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View Full Version : Is Scotland Ready For Independence?



frumpleswift
16th May 07, 10:21 PM
It looks like the old Scottish independence argument is starting up again, but is that nation of plucky little drunks ready to rule itself?


EDINBURGH, Scotland - The leader of the pro-indepedence Scottish National Party was installed Wednesday at the head of the new government in Scotland.

Alex Salmond's party narrowly won elections May 3 that ended more than a half-century of dominance by the Labour Party.

In the campaign, Scottish Nationalists promised to hold a referendum on independence from the rest of the United Kingdom by 2010. However, every other party in the Scottish Parliament favors the status quo and a referendum appears unlikely.

Salmond pledged to work with other parties.

"Scotland is ready for change, ready for reform," he said. "We are a small nation but we have a big future. We also have some big challenges."

Salmond, 52, led the Scottish National Party from 1990 to 2000, when he surprisingly stepped down. He caused as much suprise four years later when he became a candidate to again lead the party.

Sean Connery is a big proponent of Scottish independence, and crazy-ass director Mel Gibson's Braveheart gave a big boost to the movement in thr 90's.

But really, do we honestly want the Scots in charge of anything? Look how they fucked up continually throughout history. Bonie Prince Charlie was a joke. The Stuarts were all stubborn, scottish, and probably Roman Catholic. Christ, Charles I made Oliver Cromwell look appealing.

The scots make great alcohol, but that is pretty much all they have going for them, fans of Highlander not withstanding.

WarPhalange
16th May 07, 10:38 PM
What's the point?

frumpleswift
16th May 07, 10:42 PM
Racial/cultural pride? Or some such stupidity.

WarPhalange
16th May 07, 10:44 PM
It's a small fucking island. They don't need to split it up even more.

bob
17th May 07, 01:04 AM
I guess the point would be that they could ally themselves more closely with Europe, take on the Euro and dissociate themselves from English foreign policy. Not to mention pretend that it makes up for centuries of the English lording it over them.

Shawarma
17th May 07, 02:11 AM
Oh yeah, Scotland should get independence. Let them finance that big fucking welfare slum that IS Scotland themselves.

Matsufubu
17th May 07, 03:36 AM
Heh heh...this is something I'm very interested in, as an Englishman who used to live in Scotland.

Scottish independence:

British Parliament: "There will be an 11 billion defecit in your budget, and you will not be able to sustain your quality of life."

SNP: "Yeah, but, we hate English people!"

British Parliament: "You'll have to go begging cap-in-hand to Brussels, and accept the Euro and all of their terms."

SNP: "Boo! Down with England"

British Parliament: "We're already a small island; together we are stronger in Europe and the world."

SNP: "Err...centuries of oppression...umm...Braveheart...err...FREEDOM!"

Here's some news for you guys not familiar with Britain: England does not oppress Scotland, far from it. We keep them afloat. Our next Prime Minister is a Scot for goodness' sakes. The fact of the matter is that Scotland would have to go begging to Brussels and rely on EU subsidies, like some semi-developed shithole. Perhaps that would be fine, but the fact remains that Scotland would be held in the palm of the EU far more so than it is with England (i.e. not at all), and is not important enough to have any say in EU politics without England. This isn't the 14th century any more, it's just nationalistic nonsense based on stupid rivalry with England and watching too much Braveheart (I can vouch for this from experience).

And don't get me started on the history of England and Scotland. Braveheart is not a historical documentary, and Scotland is far, far away from the 'victim' it loves to play, nor is it innocent in history.

bob
17th May 07, 04:23 AM
Matsu, I hear what you're saying. As someone who lived in Wales and had to live through all their laughable talk of independence (far more unlikely and unworkable than the Scots) I sympathise.

However, what about the Republic of Ireland? They've really flourished by jumping into Europe with both feet.

Matsufubu
17th May 07, 04:53 AM
Yes, I think that this is what would happen with Scotland, and I presume that this is what the SNP are thinking will happen. However, I don't think the SNP are smart or strong enough to replicate Ireland's success, nor is the Scottish economy or infrastructure strong enough to support such growth.

Some people say that Scotland would collapse without England, but I disagree. It wouldn't collapse; it would just need to find another support, i.e. Europe. Scotland would rely on EU subsidies, and without either the population or the economy to influence Brussels, will essentially become 'just another country', a client state of Germany and France. Not to mention the potentially disastrous effects on trade with England, which Scotland would rely on for most of its trade income. France and Germany would use Scotland to try to undermine England, which would just lead to a cold economic war and bad relations between countries.

England would have a puppet-state of it's European rivals on it's borders, and independence would only increase the feeling of separation, and even breed ill-feeling between the countries. Like Poop-Loops said, we're already a tiny island already, breaking us up would perhaps make England slightly weaker (or maybe much stronger since we'd have loads of extra money to invest?) and Scotland completely helpless, but with the chance of some EU handouts.

But hey, "FREEDOM!", right?

Liffguard
17th May 07, 05:37 PM
There are numerous benefits for England if Scotland does pursue independence. Aside from the alleviation of the subsidies that Westminster already provides (as Matsufubu stated above) it would also solve the West Lothian question. In fact, the West Lothian question and the economic situation are pretty closely tied.

Scotland's public sector is far more extensive than England's. I think Scottish public spending is roughly 40% of GDP. The reason Scotland has this larger public sector is that they have their own devolved parliament that has a certain degree of independence on various social and economic issues. They raise their own taxes, have their own education policy, their own welfare policy etc. In spite of this, they also send MPs to Westminster. What this means is that elected Scottish MPs can vote on Bills in Westminster that don't apply to Scotland. Scotland can force legislation on England that otherwise would have ben defeated even though said legislation might not apply to Scotland. The controversial University Top-up Fees Bill was voted in in this way.

Personally, I think Scotland and England are too economically entangled for independence to make a huge economic difference. However, it could help solve some political/social issues.

Matsufubu
18th May 07, 03:54 AM
What would really help is if we wiped the ginger bastards off the face of the planet, and repopulated Scotland with proper people like me.

Iscariot
18th May 07, 06:25 PM
I'm happy to let Scotland go. They can have Northern Ireland as a divorce present.

Truculent Sheep
19th May 07, 10:57 PM
I'm half Scottish and so had to put up with 26-odd years of some jumped-up Weegie prat of a father ranting on about 'the dirty English bastards', which was rich coming from someone who had lived in England for almost longer than he had dwelt in the land of heroin, heart disease and blokes in skirts.

Perhaps the worst trait of the Scots is the odd juxtaposition of self-pity and arrogant self-regard. That is to say, they talk shit because they're full of it. Let the tossers have their independence: the only real loser will be the Labour Party which will lose its precious Scottish MPs.

billy sol hurok
20th May 07, 09:35 AM
I'm half Scottish and so had to put up with 26-odd years of some jumped-up Weegie prat of a father ranting on about 'the dirty English bastards', which was rich coming from someone who had lived in England for almost longer than he had dwelt in the land of heroin, heart disease and blokes in skirts.

Perhaps the worst trait of the Scots is the odd juxtaposition of self-pity and arrogant self-regard. That is to say, they talk shit because they're full of it. Let the tossers have their independence: the only real loser will be the Labour Party which will lose its precious Scottish MPs.
Are you suggesting that it's shite being Scottish?

http://mel.icious.net/albums/trainspotting/trainspotting_015.jpg

Matsufubu
20th May 07, 09:57 AM
Many people don't realise that Trainspotting is actually an incredibly accurate documentary...on the Scottish upper classes.

frumpleswift
20th May 07, 10:08 AM
Many people don't realise that Trainspotting is actually an incredibly accurate documentary...on the Scottish upper classes.

Upper class being people who can actually afford heroin?

Yiktin Voxbane
20th May 07, 10:20 AM
Renton for the first Scot PM ?

Mother Superior had far better organizational skillz .

Iscariot
20th May 07, 12:27 PM
Are you suggesting that it's shite being Scottish?

http://mel.icious.net/albums/trainspotting/trainspotting_015.jpg
Yes.
e0nPXOAREU0

Matsufubu
20th May 07, 03:27 PM
Upper class being people who can actually afford heroin?

Upper class being the ones that don't still live in caves.

We need somebody Scottish on here to defend their country. It doesn't feel right bashing such a lovely country without anyone to defend it.

Which war between England and France was it where the English and French had talks of wiping out Scotland because the French found their allies so disgusting? Was it the Hundred Years War? I forget.

frumpleswift
20th May 07, 03:30 PM
Upper class being the ones that don't still live in caves.[/quotes]

Caves? It takes brains and effort to live in caves. Don't most Scots live in little hovels cuddling with their sheep? And is that why the British were always so eager to conquer the sheep rich land? Ewe envy?

[quote]We need somebody Scottish on here to defend their country. It doesn't feel right bashing such a lovely country without anyone to defend it.

Scotland is lovely but "the trouble with Scotland is that it is full of Scots"

Iscariot
20th May 07, 03:31 PM
Which war between England and France was it where the English and French had talks of wiping out Scotland because the French found their allies so disgusting? Was it the Hundred Years War? I forget.
World War Two.

Matsufubu
20th May 07, 04:45 PM
I wonder if when Scotland gets 'independence' (heh), we can accuse them of hating America and having WMDs? We'd own them soooo bad.

NorthWest
23rd May 07, 06:56 AM
We need somebody Scottish on here to defend their country. It doesn't feel right bashing such a lovely country without anyone to defend it.
But you see, it is shite being Scottish.
Choose Scotland. Choose heroin addiction, alcoholism, drink fuelled street violence, poverty, deprivation, a toothless devolved national assembly full of jumped up town councillors, welfare dependency, Catholic/Protestant sectarian violence, terrible diet, the worst cardiac health in the developed world, no industry, call centres, shitey weather, Midges, George Galloway, everywhere that isn't Glasgow or Edinburgh and a fucking weird attitude towards England.

I could go on.

On the plus side, we do have some nice scenery, apparently. Mountains and such.
And some of the whisky is not too bad at all.

Don't be misled by the SNP's narrow victory. That result was more about giving Labour a kicking at the polls than any real desire for actual independence.
Or maybe it was a fluke, thanks to the seeming inability of 150000 of my fellow countrymen to follow simple instructions.

Sun Wukong
24th May 07, 04:06 AM
I always thought about going to scotland to look for my familial roots, but decided I'd probably just get beaten up for being a damn yankee or for saying that soccer is a wimpy sport.

sochin101
24th May 07, 04:22 AM
I haven't been to Scotland, but my parents (who are avid walkers) love the place for its beautiful countryside.
They tell me that the majority of the people living outside the metropolitan (LOL) areas of Scotland are mainly English who have moved up there for the cheap property and the easy pace of life.
Plus, most towns in England have a vast population of disgruntled Scots, who for some reason can't find their way home, continually whining about how shit England is compared the their heather-strewn mountain homes. That's in between taking long drinks from the cheap bottle booze they've begged to get.

Emperor Hadrian was a visionary.

NorthWest
24th May 07, 05:00 AM
Scotland really is a strange little country, no doubt about it.

Incidentally, the next one of you cunts that uses the "all scots are alcoholic beggars" stereotype is getting fucking stabbed.

sochin101
24th May 07, 05:04 AM
Scotland really is a strange little country, no doubt about it.

Incidentally, the next one of you cunts that uses the "all scots are alcoholic beggars" stereotype is getting fucking stabbed.
Yes, I was remiss in my post. Thank you sincerely for pointing it out.
All Scots are VIOLENT alcoholic beggars.

bob
24th May 07, 05:07 AM
The real question is who has the character and strength of will to lead this newly independent state to glory?







http://users.bigpond.net.au/simpsons/willygreasemeup.jpg

NorthWest
24th May 07, 06:47 AM
The real question is who has the character and strength of will to lead this newly independent state to glory?
http://www.cageofmonkeys.co.uk/pics/begbie.jpg

Iscariot
26th May 07, 12:14 PM
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