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ironlurker
27th March 07, 07:20 PM
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l43/whackula/10941703_240X180.jpg
This is a particularly disgusting story from around here.

To sum up: both parents are on disability, the other kids are, one daughter
is half-way normal so she can't get a government hand-out, she's gotta go.

-boring background alert, skip to below for the article-
BTW, Welfare is the favorite bęte noire of right wing social critics, but it's actually been tightened up alot in Massachusetts.There's a cap on the additional benefits you can get while having children on welfare, so more kids does not equal more money, and a finite limit to the time you can receive benefits, especially if you are not working or in school.
Yes, there are some families who lose their housing because their welfare benefits run out, and Mom's minimum wage at Walmart can't pay the rent.
-BUT-
Disability is another story entirely.
Sit on your couch, play video games, go down to the convenience store in your sweatpants and flip-flops to buy a carton of Merit, because you have anxiety, or, hell, you're obese.
On welfare AND disability? There's a cap on the total amount of benefits you can get, but most importantly, there's no clock on your benefits as there is for the standard welfare recipient.
So you can eat donuts watching Springer and laugh at the Mom in the example above trying to work for enough money so she doesn't become homeless.
"Wait, you shouldn't drink and smoke meth while you're pregnant!"
-BUT-
If you yourself are on disability, and you give birth to a child that has a disability, you receive money for both yourself and your child (not double, but more).
-boring background over-

Oh, the "father" is not just a fucking slob but also a pedo who molested the "mother's" other daughter.

This was the first article on the four year old's death-
the second one has even better details
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/02/06/hull_parents_arrested_in_girls_poisoning_death/


Hull parents arrested in girl's poisoning death

By David Abel, Globe Staff | February 6, 2007
The parents of a 4-year-old girl from Hull were arrested yesterday on murder charges after investigators concluded they poisoned their daughter, prosecutors said.
Michael Riley , 34, and his wife, Carolyn, 32, were taken into custody at his mother's house in Weymouth in the death of their daughter Rebecca in December, said officials in the Plymouth district attorney's office.
Just after 6:30 a.m. on Dec. 13, Hull police responded to a call for an unresponsive girl at the family's home on Lynn Avenue, prosecutors said. They found Rebecca dead on her parents' bedroom floor.
An investigation by State Police and Hull police found the girl had been prescribed the drugs clonidine for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and valproic acid and Seroquel for bipolar disorder. A psychiatrist had diagnosed her with both disorders at age 2 1/2, prosecutors said.
The medical examiner's office determined the girl died from "intoxication due to the combined effects" of the drugs clonidine, valproic acid (Depakote), dextromethorphan, and chlorpheniramine, the district attorney's office said in a statement.
"This occurred as a result of the intentional overdose of Rebecca with clonidine," the statement said. "The manner of death was determined to be homicide."
Clonidine is approved by the Food and Drug Administration to treat high blood pressure, but is sometimes used to treat hyperactive symptoms.
The mothers of both Michael and Carolyn Riley said last night the couple is innocent.
Valerie Berio , Carolyn Riley's mother, called the homicide charges "ludicrous."
"She was their treasure, their angel," Berio said in a telephone interview. "They loved her more than life itself. They didn't consciously give her anything to make her go to sleep and not wake up."
She said Rebecca had been described as hyperactive in school, but had been recently seen as "a little too quiet" by school administrators.
Berio said the couple grew up in Weymouth, knew each other since they were young, and married in 1994. She said Michael Riley is unemployed and claims disability. "Michael is the sweetest kid in the world. They would have never wanted to hurt their daughter," Berio said. "I love him like he's my own kid."
Kathleen Riley , Michael's mother, described the couple as great parents.
"I can't believe this is happening," she said in a telephone interview. "It's a terrible disgrace. I have no idea how anyone could say this is deliberate. I'm shocked. They loved their children."
She said the couple had a miscarriage six years ago and had been living apart for the last year, though they were in the home together the morning Rebecca died.
"He's been a wonderful father," Riley said. "All the charges against them are false. He cried at night because he had to live with me for the past year. He's been under such pressure. The poor kid [34!!!!!!] I don't know how he's going to handle this. They just wanted to be together."
Denise Monteiro , a spokeswoman for the state Department of Social Services, said the department "found evidence for neglect" of Rebecca.
On Dec. 13, the agency removed the couple's other children, a 6-year-old girl and an 11-year-old boy, from the home, Monteiro said. They remain in foster homes.
In 2005, DSS began investigating allegations that Michael Riley sexually abused a 13-year-old girl , Monteiro said. Kathleen Riley and Berio identified the girl as Carolyn Riley's daughter from another relationship. The girl had been adopted to another home in 2002.
Also in 2005, DSS launched an investigation into whether Carolyn Riley had neglected her children, Monteiro said.
"We supported the allegations of abuse, and we forwarded that report to the Norfolk district attorney's office," she said. "We also supported the allegations of neglect against the mother."
The status of those allegations was unclear last night.
A spokesman for the Norfolk district attorney's office did not return calls.
Berio called the allegations of abuse "completely ridiculous."
"There's no evidence at all to back them up," she said. "But it devastated them, and now it has snowballed to this."
In June 2005, DSS ordered Michael Riley out of the home, Monteiro said. He was only allowed to see the children under supervision by a DSS official, she said.
"We're investigating why Michael Riley was at the home without supervision," when police found Rebecca dead, Monteiro said last nig




Prosecutor outlines case against Hull couple in 4-year-old’s death
By Jessica Van Sack
Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - Updated:

BROCKTON, Mass. -- The Hull couple accused of drugging their 4-year-old daughter to death continued to be held without bail at their arraignment today as the prosecution depicted two parents hungry for handouts but unable to secure government disability benefits for the little girl they ultimately drugged to death.
Plymouth County Assistant District Attorney Frank Middleton said grand jury proceedings uncovered startling new evidence that Carolyn Riley complained to her aunt that little Rebecca Jeanne Riley was not receiving disability benefits and that she would take her daughter to a doctor in hopes of getting a lucrative diagnosis. The claim prompted gasps from family members in the court room.
“I’d suggest at this point there’s overwhelming evidence of their guilt,” said Middleton.
He said two doctors reviewed and denied Carolyn and Michael Riley’s application for disability benefits on April 8, 2005. One doctor dismissed the diagnosis of child psychologist Kayoko Kifuji on March 11, 2005 after a visit with Rebecca. Dr. Kifujidiagnosed Rebecca at 28 months old with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and bipolar disorder.
Armed with the bipolar diagnosis, Carolyn and Michael Riley later applied again for disability benefits for Rebecca and again were rejected, Middleton said.
Michael Riley’s attorney, John Darrell, accused Middleton of basing his case on “innuendo that’s not supported by fact.”
Both attorneys sought to shift blame for Rebecca’s death onto the doctor who prescribed the controversial medication Clonodine, a blood pressure medication sometimes used to temper hyperactivity in children.
“It’s Dr. Kifuji who is the cause of an overdose if that’s what it was,” said Carolyn Riley’s attorney Michael Bourbeau.
Rebecca Riley was found hideously covered in her own bodily fluids, lying on a stack of magazines and clothing on the floor of her parent’s bedroom on Dec. 13, 2006. A medical examiner determined her death was due to the combined effects of Clonodine, Depakote and Seroquel.
“That’s a tragedy, it’s not murder,” Darrell said.
New information also emerged about Michael Riley’s demeanor on the morning his daughter died. Middleton said Hull firefighters reported him to be totally unaffected.
“He acted like the whole thing was an inconvenience,” Middleton said, adding that Riley “tried to engage in small talk” with firefighters and showed “no emotion.”
Darrell maintained Riley’s stoic demeanor was the result of medications for a variety of illnesses, a side effect of which is decreased emotions.
“Carolyn Riley is a disabled individual who herself is on disability and who is caring for children with disabilities,” said Bourbeau, accusing the prosecution of picking an easy target. http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/02/06/hull_parents_arrested_in_girls_poisoning_death/

Yiktin Voxbane
27th March 07, 07:38 PM
Sad beyond words but rest assured, Justice will be served, we just need to wait till thy enter the prison population .

WarPhalange
27th March 07, 07:45 PM
Fucking bullshit. My mother has a torn rotator cuff. She can't even lift her own arm sometimes. She doesn't get shit from the state (because it's not a disability, apparently) and had to get a job at McDonald's (she'll be a manager in no time, though).

These assholes claim bipolar as being a disability? They have meds for this shit now. Good meds. A disability is when you can't do something. Bipolar just means you can't make up your damn mind, but they have meds for that now, so it isn't even that big a deal.

Zendetta
27th March 07, 08:15 PM
THis is a good arguement against capitol punishment.

Because if we executed these sorry fucks, then we couldn't give them the torture they so richly deserve.

Iscariot
27th March 07, 08:16 PM
Yet another thread I'd like to request moved to Ground Zero.

The more important thing is what kind of certified psychiatrist certified a 28 month old infant with a bi polar disorder? There needs to be some investigation right there.

I'd also have some questions for Sam Browning if he had some time to frequent this forum.

ironlurker
27th March 07, 08:36 PM
The more important thing is what kind of certified psychiatrist certified a 28 month old infant with a bi polar disorder? There needs to be some investigation right there.
You're 100% correct, this is another huge issue this case raises.



The drugs have not been tested and approved by the federal government for psychiatric use in children, but the law does not stop doctors from prescribing these and other drugs to children if they do so safely based on their medical judgment.The police report also outlined a distressing pattern of Rebecca's mother's ability to obtain re fills of her medications, even when some pharmacists and a local therapist, who worked with the Riley family, raised questions to the doctor about the girl's medications. Michael Bourbeau, attorney for Rebecca's mother, said the mother insists that Kifuji sanctioned the giving of an extra dose of clonidine, the drug blamed in her death, if the girl had trouble sleeping at night. Kifuji has vehemently denied that during interviews with police

EDIT- yes it is impossible, technically, to diagnose a two year old with bipolar disorder- just as it is impossible to diagnose a two or three year old with ADD/ADHD! In addition, many diagnoses require the behavior/feelings to occur in multiple sites, so if a child is just at home with mom, guess what? In technical terms, they can't have ADD.

This link below is an article where that question is specifically adressed.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/02/19/girls_death_puts_doctor_at_center_of_controversy/

ironlurker
27th March 07, 10:16 PM
This link here has more sick, sick, sick details of this story (yeah there's more)


In the final months of Rebecca Riley's life, a school nurse said the little girl was so weak she was like a "floppy doll." The preschool principal had to help Rebecca off the bus because the 4-year-old was shaking so badly. And a pharmacist complained that Rebecca's mother kept coming up with excuses for why her daughter needed more and more medication. None of their concerns was enough to save Rebecca
Prosecutors say the Rileys intentionally tried to quiet their daughter with high doses of Clonidine. Relatives told police the Rileys called Clonidine the "happy medicine" and the "sleep medicine."
Rebecca was found dead on the floor of her parents' bedroom wearing only a pink pull-up diaper and gold-stud earrings, on top of a pile of clothes, magazines and a stuffed brown bear.
Rebecca's uncle, James McGonnell, and his girlfriend, Kelly Williams, who lived with the Rileys, told police that the Rileys would put their kids to bed as early as 5 p.m. Rebecca, they said, often slept through the day and got up only to eat.
When Michael Riley decided the kids were "acting up," he told Carolyn to give them pills, McGonnell and Williams told police.
According to McGonnell and Williams, Rebecca spent the last days of her life wandering around the house, sick and disoriented. But the Rileys told police they were not alarmed. "It was just a cold," Carolyn repeatedly said during police interviews.
The medical examiner said Rebecca died a slow and painful death. She said the overdose of Clonidine caused her organs to shut down, filling her lungs with fluid and causing congestive heart failure.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070323/ap_on_he_me/drugged_to_death

As Iscariot pointed out, this case has raised the issue of how the hell a two year old can have bipolar disorder. I know children can be disgnosed as autisitc at a very young age- but I was under the impression that bipolar wasn't a valid diagnosis for such a young child.
Here's one psychologist's opinion, brought about by considering this OD case


As we and others reported last month, a very early diagnosis of bipolar disorder was one of the probable factors that led to a young child’s death. I’m sorry, but unless it’s an extreme exception, adult diagnoses such as bipolar disorder are not recognized in children at 2 or even 3 years old. Children at such young ages are under active, constantly-changing development. There are no widely-accepted, legitimate diagnostic criteria for children generally under 12 for bipolar disorder . . .

The key here is that while clinicians and researchers agree that some form of bipolar disorder seems to exist within children and adolescents, virtually nothing is agreed upon when it comes to the form, nature and treatment of that disorder. Clinicians are out there doing what they normally do — doing the best they can with the presenting problems of clients (or their parents), while researchers are coming at the issue from a dozen different angles.


Seeing it from this light, we can understand the confusion and lack of practice guidelines in this area. But as a clinician, when confronted with such a challenging area as this, I would think most would err on the side of being fairly conservative in their treatment. Especially of a child. And especially of a very, very young child with powerful psychopharmacological treatments that have only small amounts of empirical support at present (with absolutely no long-term, logitudinal studies done on children to ensure these medications don’t have serious, long-term detrimental developmental side effects).

http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2007/03/19/the-ongoing-child-bipolar-diagnosis-controversy/

Alrighty, now here's a paragraph from a website all about your bipolar tot:



We have interviewed many parents who report that their children seemed different from birth, or that they noticed that something was wrong as early as 18 months. Their babies were often extremely difficult to settle, rarely slept, experienced separation anxiety, and seemed overly responsive to sensory stimulation.
In early childhood, the youngster may appear hyperactive, inattentive, fidgety, easily frustrated and prone to terrible temper tantrums (especially if the word "no" appears in the parental vocabulary). These explosions can go on for prolonged periods of time and the child can become quite aggressive or even violent. (Rarely does the child show this side to the outside world).
A child with bipolar disorder may be bossy, overbearing, extremely oppositional, and have difficulty making transitions. His or her mood can veer from morbid and hopeless to silly, giddy and goofy within very short periods of time. Some children experience social phobia, while others are extremely charismatic and and risk-taking.
http://www.bipolarchild.com/articles.html#faq

Wow that's pretty damn abnormal for a two or three year old! I'm no Tom Cruise "psychiatrists-work-for-Xenu" guy, but I call BS on this.

Steve
28th March 07, 01:52 AM
Bipolar just means you can't make up your damn mind

You have no idea what you're talking about. I've had friends that have the condition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bi-polar_disorder).


but they have meds for that now, so it isn't even that big a deal.

As if all of humanities dispositions were the same.

Englebert Von Stropenheimer
28th March 07, 02:17 AM
Now wait a minute. The girl was four years old, right? At that age, she has no right to still be wearing diapers. So not only was she not a source of income for the family, but a liability as well. My grandpa used to tell me stories about how back in like the '20s or something, his family would make him go out every day before the sun came up to tend to the crops in order to provide for the family starting when he was just a little fellow. It sounds like this girl was a useless and pampered princess who had no intention of helping the family out. It's her own fault for not wanting to do any work; the family was right to put her down.

DAYoung
28th March 07, 04:26 AM
The existence of these evil fucks is an affront to everything good in the world.

May they suffer.

WarPhalange
28th March 07, 08:53 AM
You have no idea what you're talking about. I've had friends that have the condition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bi-polar_disorder).

No, I really do know. I just way oversimplified it. But my point is it's not like autism where you can't learn something or whatever.




As if all of humanities dispositions were the same.

Of course not. But bipolar has been around for a while. There's a shitload of different meds for them.

If none of the meds work for you, then yeah, you have the luck of a cancer patient. Somehow I doubt the kid tried all the different meds, though.

And obviously, there are different levels of bipolar. If someone has really rapid cycling and goes really deep into the moods (i.e. really hyper, then really depressed, etc.), then I can understand how it would fuck over the person's life. At the age of 4, you don't have a life, though. So I don't see why she would need any disability benefits besides maybe some cash for her meds.

Did your friends commit suicide or something? Were they on disability while you knew them?

Kiko
28th March 07, 09:10 AM
This is amazingly irresponsible on so many levels. The parents, the doctor who diagnosed the girl.

There's so much they don't know about these drugs, even with adults who can provide feedback that finding the RIGHT combination of meds for each person is a crapshoot.

None of that will bring her back. She was possibly the only normal member of the family who might have grown up to be productive. We'll never know.

ICY
28th March 07, 01:56 PM
Evolution takes a step forward with the death of that child, no matter how you look at it.

Steve
28th March 07, 03:57 PM
No, I really do know. I just way oversimplified it. But my point is it's not like autism where you can't learn something or whatever.


As if all of humanities dispositions were the same.

Of course not. But bipolar has been around for a while. There's a shitload of different meds for them.

If none of the meds work for you, then yeah, you have the luck of a cancer patient. Somehow I doubt the kid tried all the different meds, though.

And obviously, there are different levels of bipolar. If someone has really rapid cycling and goes really deep into the moods (i.e. really hyper, then really depressed, etc.), then I can understand how it would fuck over the person's life. At the age of 4, you don't have a life, though. So I don't see why she would need any disability benefits besides maybe some cash for her meds.

Alright. It just struck a nerve the way you said it originally.


Did your friends commit suicide or something? Were they on disability while you knew them?

I'd rather not go into to much detail. Let's just say that one of my friends did have very extreme cycles and it made it a really rough friendship (sucked esp because he was such a cool dude). I really hope he's doing okay, haven't seen him for a few years now...

Obviously it's still a sore spot for me, more than I realized.

WarPhalange
28th March 07, 05:40 PM
Evolution takes a step forward with the death of that child, no matter how you look at it.

No. It just stays still. If the kid were born better than the rest and survived, that's a step forward.

Kein Haar
28th March 07, 05:47 PM
I'm gonna go ahead and agree with Poop Loops.

Bi-polar people are useless fucks.

As adults they always go off their medications and "go missing." Their families usually show up as groups and tell me what I need to do to go find them. At which point, I tell them I'll don a plaid sherlock holmes hat and inspect their last known location with a magnifying glass.

Actually though, I usually just carry a bucket of blow to a seedy intersection in the ajoining city and make calls to which she (usually a she) would respond.

Works like a charm.

ironlurker
28th March 07, 06:29 PM
As adults they always go off their medications and "go missing."
The problem is, as soon as the medicines start working, they figure they don't need them, or they're sick of the side effects. I have a friend whose father in law does the whole frigging ring around the rosey you described every 2-3 months.

In college I knew a guy who was bipolar, very bright, sociable, 90% of the time, but then he'd go off his meds. Everyone has their thing when they go off- some of them charge up thousands of dollars of clothes, some get into fights, some make death threats, some wander off in the woods as Kein described.
This guy's thing was sex with hookers, nasty, nasty hookers.

Like I said, he was bright (usually), and was going to law school. Senior year he did an internship at a law office in the same city as the university.
He fell in love with the female partner he was working for, went of his meds, and became obsessed with the fact that she didn't love him back.
Needless to say, she herself had no damn clue about his fantasies.

So, to get back at her he went into the practice at night, with a key (stupid as they obviously knew who had one), and erased and destroyed all the hard drives and shredded all the hard copy files of the whole office.
Oh, and while they were charging him for this he made several bomb threats.
The moral: stay on your meds.
------

as far as the thread goes, the latest news is more child molestation allegations about the "father"
-"In September of 2005, he was indicted for attempted rape of a child under 14, indecent assault and battery, and giving pornography to a child."
He also was"picked on alot in elementary school" we learn.

Oh, and he could alledgedly be a Satan worshipper.

The grandmother is keeping the girls ashes in a box on top of her (the grandmother's) hamster cage, next to her cartons of Merit/GPC etc.

The mother's first husband (father of the girl who was removed from the house due to molestation) is a registered sex offender, so she evidently knows how to pick em'-
Can you say battered woman syndrome? "While he was fucking my 13 yr old daughter I was so terrified I could barely choke down my twinkies"

The psychiatrist has voluntarily surrendered her medical license pending an investigation, and Walgreens might catch shit for refilling tranquilizer prescriptions eight billion times in one week.

And, as Yiktin predicted, their souless homonculous of a lawyer is already bitching and moaning that they are both being "threatened and harassed" by other inmates
http://www.patriotledger.com/articles/2007/03/28/news/news02.txt

Thinkchair
28th March 07, 08:09 PM
I am from the area where this happened. There is still some uncertainty around the case. But once it goes to trial, hopefully things will start to come to light. I Just want to know why the doctor kept giving drugs to these kids ( aparently the parents had all of their kids on medication of this kind).

WarPhalange
29th March 07, 04:23 PM
I'm gonna go ahead and agree with Poop Loops.

Bi-polar people are useless fucks.

That's not what I said at all. I just said that in most cases, it doesn't count as a disability because they can get it under control.

JimmyTheHutt
29th March 07, 05:51 PM
These assholes claim bipolar as being a disability? They have meds for this shit now. Good meds. A disability is when you can't do something. Bipolar just means you can't make up your damn mind, but they have meds for that now, so it isn't even that big a deal.

It's a big deal based on the severity of symptoms. Some bi-polar individuals have relatively minor symptoms that are easy to control with medication. Some are like schizophrenics in their severity. While medication might mitigate it, it does not prevent it to the extent you posit. There is more to it than not being able to make up your mind.

Veritas et Lux!
Jimmy The Hutt

JimmyTheHutt
29th March 07, 05:53 PM
Bi-polar people are useless fucks.


On behalf of my grandfather and mother, I would like to say fuck off and die in a fire.

Veritas et Lux!
Jimmy The Hutt

Thinkchair
29th March 07, 06:06 PM
On behalf of my grandfather and mother, I would like to say fuck off and die in a fire.

Veritas et Lux!
Jimmy The Hutt

Easy there buddy. You are just strengthening pooploops position. Take some paxil and chill.

JimmyTheHutt
29th March 07, 06:25 PM
Easy there buddy. You are just strengthening pooploops position. Take some paxil and chill.

Mmmm. Paxil. Tasty, tasty paxil.

Veritas et Lux!
Jimmy The Hutt

Thinkchair
29th March 07, 06:49 PM
Mmmm. Paxil. Tasty, tasty paxil.

Veritas et Lux!
Jimmy The Hutt

Just mush it up into your kid's oatmeal and he is good to go.