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Steve
4th June 07, 11:41 PM
Putin threatens to target Europe
He also lashes out at NATO and insists he's world's only true democrat.

DOUG SAUNDERS
Globe and Mail Update
June 4, 2007 at 6:00 AM EDT

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i141/forstevee/putin1.gif (http://images.theglobeandmail.com/archives/RTGAM/images/20070602/wputin01/_done_0604putintalk_600big.jpg)MOSCOW — In a threat not uttered since the Cold War, Vladimir Putin said that Russia intends to aim its missile systems - potentially nuclear weapons - at targets in Europe in retaliation for the U.S. decision to establish antimissile bases there.

During a lengthy dinner, Russia's President defended his semi-authoritarian style and insisted he is the world's only true democrat. In an interview with The Globe and Mail and a small circle of other journalists, he stressed that his country is not moving away from a market economy, refused to consider extraditing a former KGB agent charged with poisoning a dissident in London, and lashed out repeatedly at the United States and NATO for operating in countries previously within Russia's sphere of influence.

Mr. Putin's remarks, translated from Russian, virtually guarantee much of the G8 summit, due to begin in northern Germany on Wednesday, will be dominated by the growing confrontation between the West and Russia.

Mr. Putin repeatedly described U.S. antimissile bases, which will be built in the Czech Republic and Poland, both former Warsaw Pact countries, as "an element of the nuclear potential of the United States," and that the alleged threat from Iranian missiles is a myth. Washington says that the bases are purely defensive and designed to shoot down missiles launched at the United States from Iran or other rogue states.

Asked what he might do to retaliate, he said he would return to the Cold War practice of having Russian ballistic missiles programmed to strike targets in Europe - in this case, he said, the Czech and Polish antimissile sites as well as new U.S. bases in Bulgaria and Romania.

"It is obvious that if part of the strategic nuclear potential of the United States is located in Europe, and according to our military experts will be threatening us, we will have to respond," he said.

"What kind of steps are we going to take in response? Of course, we are going to get new targets in Europe."

He suggested that this could include powerful nuclear-capable weapons.

"What kind of means will be used to hit the targets that our military believe are potential threats to the Russian federation? This is a purely technical issue, be it ballistic missiles or cruise missiles, or some kinds of novel weapons systems - this is a purely technical issue."

But Mr. Putin explained at length that Russia sees itself being forced into this position - which he described as an "arms race" but said he regretted - because of the actions of the United States. In 2002, the Americans withdrew from the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty, and Washington has never signed the Conventional Armed Forces in Europe treaty, designed to end the Cold War military standoff.

"There is a violation, an imbalance of strategic equilibrium in the world, and in order to provide for the balance, without establishing our own antimissile defence system, we will need to establish those systems which would be able to penetrate the missile defence systems."

Russia has earlier said that it will pull out of the 1987 Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty, designed to prevent a nuclear arms race within Europe, if the U.S. goes ahead with its antimissile base.

Mr. Putin described Russia as being penned in by NATO and U.S. expansionism. In February, he called for an end of a "unipolar world" dominated by the United States.

"We have brought all our heavy weapons beyond the Urals and we have reduced our military forces by 300,000, and some other steps," he said.

"But what do we have in return? We see that Eastern Europe is being filled with new equipment, with new military, in Romania and Bulgaria as well as radar in the Czech Republic and missile systems in Poland. So we have a question there: What is happening? What is happening is that there is the unilateral disarmament of Russia."

This week, Russia tested a new type of cruise missile designed to penetrate antimissile systems. Mr. Putin said that Russia will pursue new weapons systems to restore the "global strategic balance," but would not increase its military spending beyond average European levels.

He said, however, that he would not reciprocate by setting up bases in countries close to the U.S., such as Cuba or Venezuela: "We do not need any bases in somebody's backyard." And he added that he is not interested in establishing a Warsaw Pact-style alliance with like-minded anti-Western nations.

Mr. Putin is in his final year of the Russian presidency, under a constitution that limits him to two consecutive terms. During that time, Russia has vastly improved its economic position after the chaos and impoverishment of the 1990s, and has become a significant player in global markets. But it has also become more authoritarian, with most independent media shut down or placed under state control, dissident activities heavily curtailed and political opposition kept to the margins.

Throughout the interview, Mr. Putin addressed questions about troubling aspects of the Russian state by citing similar flaws he sees in other nations. He repeatedly quoted from the most recent Amnesty International annual report, which harshly criticized the United States for its human-rights record on antiterrorism activities and the Iraq war. And, when the flaws in Russian democracy were cited, he mentioned the 2000 U.S. presidential elections.

"Of course, I am a pure and absolute democrat," he said. "The tragedy is that I am alone. I am the only such pure democrat. There are no such other democrats in the world. Let us see what is happening in North America: Just horrible torture. The homeless. Guantanamo. Detentions without normal court proceedings."

"After the death of Mahatma Gandhi," he added, with a smile, "I have nobody to talk to."

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i141/forstevee/putin2.gif (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/Page/document/video/vs?id=RTGAM.20070604.wvvideo0604&ids=RTGAM.20070604.wvvideo0604)Mr. Putin, perhaps aware of his image as a stern autocrat, joked on another very serious topic. He had explained that he fully agrees with U.S. President George W. Bush that Iran should not be permitted to develop nuclear weapons. Then he was asked if this spirit of co-operation could extend to the contentious antimissile system: If it had Russian involvement, and was operated by NATO rather than the U.S., would he find it agreeable?

"NATO is just an additional irritant element in relations with Russia," he said. "We know how decisions are made in NATO, the same way they were taken in the Warsaw Pact."

He then repeated a joke he'd heard when he was a KGB agent in East Germany: When examining the desk of East German leader Erich Honecker, which was covered with telephones, how could you tell which one was connected to the Russian-led Warsaw Pact?

"It's easy," he said, "It's the one that only has an earpiece, no microphone." And then, to make his point clear, he added: "NATO's the same, but the phone is connected not to Moscow but to Washington."

Mr. Putin was particularly eager to argue that Russia is not reverting to a state-run economy. It has recently set up large state-run enterprises to build ships and aircraft, and its main oil and gas firm, Gazprom, has the Russian state holding the majority of its shares.

But, he explained, this is simply a transitional state of affairs, and these firms, once they are competitive, will be privatized (he likened this approach to that taken by South Korea during its industrialization in the 1950s).

"So if we are speaking of creating large-scale corporations with large participation of the state ... as in shipbuilding or aviation ... we are not speaking of the returning of some privatized companies to state ownership," he said. "On the contrary, we are pulling together the spread-out assets of the state under one roof ... a lot needs to be done.

"We are going to proceed toward developing liberal market values."

The arms race was not the only standoff that became more heated during the interview. Britain last week requested the extradition of Andrei Lugovoi, the former KGB agent who British police believe was responsible for the poisoning of ex-agent and dissident Alexander Litvinenko with a radioactive isotope in London last year.

Mr. Putin refused outright to consider any extradition. "Are there possible circumstances under which Russia could extradite Lugovoi? Yes there are. And those would require amendments to the constitution of the Russian Federation."

He then said that the incident was Britain's fault, for allowing so many people to flee Russia and receive amnesty in Britain.

"After the British authorities allowed for so many thieves and terrorists to get together in their own territory, in the territory of the United Kingdom, they have created a situation which is dangerous for the nationals of Great Britain itself. And the British side is fully responsible for this development."

But Mr. Putin would not be pinned down so easily on the question of his own succession. He ruled out one subject of speculation - that he would amend the Russian constitution to give himself a third term of office (he currently has a public-opinion rating in Russia of 71 per cent).

He hinted that he might remain in Russian government, in some capacity, after he ceases to be president next March.

"I know I will be working," the 55-year-old said. "Where and in what capacity I cannot say at this point. I do have certain ideas on this count, but it is too early to speak about this at this point. Even according to Russian legislation, I have not reached my retirement age. And it would be silly just to sit at home without doing anything, but exactly what I am going to do?"

And then he added an intriguing remark: "A lot will depend on how the political process evolves in Russia toward the end of this year and in early 2008. There are different options that may be considered."

And, for perhaps the first time, he was asked why he is so rarely seen with his wife (there have been rumours in Russia, almost never published, that they have split). At first, he answered in the language of any politician: "I think that she is really looking forward to my ceasing to be the President," he said. "Because of course, presidency is a burden on the family - if for me I have the compensation as a result of my activities, then my family does not get this compensation."

Then he seemed to return to his old form, providing the sort of answer that might be expected of a former KGB man talking about his marriage: "There are no problems about that situation," he said, "and I don't expect any problems to appear."

---------------------------------------------

Link. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070602.wputin01/BNStory/International/home)

Wow.

I like Putin, he's definately got some balls.

Question!
4th June 07, 11:46 PM
Did he just compare himself to Gandhi?!

Yiktin Voxbane
4th June 07, 11:51 PM
LOL @ Ghandi referrence, the rest seems a little grim ..... perhaps .

Steve
5th June 07, 12:02 AM
I do have to admit that it doesn't sound all that happy but I can see why he has a 71% approval rating. Compared to Bush's rating....

Question!
5th June 07, 12:16 AM
It's all posturing anyhow.

Steve
5th June 07, 12:21 AM
It's all posturing anyhow.

For a second I thought you wrote 'politics', my bad.

Of course it is.

Sun Wukong
5th June 07, 02:01 AM
Yeah... who would have thought that so soon after the fall of the USSR, the ruskies would have a president with a higher approval rating, undoubtedly smarter and infinitely better at making statements to the international press than the United States. He probably has a higher international approval rating too... the writing is one the wall.

God Damn. This is a god damn crying shame.

Stick
5th June 07, 02:59 AM
Pfffffft!

He also has reporters assassinated for working on ground breaking exposes about organized torture (real torture, rape, and murder- not Abu Graihb crap) by the military in Russia's Chechnya adventures.

/smacks Ketchens with a wet fish.

Sun Wukong
5th June 07, 03:04 AM
Pfffffft!

He also has reporters assassinated for working on ground breaking exposes about organized torture (real torture, rape, and murder- not Abu Graihb crap) by the military in Russia's Chechnya adventures.

/smacks Ketchens with a wet fish.


I think you failed to see the irony that I was trying to point out. He's practically Voldemort but he's still a much better statesman than GWB. On top of that, the Bush admin has practically been hand-feeding him to act like this. How long did it take for the US to end the cold war? How long did it take for the Bush admin to allow the god damn thing to be practically primed and ready to go AGAIN?

Sun Wukong
5th June 07, 03:10 AM
The US has damn near pissed away ALL of it's international good will and moral capital after we suffered the single largest scale terrorist attack in history.

Jesus, it's maddening to watch the country get pushed through the fucking shitter like this by our own fucking hands.

Knave
5th June 07, 06:27 AM
Greetings.

The start of Cold War II will be a fitting end to GWB's term I think.

Incidentally, the idea of there being a Red Dawn remake/sequel in upcoming years excites me.

Neildo
5th June 07, 10:40 AM
Where's ICY? Oh well, I'll do it in his stead.

http://users.tinyworld.co.uk/steven_tubbrit/Workshop/Nurbs/Eye/Eye_Main.jpg
http://www.arizonaballoon.com/images/heart-newhelium.jpg
http://www.channel4.com/more4/media/images/documentaries/R/russia/gallery2/putin_384x350.jpg

Shawarma
6th June 07, 03:20 PM
Local newspaper runs front page story: "Putin restarts cold war." Lots of other news sources make the same claims, that its his communist paranoia that makes him edgy.

FUCK YOU, COCKSUCKING MEDIA HACKS! The Americans are trying to put in place the pieces for the next showdown with Russia, which will invevitably come once it manages to rebuild more of its former power, and the Russians are simply calling them on it and flexing their muscles, somewhat impotently. And they're damn right to do so, because like one Russian official said: "Even if they say the missile shield is not intended as being anti-Russian, we HAVE to treat it as such. To do otherwise would be folly."

elipson
7th June 07, 12:37 AM
This is EXACTLY what everyone was saying when Bush decided to go ahead with his missile defense program! And now they are acting all suprised.

If the US is really not interested in besting the russians, then they should agree to provide russia with the same systems that they want to install in the NATO countries.

Level playing field, problem solved. Of course Bush will never do it. How the hell did you Yanks RE-ELECT this idiot?

Steve
7th June 07, 12:44 AM
How the hell did you Yanks RE-ELECT this idiot?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0361596/
(http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0361596/)

2Zf2nCiBJLo

lew6DS9wEyI

Lots of people liked the opposite of MM's film, I guess...

elipson
7th June 07, 06:35 PM
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/06/07/bush.putin/index.html

I'm shocked, SHOCKED I tell ya. I think Bush must have been replaced by someone with a little common sense. I really didn't think he would man up and invite the Russians in.

frumpleswift
7th June 07, 07:19 PM
This is really the reason Iraw was a huge mistake. It wasnt the lack of WMD's, or the lies, etc. It is the fact that we blew all of our credit on a pussy. Yes Sadaam Hussein was a pussy. He postured and talked tough, and pretended to have weapons that he didn't. But he was a wimp.

Iran, Russia, North Korea. They are all decently scary threats, but because we went and made asses of ourselves in Iraq we have to fight 30 times as hard to make the rest of the world play ball.

Also, an antimissile defense shield isn't stupid because it pisses off the Russians. It is idiotic because it will never work. We spend 500 million developing anti-missile missiles, and the enemy puts $100 bucks worth of chaff or crap on their ICBMS to thwart the system. And that is assuming we can even develop a system that works, which we haven't yet.

We might as well be developing phasers (which Bush wanted people at the NRL to do...but they laughed at him).

Steve
7th June 07, 11:10 PM
I don't think chaff would work. Anti-missiles are meant to intercept missiles, not chase them.

From what I understand, that is.

Sun Wukong
8th June 07, 03:24 AM
Level playing field, problem solved. Of course Bush will never do it. How the hell did you Yanks RE-ELECT this idiot?


Ask Emboesso, he seems to be plugged right into the same fucking nerve. By the way, he's not alone though. There used to be other conservative types lining up on here, when it was the General BS portion of Bullshido, to sing GWB's praises for re-election and how he was the only person who could possibly handle the big bad terrorist threat.

Only half the country actually voted for this clown, not that it makes it right. Imagine being here and feeling that way. The last 6 years was alot like going to a unexpected family funeral (9/11) and getting punched repeatedly in the balls by a mildly retarded Texan when you go up to pay your respects at the casket.

frumpleswift
8th June 07, 03:37 PM
I don't think chaff would work. Anti-missiles are meant to intercept missiles, not chase them.

From what I understand, that is.

I know it wouldn't be chaff...but it would be something similar that would cost about 1/10000th as much as it cost to develop the missile shield to begin with.

Shawarma
8th June 07, 06:09 PM
Does anyone know how effective this anti-missile shit is really supposed to be? I mean, both China and the USSR has or will have the capabilities to rain literally hundreds of rockets down over a given area. How much good are some counter-rockets or something going to do against that kind of barrage? And that's assuming that there will even BE a missile involved in the nuclear equation. Assuming that NK or Iran will be the next nation to launch a nuclear attack, it will most likely come in the shape of a truck or a civilian ship driven across an enemy border or docked in an enemy harbour under false premises and detonated. What good will your multi-billion dollar Star Wars defense be then?

It really looks to be sort of a pipe dream, this super nukeshield the US gubarmint seems intent on aquiring.

frumpleswift
8th June 07, 06:30 PM
Anyone other than me?

Here is one of many links to articles explaining why it is not the best system we ever thought up:

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&colID=1&articleID=000A45A2-E044-115D-A04483414B7F0000

Basically the systems are somewhat effective against one missile (but there have been many tests with ~25% success or less) but very innefective against multiple missiles.

elipson
8th June 07, 07:20 PM
This system is not designed to take down mutliple missiles. Bush has been very clear that it is designed against single attacks from rogue nations, not coordinated attacks from a major player.

frumpleswift
8th June 07, 09:13 PM
This system is not designed to take down mutliple missiles. Bush has been very clear that it is designed against single attacks from rogue nations, not coordinated attacks from a major player.

I wonder how much of that clarity has to do with the fact that he knows he couldn't argue its effectiveness against multiple missiles. Still it seems like a bloody waste of money (but a good way to excuse $80 billion plus dollars of wasted research)

Since it is designed to defend against Rogue Nations TM, how does it fare against their more liekely means of attack, say flying airplanes into buildins, sneaking in bombs in carog containers, or poisoning the water?

Stick
8th June 07, 09:29 PM
So basically, your position is that wearing a bullet proof vest is pointless cause, well holy crap it's not like it will stop an armor piercing .50!

Some missile defense is better than no missile defense, and there is absolutly no good reason not to develope technology that could stop a nuclear warhead from killing millions of people.

Also, how the fuck did a thread about ow Putin is becomming a Bond villain turn into "yer-hcuk, Bush is the font of all evil"? Seriously, you know there was a country called Russia and a man named Putin before Bush was elected, right?

And I conclude, you fucking twits.

frumpleswift
8th June 07, 09:40 PM
Some missile defense is better than no missile defense, and there is absolutly no good reason not to develope technology that could stop a nuclear warhead from killing millions of people.

Except that the system doesn't work. A bullet proof vest does.

It is more like I offered you a piece of tissue paper, told you it was bullet proof, then asked you for $10,000 for the paper.

The time and money that went into this system would have been much better spent working on feasible solutions to the problem. Simply calling in strategic air strikes against any potential missile site would be cheaper and more effective.

Furthermore, detonating large amounts of radioactive material over populated areas (while better than a nuclear blast) is still not the healthiest approach.

The system is just stupid ego posturing on America's part, and was responded to in kind by pathetic Russian posturing.

Oh for the good old days of the Cold War where we actually had a definable targetable threat.

Stick
8th June 07, 09:50 PM
And the first powered flight lasted 12 seconds.

ICBMs and other long range missiles are a real technology that rogue nations are investing time, effort, and money in (NK's got the dong) and that can devastate large populations; developing the technology to counter them is not a waste of money.

Just because a disease proves difficult to treat doesn't mean you should just go see Kavorkian.

frumpleswift
8th June 07, 10:05 PM
And the first powered flight lasted 12 seconds.

ICBMs and other long range missiles are a real technology that rogue nations are investing time, effort, and money in (NK's got the dong) and that can devastate large populations; developing the technology to counter them is not a waste of money.

Just because a disease proves difficult to treat doesn't mean you should just go see Kavorkian.

First off I think the research is okay, but it was rolled out far too soon, when there isn't really a need for it. We would have a much better handle on Iran or North Korea's weapons development if we focused on other forms of prevention.

But this system, as it stands, wont work. It is placing a bandage over a sucking chest wound.

Secondly I think that the whole approach has been very impracticle, and only military stuborness has pushed it this far. It is like we are still trying to dogfight in the age of guided missiles. I think laser based missile defense would be much more practical than trying to shoot down one missile with another. Or maybe some kind of focused EMP device.

Have you ever tried to shoot an arrow out of the air with another arrow? How about a bullet?

Furthermore if we can learn anything from 9/11 it is that we are most vulnerable to non-standard methods of attack. We are entering an age of guerilla warfare, we shouldn't be taking a step back towards cold war defense strategies.

Sun Wukong
9th June 07, 12:42 AM
Dai, you're kidding me right? You think this missile defense system is to stop global nuclear war? The damn thing is a joke, and we're already paying to have it installed. That's like building a car and putting in a V-8 engine with only two spark plugs in it.

25%? What happens if a rogue state fires say, 20 conventional missiles and 1 nuke? You think this fucking system is going to help out? They already know how to defeat the damn thing.

Let's not make bones about this:

Putin doesn't want Russia to take the back seat to the united states forever. The Iraq war has given Putin a large degree of diplomatic leverage to force the US to the bargaining tables over any military or defense initiative. It's in his best interest to force our hands and it's in his best interest to challenge every step that we take militarily.

Why is it in his best interests to be a thorn in our sides?

1. It safeguards Russian interests from the possibility of US aggression. It's basic military theory to make possible adversaries advances towards you as difficult as possible.

2. It buys him all the free good will from his own people that money can't buy. Believe it or not, alot of regular citizens around the world think the US is imperialist.

3. People are scared to death of a nuclear holocaust. if they don't have missile defense systems in place as well, then the only people whose nuclear missiles will work are the people with them. IE, mutually assured destruction disappears and the technologically inferior country is left highly strategically disadvantaged.

4, The more he points out how much assholes the US military is to the world, the more it takes the focus off of him. <----- which works out nicely when you don't like the press pointing the finger at you.



So what I'm trying to say, is that as much as a missile defense system woud be dandy, the thing that would better is to either put one in that works or just try not to start a nuclear war until you figure out how to make one that works.

By the way, the Taepo Dong will probably never fucking fly straight. The NK military is on a shoestring budget and probably won't even have an accurate working long range prototype for 30 or 40 years. Seriously, they suck.

DAYoung
9th June 07, 03:31 AM
Er.

Judo wins again?

Steve
9th June 07, 03:35 AM
Er.

Judo wins again?

Yes.

Shawarma
9th June 07, 03:49 AM
In this thread, Dai-Tenshi is wrong, frumpleswift is right. This thing reeks of "We're still using ideas that were out of date ten years ago" with a side order of "Wohoo, lotsa moneys for defense contractors for providing useless ICBM defense." Which they will be, because the nukes will most likely be smuggled in by truck or boat, as I said. ICBMs are something you have to make people quake in fear, like what L'il Kimmy is doing, having people kiss his ass because of it, they're not something you USE.

Spend the retarded amount of money spent on this on hardcore border security measures or something similar instead.

DerAuslander108
9th June 07, 11:56 AM
(NK's got the dong)

No, North Korea's got the Nodong and the Taeopdong. Dong in Korean means shit.

Wait.

Yes.

North Korea's got shit.

That is all.

Carry on.

frumpleswift
9th June 07, 12:05 PM
No, North Korea's got the Nodong and the Taeopdong. Dong in Korean means shit.

Wait.

Yes.

North Korea's got shit.

That is all.

Carry on.

So the guy I know named Dong K. Kim...his name is shit?

DerAuslander108
9th June 07, 01:11 PM
Nah...it's actually 똥 that means shit.

Steve
17th July 07, 01:57 PM
Russia halts arms control treaty participation
Moscow’s move would allow buildup of military along its borders

Updated: 7:49 a.m. PT July 14, 2007

http://msnbcmedia2.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/070714/070714_russiaarms_hmed_7a.hmedium.jpgMOSCOW - Russia on Saturday suspended its participation in a key European arms control treaty that governs deployment of troops on the continent, the Kremlin said, a move that threatened to further aggravate Moscow’s already tense relations with the West.

President Vladimir Putin signed a decree suspending Russia’s participation in the Conventional Forces in Europe Treaty due to “extraordinary circumstances ... which affect the security of the Russian Federation and require immediate measures,” the Kremlin said in a statement.

Putin has in the past threatened to freeze his country’s compliance with the treaty, accusing the United States and its NATO partners of undermining regional stability with U.S. plans for a missile defense system in former Soviet bloc countries in Eastern Europe.

Under the moratorium, Russia will halt inspections and verifications of its military sites by NATO countries and will no longer limit the number of its conventional weapons, the Foreign Ministry said in a statement.

The White House reacted with disappointment to Russia’s decision.

“We’re disappointed Russia has suspended its participation for now, but we’ll continue to have discussions with them in the coming months on the best way to proceed in this area — that is in the interest of all parties involved and provides for security in Europe,” Gordon Johndroe, a spokeman for the National Security Council, said in a statement.

In Brussels, NATO spokesman James Appathurai condemned the decision. “NATO regrets this decision by the Russian Federation. It is a step in the wrong direction,” Appathurai said.

The treaty, between Russian and NATO members, was signed in 1990 and amended in 1999 to reflect changes since the breakup of the Soviet Union, adding the requirement that Moscow withdraw troops from the former Soviet republics of Moldova and Georgia.

Russia has ratified the amended version, but the United States and other NATO members have refused to do so until Russia completely withdraws.

‘Situation contradicts Russia’s interests’

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Russia could no longer tolerate a situation where it was complying with the treaty but its partners were not, and he expressed hope that Russia’s move would induce Western nations to commit to the updated treaty.

“Such a situation contradicts Russia’s interests,” Peskov told The Associated Press. “Russia continues to expect that other nations that have signed the CFE will fulfill their obligations.”

The treaty is seen as a key element in maintaining stability in Europe. It establishes limitations on countries’ deployment of tanks, armored combat vehicles, artillery, attack helicopters and combat aircraft.

Withdrawal from the Conventional Forces in Europe Treaty would allow Moscow to build up forces near its borders.

But Russian military analysts have said the possibility of suspending participation in the treaty was a symbolic rising of ante in the missile shield showdown more than a sign of impending military escalation.

‘It will seriously spoil relations’

Pavel Felgenhauer, a Moscow-based defense analyst, said the moratorium probably won’t result in any major buildup of heavy weaponry in European Russia. Russia has no actual interest in the highly costly build up of forces because it faces no real military threat and has no plans to launch an attack of its won, he said.

But, he said, it could mean an end to onsite inspections and verifications by NATO countries, which many European nations rely on to keep track of Russian deployments.

For the United States, the moratorium will mostly be a symbolic gesture, he said, since the U.S. has an extensive intelligence network that keeps close track of Russian forces. But it will still be seen as another unfriendly move in Washington, Felgenhauer predicted.

“This will be a major irritant,” he said. “It will seriously spoil relations. The kind of soothing effect from the last summit with Putin and (President) Bush will evaporate swiftly,” he said referring a summit between the leaders earlier this month at the Bush family home in Kennebunkport, Maine.

Felgenhauer also said that there is no provision under the treaty for a moratorium, suggesting Russia was acting illegally. “This is basically non-compliance, and this is an illegal move,” he said.

----------------------------------

Link. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19757035/)

Well, perhaps just more saber rattling...

Shawarma
17th July 07, 04:42 PM
"Perhaps?"

The western media makes me laff. They're portraying this as THE COMMIES ARE COMING OH NOES HIDE YOUR CAPITALIST WIMMENS LOOK WE TOLD YOU THEY WERE EVIL rather than as what it is: Limp-wristed saber rattling by a Russia powerless to stop the US from their anti-nuke shield that is CLEARLY directed against the Russia of the future once they become a real challenger to the US on a global scale again. And the media has the AUDACITY to act as if this is entirely unprovoked Ruski agression.

If the media had an ass, I would kick it.

frumpleswift
17th July 07, 05:52 PM
"Perhaps?"

The western media makes me laff. They're portraying this as THE COMMIES ARE COMING OH NOES HIDE YOUR CAPITALIST WIMMENS LOOK WE TOLD YOU THEY WERE EVIL rather than as what it is: Limp-wristed saber rattling by a Russia powerless to stop the US from their anti-nuke shield that is CLEARLY directed against the Russia of the future once they become a real challenger to the US on a global scale again. And the media has the AUDACITY to act as if this is entirely unprovoked Ruski agression.

You see...we miss the cold war. Without it we have noone to prop up as the enemy, and no way to keep our military industrial complex well fed. We're forced to exaggerate the terrorist threat, and define a new "Axis of Evil," but that has alrady started to wear thin.

Now the USSR was a real threat...something we could sink our teeth into.


If the media had an ass, I would kick it.

Well...if you kick Ted Turner and Rupert Murdoch you will have covered about 99% of it.

Shawarma
17th July 07, 05:56 PM
I know! It's fucking pathetic watching you try to prop up a couple thousand religious asshats with Kalashnikovs and homemade bombs as this HUGE threat to western civilization.

Get back to focusing on the Chinese, please.

frumpleswift
17th July 07, 06:08 PM
I know! It's fucking pathetic watching you try to prop up a couple thousand religious asshats with Kalashnikovs and homemade bombs as this HUGE threat to western civilization.

Get back to focusing on the Chinese, please.

When I take over, things will be different, don't worry.

TM
19th July 07, 04:54 PM
We have bubbas' with scoped deer rifles and pump 12 gauges in four wheel drive pickups. We have multitudes of thousands of them. Bring it on baby.

Sun Wukong
19th July 07, 05:30 PM
Get back to focusing on the Chinese, please.


Yeah, because military tension with China would be very productive.

TM
20th July 07, 10:30 AM
It would be brilliant, like that smooth move hitler made attacking russia.