts that really exist. Alternately, you may choose to live in a fantasy land where you are ridiculed for being a "really smart guy." You suck at teh stayedmunt of faakt.

Sun Wukong
16th August 07, 07:23 PM
What you say about the middle class is true Chris Ketchens. But they do serve fancy dog and cat receipes in high class restaurants.



High class restaurants that serve cat and dog recipe's... in China?

Oh please, so that I may ridicule you, do tell me of your great and expansive knowledge of "high class" restaurants in CHINA that have cats on the menu.

Mr. Jones
16th August 07, 08:27 PM
Dog meat is called fragrant meat and is apparently more expensive.


struggling through the crowds of morning shoppers in the maze of narrow streets that line the banks of the Yong river, I pushed my way into an old open market. On tables, piles of fresh meat swarmed with flies in the early summer heat.

Dogs
Dogs are considered tasty
Then I came across a scene that would shock any pet lover: row upon row of metal cages crammed full of pathetic looking dogs. Their terror-filled eyes darting back and forth.

As I watched, one was hauled from a cage yelping. While one man held it down, another thrust a 20cm (8-inch) knife into its heart - blood gushed, I stepped back, my gorge rising.

As I stood there transfixed by the horror of what I was watching, a little man next to me turned and smiled - apparently the dog was for him.

"Do you eat dog meat in your country?" he asked breezily.

"No, not really," I stammered.

As a child I was taught - indoctrinated even - into believing that wildlife is important

"What a shame," he said, "it's very good."

Whatever one feels about dog eating, it is neither rare nor unusual in China.

Dogs are considered tasty
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/2074073.stm



High class restaurants that serve cat and dog recipe's... in China?

Oh please, so that I may ridicule you, do tell me of your great and expansive knowledge of "high class" restaurants in CHINA that have cats on the menu.

I'm not responsible for your ignorance. That's your problem. However heres a few examples of a few delicacies for you. I should have worded it different but whatever.


n Canton, southern China, there exists a dish called "The Dragon and the Tiger''. It is made with snake and cat meat stir-fried together and is an exotic delicacy. "Snake Soup", "Dragon Fights with Tiger Soup" (longhudou) or "Dragon-Tiger-Phoenix Soup" contains cobra, serpentine, old cat, and young chicken. The snake stands for the dragon, cat stands for tiger and chicken stands for phoenix. "'Tiger Fights Dragon'" is described as consisting of a roast snake entwined around a roast cat.

There are persistent rumours that the rise in demand for cat (a delicacy), and the apparent willingness of some Chinese to pay extravagant prices for cat dishes, has led to pet cats in Beijing being stolen to Cantonese-style restaurants. In January 2000, the New York Times reported allegations that the popularity of Cantonese-style restaurants in Beijing has led to cat-thefts to meet the rising demand. Lu Di, a Beijing woman, professor of classical literature and long-time animal welfare campaigner (a rarity in China) apparently stated that between September and the date of the report, up to 500 Beijing families had their pet cats stolen. This estimate was extrapolated from complaints received by her Association for the Protection of Small Animals.

Mr. Jones
16th August 07, 08:29 PM
After careful review Jones, I'm going to give you a few pointers on critical thinking and understanding the written word.

1. stop attempting to draw conclusions. from now on, you should stick to a strict rhetorical regimen of attempts to draw sail boats. Most of your posts are crowned with wild and incorrect assumptions. you suck at teh lawjec ekwayshunz.

2. don't mistake pretend facts in your head for facts that really exist. Alternately, you may choose to live in a fantasy land where you are ridiculed for being a "really smart guy." You suck at teh stayedmunt of faakt.

Paragraph One is full of shit

Paragraph Two is full of shit

Now answer my question about the sack of puppies you little smartass.

Mr. Jones
16th August 07, 08:46 PM
http://u1.ipernity.com/u/1/F4/9F/106484.37baa5471.l.jpg

http://u1.ipernity.com/u/1/F3/9F/106483.529089e41.l.jpg

Western culture considers that eating a dog is cruel, barbaric and discusting (not illegal, though), but ironically we have no problem eating all other sorts of animals, as long as they are not called pets.

But for the vast majority of people on earth, cultural values are very different. Dog meat is considered a delicacy in some asian cultures, and indeed cooked dog meat is very tasty and protein rich. You should try it some day! (if you are not vegetarian)

"Food dogs" are not pets and they have no names. They are bred and raised in farms, just like pigs, cows, lambs, chickens and other farm animals. They are put down "humanely" just like any other farm animal, usually by slitting the throat and beeding the animal until it passes out.

Mr. Jones
16th August 07, 08:50 PM
WHERE IS YOUR
GOD NOW?

Sun Wukong
16th August 07, 09:25 PM
So what? You posted a couple of pictures of a slaughtered dog? You consider that a win somehow?

There's really no other way to say this: You're clearly fucking retarded.

Mr. Jones
16th August 07, 10:13 PM
So what? You posted a couple of pictures of a slaughtered dog? You consider that a win somehow?

There's really no other way to say this: You're clearly fucking retarded.

No I win because I pwned you in everything you said before. Also the fact that you ignored everything I posted and focused on a slaughtered dog is extremely hilarious.

Sun Wukong
16th August 07, 10:20 PM
No because I pwned you in everything you said before.


You did what? I'm sorry, I didn't realize you lived in an alternate universe.

Mr. Jones
16th August 07, 10:24 PM
You did what? I'm sorry, I didn't realize you lived in an alternate universe.

I'm sorry you view a dog as something more than a work or food animal. Also your story of a dog not being disposable is full of shit. Farmers throw litters of puppies in the river all the time.

Zendetta
16th August 07, 10:29 PM
You did what? I'm sorry, I didn't realize you lived in an alternate universe.

Apparently, I was recently raped by Ms. Jones. Musta been in bizarro world too.

Sun Wukong
16th August 07, 10:41 PM
Your posts are filled with obscenely stretched assumptions and exagerations. Empty rhetoric that you are using to defend your own opinions.

I don't give a shit about your opinions; the only person they're important to is you.

Your supporting arguments for your opinions about the chinese just loving to eat dogs and cats are all based purely on poor assumptions, and a very misguided understanding of the subject. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Go back to hanging out in 4chan, I think that's more your speed.

Mr. Jones
16th August 07, 10:44 PM
Fuck Chinese eating habits. I'm bothered by the fact you think that eating dogs is disgusting. And you rightly deserved that smartass answer that guy gave you. I don't post at 4chan. Where did you get that crap from.

Sun Wukong
16th August 07, 10:48 PM
Fuck Chinese eating habits. I'm bothered by the fact you think that eating dogs is disgusting. And you rightly deserved that smartass answer that guy gave you. I don't post at 4chan. Where did you get that crap from.

Huh? what smartass answer, what guy gave me?

Well, somebody said you were hanging out there... it's hearsay so it must be true.

Mr. Jones
16th August 07, 10:54 PM
Huh? what smartass answer, what guy gave me?

Well, somebody said you were hanging out there... it's heresay so it must be true.

That guy you asked how did it feel to eat man's best friend.

I don't lurk or post at 4chan. That somebody is most likely me and Sirc when we talk shit to each other.

Sun Wukong
16th August 07, 11:07 PM
That guy you asked how did it feel to eat man's best friend.

This touches on the nerve center of where your argumentative train of logic is damaged. You seem to think that I was annoyed or disgusted toward someone because they ate something I personally won't eat. I never said it bothered me when other people do it and I never said I was offended.

That guy by the way, wasn't some random dude, he's someone I have known for 19 years. He also didn't say it to offend me or to be a "smart ass", he said it to make me laugh.



I don't lurk or post at 4chan. That somebody is most likely me and Sirc when we talk shit to each other.

I think you failed to grasp the under lying koan at the heart of my statement regarding heresay.

Mr. Jones
16th August 07, 11:30 PM
This touches on the nerve center of where your argumentative train of logic is damaged. You seem to think that I was annoyed or disgusted toward someone because they ate something I personally won't eat. I never said it bothered me when other people do it and I never said I was offended.

That guy by the way, wasn't some random dude, he's someone I have known for 19 years. He also didn't say it to offend me or to be a "smart ass", he said it to make me laugh.



I think you failed to grasp the under lying koan at the heart of my statement regarding heresay.

You could have had a point if you didn't say all this.


The only animal on the farm that isn't expendable is your dog. He's your best friend, he's the most dedicated worker and he goes everywhere with you. If you come across a snake, he'll find it first, charge the snake and take the hit every fucking time. That's called loyalty.

If somebody fucks with you on your own farm, that dog will raise hell. If another pest or creature comes onto your farm and starts after your chickens and bothering your cattle, your own dogs will fucking kill them.

I, personally, object to eating dogs because to me they have a raised status in the animal kingdom. They are not prey, they are companions in the US for a very good reason.

I thought you were saying the hearsay you heard was true. Nvm.

Sun Wukong
17th August 07, 12:09 AM
You could have had a point if you didn't say all this.

Go back and read that again. Where did I say other people eating dogs bothered me? I was saying I don't want to eat dogs, because I like them.



I thought you were saying the hearsay you heard was true. Nvm.
so... what exactly was I saying about hearsay as it relates to you?