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polishillusion
6th April 07, 06:18 PM
I was posting on Trollshido on the thread where a woman was questioning her husbands "realism" and "authenticity", and then posted pictures of herself naked not 5 minutes later. She was telling everyone she was married for a little over a year.

Now, a lot of things popped into my head such as "TROLL JOB". Now, sadly, I do not really think that is the truth. I think the truth is the "Modern ""American"" Woman" idea that is spreading around the world, as we speak. To better understand this, how about you guys check out -

http://www.nomarriage.com

This has my theories in it way better then I could explain with the time I want to spend on this post.

Discuss.

WarPhalange
6th April 07, 08:04 PM
I didn't think marriage was so popular with girls my age this day anyway.

Thinkchair
6th April 07, 09:03 PM
I was posting on Trollshido on the thread where a woman was questioning her husbands "realism" and "authenticity", and then posted pictures of herself naked not 5 minutes later. She was telling everyone she was married for a little over a year.

Now, a lot of things popped into my head such as "TROLL JOB". Now, sadly, I do not really think that is the truth. I think the truth is the "Modern ""American"" Woman" idea that is spreading around the world, as we speak. To better understand this, how about you guys check out -

http://www.nomarriage.com

This has my theories in it way better then I could explain with the time I want to spend on this post.

Discuss.

Thats why I marry women from outside of America. My first wife was Lebanese, and my second is Thai. Much easier to deal with than American women.

WarPhalange
6th April 07, 09:10 PM
Agreed. You can give them one black eye, even two, and those bitches will STILL keep fighting for "equality" or some such bullshit. Whereas with foreign women, they know they'd better fucking obey you. Why? Because YOU are the man. Don't belive you? Make them suck your cock.

amirite?

Thinkchair
6th April 07, 10:51 PM
Agreed. You can give them one black eye, even two, and those bitches will STILL keep fighting for "equality" or some such bullshit. Whereas with foreign women, they know they'd better fucking obey you. Why? Because YOU are the man. Don't belive you? Make them suck your cock.

amirite?

That is not what I had in mind.

What I meant was they see marriage more as a union than most American women who still want to go out and party after their married. I don't command my wife to do anything. She takes care of house and home happily and does not view this as taking away from her devolopment as a human being. She stays home and takes care of our new baby. She takes our daughter with her everywhere she goes. She would never think of asking to put her in child care so she could feel more fullfilled by having a career. I think American women are cold and unnatural because they view childrearing as a burden. They do not see the value of being a mother. They can only 'find themselves' by having a career.

ICY
6th April 07, 11:25 PM
YUDAMRITE!!!

WarPhalange
6th April 07, 11:58 PM
That is not what I had in mind.

What I meant was they see marriage more as a union than most American women who still want to go out and party after their married. I don't command my wife to do anything. She takes care of house and home happily and does not view this as taking away from her devolopment as a human being. She stays home and takes care of our new baby. She takes our daughter with her everywhere she goes. She would never think of asking to put her in child care so she could feel more fullfilled by having a career. I think American women are cold and unnatural because they view childrearing as a burden. They do not see the value of being a mother. They can only 'find themselves' by having a career.

It's also a good thing that foreign women have wider hips and a stronger frame, so that they can bear babies more successfully and defend against intruders when you are out hunting for food and bartering with other tribes.

I mean, having a career isn't all that it's cracked up to be. You work hard to get somewhere in life and that place is yours to keep and brag about. Having a child is much more rewarding. You get to have sex! Like, in the burgina! And giving birth isn't nearly as bad as they make it out to be. I was totally constipated once, and I turned out fine.

And then you can raise the child. After 18 or so years, they just up and leave, and then you are free to do whatever. How cool is that?

Okay, scratch that last part. I'm having trouble keeping this up while making it sound witty and not stretched out. My key points:

A career lasts a lifetime. A kid has outside influences, so it's never "yours" in the end. Especially when they leave and you are left alone, trying to pickup the life you had before hand. Oh right, tending to your husband's needs. Great.

Your wife is a stupid bitch. Tell her I said that. Then tell her to kick you in the balls so you never procreate again. My mom put me in a daycare and I had the best fun in my life. Fuck staying home and watching Barney with my mom EVERY FUCKING DAY. I wanted to play with other kids. In fact, the only reason she got a job was so she could pay for my daycare. She kicks ass.

I think I can't possibly have a valid opinion of "American Women", because I am a man. I don't know what it's like to be a woman, just like I don't know what it's like to be black, so I can't comment on that, either. All I know is, my current attitutes regarding life mirror that of "American Women" and I can't blame them for wanting to be as awesome as I am. The door swings both ways.

Thinkchair
7th April 07, 12:01 AM
It's also a good thing that foreign women have wider hips and a stronger frame, so that they can bear babies more successfully and defend against intruders when you are out hunting for food and bartering with other tribes.

I mean, having a career isn't all that it's cracked up to be. You work hard to get somewhere in life and that place is yours to keep and brag about. Having a child is much more rewarding. You get to have sex! Like, in the burgina! And giving birth isn't nearly as bad as they make it out to be. I was totally constipated once, and I turned out fine.

And then you can raise the child. After 18 or so years, they just up and leave, and then you are free to do whatever. How cool is that?

Okay, scratch that last part. I'm having trouble keeping this up while making it sound witty and not stretched out. My key points:

A career lasts a lifetime. A kid has outside influences, so it's never "yours" in the end. Especially when they leave and you are left alone, trying to pickup the life you had before hand. Oh right, tending to your husband's needs. Great.

Your wife is a stupid bitch. Tell her I said that. Then tell her to kick you in the balls so you never procreate again. My mom put me in a daycare and I had the best fun in my life. Fuck staying home and watching Barney with my mom EVERY FUCKING DAY. I wanted to play with other kids. In fact, the only reason she got a job was so she could pay for my daycare. She kicks ass.

I think I can't possibly have a valid opinion of "American Women", because I am a man. I don't know what it's like to be a woman, just like I don't know what it's like to be black, so I can't comment on that, either. All I know is, my current attitutes regarding life mirror that of "American Women" and I can't blame them for wanting to be as awesome as I am. The door swings both ways.

Fuck you and your lame ass avatar.

Why is my wife a stupid bitch? Because she is doing what she wants to do? You think I demanded that she stay home with the kid? No. She wants to. I was wise enough to marry someone who has the same outlook on these issues as myself. She in I knew before we got married what we were looking for. I like women who are feminine, sweet, good with children, and not sluts. If that makes me a "patriarchal oppressor" then so be it and fuck you.

I dont happen to agree that day care is healthy for children.

And cut it with the "I couldn't possibly understand what it is like because I am a man" shit. You sound like a pussy.

P.S. Your mom obviously didn't love you.

ironlurker
7th April 07, 01:16 AM
Fuck you and your lame ass avatar.

Oh man disrespecting the Warrior WTF
http://imgred.com/http://pr0n.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/4/44/Warrior3sf.gif
http://imgred.com/tn/http://pr0n.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/4/44/Warrior3sf.gif

Who's next, Kamala? Have you no respect?

http://imgred.com/http://www.progressiveboink.com/b/images/hogan/kamala.jpg


(http://www.progressiveboink.com/b/images/hogan/kamala.jpg)

WarPhalange
7th April 07, 01:19 AM
She in I knew before we got married

I can't argue with that.


I dont happen to agree that day care is healthy for children.

That's ok. You've proven your incompetence before. I've made a note not to care about what you think. Especially if you don't provide any sort of reasoning or evidence to back up your argument.


And cut it with the "I couldn't possibly understand what it is like because I am a man" shit. You sound like a pussy.

Actually, I said I don't, because I don't have one. If you think you know what it's like to be a woman while flailing around that 2" cock of yours, then you must know something I don't.


P.S. Your mom obviously didn't love you.

She bought me a He-Man sword when I was 6. It had the cool sound effects and lights when you hit it against something. If that's not love, I don't know what is.

polishillusion
7th April 07, 01:26 AM
Jesus, ThinkChair, did you even read that site?

The idea is not to get fleeced by women looking for a green card like you did, its to find a good, honorable wife thats not a bitch. You know what, you killed my argument.

On the other note, whatever, i do not ever have to worry about marrying an american chick anyways, fuck all of you who want to put up with their shit. Enjoy.

polishillusion
7th April 07, 01:29 AM
I didn't think marriage was so popular with girls my age this day anyway.

Did you read the site? Do not get married until you are 35 and you WANT TO HAVE KIDS. I guarantee it is more congruent to your philosophies then you think.

WarPhalange
7th April 07, 01:45 AM
Did you read what I wrote? The site says don't get married no matter what women tell you. I said "Women don't want to get married these days anyhow."

EDIT: Ok, I +repped you for the "fleeced into getting a green card" comment.

But I forgot how fucking stupid you are. Neg repping me over your illiteracy? For shame.

DAYoung
7th April 07, 06:08 AM
Thinkchair used to be so sweet (http://www.sociocide.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45022&page=5).

Kiko
7th April 07, 06:14 AM
After I have my coffee... The neg rep will FLY!

You guys have NO worries about any intelligent woman even speaking to you for more than 5 minutes, let alone wanting to marry you! GAH!

DAYoung
7th April 07, 06:20 AM
After I have my coffee... The neg rep will FLY!

You guys have NO worries about any intelligent woman even speaking to you for more than 5 minutes, let alone wanting to marry you! GAH!

B-b-b-b-b...but...

I'm married. With a son.

I'm really sweet.

Kiko
7th April 07, 06:22 AM
I didn't mean you, DAY.. I know you are.. I meant THEM!!!

*points at polishillusion and PL*

Thinkchair also seems like a nice normal guy in this thread.

DAYoung
7th April 07, 06:25 AM
Now I get it.

YOU'RE JUST PICKING ON THE ATHEISTS.

*remembers he's an atheist*

Oh.

Carry on.

Kiko
7th April 07, 06:37 AM
*rolls eyes* You know better, oh wise PK!
Of course if what they're talking about is young American GIRLS and mistaking them for women, they're pretty close. Day Care may be a necessary evil for some, but it is NOT good for kids. A career is NOT with you forever, it's just a means to an end. Finding a meaning to one's life isn't done in the workplace or a delivery room. Raising well adjusted kids IS an art, however and a noble one.

WHY do I waste my time??? I'm going to level my shaman....our group needs more healing and nurturing!

Shawarma
7th April 07, 08:44 AM
I had a great time in day care. I went after school till about 5, at which point my mother would pick me up. I read comics, played games and picked fights with the other kids. What is so sinister about day care in the US? Or does "Day Care" mean something other than what I think it does?

mrblackmagic
7th April 07, 09:10 AM
The problem is the lack of research.

Most parents dump their kids where ever it is most convient not bothering to get to know who is running the joint. So now you got someone who may have views and opinion completely different from your own raising your kid.

Not to mention and this sounds crazy to me too, getting into daycares is competitive.

Thinkchair
7th April 07, 09:35 AM
Jesus, ThinkChair, did you even read that site?

The idea is not to get fleeced by women looking for a green card like you did, its to find a good, honorable wife thats not a bitch. You know what, you killed my argument.

On the other note, whatever, i do not ever have to worry about marrying an american chick anyways, fuck all of you who want to put up with their shit. Enjoy.

Oh I made a point of not helping my wife to get a green card by marrying her. She already had one when I met her.

Thinkchair
7th April 07, 09:45 AM
I can't argue with that.



That's ok. You've proven your incompetence before. I've made a note not to care about what you think. Especially if you don't provide any sort of reasoning or evidence to back up your argument.



Actually, I said I don't, because I don't have one. If you think you know what it's like to be a woman while flailing around that 2" cock of yours, then you must know something I don't.



She bought me a He-Man sword when I was 6. It had the cool sound effects and lights when you hit it against something. If that's not love, I don't know what is.

There have been a number of studies demonstrating that day care leads to bad behavior when children grow up. However, my position is not based on such studies since most social science research these days is fueled by politics and far from objective. The newer studies seem to be supporting my position however. My position is simply based on my experience. Kids who are raised by a father who works, and a mommy who stays home, seem to turn out better. There are always going to be exceptions, but generally this seems to be the case. Besides I am not advocating that American women be forced to stay home. I just chose to marry a woman who had the same attitude about child rearing as I do. This is my choice. Fuck you if you don't like it. I have no problem if women want to go have careers, it is none of my business what other people do with their lives. What troubles me is the way the feminist movement has demonized women who actually prefer to raise their children over having a career. My own mother was ridiculed by the women who lived on our street for not putting her need to develope as a human being over her children. My wife gets the same treatment from her friends (who mostly put their children in day care so they can have a career). I happen to think that being a mother is important and should be respected. It should not be looked down upon. It is the most important job a woman can have. And these days, women who choose motherhood are made seen as having some kind of low status.

Thinkchair
7th April 07, 09:46 AM
Thinkchair used to be so sweet (http://www.sociocide.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45022&page=5).

I am still a sweet guy DAY. I am just misunderstood.

Also, Pooploops did call my wife a stupid bitch. I feel my reaction was justified.

ironlurker
7th April 07, 12:06 PM
There have been a number of studies demonstrating that day care leads to bad behavior when children grow up. However, my position is not based on such studies since most social science research these days is fueled by politics and far from objective. The newer studies seem to be supporting my position however. My position is simply based on my experience. Kids who are raised by a father who works, and a mommy who stays home, seem to turn out better. There are always going to be exceptions, but generally this seems to be the case.
Once again, its important not to oversimplify.
The studied indicated that children in daycare may become more aggressive
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2007/mar/07032607.html

Why? I would guess its because they're in close quarters with a large group, which means competition for attention, space, toys, and so on.

I'd bet $1000 that kids with lots of brothers and sisters tend to be more aggressive then those with few or none.

Once again, there can be other factors, such as the food at daycare
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21517318-421,00.html

A -good- daycare can be as good, even better than care at home. Why? Socialization. You're not going to spend your life within the confines of your family, learning how to make friends, yes fight for yourself, compete, get along with different people, and survive socially- these are all skills modern life demands.

The problem is bad daycares and bad or weak parents.

I. Bad daycares
A. Insufficient regulation- there's scandals over this all the time, where sex offenders get hired, twenty two year olds to one adult, etc.
B. Unlicensed daycare- a huge problem, that a friend of mine whose specialty is child development insists is much bigger than A, which is also under-reported

II. Bad Parents
A. Too apathetic to watch out for A and B above
B. Poor skills that do not help the child process its experiences and actions from a higher perspective than peer pressure/group identity

III. Weak Parents
A. They don't have the time and money to research and seek out good daycares, and can even economically be forced to use unlicensed ones
B. They don't have the knowledge to evaluate the daycare and its effect on their child

WarPhalange
7th April 07, 12:35 PM
So if you have a good parent, they will pick a good daycare for you. Who'da thunk it?

You got your sibling reactions ass-backwards. Most single children I know are crazy. Most people with siblings are moderate and actually know how to share and help others. Is it a rule? Fuck no. Like I said, it depends on a LOT of factors. But having siblings is usually a good thing, unless of course the parents are shit.

I called your wife a stupid bitch for dragging your daughter around everywhere. Does she want to go to the bank? To Safeway? To get her fucking hair done? I think not.

ironlurker
7th April 07, 01:05 PM
You got your sibling reactions ass-backwards. Most single children I know are crazy. Most people with siblings are moderate and actually know how to share and help others. Is it a rule? Fuck no. Like I said, it depends on a LOT of factors. But having siblings is usually a good thing, unless of course the parents are shit.
Okay, surprisingly you're actually right


RESULTS: The risk for violent crimes later in life was elevated among the only children. If perinatal or parental risks were combined with being an only child, the odds ratios for violent offending increased four-fold to eight-fold. A corresponding risk increase between being an only child and nonviolent offending was not detected. CONCLUSIONS: These results support the hypothesis that growing up as an only child is associated with violent criminality among male subjects. http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/158/6/960

But- what you said supports what I was trying to say, and I'll refine it

The main negative outcome studies have shown from daycare is increased aggression.
I think this could be "functional" aggression that comes from being in a large group, and is not necessarily sociopathic, in the case of ciminality among only chidlren, because dealing with large numbers of people teaches you to deal.

This study has some other interesting ramifications for the discussion:


Parenting style is the single most important factor associated with conduct disorder. For instance, ineffective parenting practices are characterized by a parent who is "often annoyed with child, telling child he/she is bad or not as good as others." Almost two-thirds (63%) of children whose parents very often use this style exhibit conduct disorder. . . .

When all other factors are held constant, the mother’s work status (full-time, part-time, or not in paid workforce) has no significant impact on the occurrence of conduct disorder in children. Similarly, birth to a teenage mother was not significant when other factors such as low income were accounted for; however, conduct disorder was significantly lower among women who were at least 30 when the child was born than among children born to women in their 20s.


Number of parents in household is also significant. A child with a lone parent is twice as likely to have conduct disorder as a child with two parents. And a child with lower socioeconomic status (SES) is twice as likely as a child with higher SES to exhibit conduct disorder, probably because of factors such as opportunities to participate in various activities, and neighbourhood resources including peer groups. SES includes parental education, job status, and income.
Number of siblings also matters. A child with two or more siblings is 2.6 times more likely to exhibit aggressive tendencies than an only child.
http://bctf.ca/publications/ResearchReports.aspx?id=5562

^Now, I don't think this last sentence necessarily contradicts your point if you consider the first study says "later in life". It seems to me that being around a bigger number of other kids means the kid will be more aggressive (like I said, rowdy) as a kid, but will grow up being able to manage conflict better in the end.

Thinkchair
7th April 07, 01:23 PM
Once again, its important not to oversimplify.
The studied indicated that children in daycare may become more aggressive
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2007/mar/07032607.html

Why? I would guess its because they're in close quarters with a large group, which means competition for attention, space, toys, and so on.

I'd bet $1000 that kids with lots of brothers and sisters tend to be more aggressive then those with few or none.

Once again, there can be other factors, such as the food at daycare
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21517318-421,00.html

A -good- daycare can be as good, even better than care at home. Why? Socialization. You're not going to spend your life within the confines of your family, learning how to make friends, yes fight for yourself, compete, get along with different people, and survive socially- these are all skills modern life demands.


But this is what school is for. Starting in nursery school, kids spend the day learning to socialize. Why would they need those extra hours after school to learn more social skills. I agree this is probably an oversimplification. That is why I said I do not base my opinions on social scientific studies or theories. They are predominantly colored by political ideology: whether it is the progressive ideology of "cultural studies" or neo-conservative ideology. Still, I suspect having a close relationship with your parents is rather important in early development. All the skills you listed would be acquired in a typical public school. I used to work in day care. My mother used to run a day care center in a small town. The kids who were in the day care were desperate for parental attention. So many of the kids in day care went on (and not just from my mother's center, but from the other day care centers in town) to have serious behavior problems. And they are all behavior issues that I would label as attention seeking.

Thinkchair
7th April 07, 01:24 PM
So if you have a good parent, they will pick a good daycare for you. Who'da thunk it?

You got your sibling reactions ass-backwards. Most single children I know are crazy. Most people with siblings are moderate and actually know how to share and help others. Is it a rule? Fuck no. Like I said, it depends on a LOT of factors. But having siblings is usually a good thing, unless of course the parents are shit.

I called your wife a stupid bitch for dragging your daughter around everywhere. Does she want to go to the bank? To Safeway? To get her fucking hair done? I think not.


She is not a stupid bitch you fucking prick. She is Thai and Thai mothers carry their kids everywhere. They even strap them on their back when they are cooking.

WarPhalange
7th April 07, 01:40 PM
You guys have NO worries about any intelligent woman even speaking to you for more than 5 minutes, let alone wanting to marry you! GAH!

Pfft, I could have told you that.

WarPhalange
7th April 07, 01:41 PM
She is not a stupid bitch you fucking prick. She is Thai and Thai mothers carry their kids everywhere. They even strap them on their back when they are cooking.
Does the kid want to do that? Strapped to her back for an hour or however long it takes her to cook a meal?

It will be a sad ordeal when the kid's first contact with other children comes when she is 6 years old and gets to 1st grade.

Thinkchair
7th April 07, 01:47 PM
Does the kid want to do that? Strapped to her back for an hour or however long it takes her to cook a meal?

It will be a sad ordeal when the kid's first contact with other children comes when she is 6 years old and gets to 1st grade.

Yes she does want it. But that does not matter. What the child wants is not what is important. It is what is good for the child that counts.

She can play with other children at the playground. She will also gets to play with our friends children (she is too young right now to walk). When she gets older, she will probably follow her mother faithfully around like all the other children we know with Thai mothers. We intend to place her in nursery school at the appropriate age, so 1st grade will not be her introduction to other children.

Shawarma
7th April 07, 01:49 PM
I agree with Loops, actually. Throw kids in with other kids first chance you get. Good for the kids, IMO, and it gets them off your back during the day too.

Kiko
7th April 07, 02:31 PM
And they KNOW it's because you want them off your back. That's why they act out, because kids want their parent(s)' attention and will do what they need to (good or bad) to get that attention.

Since anecdotes have become so popular...
One of my daughter's classmates isn't in daycare. She and her younger sister have a nanny. I didn't realize folks around here had nannies. This little darling is so starved for her parents' attention that she does all sorts of things to get ANYONE to look at her or whatever, including refusal to do her homework. She seems like a bright kid. Her parents are intelligent professionals. Something's not right, however. No amount of extra income, various extra-curricular lessons (ballet, horseback riding, sports, etc.) can make up for .... what, knowing your parents like having you around?

I know in many cases daycare is a necessity. A single parent has little choice. Perhaps even with two parents there's a need - and often the second paycheck is nearly offset by the daycare bill. I just don't get it.

Count me as one of those women, Thinkchair. Your wife is a wise woman and your daughter is fortunate.

polishillusion
7th April 07, 02:45 PM
And they KNOW it's because you want them off your back. That's why they act out, because kids want their parent(s)' attention and will do what they need to (good or bad) to get that attention.

Since anecdotes have become so popular...
One of my daughter's classmates isn't in daycare. She and her younger sister have a nanny. I didn't realize folks around here had nannies. This little darling is so starved for her parents' attention that she does all sorts of things to get ANYONE to look at her or whatever, including refusal to do her homework. She seems like a bright kid. Her parents are intelligent professionals. Something's not right, however. No amount of extra income, various extra-curricular lessons (ballet, horseback riding, sports, etc.) can make up for .... what, knowing your parents like having you around?

I know in many cases daycare is a necessity. A single parent has little choice. Perhaps even with two parents there's a need - and often the second paycheck is nearly offset by the daycare bill. I just don't get it.

Count me as one of those women, Thinkchair. Your wife is a wise woman and your daughter is fortunate.



so, you are saying you aren't the average shitty woman? you should prove it by posting naked pics of yourself online, like that turd before.

can we agree a married woman posting naked pictures online while complaining about her husband's white lies is shitty?

polishillusion
7th April 07, 02:47 PM
Tom Kagan and me talked about his kids once.... no bullshit "Quality time" for an hour a week, but raw "Quantity time" makes it work the right way. i believe that too.

Kiko
7th April 07, 02:48 PM
so, you are saying you aren't the average shitty woman? you should prove it by posting naked pics of yourself online, like that turd before.

can we agree a married woman posting naked pictures online while complaining about her husband's white lies is shitty?
WTF?
Your thread was hijacked. Deal with it!:hijackp:
I have nothing to prove to you, nor would I do it by posting ANY pics of myself for your amusement. You were being trolled and we both know it!

polishillusion
7th April 07, 02:50 PM
oh jeez, you dont get sarcasim or thinking do you?

Kiko
7th April 07, 02:51 PM
Sarcasm. I sure do.

Kiko
7th April 07, 02:52 PM
Neg rep? I'll neg rep you all the way to Binghampton!!

Thinkchair
7th April 07, 04:59 PM
And they KNOW it's because you want them off your back. That's why they act out, because kids want their parent(s)' attention and will do what they need to (good or bad) to get that attention.

Since anecdotes have become so popular...
One of my daughter's classmates isn't in daycare. She and her younger sister have a nanny. I didn't realize folks around here had nannies. This little darling is so starved for her parents' attention that she does all sorts of things to get ANYONE to look at her or whatever, including refusal to do her homework. She seems like a bright kid. Her parents are intelligent professionals. Something's not right, however. No amount of extra income, various extra-curricular lessons (ballet, horseback riding, sports, etc.) can make up for .... what, knowing your parents like having you around?

I know in many cases daycare is a necessity. A single parent has little choice. Perhaps even with two parents there's a need - and often the second paycheck is nearly offset by the daycare bill. I just don't get it.

Count me as one of those women, Thinkchair. Your wife is a wise woman and your daughter is fortunate.

I agree with you completely. I can completely understand that some people simply cannot afford to have one parent stay at home. I just think if you can afford it, or if you are able to sacrifice a few things, the woman should stay with the child. I think you are doing the right thing Kiko. I see the relationship my wife is developing with our daughter, and I would not toss her into day care for the world. We live less well than we could in order to do this. We are not poor. But we could have a second source income if my wife worked. This might afford us some luxery items. I just think it is more important to have my wife stay home.

WarPhalange
7th April 07, 05:21 PM
Bullshit. If the kid makes friends in daycare, it won't give a shit about the parents anymore. It WANTS to go there to see his or her FRIENDS. You can see mom and dad every day when you get home.

If the kid starts acting out because it doesn't go EVERYWHERE with mom, then you have a problem on your hands.

Or fuck, how hard is it to say "Yeah, mommy has to go to work so we have something to eat. But I'll be back later today."

If the kid doesn't understand that, you have a problem. Kids need to get used to not being with their parents. The age at which this happens is debatable and probably varies from kid to kid, but for God's sake, you NEED to cut the cord sooner or later. I knew a kid who had his mom walk him to school every day. He was 7. This was in Poland, too, where walking to school or taking the bus by yourself is a very normal thing, and kids go to school in packs and not alone.

My brother went to daycare too. My mom didn't work at the time, though. He LOVED IT. Because why bother spending time with your mom who does cooking and cleaning while you watch the same old cartoons when you can hang out with your friends?

ironlurker
7th April 07, 05:25 PM
for God's sake, you NEED to cut the cord sooner or later. I knew a kid who had his mom walk him to school every day. He was 7. This was in Poland, too, where walking to school or taking the bus by yourself is a very normal thing, and kids go to school in packs and not alone.

I have a friend from Indonesia whose brother breast-fed until he was 11 a la The Last Emperor

WarPhalange
7th April 07, 05:38 PM
My head hurts.

DAYoung
7th April 07, 05:49 PM
Marriage.

Meh.

The anachronistic property contract is a red herring.

We should be talking about quality relationships (with loers and children).

Mr. Jones
7th April 07, 06:05 PM
Did thinkchair just admit that he has a mail order wife and is mad because someone is giving him shit about it?

AAAhmed46
7th April 07, 06:16 PM
She is not a stupid bitch you fucking prick. She is Thai and Thai mothers carry their kids everywhere. They even strap them on their back when they are cooking.


Does she do muay thai?

Thinkchair
7th April 07, 06:17 PM
Did thinkchair just admit that he has a mail order wife and is mad because someone is giving him shit about it?

No. My wife is not a mail order wife (or a prostitute). Just because she is Thai that does not make her mail order.

Shawarma
7th April 07, 06:22 PM
Does she do muay thai?
Naturally. Like all Thai women found outside of Thailand, his wife does muay thai and arrived by mail order. She also used to be a man, like all Thai women.

Feeling excited yet?

DAYoung
7th April 07, 06:28 PM
Did thinkchair just admit that he has a mail order wife and is mad because someone is giving him shit about it?

When did you become a cheap troll?

Mr. Jones
7th April 07, 06:37 PM
When I became disillusioned with the world and became a nihilist.

DAYoung
7th April 07, 06:54 PM
Ah. I see.

I prescribe three ounces of Sartre, and a dash of Seneca.

If pain persists, see your Dr. Kazantzakis.

billy sol hurok
7th April 07, 07:08 PM
I prescribe three ounces of Epictitus, and a large dollop of Bach.

If pain persists, see your Dr. Kevorkian.
fxtkthxbye

DAYoung
7th April 07, 07:17 PM
fxtkthxbye

Your invoice is in the mail.

AAAhmed46
7th April 07, 07:21 PM
I agree with ThinkChair in the fact that if a woman(or even a man) wants to stay at home with the kids, then they should not be looked down upon to want to have such a hands on role in raising a family.

But at the same time, to say that a woman who wants to seek her career is selfish, i have to disagree with,at that point it should be a shared responsibility between parents.

The same goes for men however, if a guy wants to stay home, let him.

WarPhalange
7th April 07, 07:38 PM
That's essentially my point, although I admit it came off as meaning "if she stays home, she's bad".

There's plenty of reason why someone would want to have a career after the kid can feed itself. I mean, why don't you stay home while she goes to work?

Now, the reason I said she is bad, is because "she would never think of putting the kid in a daycare so she could find a job". What the fuck is that?

I can't think of any time in my life where I wanted to spend 10 hours a day with the same person for days on end. Why would a kid want to? Why should s/he if it's not going to happen later in life?

It's not going to seem as if you're dumping her off to get rid of her if when you both come back you are happy to see her and still want to do stuff like get some ice cream or watch cartoons together.

It's QUALITY time, not QUANTITY time.

DAYoung
7th April 07, 07:51 PM
As much as people might want this to be the case, there aren't any nice universal rules to adhere to.

Some kids develop a keen sense of independence, and flourish without their parents - they learn new skills around peers, and develop close and reciprocal bonds with other kids.

Some kids are more dependent, but flourish around their parents - perhaps they get more one-on-one attention, or more attention of a particular kind (e.g. more knowledge of their personal quirks - the stuff than can get lost at day care).

The problem on each side is that they see the other side as blithely unaware of these things - career mothers unthinkingly throw their kids into disease-ridden child-Gulags, while stay-at-home mothers are stifling control-freaks breeding rooftop-shooters.

But each of these is a caricature. The important thing about parenting isn't following a set of universal rules, but being attentive to the specific needs of your child, the likely outcomes (informed by family experience or research), and foreknowledge of the likely impact on yourself and your spouse (e.g. it's not always good for the child to have a 'perfect' life, with parents who hate each other because of the sacrifices they've made).

In short: the important thing is to be good parents, not good little rule-following automatons.

WarPhalange
7th April 07, 08:00 PM
So if you have a good parent, they will pick a good daycare for you. Who'da thunk it?

Man I kick ass.

Mr. Jones
7th April 07, 08:01 PM
Thats why I marry women from outside of America. My first wife was Lebanese, and my second is Thai. Much easier to deal with than American women.

Even though Poop Loops was being mean when he called your wife a stupid FOB bitch he's absolutely right. I feel sorry for these women who marry sorry motherfuckers like yourself who can't even handle a real woman. They have to get some bitch straight out of Thailand or Vietnam because American woman won't put up with their sorry ass.

You know what I don't give a damn about your wife not putting your daughter in daycare because I know that's the least of the fucked up things she possibly does because she's from somewhere else where women are treated as slaves to their husbands.

Nevermind Thinkchair it's good you found someone who knows that their place is at home and in the kitchen.

WarPhalange
7th April 07, 08:09 PM
I'm not saying that all foreign women are somehow more submissive or whatever than American women, I'm condemning ALL women who are submissive like that and live for their husband and kids, but not themselves.

Thinkchair
7th April 07, 08:25 PM
Even though Poop Loops was being mean when he called your wife a stupid FOB bitch he's absolutely right. I feel sorry for these women who marry sorry motherfuckers like yourself who can't even handle a real woman. They have to get some bitch straight out of Thailand or Vietnam because American woman won't put up with their sorry ass.

You know what I don't give a damn about your wife not putting your daughter in daycare because I know that's the least of the fucked up things she possibly does because she's from somewhere else where women are treated as slaves to their husbands.

Nevermind Thinkchair it's good you found someone who knows that their place is at home and in the kitchen.

Women are not treated like slaves in Thailand. There are American women that are just as traditional. It has nothing to do with being unable to handle an "independant american woman". I just do not see the point in marrying someone who does not share the same values as me. My parents were very family focused, and that is how I intend to bring my children up. I have date American women. Some of them were nice, some were a little too wild for my tastes. They run the sprectrum just like any other women. I just happened to meet my wife because of the job I had at the time. I did not go seeking her out. I used to spend a fair amount of time travelling in my job and had the opportunity to meet a number of foreign women. I appreciate that you think I am one of these guys who trolls thai restaurants or travels to Asian countries looking for submissive women. I hate these guys. My wife had to put up with them constantly when she worked in a Thai restaurant in America. Don't make assumptions about me or my wife. I hate those guys just as much as you do, because I know they will probably be preying on my daughter when she gets older. I realize there are guys who see asian women as sexually submissive toys. I am just not one of those guys. My wife and I get along because we respect one another. Just because I prefer my wife to stay home with my child does not mean I boss her around, or am a domineering husband. We both prefered the arrangment of having a mother stay with the baby at home prior to getting married. I would not have forced this on her. She wields just as much power in the relationship as I do. I know it is hard for you to understand. But there are people out there who simply prefer more traditional family arrangements. Despite what you may think it has nothing to do with wanting to control, or power. It simply has to do with preference because of how one is raised. Poop Loops obviously is not going to marry a woman who stays at home with the kid. I could give a shit what he does personally.

Thinkchair
7th April 07, 08:40 PM
I'm not saying that all foreign women are somehow more submissive or whatever than American women, I'm condemning ALL women who are submissive like that and live for their husband and kids, but not themselves.

I got news for you. I dont live for myself either. I work so my wife and kid can have nice things. When you have a baby, you don't really think of it as 'your career' anymore.

WarPhalange
7th April 07, 08:55 PM
One of my beefs is "tradition for the sake of tradition".

Bleah.

Thinkchair
7th April 07, 10:08 PM
One of my beefs is "tradition for the sake of tradition".

Bleah.

Okay. Why?

WarPhalange
7th April 07, 10:39 PM
Okay. Why?

Exactly.

Tradition for the sake of tradition is empty, it doesn't have any substance. Doesn't have any "why" to it.

Let's say it raised you alright. You're not a druggie, not a felon, etc. decent life overall. But did you stop to think why? Maybe there is a way to make it better? Maybe now that times have changed, something else is needed? Even if it turns out that the way you were raised is the best way, you now have some assurance of it and know exactly why it worked, meaning that if it were applicable, you could use the same methods for similar problems, i.e. the same problems have the same solutions (Feynmann FTW!).

Thinkchair
7th April 07, 11:15 PM
Exactly.

Tradition for the sake of tradition is empty, it doesn't have any substance. Doesn't have any "why" to it.

Let's say it raised you alright. You're not a druggie, not a felon, etc. decent life overall. But did you stop to think why? Maybe there is a way to make it better? Maybe now that times have changed, something else is needed? Even if it turns out that the way you were raised is the best way, you now have some assurance of it and know exactly why it worked, meaning that if it were applicable, you could use the same methods for similar problems, i.e. the same problems have the same solutions (Feynmann FTW!).

My beef is progression for the sake of progression.

Tradition is valuable because we know what to expect from it and that it is reliable. I don't expect you to agree. Go do what you want.

WarPhalange
7th April 07, 11:22 PM
My beef is progression for the sake of progression.

Yes, I can see how moving towards better ways of doing things can be a horrible thing.

Seriously, have your wife kick you in the balls. We don't need any more of you running around.

Thinkchair
7th April 07, 11:37 PM
Yes, I can see how moving towards better ways of doing things can be a horrible thing.

Seriously, have your wife kick you in the balls. We don't need any more of you running around.

you are missing the point entirely. If you had any reading comprehension at all you would understand that my position is a moderate one. Look do whatever the fuck you want man. I really don't care if you live or die. How do you know that your way is moving toward something better. You already know the traditional method works. Because we have been doing it forever. But all with have to support your position is theory and some highly biased social scientific research.

Yes it would be awful if there were more men like me who loved their children and focused on family. We really need more irresponsible pointless people like you to raise the next generation.

Thinkchair
7th April 07, 11:38 PM
Yes, I can see how moving towards better ways of doing things can be a horrible thing.

Seriously, have your wife kick you in the balls. We don't need any more of you running around.

Just because you call it "progressive" that does not automatically make it better.

DAYoung
7th April 07, 11:40 PM
'Family vs. work'

'Tradition vs. progression'

Groan.

Mr. Jones
8th April 07, 12:28 AM
Women are not treated like slaves in Thailand. There are American women that are just as traditional. It has nothing to do with being unable to handle an "independant american woman". I just do not see the point in marrying someone who does not share the same values as me. My parents were very family focused, and that is how I intend to bring my children up. I have date American women. Some of them were nice, some were a little too wild for my tastes. They run the sprectrum just like any other women. I just happened to meet my wife because of the job I had at the time. I did not go seeking her out. I used to spend a fair amount of time travelling in my job and had the opportunity to meet a number of foreign women. I appreciate that you think I am one of these guys who trolls thai restaurants or travels to Asian countries looking for submissive women. I hate these guys. My wife had to put up with them constantly when she worked in a Thai restaurant in America. Don't make assumptions about me or my wife. I hate those guys just as much as you do, because I know they will probably be preying on my daughter when she gets older. I realize there are guys who see asian women as sexually submissive toys. I am just not one of those guys. My wife and I get along because we respect one another. Just because I prefer my wife to stay home with my child does not mean I boss her around, or am a domineering husband. We both prefered the arrangment of having a mother stay with the baby at home prior to getting married. I would not have forced this on her. She wields just as much power in the relationship as I do. I know it is hard for you to understand. But there are people out there who simply prefer more traditional family arrangements. Despite what you may think it has nothing to do with wanting to control, or power. It simply has to do with preference because of how one is raised. Poop Loops obviously is not going to marry a woman who stays at home with the kid. I could give a shit what he does personally.

Even though this is the internet. Paragraphs are still important.

WarPhalange
8th April 07, 12:44 AM
you are missing the point entirely. If you had any reading comprehension at all you would understand that my position is a moderate one. Look do whatever the fuck you want man. I really don't care if you live or die. How do you know that your way is moving toward something better. You already know the traditional method works. Because we have been doing it forever. But all with have to support your position is theory and some highly biased social scientific research.

Are you some kind of idiot? Read up on how kids were raised a few thousand years ago, then a few hundred years ago, then in the 50's. It's all moving to suite the times.

"Changes aren't permanent, but change is." -- Rush

There is absolutely no reason to believe that the way you were raised will work with your kids. I even said that in the post you are replying to.


Yes it would be awful if there were more men like me who loved their children and focused on family. We really need more irresponsible pointless people like you to raise the next generation.

Jim Jones loved his children and focused on the family.

I'm smart but lazy. You seem to be dumb, but ambitious.

"Men are basically smart or dumb and lazy or ambitious. The dumb and ambitious ones are dangerous and I get rid of them. The dumb and lazy ones I give mundane duties. The smart ambitious ones I put on my staff. The smart and lazy ones I make my commanders"

Erwin Rommel.

WarPhalange
8th April 07, 12:46 AM
Just because you call it "progressive" that does not automatically make it better.
pro·gres·sive http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pnghttp://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fbrowse%2 Fprogressive) /prəˈgrɛshttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngɪv/ Pronunciation Key (http://www.sociocide.com/forums/) - Show Spelled Pronunciation (http://www.sociocide.com/forums/)[pruh-gres-iv] Pronunciation Key (http://www.sociocide.com/forums/) - Show IPA Pronunciation (http://www.sociocide.com/forums/) –adjective

1.favoring or advocating progress, change, improvement, or reform, as opposed to wishing to maintain things as they are, esp. in political matters: a progressive mayor.

2.making progress toward better conditions; employing or advocating more enlightened or liberal ideas, new or experimental methods, etc.: a progressive community.

3.characterized by such progress, or by continuous improvement.

So basically, I don't call it progression unless it is better. You know, the definition of the word.

Mr. Jones
8th April 07, 12:53 AM
Who the hell is thinkchair in the first place?

DAYoung
8th April 07, 01:07 AM
So basically, I don't call it progression unless it is better. You know, the definition of the word.

Sure. But you'd admit that 1. and 2. can be contradictory in some circumstances...?

WarPhalange
8th April 07, 01:15 AM
Yeah. That's the problem with English, and with dictionaries: multiple meanings for one word.

I use "progress" as a word for improvement. When you want to fix the sink and you end up exploding the garage, that's not progress.

DAYoung
8th April 07, 01:20 AM
...unless the explosion produces a compound that cures cancer, improves literacy and makes a good Australian sitcom.

Thinkchair
8th April 07, 07:10 AM
Are you some kind of idiot? Read up on how kids were raised a few thousand years ago, then a few hundred years ago, then in the 50's. It's all moving to suite the times.

"Changes aren't permanent, but change is." -- Rush

There is absolutely no reason to believe that the way you were raised will work with your kids. I even said that in the post you are replying to.



Jim Jones loved his children and focused on the family.

I'm smart but lazy. You seem to be dumb, but ambitious.

"Men are basically smart or dumb and lazy or ambitious. The dumb and ambitious ones are dangerous and I get rid of them. The dumb and lazy ones I give mundane duties. The smart ambitious ones I put on my staff. The smart and lazy ones I make my commanders"

Erwin Rommel.

Rush. That is pretty deep. I think I am more familiar with the history of the family than you are. I don't deny there has been change. The one thing that has been constant is the mother staying home and taking care of the kids.

Anyways enough with the stupid flame war.

Thinkchair
8th April 07, 07:12 AM
pro·gres·sive http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pnghttp://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fbrowse%2 Fprogressive) /prəˈgrɛshttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngɪv/ Pronunciation Key (http://www.sociocide.com/forums/) - Show Spelled Pronunciation (http://www.sociocide.com/forums/)[pruh-gres-iv] Pronunciation Key (http://www.sociocide.com/forums/) - Show IPA Pronunciation (http://www.sociocide.com/forums/) –adjective

1.favoring or advocating progress, change, improvement, or reform, as opposed to wishing to maintain things as they are, esp. in political matters: a progressive mayor.

2.making progress toward better conditions; employing or advocating more enlightened or liberal ideas, new or experimental methods, etc.: a progressive community.

3.characterized by such progress, or by continuous improvement.

So basically, I don't call it progression unless it is better. You know, the definition of the word.

We are talking about progressive ideologies. Your a fucking idiot.

polishillusion
8th April 07, 10:43 AM
'Family vs. work'

'Tradition vs. progression'

Groan.

This won the thread for me. I hate it when I lose sight of "my opinion" or "my goal in life" when discussing these things. This is just going to turn into a fight of "Your an idiot, LOL!!!111!!!" and "No, Im not, retad!)!)!)!)!"

Go own the beliefs that make you happy. I am going to look for a traditional, "wifely girl" no matter what anyone tells me.

Also, I still do not see how my beliefs as a 21 year old have that much effect on "married men" like Thinkchair, or a older woman like Kiko; or Poop Loops telling a supposedly happy, well served and maintained married man ANYTHING about marriage and getting anything other then a light chuckle in return.......... makes me wonder about the authenticity of the claims he puts forth.

Think about it, use other well off parents you have seen in life as an example. I stick my father in Thinkchairs situation, and all my dad would do is laugh and laugh because he caught a fresh piece of FOB ass that stayed at home and raised his kids right, and THEN she had the audacity to go to college and get a higher degree then him! How dare she!!!! I mean, my mother is a brilliant woman and my father was well aware of that the majority of his life, and would not argue to the intranets about it.

K Thnx Bai Mom

WarPhalange
8th April 07, 10:54 AM
Your a fucking idiot.

Clearly.

Kiko
8th April 07, 11:55 AM
Oh, I think I know what you young guys want from the women you think will marry you! Here's your PROGRESSION...
6380

WarPhalange
8th April 07, 12:27 PM
I find it amazing that you are siding with Thinkchair and not me, seeing as how he is essentially saying what is in that "thing's" article and I'm saying it's wrong.

polishillusion
8th April 07, 02:51 PM
that thing was on the nomarriage.com site too, but it was confirmed a hoax by something awful forums or something of that sort.

Kiko
8th April 07, 03:35 PM
That 'article' whether a joke/hoax or not was similar to how some men and women expected life to be back then. It's not how I'm suggesting that things ought to be at all. Part old time sitcom and part psychologist's nightmare, really.

I am sure many women (and men) find deep satisfaction in their careers. However, many more will find stresses far outweighing the benefits that are monetary or for their egos. I for one, would much rather know that the lives I brought into this world have whatever security, guidance, nurturing, stability and other positive influences I can give. Perhaps it's part of the accountability thing.

Interesting how there's such an outcry about taking personal responsibility for one's weight but not for the rearing of one's children.

polishillusion
8th April 07, 04:10 PM
A professor I am taking now keeps telling us that people should go to jail for their 12-13 year olds crimes, and I agree with him.

There is little to no "accountability" for what people teach "their children" (and i use the term loosely, since they have done jack shit in raising them). I definitely can see that is there is massive amounts of terrible things in peoples lives, holding some people accountable may be difficult to do, especially if it is multi generational problem, but you have more and more "fuck ups" coming from lazy, financially and mentally able people then ever before.

Example - In Long Island there was a string of "fence bashers", a group of richer white kids who would smoke up and find it hilarious to ram head first into other peoples fence, about 6 months ago. They taped themselves destroying hundreds of dollars of peoples fences for months. The cops found the tapes. These kids were 16 and 17 year olds.

Where the FUCK were the parents? I would have liked it better if the parents were around to actually take care of their kids rather then the kids ramming their heads in fences all night.

DAYoung
8th April 07, 04:15 PM
I don't want to just be a good father. I want to be a good man. Being a good father, husband, friend and colleague is all part of this.

Shawarma
8th April 07, 04:19 PM
A post of excellence.

WarPhalange
8th April 07, 04:52 PM
That 'article' whether a joke/hoax or not was similar to how some men and women expected life to be back then. It's not how I'm suggesting that things ought to be at all. Part old time sitcom and part psychologist's nightmare, really.

I am sure many women (and men) find deep satisfaction in their careers. However, many more will find stresses far outweighing the benefits that are monetary or for their egos. I for one, would much rather know that the lives I brought into this world have whatever security, guidance, nurturing, stability and other positive influences I can give. Perhaps it's part of the accountability thing.

Interesting how there's such an outcry about taking personal responsibility for one's weight but not for the rearing of one's children.

I know you were joking, that's my whole point. Ugh... forget it. I don't think we'll resolve this.

A career is different than a job. I don't expect anybody to run to their local McDonald's to apply for a job and love coming in every day. But if someone had some significant standing in a corporation or whatever or enjoyed their job, why shouldn't they want to go back? It's like saying you need to stop doing a hobby once the kid is born because bleah.

Also, nobody is saying to dump the kids. Why would you think that? If you can't handle raising a kid and going to work, then yeah, it's more important to stay home and raise the kid properly. I just don't understand why someone should drop everything after the kid is born and never pick up your life, even though the kid will not be a permanent addition to your life. Sooner or later they become teenagers and then adults.

DAYoung
8th April 07, 05:01 PM
Kiko, the word 'vocation' is a significant one here - as you know, it's the same word used by priests and ministers to express their devotion to a life-long career (literally 'calling'). For many, their vocation is indeed a calling - it's a way of life that calls you, not simply a way to make a buck. Following this call is often a wonderful way to develop your character, and contribute to the world (including the development of your children).

bob
8th April 07, 05:30 PM
Ok, without getting into the trolling and counter trolling going on here I'm going to wade into the child care debate.

Our son just started child care three days a week (aged 12 months). We hated doing it at first but it was a necessity. Funnily enough, I think it was one of the best things we could have done for him.

In only about six weeks, his ability to interact with other kids has progressed from the level of: 'run up and pull their hair because they're an interesting looking toy' to actually playing games with other children, sharing toys and learning he doesn't have to beat them up to have fun with them. I guess you have to have had a toddler to understand this is a pretty big leap. It's also apparent that he learns a lot from observing the older kids and joining in with their games.

On the other hand, you see plenty of little monsters who've spent their whole lives being the centre of their parents' universe and who resent any kind of interference to their sovereignty.

Of course we were lucky enough to find an excellent child care centre. I'm sure there are plenty of bad ones around. Just as I'm sure there are plenty of parents whose kids don't go to childcare but learn to interact with other children on a daily basis in other venues (cousins, siblings, play groups etc.).

It's natural for kids to grow up surrounded by other kids. It's how humans have developed for millenia.

DAYoung
8th April 07, 05:56 PM
On the other hand, you see plenty of little monsters who've spent their whole lives being the centre of their parents' universe and who resent any kind of interference to their sovereignty.

I like the sounds of this.

BREEDING THE UBERMENSCHEN OF THE FUTURE.

bob
8th April 07, 06:02 PM
Just as an aside: to those of you who believe that it's always best for kids to be looked after at home all the time, why is it necessary that this is done by the mother? Once breastfeeding stops, there's no reason at all why a father can't be at home while the mother works.

polishillusion
8th April 07, 06:06 PM
Because women inherently cook and clean better, its biologically and philosophically proven 100% better.

Plus, daddy has to feel like a man and shit.

Mr. Jones
8th April 07, 06:20 PM
A professor I am taking now keeps telling us that people should go to jail for their 12-13 year olds crimes, and I agree with him.


I think too many people blame parents for their kids upbringing. My mother has eight brothers and sisters and they all turned out different under the same parents.

My brother used to beat the shit out of his now ex wife. I'm no saint but I can't imagine myself being a wife beater.

Let's take 13 year old Mr. Jones as an example. If Mr. Jones went berserk and came to school one day and killed everybody would my parents who took me to therapists and psychiatrists making sure i had the best mental health treatment be held responsible for my actions?

Mr. Jones
8th April 07, 06:21 PM
Because women inherently cook and clean better, its biologically and philosophically proven 100% better.

Plus, daddy has to feel like a man and shit.

Bullshit all the best chef's in the world are men. My uncle who has OCD cleans better than any damn woman.

Mr. Jones
8th April 07, 06:26 PM
Wait a minute why the hell did I let any of those motherfuckers live? They're lucky they considered me a psychopath but still considered me cool.

Thinkchair
8th April 07, 06:37 PM
I find it amazing that you are siding with Thinkchair and not me, seeing as how he is essentially saying what is in that "thing's" article and I'm saying it's wrong.

I am not saying anything of the sort. I am saying people should do what they want and marry someone who is suited to their own style. I am happy with a woman who prefers to do traditionally feminine things (raise children, cook etc). I do not want someone who "knows her place". I realize there are women out there who would rather have a career, and what they do is none of my business. I am not arguing people shouldn't have the option of being 'progressive'. Where you do seem to be arguing that people should not be free to be 'conservative'.

Mr. Jones
8th April 07, 06:39 PM
You can say you're just being conservative think chair but to everyone else you're just a sorry motherfucker.

Mr. Jones
8th April 07, 06:41 PM
Women are not treated like slaves in Thailand. There are American women that are just as traditional. It has nothing to do with being unable to handle an "independant american woman". I just do not see the point in marrying someone who does not share the same values as me. My parents were very family focused, and that is how I intend to bring my children up. I have date American women. Some of them were nice, some were a little too wild for my tastes. They run the sprectrum just like any other women. I just happened to meet my wife because of the job I had at the time. I did not go seeking her out. I used to spend a fair amount of time travelling in my job and had the opportunity to meet a number of foreign women. I appreciate that you think I am one of these guys who trolls thai restaurants or travels to Asian countries looking for submissive women. I hate these guys. My wife had to put up with them constantly when she worked in a Thai restaurant in America. Don't make assumptions about me or my wife. I hate those guys just as much as you do, because I know they will probably be preying on my daughter when she gets older. I realize there are guys who see asian women as sexually submissive toys. I am just not one of those guys. My wife and I get along because we respect one another. Just because I prefer my wife to stay home with my child does not mean I boss her around, or am a domineering husband. We both prefered the arrangment of having a mother stay with the baby at home prior to getting married. I would not have forced this on her. She wields just as much power in the relationship as I do. I know it is hard for you to understand. But there are people out there who simply prefer more traditional family arrangements. Despite what you may think it has nothing to do with wanting to control, or power. It simply has to do with preference because of how one is raised. Poop Loops obviously is not going to marry a woman who stays at home with the kid. I could give a shit what he does personally.

Seriously what the fuck is he saying it's like a giant wall of bullshit. How the fuck did he pass English 101?

Thinkchair
8th April 07, 06:42 PM
Just as an aside: to those of you who believe that it's always best for kids to be looked after at home all the time, why is it necessary that this is done by the mother? Once breastfeeding stops, there's no reason at all why a father can't be at home while the mother works.

In my experience women are more attentive to their children's needs than men. They just seem to have more of a knack for it.

Thinkchair
8th April 07, 06:44 PM
Seriously what the fuck is he saying it's like a giant wall of bullshit. How the fuck did he pass English 101?

I am sorry if my internet writing style is not professional enough for you. Though I do write professionally for a living. Anyone with basic reading comprehension should be able to understand my main points. I am writing very quickly, and responding to people's arguments as they come to me. If it bothers you don't read my fucking posts.

Mr. Jones
8th April 07, 06:47 PM
That's exactly right thnkchair it's impossible for women to treat children like shit. I went to this family barbeque a couple of years ago.

I was sitting there socializing with my relatives and I notice this fat black woman babysitting these 4 or 5 kids. Anyway later on during the day she buys a snow cone for herself and eats it in front of the kids.

That is totally assholish. That fat bitch could have bought a snowcone for the rest of the kids. Or at least wait till she was through babysitting if she was that godamn cheap.

DAYoung
8th April 07, 06:48 PM
In my experience women are more attentive to their children's needs than men. They just seem to have more of a knack for it.

But you grant that your experience isn't authoritative, I'm sure.

Mr. Jones
8th April 07, 06:50 PM
I am sorry if my internet writing style is not professional enough for you. Though I do write professionally for a living. Anyone with basic reading comprehension should be able to understand my main points. I am writing very quickly, and responding to people's arguments as they come to me. If it bothers you don't read my fucking posts.

Any professional writer should understand no one in their right mind would read a giant wall of text. Don't you know how to use paragraphs?
If you're on the internet you can at least make the time to use paragraphs if you're writing something so long.

Thinkchair
8th April 07, 06:51 PM
But you grant that your experience isn't authoritative, I'm sure.

No. I have seen a number of studies that support both positions. The conclusions of these studies almost always happen to be in line with the researchers politics. So I think seeking any kind of authorities on this subject would be a fruitless pursuit. I do suspect that women are physiologically more predisposed to nurturing behavior. Though I agree this is just an educated guess.

Mr. Jones
8th April 07, 06:54 PM
No. I have seen a number of studies that support both positions. The conclusions of these studies almost always happen to be in line with the researchers politics. So I think seeking any kind of authorities on this subject would be a fruitless pursuit. I do suspect that women are physiologically more predisposed to nurturing behavior. Though I agree this is just an educated guess.

Didn't I just call you on your bullshit a moment ago? Besides this there are lots of men who are better with kids than woman. Just because you're a woman doesn't make you a good nurturer.


That's exactly right thnkchair it's impossible for women to treat children like shit. I went to this family barbeque a couple of years ago.

I was sitting there socializing with my relatives and I notice this fat black woman babysitting these 4 or 5 kids. Anyway later on during the day she buys a snow cone for herself and eats it in front of the kids.

That is totally assholish. That fat bitch could have bought a snowcone for the rest of the kids. Or at least wait till she was through babysitting if she was that godamn cheap.

Thinkchair
8th April 07, 06:54 PM
Any professional writer should understand no one in their right mind would read a giant wall of text. Don't you know how to use paragraphs?
If you're on the internet you can at least make the time to use paragraphs if you're writing something so long.

Why? I am in the middle of a number of things when I write most of these messages. I understan the need for paragraphs in professional writing. On the net, anything goes. You want to use paragraphs, then use them. You don't want to be confused by a wall of text, then ignore my posts. I simply don't respect you enough to accomodate you. Anyways, I reviewed the 'wall of text' that caused you to complain. I don't really see what is so difficult to understand about it. Its a little sloppy, and I am obviously developing thoughts as I write. But so what?

Thinkchair
8th April 07, 06:55 PM
Didn't I just call you on your bullshit a moment ago? Besides this there are lots of men who are better with kids than woman. Just because you're a woman doesn't make you a good naturer.

I don't recall you doing so. You must have done a very bad job of it then. What, did you google a study that supported your position? The studies on this subject are all over the map, and in my opinion, ideologically driven.

I disagree.

Oh. I just noticed the post you were referring to. Finding one woman who mistreats her children is meaningless. There are always going to be exceptions. My point is that women are generally going to be better nurturers than men. This matches my experience of the world. Perhaps it does not match yours. I agreed with Day that my observation is not authoritative.

Mr. Jones
8th April 07, 06:58 PM
Why? I am in the middle of a number of things when I write most of these messages. I understan the need for paragraphs in professional writing. On the net, anything goes. You want to use paragraphs, then use them. You don't want to be confused by a wall of text, then ignore my posts. I simply don't respect you enough to accomodate you. Anyways, I reviewed the 'wall of text' that caused you to complain. I don't really see what is so difficult to understand about it. Its a little sloppy, and I am obviously developing thoughts as I write. But so what?

Women are not treated like slaves in Thailand. There are American women that are just as traditional. It has nothing to do with being unable to handle an "independant american woman". I just do not see the point in marrying someone who does not share the same values as me. My parents were very family focused, and that is how I intend to bring my children up. I have date American women. Some of them were nice, some were a little too wild for my tastes. They run the sprectrum just like any other women. I just happened to meet my wife because of the job I had at the time. I did not go seeking her out. I used to spend a fair amount of time travelling in my job and had the opportunity to meet a number of foreign women. I appreciate that you think I am one of these guys who trolls thai restaurants or travels to Asian countries looking for submissive women. I hate these guys. My wife had to put up with them constantly when she worked in a Thai restaurant in America. Don't make assumptions about me or my wife. I hate those guys just as much as you do, because I know they will probably be preying on my daughter when she gets older. I realize there are guys who see asian women as sexually submissive toys. I am just not one of those guys. My wife and I get along because we respect one another. Just because I prefer my wife to stay home with my child does not mean I boss her around, or am a domineering husband. We both prefered the arrangment of having a mother stay with the baby at home prior to getting married. I would not have forced this on her. She wields just as much power in the relationship as I do. I know it is hard for you to understand. But there are people out there who simply prefer more traditional family arrangements. Despite what you may think it has nothing to do with wanting to control, or power. It simply has to do with preference because of how one is raised. Poop Loops obviously is not going to marry a woman who stays at home with the kid. I could give a shit what he does personally.

Thinkchair
8th April 07, 07:04 PM
Women are not treated like slaves in Thailand. There are American women that are just as traditional. It has nothing to do with being unable to handle an "independant american woman". I just do not see the point in marrying someone who does not share the same values as me. My parents were very family focused, and that is how I intend to bring my children up. I have date American women. Some of them were nice, some were a little too wild for my tastes. They run the sprectrum just like any other women. I just happened to meet my wife because of the job I had at the time. I did not go seeking her out. I used to spend a fair amount of time travelling in my job and had the opportunity to meet a number of foreign women. I appreciate that you think I am one of these guys who trolls thai restaurants or travels to Asian countries looking for submissive women. I hate these guys. My wife had to put up with them constantly when she worked in a Thai restaurant in America. Don't make assumptions about me or my wife. I hate those guys just as much as you do, because I know they will probably be preying on my daughter when she gets older. I realize there are guys who see asian women as sexually submissive toys. I am just not one of those guys. My wife and I get along because we respect one another. Just because I prefer my wife to stay home with my child does not mean I boss her around, or am a domineering husband. We both prefered the arrangment of having a mother stay with the baby at home prior to getting married. I would not have forced this on her. She wields just as much power in the relationship as I do. I know it is hard for you to understand. But there are people out there who simply prefer more traditional family arrangements. Despite what you may think it has nothing to do with wanting to control, or power. It simply has to do with preference because of how one is raised. Poop Loops obviously is not going to marry a woman who stays at home with the kid. I could give a shit what he does personally.

Like I said. You dont like it, then don't read it. If you can't extract my arguments from this, then I don't know what to say.

Great job getting sidetracked on writing style though.

polishillusion
8th April 07, 07:08 PM
Thinkchair, do you realize that you in a way destroy your own arguments, like a 10 year old would?

It is like someone telling you " You did drugs last night!"

and you screaming " FUCK! I did not do any drugs last night! I was being good last night!"

meaning that you do drugs in general. I mean, it sounds like that every time you speak.

Mr. Jones
8th April 07, 07:16 PM
Like I said. You dont like it, then don't read it. If you can't extract my arguments from this, then I don't know what to say.


Desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desuDesu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu

Women are not treated like slaves in Thailand. There are American women that are just as traditional. It has nothing to do with being unable to handle an "independant american woman". I just do not see the point in marrying someone who does not share the same values as me. My parents were very family focused, and that is how I intend to bring my children up. I have date American women. Some of them were nice, some were a little too wild for my tastes. They run the sprectrum just like any other women. I just happened to meet my wife because of the job I had at the time. I did not go seeking her out. I used to spend a fair amount of time travelling in my job and had the opportunity to meet a number of foreign women. I appreciate that you think I am one of these guys who trolls thai restaurants or travels to Asian countries looking for submissive women. I hate these guys. My wife had to put up with them constantly when she worked in a Thai restaurant in America. Don't make assumptions about me or my wife. I hate those guys just as much as you do, because I know they will probably be preying on my daughter when she gets older. I realize there are guys who see asian women as sexually submissive toys. I am just not one of those guys. My wife and I get along because we respect one another. Just because I prefer my wife to stay home with my child does not mean I boss her around, or am a domineering husband. We both prefered the arrangment of having a mother stay with the baby at home prior to getting married. I would not have forced this on her. She wields just as much power in the relationship as I do. I know it is hard for you to understand. But there are people out there who simply prefer more traditional family arrangements. Despite what you may think it has nothing to do with wanting to control, or power. It simply has to do with preference because of how one is raised. Poop Loops obviously is not going to marry a woman who stays at home with the kid. I could give a shit what he does personally

WarPhalange
8th April 07, 07:17 PM
Soo desu ne.

Kiko
8th April 07, 07:21 PM
Vocation. Thank you. I suppose I should sort of know that word by now.

I don't think that all hobbies and goals need to be forgotten when children are born, BUT... their needs are often reason enough to put secondary parental needs on the back burner for a bit. As an aside, I'm also one of those who prefers hobbies and interests to be separate from work. Doing something I love isn't as much fun when someone else is telling me how/when/why to do it for me.

I'd also suggest that this thread include a poll. Check one please,
__ I have children and send them to daycare
__ I have children and do not send them to daycare
__ I don't have children but would send them to daycare
__ I don't have children and would not send them to daycare

Just for the hell of it, right?

Kiko
8th April 07, 07:22 PM
I should have added another choice...
Which poster on this thread would you send to daycare?
*facepalm*

Shawarma
8th April 07, 07:33 PM
Seems to me that Loops and Chair are totally talking past each other.

DAYoung
8th April 07, 07:41 PM
I'd also suggest that this thread include a poll. Check one please,
__ I have children and send them to daycare
__ I have children and do not send them to daycare
__ I don't have children but would send them to daycare
__ I don't have children and would not send them to daycare

I have a child, and do not send him to day care. His Nanna takes care of him twice a week (including one afternoon at play group).

Thinkchair
8th April 07, 07:55 PM
Vocation. Thank you. I suppose I should sort of know that word by now.

I don't think that all hobbies and goals need to be forgotten when children are born, BUT... their needs are often reason enough to put secondary parental needs on the back burner for a bit. As an aside, I'm also one of those who prefers hobbies and interests to be separate from work. Doing something I love isn't as much fun when someone else is telling me how/when/why to do it for me.

?


I agree.

Thinkchair
8th April 07, 07:56 PM
Thinkchair, do you realize that you in a way destroy your own arguments, like a 10 year old would?

It is like someone telling you " You did drugs last night!"

and you screaming " FUCK! I did not do any drugs last night! I was being good last night!"

meaning that you do drugs in general. I mean, it sounds like that every time you speak.

Could you explain this a little, and then write what you think I am trying to say and how I destroy my own argument.

ironlurker
8th April 07, 08:21 PM
I'd also suggest that this thread include a poll. Check one please,
__ I have children and send them to daycare
__ I have children and do not send them to daycare
__ I don't have children but would send them to daycare
__ I don't have children and would not send them to daycare

Just for the hell of it, right?
Hmmm, where is "I probably have some children somewhere"?

:ohyeah:

WarPhalange
8th April 07, 08:21 PM
Vocation. Thank you. I suppose I should sort of know that word by now.

I don't think that all hobbies and goals need to be forgotten when children are born, BUT... their needs are often reason enough to put secondary parental needs on the back burner for a bit. As an aside, I'm also one of those who prefers hobbies and interests to be separate from work. Doing something I love isn't as much fun when someone else is telling me how/when/why to do it for me.

I'm sorry. I can't do experimental physics as a hobby.

I don't see the reason for spending that much time with the kid, especially when most of it is done doing chores like cooking, cleaning, etc, while the kid plays and naps by itself anyway.

polishillusion
8th April 07, 08:22 PM
awwww, fuck it. this argument blows now anyway,m not explaining anything.

bob
8th April 07, 08:25 PM
I'm sorry. I can't do experimental physics as a hobby.

I don't see the reason for spending that much time with the kid, especially when most of it is done doing chores like cooking, cleaning, etc, while the kid plays and naps by itself anyway.

I'd like to get in early and predict that this will be your most successful troll ever.


A friend of mine told me yesterday that he's deferring the final year of his Phd in Molecular Biology - looking for a cure for cancer (I kid you not) - so that he can stay home and look after his son while his wife goes back to work.

polishillusion
8th April 07, 08:31 PM
Phd student looking for a break is not so much of a surprise.

WarPhalange
8th April 07, 08:35 PM
I know a Ph.D. student who takes his kid to school sometimes. I saw him pushing the stroller and he was a TA for my lab class.

A sociology (gasp!!) professor of mine got his Ph.D. while working full-time to support his wife and kid. Oh shits!

No, I am not trolling. I told you before, if you don't think you can handle doing both work and raising a kid, then quit work to raise the kid (assuming someone will provide income). That is the bigger responsibility. But there are people who can handle both. Sometimes the kid is gifted, sometimes the parent is exceptionally good. It actually happens more often than you think. So why should the parent confine him/her self to stay with the kid when they could both be better off? It also makes the weekend much better, because then it really becomes QUALITY time.

bob
8th April 07, 08:40 PM
Phd student looking for a break is not so much of a surprise.

Ok, I'll give you another few then.

My brother's an engineer. He was the youngest project manager his company had ever had. He told his boss he was taking six months off to look after his daughter. When his boss said, "no you're not" my brother suggested they continue the discussion with his lawyer. He took the time off, then came back and got promoted again.

Another friend (who has three degrees and speaks five languages) recently told me that he's quitting his high ranking government job to be a stay at home dad for the next three years while his wife takes up a diplomatic posting in Beirut (lolz at what the Lebanese will make of that).

I took nearly six months off to look after my son.

polishillusion
8th April 07, 08:47 PM
im proud of your awesome, but jealous of your $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


i cant wait till i can tell someone "well, lets discuss it with my lawyer"

WarPhalange
8th April 07, 08:48 PM
Taking six months or a year off isn't that bad. It's called "maternity" leave, you know? Assuming the baby was just born, you need every waking moment to make sure he doesn't like choke on his feet or something.

I'm talking more about the guy who took 3 years off, and especially the people who quit all together until the kids are "out of the house".

WarPhalange
8th April 07, 08:48 PM
im proud of your awesome, but jealous of your $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


i cant wait till i can tell someone "well, lets discuss it with my lawyer"
It's really easy. Just punch a cop.

bob
8th April 07, 08:54 PM
Taking six months or a year off isn't that bad. It's called "maternity" leave, you know? Assuming the baby was just born, you need every waking moment to make sure he doesn't like choke on his feet or something.

I'm talking more about the guy who took 3 years off, and especially the people who quit all together until the kids are "out of the house".

It's less common, but I do know a few male friends who've done this. Another that springs to mind is a friend who owned a couple of stores and sold them both so that he could stay at home for the next few years. But where I live it's actually fairly uncommon for either parent to take much more than a year off work after having a kid.

I'm just making the point that there's no reason that parents can't share the task of staying home from work, however long that may be, and that more and more people are doing it that way.

DAYoung
8th April 07, 11:12 PM
I took three months off, but I work part-time (precisely so I can be a Dad).

WarPhalange
9th April 07, 12:33 AM
I'm just making the point that there's no reason that parents can't share the task of staying home from work, however long that may be, and that more and more people are doing it that way.

Agreed. I wouldn't have a problem with staying at home for a year or so, providing that I would eventually go back to work (i.e. less than 3 years time). And, of course, providing that I actually liked my job.

Like DAY. He wants to be a good dad, but that doesn't stop him from doing something he likes anyway.

Another reason why I don't like the idea of a "stay at home mom" is that what, 50% of marriages end in divorce? Do you really want to rely on your husband still loving you as a way of not starving to death?

ironlurker
9th April 07, 02:25 AM
Just to comment, we have to remember that the "traditional" family in the sense of the nuclear family is the same as saying Aikido is a "traditional" MA- both were products of the twentieth century.

This doesn't mean its "bad" or "good", but that it was the product of historical, social, and cultural forces. In many times and places the extended family or different groupings like clans and so on were the locus of child rearing.

Dad was only an authority figure, or someone who wasn't even there because he was fighting/hunting/trading, or -for high status families- servants (or slaves) raised the children. Oh and teenagers preteens and tweens are artifacts of the twentieth century, in alot of places no one took care of you because your ass got put to work- anyone here ever read Germinal?

You can view the modern nuclear family as a cultural achievement , but it's tricky to call social institutions "natural" or in this case even "traditional". Again, doesn't mean its wrong, or not the best way to raise kids, but that its not the rule for human history.


Agreed. I wouldn't have a problem with staying at home for a year or so, providing that I would eventually go back to work.

http://imgred.com/http://www.duke.edu/%7Erkl7/Images/slob.jpg


Like DAY. He wants to be a good dad, but that doesn't stop him from doing something he likes anyway.
See this is the thing with DAY-
Nice guy
Nice colleague
Nice wife
Nice family
We must ask, how can someone be so nice?

I'm thinking A) serial killer or B) wall in house that spins around to enter the secret room with the helmets, swords, and dinner plates with swastikas on them.

DAYoung
9th April 07, 02:43 AM
See this is the thing with DAY-
Nice guy
Nice colleague
Nice wife
Nice family
We must ask, how can someone be so nice?

I'm thinking A) serial killer or B) wall in house that spins around to enter the secret room with the helmets, swords, and dinner plates with swastikas on them.

http://imgred.com/http://www.buddhamuseum.com/bronze-buddha/medicine-buddha_1599.jpg

Kiko
9th April 07, 06:28 AM
I'm listening for a bit.... need to get ready for work, so I don't really have time to compose my thoughts enough to chime in until I get home later.

One quick thought.... Maternity leave in the US is.. 6 weeks if I recall. It's actually a form of disability according to whomever makes the rules and sends you a piddly check.

One more, because ... it's .. going to make my brain explode if I don't let it out!
The day that I..."rely on my husband still loving me as a way of not starving to death".... I'm speechless. No, really. Make up your mind, please. Are women independent and intelligent enough that they'd rather pursue a career than face the drudgery of homemaking or are they indeed mindless drones who can't even handle subsistence without being sponsored by a husband??

bob
9th April 07, 07:13 AM
One quick thought.... Maternity leave in the US is.. 6 weeks if I recall. It's actually a form of disability according to whomever makes the rules and sends you a piddly check.



There's maternity and there's paid maternity. In Australia you're entitled to 12 months leave (unpaid). That means that the mother can have 12 months, or the mother can have 9 and the father 3 etc. etc. There is no such thing as compulsory paid leave, though some companies do provide it.

Thinkchair
9th April 07, 08:18 AM
Just to comment, we have to remember that the "traditional" family in the sense of the nuclear family is the same as saying Aikido is a "traditional" MA- both were products of the twentieth century.

This doesn't mean its "bad" or "good", but that it was the product of historical, social, and cultural forces. In many times and places the extended family or different groupings like clans and so on were the locus of child rearing.

Dad was only an authority figure, or someone who wasn't even there because he was fighting/hunting/trading, or -for high status families- servants (or slaves) raised the children. Oh and teenagers preteens and tweens are artifacts of the twentieth century, in alot of places no one took care of you because your ass got put to work- anyone here ever read Germinal?

You can view the modern nuclear family as a cultural achievement , but it's tricky to call social institutions "natural" or in this case even "traditional". Again, doesn't mean its wrong, or not the best way to raise kids, but that its not the rule for human history.


http://imgred.com/http://www.duke.edu/%7Erkl7/Images/slob.jpg


See this is the thing with DAY-
Nice guy
Nice colleague
Nice wife
Nice family
We must ask, how can someone be so nice?

I'm thinking A) serial killer or B) wall in house that spins around to enter the secret room with the helmets, swords, and dinner plates with swastikas on them.

The term nuclear family is new. But nuclear families have been around for a long time (for instance the Puritans in New England were made up of what we would call Nuclear Families). I did several internships at historical societies in New England while in college. Part of my job was transcribing the diaries of men and women from the 1700s and 1800s. The family life they described was what most people would call nuclear families. But I agree there is variation throughout the world, and has been variation through human history, of what makes a family. But the idea of the father working while the mother stays home and takes care of the children is not a new one; and seperate from whether a family is nuclear (though again there have been different arrangments in different cultures and societies--although it has almost always bean the women who nurture the children-and the men have almost always served as authority figures). You see this in extended families too. In fact my family would probably not be best described as nuclear. Her mother and sister live with us. My aunts and uncles live in the house next door (my grandfather lives behind them). I am Italian and she is Thai. This is how both our families have lived for generations. My family is from the Fruili region in Italy. A number of micro-histories have been written about people in that area. The family arrangements there, going all the way back to at least the 16th century (provided you are not talking about people of the upper class) resemble my own.

billy sol hurok
9th April 07, 11:38 AM
your welcome


http://themot.org/gallery/d/47833-1/Lysol.jpg

polishillusion
9th April 07, 11:55 AM
Lysol as a douche? holy shit, burns, it burns!

thank god i am not a woman

JimmyTheHutt
9th April 07, 04:41 PM
This thread is why marriage and children will forever remain outside of my experience.

Veritas et Lux!
Jimmy The Hutt

WarPhalange
9th April 07, 05:53 PM
http://imgred.com/http://www.duke.edu/%7Erkl7/Images/slob.jpg



I have long hair.

Kiko
9th April 07, 06:22 PM
I bet that guy in the chair had long hair when he was young and carefree, too!
*wg*

WarPhalange
9th April 07, 07:22 PM
I'm not young! I'm 20!

>:-(

polishillusion
9th April 07, 08:04 PM
im 22 today, fuck you all.

kobudo
9th April 07, 08:31 PM
28. Was engaged once. She made the mistake of becoming a frigid pain in the ass that couldn't get enough money out of me almost a year before the wedding date. Needless to say, I cut my losses and walked away from that one.

The transformation was almost instantaneous. I shit you not, it was almost scary to watch.

DAYoung
9th April 07, 08:36 PM
I own slippers, drive a Volvo, and listen to classical music.

polishillusion
9th April 07, 08:45 PM
28. Was engaged once. She made the mistake of becoming a frigid pain in the ass that couldn't get enough money out of me almost a year before the wedding date. Needless to say, I cut my losses and walked away from that one.

The transformation was almost instantaneous. I shit you not, it was almost scary to watch.

back on topic - modern "american" woman

kobudo
9th April 07, 08:53 PM
back on topic - modern "american" woman

She is a modern "American" woman. She married some other guy about 8 months after I left her. She knew what she wanted, and was willing to do what it took to get it -- "it" being a husband.

polishillusion
9th April 07, 08:55 PM
She is a modern "American" woman. She married some other guy about 8 months after I left her. She knew what she wanted, and was willing to do what it took to get it -- "it" being a husband.

No, "It" was money.

Kiko
10th April 07, 07:18 AM
Slippers AND cozy socks ftw!
If you think you're old at 20... er.. *boggle*

Wanting a husband and wanting money are NOT necessarily the same thing, btw, but pre-marital fridgidness is pretty stupid if marriage is the goal.

polishillusion
10th April 07, 05:56 PM
divorce is the goal.

Kiko
11th April 07, 08:00 AM
You might consider a few of these women...

Man's wives have no sense of humor (http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=oddlyEnoughNews&storyid=2007-04-10T130624Z_01_L10294588_RTRUKOC_0_US-SAUDI.xml)
RIYADH (Reuters) - A Saudi man lost a bit of his nose in a joint assault by his two wives after he jokingly threatened to marry a third woman.

Judaie Ibn Salem had thought his threat would help resolve an argument over dividing up his house.

"I swore that I would do it because ... they were impolite and that's when I came under an even bigger attack," Ibn Salem told Shams newspaper after having seven stitches inserted.

"I never realized they would get so worked up. But the only way to restore my dignity is really to take a third wife.

"I don't know what I'm going to lose next if I do that."

Islamic law allows men to take up to four wives and polygamy is not unusual in the conservative kingdom of Saudi Arabia, the birthplace of Islam.

kobudo
11th April 07, 04:02 PM
You might consider a few of these women...

So I guess the moral of the story is, if you live in a country where it's socially acceptable to beat your wife, don't marry more women than you can physically take at once. Imagine what they would be able to cut off if it was three vs. one.

This is, of course, assuming that the Burkhas that Saudi and other Middle Eastern women wear don't cause them to suffer from the ninja law of inverse effectiveness...

beck
11th April 07, 04:54 PM
Glad to see some things never change...

polishillusion
11th April 07, 05:44 PM
jeez, someone needs their clit removed as punishment.

Anna Kovacs
20th April 07, 10:54 PM
My mom is probably the quntisential american woman. Had me at age 18, was only married to my drug dealing father for about 2 months before divorcing, I was in fact very nearly an abortion...I spent much of my young life in the care of a baby sitter on a near daily basis so my mom could build her career. She didnt come to school events. I lived in the middle of nowhere and thus had no other kids around to play with except my siblings and we were often home alone while mom went to do her work thing.

Now she rakes down 350K a year and can help me out of serious financial problems that I have and often continue to face as a young adult.

I cried when she didnt make it to parent teacher day, i cried when she dropped me off at the baby sitters day after day...but goddamn....having a smart, independant, mother fucking rocks now that I can appreciate it.

Had my mother been the "traditional" type that simply let my stepfather do all the work while she raised the babies then when they divorved we would have been shit out of luck financially and my mom would have been back to waiting tables or some shit.

Since she built her own career she was better able to take care of me and my brothers and sisters and owns a half million dollar house in nashville and a beachfront home in the bahamas and is currently raising a 5 year old and 7 year old that she's able to be home with every day because she built a career when she was young.

DAYoung
20th April 07, 11:50 PM
NEWSFLASH: SINGLE MOTHERS CAUSE LESBIANISM.

Anna Kovacs
20th April 07, 11:55 PM
Then why is the african american lesbian population so small?

DAYoung
21st April 07, 12:01 AM
Then why is the african american lesbian population so small?

It's not. It's just that prejudice keeps them from coming out.

Just face it - happy two-parent, mixed-sex marriages produce normal, happy children.

Your only option is to become a man, and marry Ashly in a Catholic ceremony.

Neildo
21st April 07, 12:19 AM
NEWSFLASH: SINGLE MOTHERS CAUSE LESBIANISM.

I have to agree.


My childhood was a bit like that, But no babysitter. i took care of myself for years. hell, i've been doing banking since i was 8 or 9. cooked my first meal at 6. (hot dog, chips and grape juice)
And instead of my mom getting successful, she got sick. so now I'm taking care of her.

DAYoung
21st April 07, 12:24 AM
I have to agree.


My childhood was a bit like that, But no babysitter. i took care of myself for years. hell, i've been doing banking since i was 8 or 9. cooked my first meal at 6. (hot dog, chips and grape juice)
And instead of my mom getting successful, she got sick. so now I'm taking care of her.

See? And now you're a lesbian too.

I win again.

Anna Kovacs
21st April 07, 01:09 PM
Just as an aside I'd like to point out that I actually had a stepfather from about age 2 tilll age 13 so I grew up in a nuclea family setting :)

My mom wasn't a single mom for very long, she simply did not put her own dreams on hold for marriage and/or kids. Me and my siblings had a pretty happy childhood, better then most I'd imagine...unless many of you grew up with your own private pool+waterslide (and a full set of SCUBA gear for my 10 year old self)...four wheelers, motorcycles. I even had a pony, and later a horse :)

I don't put much stock in upbringing causing homosexuality, i like girls because 9 out of 10 guys are fuckin ugly. Plus I hear that yalll stink, too.

Stick
21st April 07, 01:12 PM
I always thought I was kind of pretty.

WarPhalange
21st April 07, 01:53 PM
Yes, but you are blind, so you can't tell anyway. I'm the pretty one.

Anna Kovacs
21st April 07, 02:07 PM
I always thought I was kind of pretty.


You're better then most but I'd still rather have sex with ashly. :P

AAAhmed46
21st April 07, 03:04 PM
Ill have sex with you Dai!

DerAuslander108
21st April 07, 05:08 PM
I won't.

Truculent Sheep
21st April 07, 07:31 PM
I even had a pony, and later a horse :)

Whatever happened to them? I could imagine you leading an effective cavalry charge.


I don't put much stock in upbringing causing homosexuality, i like girls because 9 out of 10 guys are fuckin ugly. Plus I hear that yalll stink, too.

We do. And all men look hilarious in the nude too.

Anna Kovacs
21st April 07, 07:42 PM
Whatever happened to them? I could imagine you leading an effective cavalry charge.

I didnt ride them much. I grew up on a farm but riding a big thing with a mind of it's own was kind of frightening to me. I prefered mechanical things such as my gokart or four wheeler or my motorcycle.


Also, i got kicked in the stomach by a horse when I was about 8 years old and it ruined my shit hardcore so I was cautious of them.

WarPhalange
21st April 07, 08:27 PM
We do. And all men look hilarious in the nude too.

I prefer the term "disgusting".

ironlurker
21st April 07, 11:20 PM
I was posting on Trollshido
One of my favorite lines from this thread

Gezere
21st April 07, 11:36 PM
Just as an aside I'd like to point out that I actually had a stepfather from about age 2 tilll age 13 so I grew up in a nuclea family setting :)

My mom wasn't a single mom for very long, she simply did not put her own dreams on hold for marriage and/or kids. Me and my siblings had a pretty happy childhood, better then most I'd imagine...unless many of you grew up with your own private pool+waterslide (and a full set of SCUBA gear for my 10 year old self)...four wheelers, motorcycles. I even had a pony, and later a horse :)

I don't put much stock in upbringing causing homosexuality, i like girls because 9 out of 10 guys are fuckin ugly. Plus I hear that yalll stink, too.
You don't know how hard it is being that one who is fucking HAWT that and my ass has healing powers!!!

Fearless Ukemi
24th April 07, 08:20 AM
Just as an aside I'd like to point out that I actually had a stepfather from about age 2 tilll age 13 so I grew up in a nuclea family setting :)

My mom wasn't a single mom for very long, she simply did not put her own dreams on hold for marriage and/or kids. Me and my siblings had a pretty happy childhood, better then most I'd imagine...unless many of you grew up with your own private pool+waterslide (and a full set of SCUBA gear for my 10 year old self)...four wheelers, motorcycles. I even had a pony, and later a horse :)

I don't put much stock in upbringing causing homosexuality, i like girls because 9 out of 10 guys are fuckin ugly. Plus I hear that yalll stink, too.


Wait a minute, weren't YOU the smelly one at your bjj class?

Anna Kovacs
24th April 07, 03:37 PM
I was but I don't wear my stinky BJJ shirt in the outside world so that doesnt count :)

AAAhmed46
25th April 07, 06:16 AM
Have you ever seen anyone wear a rashgaurd for the sake of wearing it for kicks?