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View Full Version : New Zealand piggies. How do they deal with drunken Samoans?



Kein Haar
1st June 07, 09:10 PM
Anti-taser and anti-spray?

Meaning the taser isn't there, and spray is a novelty?

And this video is supposed to be anti both.

The footage provides all the best reasons FOR it.

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I don't get it.


Kiwis respond

Stick
2nd June 07, 11:04 AM
So what the fuck are they supposed to use? Batons? Guns?

Some people are truly devoid of reason.

Alarmist pansy-assed kiwis.

That's a very telling line, "Do we want to arm the NZ police and what are the consequences?" So am I to take it that right now Kiwi cops are completely unarmed when enforcing the law and defending the public?

Mas
2nd June 07, 04:48 PM
How many lives have tazers saved?

Probably a good deal of people are breathing and living because of tazers, where deadly force may have been warranted.

Whatever, the video had bad arguments against the tazer, easily picked apart by someone with half a brain.

bob
2nd June 07, 06:07 PM
A Samoan friend of mine told me this story about his cousin.

Big guy, young, aggressive, off the rails a bit. One day he got into a bit of trouble with the law and four policemen were having trouble arresting him. They were on the verge of going in with the batons and pepper spray when one of them (who knew him from previous incidents) suggested to him that if he didn't calm the fuck down and get in the back of the van, he was going to call his mum. He got in the back of the van.

Samoan mums > Tasers.

Truculent Sheep
2nd June 07, 06:34 PM
I think anyone who is to be equipped with a taser should be zapped by one a few times first, so they learn not to use them without good cause.

Apart from that, I'm all for them. Especially when they're used on chavs.

Kein Haar
3rd June 07, 12:15 AM
Getting zapped before certification is par for the course.

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Short of something which would consitute injury or disease, I can't think of a more painful stimulus. Very motivating for all but the dumbest of fucks....

Like this college kid:

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danno
4th June 07, 07:31 AM
that situation in the college was ridiculous. totally uneccessary. if he refused to go after having talked to him for a few minutes i would have just dragged him out.

just a couple of weeks ago i had trouble convincing a year 12 student to leave a school event. after some discussion which deteriorated into a shouting match i took him down and restrained him. he struggled like crazy then gave up when he realised he had no hope. i felt him fade, then he said "OK I'LL LEAVE". i believed him, so i let him up and he just left, swearing and whatnot as he walked away.

i did this by myself without tazers, batons or anything. i was wearing a baton at the time though.

Neildo
4th June 07, 01:16 PM
They spelled Alcohol with two "h's" and health with no "L". Oh, and Roll with an "E". har har.

150+ people killed in taser related deaths, and how many successful arrests?

My money is on the taser.

edit: the footage they provide from the Anti-War protest in pittsburgh '05 says: tased a female activist while she was already retrained on the ground.

no she wasn't, i saw arms flailing all over the place while she was flopping around. that's not restrained. also, she was resisting the officer, so she deserved it.

and in the last video with the chick in Florida, what the video fails to mention is she was driving with expired tags on a suspended license, not to mention the total non-compliance. she deserved every volt.

Kein Haar
4th June 07, 05:21 PM
Danno,

On what are you basing your conclusions?

Did I miss a clear view of something?

Mr. Jones
4th June 07, 06:05 PM
A Samoan friend of mine told me this story about his cousin.

Big guy, young, aggressive, off the rails a bit. One day he got into a bit of trouble with the law and four policemen were having trouble arresting him. They were on the verge of going in with the batons and pepper spray when one of them (who knew him from previous incidents) suggested to him that if he didn't calm the fuck down and get in the back of the van, he was going to call his mum. He got in the back of the van.

Samoan mums > Tasers.

Some of you think that's probably funny. But his mom would probably beat the shit out of him. Hell my friend who's Hawaiian( I mean straight up Hawiian not a Chinese person living in Hawaii who has Hawaiian ancestry) was scarred shitless of his mom. If him or his father got smart with her she would beat the shit out of all of them. Before I met her I had no idea a woman could have a body built like that.

Shawarma
4th June 07, 06:10 PM
Which is least pleasant, getting shocked by a taser or hit with pepper spray?

Stick
4th June 07, 06:45 PM
Pepper spray, it lasts.

But beween the two, a tazer is more reliable.

danno
4th June 07, 09:06 PM
Danno,

On what are you basing your conclusions?

Did I miss a clear view of something?

from what i understand of the story behind that video, the kid was a real dickhead and i don't feel that sorry for him really, but i believe that zapping him was completely uneccessary. i think it was a case of taking the easy option for the officers. he could have been dragged out without leaving a mark on him. besides, if they'd been a little more patient he might have left anyway. he says "I SAID WAS GOING TO LEAVE" just after they zapped him the first time. when people say they are going to leave they usually mean it, but they often take their time because they are reluctant to do so. you just have to wait a little while for them be satisfied that they had sufficiently rebelled against the powers that be and stuck it to the man, striking another blow against big brother.

Neildo
4th June 07, 09:13 PM
I'd rather drag a compliant, albeit well-stunned person out of a building rather than a feisty, struggling person.

I have been in the security field for 10 years now. I've had to drag my share of jerks.





I wish they'd give me a taser. not that i need it where i'm posted now, but i'd still take one.

danno
4th June 07, 09:30 PM
there are situations where a taser will be a great help, but that kid didn't need a taser. if he was a huge monster of a kid then i'd see it differently, but still i think he just would have left if he was given more of a chance. then there would have been no youtube video and no media circus.

Stick
4th June 07, 09:55 PM
See, that's the thing about tazers, they don't leave a mark- man handling often does.

Sure, with a compliant offender/suspect/douchebag who just needs to leave the libary you might get away with leading him by the arm simply grabbing him, moving him around as needed, but if you missjudge and the guy is not a compliant offender/suspect/douchebag you may just set him off and find yourself in a hand to hand situation that could end up a lot worse for both of you than just tazing him for making a scene and not cooperatin.

BTW: pro tip Never give a cop lip, ever. It's fucking stupid and only ever makes things worse.

danno
4th June 07, 11:07 PM
See, that's the thing about tazers, they don't leave a mark- man handling often does.

don't little hooks go into the skin?


Sure, with a compliant offender/suspect/douchebag who just needs to leave the libary you might get away with leading him by the arm simply grabbing him, moving him around as needed, but if you missjudge and the guy is not a compliant offender/suspect/douchebag you may just set him off and find yourself in a hand to hand situation that could end up a lot worse for both of you than just tazing him for making a scene and not cooperatin.

in the situation i was referring to before - i had been talking to the kid for about 5 minutes or more, gave him every chance in the world until i had had enough. then i touched his arm and said "c'mon, let's go". he slapped my hand away, so i took him down. he had flat out refused to leave, thought he had every right in the world to stay there and thought the law was on his side. he realised that wasn't the case and as i said before he got up and left without any marks on him that i could see.

if one of those cops from the video was in my recent situation they would have tased him! he would have been screaming and thrashing about in pain... completely uneccessary.

security and police need to get better at grappling imo. in fact, i think that they all should have a blue belt in BJJ before they are allowed to work... but of course i realise this is unreasonable!

anyways, i suspect that it wouldn't have been necessary to touch that kid in the video at all, and he would have walked out.


BTW: pro tip Never give a cop lip, ever. It's fucking stupid and only ever makes things worse.

exactly. shut up you fools! if they have done you wrong, do something about it the next day.

Stick
5th June 07, 12:17 AM
Wait a second, in what capacity were you exercising authority?

Steve
5th June 07, 12:31 AM
His profile says that he works security.

danno
5th June 07, 12:37 AM
i'm a security guard. do everything from static guard work to crowd control. quitting the job entirely in about 3 or 4 weeks though.

Stick
5th June 07, 01:25 AM
Wait, so they issue you a baton but not a tazer or CS?

You know a baton can be used to kill roughly %100 of people and tazers/CS aren't even fatal to %1 right?

Something that really bothers me is this kneejerk fear reaction to new options for law enforcement.

For decades now police forces around the world have been desperatly looking for real less-than-lethal options for dealing with violent or troublesome (just because someone has yet to engage in violence doen't mean a cop is obligated to wait for them to strike first, no really) offenders/suspects. Police, city halls, mayors, comissioners, scientists, concerned citizens, whatever are activly pursuing ways of enforcing the law that will limmit unnecessary fatalities.

And yet.... and yet there is a small, vocal part of the population that looks at these new options and responds in abject terror at the introduction of a device whose sole purpose is to make the enforcement of society's law a more bloodless endeavour.

Honestly, I remember reading a thread about the new ADS (Active Denial System), an energy weapon that induces pain in the nerves but has yet to produce any lasting damage/side-effects in testing, and half the thread was "OMG 1984, the pigs are going to fucking revoke our rights!"

Not surprisingly, the people most apt to complain are the ones who like to march, and demonstrate and frankly should be thankful that the cops that they're going to run into will have something non-lethal to apply on them.

But then they cry out "the cops will abuse these new weapons of TERRAH!" Well guess what asshole, that's a completely different fucking issue! Bad cops are bad cops and should be dealt with, but the less-than-lethal tools made available- especially to, bad cops for god's sake- are about as far from the problem as you can fucking get.

I pray that if I am ever in a PCP/meth induced raged the officers that bring me down have some awesome non-lethal weapons at their dissposal!

YARGH!!!!!

/rant

danno
5th June 07, 02:34 AM
in my company we aren't "issued" with batons, it is up to us to buy them. mine is extendable and steel. we aren't allowed to use them while doing crowd control.

during static guard work and occasional events like this school social thing we are asked to wear our batons. but we are expected not to use them unless we're in a really bad situation, like someone has a weapon or we're outnumbered. if i pulled a baton on that kid i would have been in deep trouble legally. we can't even use it to threaten people.

i've never used my baton. i've only grappled in all the physical incidents i've been involved in. i've never hit anyone, but i've choked a couple of people out. the scratches on the paint of my baton are from showing it to my mates.

in australia police have guns and batons. not sure if they have tazers but i wouldn't mind at all if they were introduced.

i just have a big problem with how the cops handled that kid in the video. in that situation i think it made things worse, not better.