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View Full Version : THIS IS SPARTAAAAA! Or, of on-line petitions and touchy Persians



Stick
13th March 07, 03:47 PM
So I was surfing along the information super high way, minding my own business, when out of the blue I was attacked by this link!

"300, an unethical movie picture" (http://www.petitiononline.com/wpci96c/petition.html)

Having recently seen- nay, basked in the glory of 300, I felt compelled to check this out. And this, this is what I read:

To: Warner Bros. Pictures Company
Cc: Zack Snyder (director)

Dear Warner Bros. Picture Company,


We the undersigned, through this letter, protest your irresponsible, unethical and unscientific actions.

This letter is in concern of making the movie, 300 by your company, which, according to all historical documents, is fraudulent and distorted, and its broadcast guarantees the violation of undeniable international legal rights.

It is a proven scholarly fact that the Persian Empire in 480 B.C was the most magnificent and civilized empire. Established by the Cyrus the great, the writer of the first human right declaration, Persians ruled over significant portions of Greater Iran, the east modern Afghanistan and beyond into central Asia; in the north and west all of Asia Minor (modern Turkey), the upper Balkans peninsula (Thrace), and most of the Black Sea coastal regions; in the west and southwest the territories of modern Iraq, northern Saudi-Arabia, Jordan, Israel, Lebanon, Syria, all significant population centers of ancient Egypt and as far west as portions of Libya. Having twenty nations under control, encompassing approximately 7.5 million square kilometers, unquestionably the Achaemenid Empire was territorially the largest empire of classical antiquity.

Based on the Zoroastrian doctrine, it was the strong emphasis on honesty and integrity that gave the ancient Persians credibility to rule the world, even in the eyes of the people belonging to the conquered nations (Herodotus, mid 5th century B.C). Truth for the sake of truth, was the universal motto and the very core of the Persian culture that was followed not only by the great kings, but even the ordinary Persians made it a point to adhere to this code of conduct.

We did not expect Warner Bros. Picture company, as one of the world's largest producers of film and television entertainment to ignore the proven obvious historical facts, and damage its own reputation by showing the Persian army at the battle of Thermopylae as some monstrous savages, and thus create an atmosphere of public mistrust in its content, and hurt the national pride of the millions of Persians while doing so.

While announcing our disgust at such a heresy, we demand an immediate historical review and quick apology from the responsible people.


Sincerely,
The Undersigned (http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?wpci96c)


http://www.bullshido.net/gallery/data/500/leonidas.jpgNeedless to say I was outraged- OUTRAGED, I SAY!

So, being the man of sound mind and body that I am, and well versed in this our information super age, I responded in kind. (http://www.petitiononline.com/sparta07/petition.html)

My response reads as follows:

To: Dr. Hamed Vahdati Nasab, etc.


We, the undersigned, being of sound mind and body do hereby freely declare with no reservation or purpose of evasion that all of the undersigned attached to the "300, an unethical movie picture" petition located at this URL:

http://www.petitiononline.com/wpci96c/petition.html

are well and truly whiny, little cry babies incapable of distinguishing a movie based upon a comic book which was itself based upon a movie from a historic reenactment.


Sincerely,
The Undersigned (http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?sparta07)

Good, free men (and women) of Sociocide, affix your signature to this valiant electronic stand against a horde of some 36,000+ blubbering fools, and let the world know that you will not tolerate their politically correct tyranny!

In conclusion, on-line petitions are a huge waste of time.

Neildo
13th March 07, 04:06 PM
Done, done, and done.

Question!
13th March 07, 04:09 PM
Have those idiots even watched the movie? Cause if they did, they would realize that the story was being told from the POV of the last Spartan thus it makes sense that he would exaggerate and demonize the enemy.

Quick! Someone post the WAAHHHMMMBULANCE pic!

Stick
13th March 07, 04:30 PM
Come on guys, get the word out.

We need 300 signatures!

Seraphim
13th March 07, 04:35 PM
Why not get mad at Frank Miller? Silly Iranians.

I read that story and considered posting it here. I like the direction you've taken it.

Cheers.

Commodore Pipes
13th March 07, 04:48 PM
Who are the pussies who didn't use their real names?

bob
13th March 07, 04:50 PM
Ok, I signed it but if we don't get at least 300 sigs I'm not standing shoulder to shoulder with you goons.

Does anyone have some armour I can borrow? The thought of sharp metal piercing my tender flesh makes me shudder. Ugh.

Steve
13th March 07, 04:50 PM
Haven't seen the movie yet.

Yes, I signed anyway.

JimmyTheHutt
13th March 07, 04:54 PM
Fine, fine, I'll sign your petition....

Veritas et Lux!
Jimmy The Hutt

WarPhalange
13th March 07, 05:10 PM
I'm not going to see the movie.

I signed anyway.

Commodore Pipes
13th March 07, 05:11 PM
Did you use your real name?

WarPhalange
13th March 07, 05:14 PM
I use my real name in my email. If I give out my email and someone emails me, they know my name anyway.

Commodore Pipes
13th March 07, 05:26 PM
Yeah! I looked at the signers, and there are a bunch of screen names! What kind of stand is that?

"Yeah, I'll 'sign' it, except I won't use my real name."

Question!
13th March 07, 05:49 PM
I'm not going to see the movie.

Why the fuck not?

WarPhalange
13th March 07, 06:22 PM
Because I don't want to.

Case Closed.

bad credit
13th March 07, 07:14 PM
Uh, I signed with my real name, should I have used my moniker?

Kiko
13th March 07, 07:18 PM
Just make a big http://www.absoluteanime.com/x/index.gif

Zendetta
13th March 07, 07:19 PM
So, what do the mullahs really think about pre-Islamic Persia?

Osiris
13th March 07, 08:26 PM
They kinda have a point. You'd think it was a propoganda film as the persians came off as not only evil, which would've made sense in their context as villains, but subhuman which was an odd choice. It also wasn't a part of the original comic. They also just happened to be dark skinned, despite being persian. So really, whats going on there?

AAAhmed46
13th March 07, 08:30 PM
Yeah, some persians were even aryan looking.

Question!
13th March 07, 08:40 PM
Like I said in my previous post, the film is a story as told by Dilios the last Spartan who was sent back by Leonidas to tell their story to the people.

Osiris
13th March 07, 08:50 PM
Still, the film makers made all those choices. Generally human characters aren't portrayed in such a manner.

WarPhalange
13th March 07, 08:52 PM
Clearly the only explanation is that Persians generally aren't human.

I mean look at Freddie Mercury. He had a huge overbite.

Sirc
13th March 07, 11:52 PM
I am the 45 signer.

Steve
14th March 07, 12:00 AM
Clearly the only explanation is that Persians generally aren't human.

I mean look at Freddie Mercury. He had a huge overbite.

Yes, Freddie's ability as a singer was indeed inhuman.

I never really paid attention to his looks.

Zendetta
14th March 07, 01:12 AM
Yeah, some persians were even aryan looking.

Shit, wern't the real the Aryans from Iran?

Question!
14th March 07, 02:24 AM
The Immortals' face masks were wicked cool.

Osiris
14th March 07, 02:27 AM
That I agree on. That was fucking cool.

Sirc
14th March 07, 02:49 AM
Oh the huge manatee of this. What ironing. I think I'm gonna go choke some bitches.

mrblackmagic
14th March 07, 06:52 AM
Shit, wern't the real the Aryans from Iran?

Yes, they don't want a Brazilian guy to play a black guy whose actually a white guy. Racist. I tell you . Racist.

BTW. Whose doing the review? I saw it Monday, but I don't really remember too much.

Shawarma
14th March 07, 10:43 AM
The only thing gayer than people whining about a movie is people starting a petition to whine about the people whining about the movie.

Unsigned.

Scrapper
14th March 07, 02:09 PM
signed it.

Neildo
14th March 07, 03:05 PM
The only thing gayer than people whining about a movie is people starting a petition to whine about the people whining about the movie.

Unsigned.

TRAITOR! TERRORIST!

Iscariot
14th March 07, 03:29 PM
OK, peoples, came late to this thread as I thought it might contain spoilers it being in MMM and all, however the thread title became clear after I read this article:

US action film 'insulting to Iran'

Iran has attacked American action movie 300, calling it "psychological warfare" aimed at insulting the country's ancient culture.

The hit film, which raked in a massive 70 million dollars (35 million) over its opening weekend, is based on a comic-book fantasy version of the 480BC Battle of Thermopylae, where a force of 300 Spartans held off a huge Persian army at a Greek mountain pass for three days.

Director Zack Snyder and the film's producers have stressed that the film is based on a graphic novel by Frank Miller and was never intended to be an accurate historical representation.

"Hollywood declares war on Iranians," a headline in Tuesday's independent Ayende-No newspaper screamed.

Javad Shamghadri, a cultural adviser to Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmedinejad, said the film was "part of a comprehensive US psychological warfare aimed at Iranian culture".

He accused America of trying to "humiliate" Iran to reverse historical reality and "compensate for its wrongdoings in order to provoke American soldiers and warmongers" against the nation.

Some 35,000 people have signed an online petition to Warner Brothers demanding an apology over the movie and an immediate historical review. Some US reviewers also commented on the political overtones of the West-against-Iran storyline at a time of mounting tension over the nation's nuclear programme and the Iraq war.

They noted that the Persians - from whom Iranians are descended - were portrayed as decadent, sexually flamboyant and evil, in contrast to the noble Greeks.

A Warner Brothers spokesman told Variety: "The film 300 is a work of fiction inspired by the Frank Miller graphic novel and loosely based on an historical event. The studio developed this film purely as a fictional work with the sole purpose of entertaining audiences; it is not meant to disparage an ethnicity or culture or make any sort of political statement."

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/14032007/344/action-film-insulting-iran.html


Now, sufficed to say, I was royally pissed when I read this. First, IT'S A WORK OF FICTION!!! Same as every film ever made about Robin Hood or King Arthur. Only complete and utter morons would take it as fact (Bonus points for the person who brings me a link with a Right Wing US commentator citing it as factual). Second, it's not an historical film, it's an adaptation. That means it isn't based on fucking reality, it's based on a made up story. You want an apology? Go talk to Frank Miller, no actually don't, because then I'll be even more pissed. Thirdly and finally, I've managed to ascertain all of this and I still haven't seen the film yet.

On the subject of the review, I'd do one, but we don't get the release for another nine days.....

Neildo
14th March 07, 03:55 PM
So did you sign the fucking petition, or what? Terrorist?

Osiris
14th March 07, 05:18 PM
I like how everyone is like "OMG ITS BASED ON FRANK MILLER!!!11" as if A. He's not a right wing nutcase and B. HE EVEN WROTE THAT CRAP INTO THE MOVIE. Have you read 300? Most of the bullshit in question isn't in there.

Now, as far as it being fiction goes, thats beside the point. Fictionalized dehumanization gets the message across just fine.

Osiris
14th March 07, 05:21 PM
Imagine a revolutionary war movie with the Americans being played by mexican ogres. At some point you'd have to wonder what the fuck kind of point they were trying to make.

Kiko
14th March 07, 05:26 PM
Just the image of a Mexican ogre is enough..
*snicker*

Osiris
14th March 07, 06:24 PM
Ooh, we can do Columbus Day about a fleet of Viking Berserker werewolves landing in America.

Zendetta
14th March 07, 06:30 PM
Thats pretty much the PC version of the way it happened anyway.

Stick
14th March 07, 06:43 PM
Ooh, we can do Columbus Day about a fleet of Viking Berserker werewolves landing in America.

Pathfinder (IGN) (http://movies.ign.com/objects/728/728052.html) (imdb) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0446013/)

A Viking boy is left behind after his clan battles a Native American tribe. Raised within the tribe, he ultimately becomes their savoir in a fight against the Norsemen.


Vikings
http://www.bullshido.net/gallery/data/500/medium/pathfinder-20060822022025554.jpg


VS.


Indians
http://www.bullshido.net/gallery/data/500/pathfinder-20060822022026585.jpg


it...
is...
on!

Iscariot
14th March 07, 06:56 PM
I like how everyone is like "OMG ITS BASED ON FRANK MILLER!!!11" as if A. He's not a right wing nutcase and B. HE EVEN WROTE THAT CRAP INTO THE MOVIE. Have you read 300? Most of the bullshit in question isn't in there.

Now, as far as it being fiction goes, thats beside the point. Fictionalized dehumanization gets the message across just fine.
You normally are so sane as well....

I don't much care if Frank Miller is right wing or not, can't say I've noticed but then I haven't looked indepth at his stuff, the fact is that he's a writer of fiction, not allegory or fact. The 300 is fiction, the Persians did not have War Rhinos. If you're intelligent enough to be able to make the connection between historical Persia and modern day Iran you should be intelligent enough to be able to differentiate fact from fiction. You draw that line at War Rhinos. If you can't you should be put down for the benefit of the genepool.

Did I complain about the recent King Arthur movie? Did my Scottish friends complain about it as well, or fucking Braveheart for that matter? No, because we know the difference between fact and fiction. When Miller starts writing peer reviewed History textbooks that claim the Persians used fucking War Rhinos then these people have an issue, not before. The Persians in this film are the bad guys, the bad guys, the villains, get villainised. It's one of the basic conventions of storytelling. You can either accept this or I can post 300 threads showing and proving that since the fall of the Berlin Wall Englishman have been villainised more than any of the Arab nations past, present or future.

Zendetta
14th March 07, 07:03 PM
Iscariot is correct (for once). Every evil white guy has to have a poofy english accent. But that's limeys for you - effiminate and oppressive.

Hey, Villain, remember that time we discussed ethnic stereotypes in media? IIRC, you could not see that the Rich Evil White Dude, a staple of Hong Kong films (not to mention blaxploitation), was exactly that.

Iscariot
14th March 07, 07:06 PM
Iscariot is correct (for once). Every evil white guy has to have a poofy english accent. But that's limeys for you - effiminate and oppressive.

Poofy? Alan Rickman > Bruce Willis.

Zendetta
14th March 07, 07:09 PM
HAAAAAAANNNNSSS!!!

Osiris
14th March 07, 07:23 PM
Guys, quit attributing the elements in question to Miller. HE DIDN'T WRITE THAT. Read the comic.


Did I complain about the recent King Arthur movie? Did my Scottish friends complain about it as well, or fucking Braveheart for that matter? No, because we know the difference between fact and fiction.

I'd like to point out that they came off as HUMAN. Villainous? Sure, but human and at least passably resembling their ethnicities. Why were the Persians so African? Subsaharan at that.


If you're intelligent enough to be able to make the connection between historical Persia and modern day Iran you should be intelligent enough to be able to differentiate fact from fiction.

Its not about fact vs fiction. Propoganda doesn't rely on presenting correct facts or in people taking it at face value. It relies on people internalizing the imagry presented, whether they believe it or not.


Hey, Villain, remember that time we discussed ethnic stereotypes in media? IIRC, you could not see that the Rich Evil White Dude, a staple of Hong Kong films (not to mention blaxploitation), was exactly that.

Don't remember that convo at all.

Anyways, my issue isn't the villinization of the Persians. OF COURSE they're going to be villains. I have two issue here. The first is the dehumanization of the Persians. That wasn't in the comic and it wasn't called for in the film. Its not a movie staple either. Even birth of a nation gave us human villains.

My OTHER issue is the skin color. Dark skin was clearly used to augment the subhuman status of the villains. Now, had they actually been africans, there'd be little issue. However, THEY CAME FROM IRAN. So in taking improbably dehumanizing traits, they also decided to just toss skin color in there right next to claw handed executioner.

My analogy says it all. Would you want the founding of America turned into a tale about viking berserker werewolves? Would that not indicate the filmmakers views on America and whites in general? Or would you really turn around and say "Hey, its based on a book which contained none of the controversial elements.*"? Or maybe, "Hey, thats the native american point of view."? No, I don't think so. It would be racist and obscene slander, just like what was in the movie.

*READ THE COMIC. THAT IS NOT AN EXCUSE AS THAT STUFF IS NOT IN THE COMIC.

Zendetta
14th March 07, 07:40 PM
Your point that fiction is an effective propaganda tool is well taken.

Most of the "persians" in 200 looked north african/ middle eastern/ or especailly Moorish to me - i took it as indicative of the many nations under Xerxes sway.

The subhuman element was played up, for sure.

If a movie portrayed the european colonization of america as a savage viking werewolf attack, it would not be widely criticized as 'racist'. Rather it would be be lauded as a masterpiece by the PC crowd.

Seraphim
14th March 07, 08:29 PM
Arguing about fiction is almost as bad as arguing over the internet...oh wait...

Sirc
14th March 07, 08:45 PM
You are all sooooo gay. There WAS NO PLOT.

Osiris
14th March 07, 09:58 PM
Your point that fiction is an effective propaganda tool is well taken.

Most of the "persians" in 200 looked north african/ middle eastern/ or especailly Moorish to me - i took it as indicative of the many nations under Xerxes sway.

I can see that and almost buy it, but it doesn't sit right in the context of persian portrayal throughout the movie. Look, for example, at the scene where the persian darkens and all you see is his jaundiced eyes.


If a movie portrayed the european colonization of america as a savage viking werewolf attack, it would not be widely criticized as 'racist'. Rather it would be be lauded as a masterpiece by the PC crowd.

And they'd be wrong.

WarPhalange
15th March 07, 12:23 AM
Imagine a revolutionary war movie with the Americans being played by mexican ogres. At some point you'd have to wonder what the fuck kind of point they were trying to make.

LOL that would be hilarious.

Zendetta
15th March 07, 11:46 AM
I can see that and almost buy it, but it doesn't sit right in the context of persian portrayal throughout the movie. Look, for example, at the scene where the persian darkens and all you see is his jaundiced eyes.

Good point. I had forgotten about that scene - and when I saw it it made a strong (and negative) impression. It did strike me as a straight-up, old school "Jigaboo/Sambo" kind of image. Add in his oily voice and the fade-out to his eyes - yeah, honestly, I was kinda shocked. I remember thinking "how would this feel to me if I were a black man?" THanks for reminding me of that scene.

Balance that, however, with the following: the priests were crusty old bastards, but were portrayed as leprous and inhuman monsters. So the subhuman/ dehumanization wasn't limited to the motley brown hordes - although it was obviously much more pronounced.



THe conversation I was referring to revolved around your perception that StarGate had a subtext that disses the accomplishments of African civilization (Whereas I just think it sucks).

Iscariot
15th March 07, 11:49 AM
Having finally got back on the site after it failing for hours.....

1. I didn't attribute anything to Miller, I mentioned that it was based on his work and as such errors should be applied to him on the basis of him writing fiction, not him writing propaganda.

2. King Arthur? I beg to fucking differ, apart from the protagonists I challenge you to name any ethic or cultural group of people that was represented accurately. Did we complain? No, because we recognise that it's a figment of your fucking imagination.

3. Time Warner AOL does not make propaganda. If you can present facts to the contrary, please do so. Film companies are in the business of making money. If people will pay money to see it then they'll invest in it. This is the only reason the film was made. Until you present any evidence to the contrary I invite you to shut the fuck up.

4. The antagonists of that movie do not matter one bit, they are the antagonists, the bad guys. The entire film is about the bad-assness of the Spartans. They could be fighting fucking Martians and it wouldn't matter. It's not like the film makers picked Ian due to their politics.....FACT: Persians invaded the Greek Nation in that time. Interpret that how you will, but Persia invaded another sovereign nation.....just like the US does every other fucking week....

5. Don't point the rape of North America at the Europeans. You lot have a national fucking holiday dedicated to the 'Pilgrim Fathers', the 'First Americans'. Historucal fact, these were the people who weren't even good enough to live in the shitholes of England.

bad credit
15th March 07, 01:23 PM
Is nobody else mad about the potrayal of goatmen as freaky harem-dwellers in this movie?

Shawarma
15th March 07, 01:31 PM
This is really nothing else than a sad indicator of the political state the world is in. Iranians currently feel that the filthy Americans are blowing their nose at them recently with all the saber-rattling and faggy posturing by both sides, they react violently with patriotic fervor to anything they perceive to be an insult. If it had been a movie about a country the Americans are not currently about to bomb, the reaction would most likely not have gotten anywhere near the publicity this has.

I remember all you whiny faggots crying about Kurtlar Vadisi (Turkish movie about eeeevil American GIs and noble heroic Turks) even though none of you had seen it. This is the exact same thing, by whiny Iranian faggots rather than whiny American ones.

Stick
15th March 07, 03:39 PM
Hahahahaha- oh, I fuck'n hate it when Shawarma has a point.

/digs up old avatar

http://www.bullshido.net/gallery/data/553/TitoEats1.jpg

AAAhmed46
15th March 07, 03:46 PM
I love that avatar.

bob
15th March 07, 04:50 PM
Here's an alternative explanation.

The filmmakers, by making the villains inhuman looking monsters, were actually trying to disassociate themselves from portraying any race. If you look at Miller's work, a lot of the bad guys were bumbling, cowardly towel headed stereotypical craven Ahmed's (not our Ahmed). From what I've seen (and I admit I've only seen the trailers so far), those characters are not in the film.

The average Joe wouldn't have even made the connection between the Persian empire of Xerxes and modern day Iran unless it was pointed out to them, or unless they could see a cultural stereotype like the 'towel head'. So make them look like the Uruk Hai. They might well have gotten away with it if the Iranians didn't kick up a fuss.

I admit that it's clumsy and insensitive but that's Hollywood thinking.

Feryk
15th March 07, 05:17 PM
Hollywood sux, the movie rox, and all the rest is just whining.

The fact that we are talking about this online petition is already giving it much more attention than it deserves. Someone is using the film to promote their own agenda.

Go figure.

Zendetta
15th March 07, 06:19 PM
So make them look like the Uruk Hai.

!!!!!

I was willing to cut Peter Jackson some slack over the orcs and Uruk Hai, up until i saw King Kong. Those were some crazy, bloodthirsty, bone-thru-nose, booga-booga savages. I thought: if he makes another movie sterotyping indigenous brown folks like this i'm gonna boycott his shit.

(Full disclosure: I loved both films, and 300, so my boycott is a bluff)

Quikfeet509
15th March 07, 07:45 PM
The Persians might have been presented as inhuman in this movie but they obviously threw the best parties. Fuck fighting all day in a hopeless battle with 300 of my butt-buddies when I could be having a throng of women that are willing to ride anything that walks on two feet.

bob
15th March 07, 09:28 PM
!!!!!

I was willing to cut Peter Jackson some slack over the orcs and Uruk Hai, up until i saw King Kong. Those were some crazy, bloodthirsty, bone-thru-nose, booga-booga savages. I thought: if he makes another movie sterotyping indigenous brown folks like this i'm gonna boycott his shit.

(Full disclosure: I loved both films, and 300, so my boycott is a bluff)

A friend of mine lives in NZ and surfs at a break with a bunch of Maori and Islander guys who played Orcs in the film. He said they loved being cast as the badasses of the film so much they formed a gang with jackets and shirts saying "Uruk-Hai Cohort".

Stick
15th March 07, 11:58 PM
That's awesome.


Now. Seriously guys. Vikings Vs. Indians.

oJNMpWt7Et4

Great clip with a little intro from the director- it's really silly ("he has the techniques of both!"), the director's intro that is-, but the part with the rampaging murderous inhuman vikings, that shit is great.

4R2PM0-ULyo

Also, where was the Politically Correct rage over the offensive portrayal of a neolithic tribal population in The 13th Warrior?

I see how it is!

AAAhmed46
16th March 07, 12:29 AM
RED SAUCE ON PASTA!

Zendetta
16th March 07, 02:20 AM
13th warrior is fucking awesome too, gunterdamerung it!

Osiris
16th March 07, 05:43 AM
Having finally got back on the site after it failing for hours.....

1. I didn't attribute anything to Miller, I mentioned that it was based on his work and as such errors should be applied to him on the basis of him writing fiction, not him writing propaganda.

HE DIDN'T WRITE THAT.


2. King Arthur? I beg to fucking differ, apart from the protagonists I challenge you to name any ethic or cultural group of people that was represented accurately. Did we complain? No, because we recognise that it's a figment of your fucking imagination.

Fuck if I know. They were WHITE and HUMAN. Had they been mutant africans, we would've heard something.


3. Time Warner AOL does not make propaganda. If you can present facts to the contrary, please do so. Film companies are in the business of making money. If people will pay money to see it then they'll invest in it. This is the only reason the film was made. Until you present any evidence to the contrary I invite you to shut the fuck up.

They made American History X.


4. The antagonists of that movie do not matter one bit, they are the antagonists, the bad guys. The entire film is about the bad-assness of the Spartans. They could be fighting fucking Martians and it wouldn't matter. It's not like the film makers picked Ian due to their politics.....

Its their portrayal, not their villain status.


FACT: Persians invaded the Greek Nation in that time. Interpret that how you will, but Persia invaded another sovereign nation.....just like the US does every other fucking week....

Point being?


5. Don't point the rape of North America at the Europeans. You lot have a national fucking holiday dedicated to the 'Pilgrim Fathers', the 'First Americans'. Historucal fact, these were the people who weren't even good enough to live in the shitholes of England.

Whats your point? It would still be retarded if they were Mexican werewolves. Or maybe vampires or something.

Iscariot
16th March 07, 06:08 AM
HE DIDN'T WRITE THAT.
Did he not? Funny, he didn't seem to correct the interviewer in that audio interview.


Fuck if I know. They were WHITE and HUMAN. Had they been mutant africans, we would've heard something.
Shall I bring up Magneto in the X-Men movie then? Seems to imply that mutated super villains are Jewish....


They made American History X.
Anyone with more than 4 fucking brain cells knows who made American History X, and it wasn't the director or the studio....


Its their portrayal, not their villain status.
No, it's really not, status begets portrayal in cinema.


Point being?
The argument that's been put forward by the petition idiots about Persia being a peaceful nation is provably wrong.


Whats your point? It would still be retarded if they were Mexican werewolves. Or maybe vampires or something.
No it wouldn't fucking be retarded. It's a film, it's fiction supposed to be entertaining. If you want truth go watch a documentary or read a book. Suspension of disbelief is in effect, provided a film entertains and does not breach the disbelief it's fine. The problem is when people start to accept the cinematic portrayal as fact. Personally I don't know anyone so stupid....

Osiris
16th March 07, 06:26 AM
Did he not? Funny, he didn't seem to correct the interviewer in that audio interview.

http://imdb.com/title/tt0416449/fullcredits#writers

Having read the graphic novel, I can assure you, THATS NOT WHAT MILLER WROTE.


Shall I bring up Magneto in the X-Men movie then? Seems to imply that mutated super villains are Jewish....

I won't respond to disengenuous arguments.


No, it's really not, status begets portrayal in cinema.

No it doesn't. Training Day vs Birth of a Nation.


The argument that's been put forward by the petition idiots about Persia being a peaceful nation is provably wrong.

No shit. That has nothing to do with any point I'm making.


The problem is when people start to accept the cinematic portrayal as fact. Personally I don't know anyone so stupid....

Rap music puts politicians, black kids, white kids, and entertainers all at various levels of dumbass cause none of them seem to remember that the shit isn't real. Then you've got chinese kung fu movies. How many people ACTUALLY figure asians know kung fu? Quite a few have that idea. Shit, how many people think kung fu guys cna chi blast your ass across a room?

The ideas presented stick, no matter how retarded, ESPECIALLY when passed off as "just entertainment".

Iscariot
16th March 07, 06:39 AM
http://imdb.com/title/tt0416449/fullcredits#writers

Having read the graphic novel, I can assure you, THATS NOT WHAT MILLER WROTE.
Haven't read it. Will concede the point, it's not exactly important anyway.


I won't respond to disengenuous arguments.
Fact, you're saying the portrayal of the Persians as subhuman mutants who do weird and bad things is why the morons are revolting. Fact, X-Men shows the main villain as Jewish, with mutant powers who advocates genocide.


No it doesn't. Training Day vs Birth of a Nation.
Failure of analogy in a fundamental way. Both films were made at completely different historical times with completely different attitudes towards race AND they are set in times with completely different racial attitudes. It's like comparing Braveheart to Trainspotting for the portrayal of the Scottish.


No shit. That has nothing to do with any point I'm making.
You asked why, I told you.


Rap music puts politicians, black kids, white kids, and entertainers all at various levels of dumbass cause none of them seem to remember that the shit isn't real. Then you've got chinese kung fu movies. How many people ACTUALLY figure asians know kung fu? Quite a few have that idea. Shit, how many people think kung fu guys cna chi blast your ass across a room?

The ideas presented stick, no matter how retarded, ESPECIALLY when passed off as "just entertainment".
Fuck off, stop blaming this shit of film makers. If your population is stupid and/or apathetic enough to blithely accept a form of entertainment as historical record then it's a serious fucking problem and your society that needs to be looked at, not the entertainment industry.

DAYoung
16th March 07, 06:51 AM
Villain, was Miller's graphic novel a deliberate portrayal of contemporary Iran?

If yes, then it's a problem.

If not, then things get complicated.

First, Iran is not Persia. Even if Iran wasn't a Muslim nation-state (a big 'if'), it's have about as much relationship to the Persian Empire as today's Greeks to to Pericles' Athens or Leonidas' Sparta. That is to say, very little. For today's Persians (e.g. Zoroastrians) to be nationalistic about 2500 year-old empire is quite a stretch.

Second, while rap music is about contemporary blacks, and claims frequently to 'keep it real' (i.e. authenticity is essential to its selling power), 300 makes no claims to truth about any contemporary peoples. It's founded on fairly enduring messages about heroism and brotherhood, not specific contemporary antagonism with any racial group.

I share your doubts about misinformation (as part of my doctorate, I criticized television shows for misrepresenting Persians and Greeks), but I think 300 isn't in the same league as gangsta rap or anti-Iran government propaganda.

mrblackmagic
16th March 07, 07:44 AM
Considering when he wrote the story, Image comics (or as Allen, the old guy at my comic shop, said "new heroes with fucking piercings and bad fucking attitudes) just got off the ground. I would assume he took a creative license to make historical figures approachable (and "cool") to a generation x audience.

Which Xerxes works better today?

http://www.athensmarathon.com/marathon/images/xerxes.jpg

or

http://www.peplums.info/images/41troisc/41e.jpg

Osiris
16th March 07, 08:02 AM
Villain, was Miller's graphic novel a deliberate portrayal of contemporary Iran?

We're not discussing the content of the graphic novel. The graphic novel is more focused on the 300 and doesn't present the persian freak show that the movie does.


Fact, you're saying the portrayal of the Persians as subhuman mutants who do weird and bad things is why the morons are revolting. Fact, X-Men shows the main villain as Jewish, with mutant powers who advocates genocide.

A. The heroes are mutants too and kitty pride is jewish.
B. Magneto kinda has a point. His fears are justified at several points in the series, even if his actions are not. He also has the respect of the heroes and extends the same respect to them at some points.
C. In the context of the character history, Magneto has shown to be downright heroic.


Failure of analogy in a fundamental way. Both films were made at completely different historical times with completely different attitudes towards race AND they are set in times with completely different racial attitudes. It's like comparing Braveheart to Trainspotting for the portrayal of the Scottish.

The comparison works fine. The fact that the people responsible for BOAN were actual racists only works to aid my point. There's villainy and then there's THAT.


Second, while rap music is about contemporary blacks, and claims frequently to 'keep it real' (i.e. authenticity is essential to its selling power), 300 makes no claims to truth about any contemporary peoples. It's founded on fairly enduring messages about heroism and brotherhood, not specific contemporary antagonism with any racial group.

I agree with the gangsta rap thing. My point is however, that people are dumbasses and will believe anything.

As far as the basis of the movie, no I don't think that the movie is FOUNDED on racist ideology, but the dark skin/evil connection is hardly subtle. When further linked to deformity and mutation, its kind of hard to ignore.

Osiris
16th March 07, 08:05 AM
As long as we're discussing X Men, thats fucking prime example #1 of an innocuous film with a clear message when looked at for what it is. Are there clear racial messages in the film? YES. Just not the one you present.

billy sol hurok
16th March 07, 08:54 AM
Haven't read the comi -- er, graphic novel, haven't seen the film, haven't read the Dell paperback.

But I know where The Villian is coming from.

http://www.leninimports.com/nosferatu_gallery_5.jpg

Zendetta
16th March 07, 11:37 AM
Speaking of which: Iscariot, have you even seen the bloody thing yet?

DAYoung
16th March 07, 03:43 PM
We're not discussing the content of the graphic novel. The graphic novel is more focused on the 300 and doesn't present the persian freak show that the movie does.

OK. Fair enough.


I agree with the gangsta rap thing. My point is however, that people are dumbasses and will believe anything.

As far as the basis of the movie, no I don't think that the movie is FOUNDED on racist ideology, but the dark skin/evil connection is hardly subtle. When further linked to deformity and mutation, its kind of hard to ignore.

But Blacks are evil. I mean, you're a Villain.

AAAhmed46
16th March 07, 05:00 PM
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

It's Xerxes!


RED SAUCE ON PASTA!!!!!!!

frumpleswift
16th March 07, 05:32 PM
I just think that the producers 300 need to be Spartanized. Partially because the movie sucked ass, but moreso because I wanted to use an ancient greek euphamism for buggery.

OZZ
16th March 07, 05:41 PM
Just went to see a matinee showing of this today..
Fucking awesome!! The rare type of movie I would pay to see four or five times in the theatre.
Magnificent, 5 stars!!

AAAhmed46
17th March 07, 12:50 AM
Im tired of people going OMG T3H SPARTANS WERE BADASSS!

Were people not aware of them before this movie?




Kratos owns all the 300.

He's freaking awsome


Kratos for the win.



RED SAUCE ON PASTA!!!!!!!!!!!

Steve
17th March 07, 01:00 AM
RED SAUCE ON PASTA!!!!!!!!!!!

You've said this twice now.

This movie made you hate Italians?

SpringHeeledJack
17th March 07, 01:03 AM
Meh. I have always thought the Spartans were pretty badass, but They were a little too fascist for me. I like the Athenians better. It's widely believed that Themistocles was the mastermind behind Thermopalae, and he is who defeated the Persians by way of his navy after the 300 were dead and gone.

AAAhmed46
17th March 07, 01:09 AM
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k253/98S10Dude/300pasta.gif

Osiris
17th March 07, 03:04 AM
Why is that funny?

WarPhalange
17th March 07, 01:18 PM
Because he's actually saying something else.

OZZ
17th March 07, 02:21 PM
Meh. I have always thought the Spartans were pretty badass, but They were a little too fascist for me. I like the Athenians better. It's widely believed that Themistocles was the mastermind behind Thermopalae, and he is who defeated the Persians by way of his navy after the 300 were dead and gone.

You like those 'boy lovers and philosophers' better?lol
Hey, I'm a philosopher myself so I am partial to the Athenians as well. And you are right the Spartans were pretty fascist. When I learned about them in grade school history I always remembered the famous adage "Come back with your shield or on it.", because their shields were so big and heavy you would have to throw it down in order to retreat...
The movie is a mixture of fantasy and history, its not meant to be 100% historically accurate. People need to lighten up and just enjoy it for what it is. Its like one big Frazetta painting in motion. I really enjoyed it.
Hell, my wife was pissed I went to see it without her, she's been looking forward to it for months. Guess I better take her next weekend if I want to get fed.

DAYoung
17th March 07, 04:51 PM
Athens: democracy, tragedy, philosophy, architecture, ceramics, painting.

Sparta: war, songs about war, paintings of war, oligarchy.

Osiris
17th March 07, 04:56 PM
Athens: Pussies.
Sparta: Fucking awesome.

Fixed it.

MaverickZ
17th March 07, 04:57 PM
dude.. helllooooooo pederasty?

MaverickZ
17th March 07, 04:59 PM
Spartan women would shave their head on their wedding nights. I forgot why though.
http://www.twitchfilm.net/pics/Natalie-Portman.jpg

Zendetta
17th March 07, 05:03 PM
It was closely related to why they had to dress in men's attire on their wedding night...

DAYoung
17th March 07, 07:04 PM
Fixed it.

Pfft.

Beaten by Thebes, who were crushed by Alexander (they hadn't read Machiavelli).

polishillusion
17th March 07, 08:10 PM
You know, this is a movie based of a Frank Miller book. Whoever uses Frank Miller as Ancient History is stupid, but equally stupid.

Steve
17th March 07, 10:57 PM
Just got back from seeing it.

I must have been getting my hopes up with all this talk about the movie. Wasn't overly impressed with it. It was good, but I wish that I had gone to a matinee rather than paying full price.

Now that I've seen it, it really makes me think that the Persians that are complaining are sure full of themselves. It was just a movie, I didn't read anything into it (even after reading about all the 'hidden' meanings that were chatted about here).

Kiko
18th March 07, 08:14 AM
Watched "Last Stand of the 300" on the History Channel last night. I'm sure it'll be rebroadcast. Interesting stuff that I'd forgotten about. Of course it put me in the mood for a couple episodes of their "Barbarians" series, too.

billy sol hurok
18th March 07, 08:22 AM
Watched "Last Stand of the 300" on the History Channel last night. I'm sure it'll be rebroadcast. Interesting stuff that I'd forgotten about.

Yes, I caught it last weekend. Reckon it'll be in high rotation for the next month or two. Can't vouch for its accuracy, but enjoyed the weapons/tactics discussion very much.

Kiko
18th March 07, 08:28 AM
I'm constantly amazed that so many supposedly great military leaders fell for some really basic tactical traps. Then again, they didn't have an overhead interactive map....

danno
18th March 07, 09:58 AM
i'm not surprised that some people in the middle east have been offended, and i'm not surprised that some people in the west are offended that they are offended. this shit happens all the time nowadays.

my 2 cents - i know many people who hate muslims. their voices shake when they talk about them, their hatred is so strong. i don't mean a few people here and there, i mean most people i meet. i am certain that when they see this film, it will do nothing but reinforce their views, or in the least make them nod their heads in agreement. and whether or not the makers of the film had any intention of doing this.

does the film mention at any point that the spartans could be professional soldiers because they had basically enslaved the locals who would take care of the neccessities like farming?

Osiris
18th March 07, 01:06 PM
You know, this is a movie based of a Frank Miller book. Whoever uses Frank Miller as Ancient History is stupid, but equally stupid.

SHUT THE FUCK UP. None of the points of contention, except for the depiction of Xerxes himself, are present in the graphic novel. Read it before referencing it.

Stick
18th March 07, 02:41 PM
does the film mention at any point that the spartans could be professional soldiers because they had basically enslaved the locals who would take care of the neccessities like farming?

The film does mention that weak or sickly children are hurled onto the side of the mountain and left to die. While the whole story is "glory, glory, fucking slaughter", that this is not the sort of soceity you'd want to live in is well and truly there to be seen.

Zendetta
18th March 07, 02:50 PM
SHUT THE FUCK UP. None of the points of contention, except for the depiction of Xerxes himself, are present in the graphic novel. Read it before referencing it.

As per our earlier discussion, in the graphic novel Xerxes looks alot more Black African than he does in the movie.

Of course, everyone looks freaky and stylized in Miller's stuff.



(I met his brother one time. I had a bokken and this guy was like "My brother does comics. Have you ever read Ronin?")

Osiris
18th March 07, 03:00 PM
Right, but thats ONE aspect of it. To seriously hop into this discussion with "But Miller..." is retarded when it doesn't even scratch the surface of what we're talking about. Its a dumb argument anyways. All it does is pass the buck, not make anything acceptable.

Ze German
18th March 07, 05:30 PM
Well this movie really sucked the big one. Just like Miller's comic by the way. Frank Miller is highly overrated IMHO. I remember him saying in an interview a couple of years back that he would never sell his ideas to anyone. Now there's a goddamn Marv action figure for chrissakes. So Villain wins this thread.

http://www.fufufrauenwahl.com/F_images/cjcj/spartanize.jpg

AAAhmed46
18th March 07, 11:02 PM
Note that Spartans are pretty overrated. Yeah, they were definitely the best hoplites in Greece for awhile, but they certainly did retreat and surrender just like every other Greek, and they were beaten often by both Persians (Agesilaus II's invasion of Ionia) and other Greeks (numerous times by Athenians, Thebans, Argives, etc.). Note that they did not even put a fight when the Macedonians conquered Greece and took away at least as many freedoms as they would have lost under the Achaemenids. When the Spartans finally did get up to rebellion when the main Macedonian army was deep in Persia with Alexander (accepting Persian funds and ships to do so), they got absolutely crushed.

AAAhmed46
18th March 07, 11:20 PM
Fixed it.


The Athenians beat the Spartans at Pylos on both land and sea, which led directly to the surrender at Sphacteria. The Athenians also beat the Spartans at Syme, then defeated both Spartans and Persians on land and sea at Cyzicus. Ckrisz,

Kungfoolss
19th March 07, 02:38 AM
Come on guys, get the word out.

We need 300 signatures!

I saw the movie last night. Pretty cool, though they did go overboard with making the persian army look like 'Lord of the Ring' bad guys.

danno
19th March 07, 01:20 PM
for your viewing pleasure:

IQG18NYOk-c

Seraphim
19th March 07, 01:29 PM
Note that Spartans are pretty overrated. Yeah, they were definitely the best hoplites in Greece for awhile, but they certainly did retreat and surrender just like every other Greek, and they were beaten often by both Persians (Agesilaus II's invasion of Ionia) and other Greeks (numerous times by Athenians, Thebans, Argives, etc.). Note that they did not even put a fight when the Macedonians conquered Greece and took away at least as many freedoms as they would have lost under the Achaemenids. When the Spartans finally did get up to rebellion when the main Macedonian army was deep in Persia with Alexander (accepting Persian funds and ships to do so), they got absolutely crushed.


Look at AAAhmed..bringing history into this. How dare you sir :P

+rep

Osiris
19th March 07, 02:23 PM
I'm really glad to see that racism is alive and well. LOL

Stick
19th March 07, 02:52 PM
for your viewing pleasure:



There aren't enough LOLs in the world to express my amusement.

The "Persian" community being upset over how it is portrayed in any media is frankly hypocritical horse shit worthy of little more than contempt.

Video from Iranian TV showing Jews killing Christian children to get their blood for their evil, Jewy holidays. (http://pmw.org.il/asx/PMW_ShatatMaza.asx)

Source with tons more video of the portrayal of Jews in Arab media (including Iran- the poor persecuted Persians). (http://www.teachkidspeace.org/video.php)

Iranian TV outrage- IN ENGLISH! (http://www.memritv.org/Transcript.asp?P1=1401) The commentary here is fucking priceless; who here got the impression from this film that the Spartans were ever portrayed as "peace lovers"? Anyone? No? Right.

Also, this is all a ZIONIST LIE!

Source = MEMRItv, always good for a despairing shake of the head at the state of affairs in the Middle East and central Asia. (http://www.memritv.org/#)

Seraphim
19th March 07, 03:47 PM
I'm really glad to see that racism is alive and well. LOL
A world without racism would be hard to imagine. People make snap decisions based solely on apperance everytime they look at someone. Not doing so would be even more fucked up.

I'm willing to bet 7/10 people wouldn't know where the ancient Persian empire was..or what nations occupy it today. Iran just needs a reason to bitch and get attention like a whore. The fact that they give a shit is hilarious. The movie was basically ficton. Anyone who sees that movie and thinks:

"Holy fuck! Ancient persians where polydatcly with claws and fucking fangs yo. They had bad ass gargolye mask and 2 ninja swords. FUCK YEAH"

...needs to get a boot up their ass.

It's a fucking movie. It is not fucking history.

danno
19th March 07, 03:50 PM
people like the guy in the video don't bother me so much. he's just a guy expressing his opinion. when you have the leader of a country who sees a film as a direct and devastating attack i get a little more concerned.

but like i said before it isn't surprising considering the state of affairs.

Seraphim
19th March 07, 03:53 PM
but like i said before it isn't surprising considering the state of affairs.

Agreed.

**Looks around.. THIS IS SPARTAAAAAA!

Osiris
19th March 07, 03:58 PM
Here's the thing though. We all know its fiction. However, fiction has proven to be a powerful tool in forming opinions. Its an issue of associating a group of people with an idea.

Seraphim
19th March 07, 04:05 PM
Here's the thing though. We all know its fiction. However, fiction has proven to be a powerful tool in forming opinions. Its an issue of associating a group of people with an idea.


I will agree to that ficton can form opinions..mostly in the ignorant or stupid.

Stick
19th March 07, 04:05 PM
The Daily Show take on things.

rjHE3Z91jPI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjHE3Z91jPI

danno
19th March 07, 04:14 PM
A world without racism would be hard to imagine. People make snap decisions based solely on apperance everytime they look at someone. Not doing so would be even more fucked up.

I'm willing to bet 7/10 people wouldn't know where the ancient Persian empire was..or what nations occupy it today. Iran just needs a reason to bitch and get attention like a whore. The fact that they give a shit is hilarious. The movie was basically ficton. Anyone who sees that movie and thinks:

"Holy fuck! Ancient persians where polydatcly with claws and fucking fangs yo. They had bad ass gargolye mask and 2 ninja swords. FUCK YEAH"

...needs to get a boot up their ass.

It's a fucking movie. It is not fucking history.

i think you're over-estimating the average person. i reckon a pretty significant number of people will walk away thinking they have learnt a little bit about history.

sure, many will realise that a bit of artistic license has been taken. but it's obviously based on an historical event. you see, without researching some history themselves, people will not know EXACTLY where the fact starts and the fiction ends.

does it matter? is it harmful? dunno.

Stick
19th March 07, 04:15 PM
Here's the thing though. We all know its fiction. However, fiction has proven to be a powerful tool in forming opinions. Its an issue of associating a group of people with an idea.

And I am a scheming opressor of all non-Caucasians.

A question, Os, would you give half as much a care about the "Persian" position if so many of the officers hadn't been black?

Kiko
19th March 07, 04:20 PM
If anyone can learn 'polydactyl' from a movie these days, whether it's 300 or whatever, they've gotten their money's worth and I salute the writers!

Stick
19th March 07, 04:26 PM
V and Cheguavera find the Persian position silly

FN6l7EkfXJs

I can barely understand this guy through the voice filter, it took some work. I just found the idea of V with a Che poster putting this down highly amusing.

"Irish are troublemakers, by the way."

danno
19th March 07, 04:28 PM
The Daily Show take on things.

awesome.

Stick
19th March 07, 04:30 PM
Yeah, the bit with Dr. Strangelove was great.

danno
19th March 07, 04:33 PM
yep. simultaneously discredits the iranian position and takes a stab at american foreign policy. well played sir, well played.

Osiris
19th March 07, 04:45 PM
I will agree to that ficton can form opinions..mostly in the ignorant or stupid.

Regardless, its been an effective technique for ages. Birth of a Nation lead to a KKK revival.


A question, Os, would you give half as much a care about the "Persian" position if so many of the officers hadn't been black?

I don't support the "persian position". My points are my own. About the time the guy blended in with the black screen leaving only his jaundiced eyes, I was like "hey, wtf?". If thats not a sinister skin based image, what is? Its racism, plain and simple. The irony here is that people who think they know their history too well to be affected by this film and that its NOT racist at all DON'T KNOW THEIR HISTORY. This type of film and imagery has been used to demonize people of color all over the world. And it sticks. Killer voodoo cults, white Egyptians, mummies, rampaging cannibals, the mystical indians, etc. have all stuck in our popular culture to the point where they've become accepted, at least in part, as fact, or at least possibilities.

danno
19th March 07, 04:58 PM
whether or not the villain is right or wrong about this case in particular, he is correct about the effect art has on society.

if you believe that fiction can have no influence simply because it is fiction, you are simply dead wrong.

the more naive people are about it, the more powerfully it can influence them. and when you make fiction out of fact as this film has, you're playing with reality even more.

at the moment though i just wish iran would shut the fuck up...

Seraphim
19th March 07, 05:03 PM
If anyone can learn 'polydactyl' from a movie these days, whether it's 300 or whatever, they've gotten their money's worth and I salute the writers!


I spelled that wrong didn't I? *Checks dictionary.com

Nope I pulled that one off.

I was guessing that's what the Immortals where. There was a scene where their general held up his hand to halt the formation, and he had this jutting claw on the end of his fist.

This makes me think of polydactyl cats..this thread needs moar kittenz.

Stick
19th March 07, 05:18 PM
I don't support the "persian position". My points are my own. About the time the guy blended in with the black screen leaving only his jaundiced eyes, I was like "hey, wtf?". If thats not a sinister skin based image, what is? Its racism, plain and simple. The irony here is that people who think they know their history too well to be affected by this film and that its NOT racist at all DON'T KNOW THEIR HISTORY. This type of film and imagery has been used to demonize people of color all over the world. And it sticks. Killer voodoo cults, white Egyptians, mummies, rampaging cannibals, the mystical indians, etc. have all stuck in our popular culture to the point where they've become accepted, at least in part, as fact, or at least possibilities.

I'll admit that image was pretty "early cinema"; if that particular agent of Xerxe had been white and it faded to black leving his eyes, how would you feel?

Osiris
19th March 07, 05:36 PM
if that particular agent of Xerxe had been white and it faded to black leving his eyes, how would you feel?

It simply wouldn't have worked that way at all.

Seraphim
19th March 07, 06:25 PM
We should talk about the Oracle. I think we could all agree on the Oracle..

AAAhmed46
19th March 07, 06:38 PM
There aren't enough LOLs in the world to express my amusement.

The "Persian" community being upset over how it is portrayed in any media is frankly hypocritical horse shit worthy of little more than contempt.

Video from Iranian TV showing Jews killing Christian children to get their blood for their evil, Jewy holidays. (http://pmw.org.il/asx/PMW_ShatatMaza.asx)

Source with tons more video of the portrayal of Jews in Arab media (including Iran- the poor persecuted Persians). (http://www.teachkidspeace.org/video.php)

Iranian TV outrage- IN ENGLISH! (http://www.memritv.org/Transcript.asp?P1=1401) The commentary here is fucking priceless; who here got the impression from this film that the Spartans were ever portrayed as "peace lovers"? Anyone? No? Right.

Also, this is all a ZIONIST LIE!

Source = MEMRItv, always good for a despairing shake of the head at the state of affairs in the Middle East and central Asia. (http://www.memritv.org/#)


Come on it's IRAN.

But just because they act like jerkoffs, doesn't mean we should.

Though yes, he should have mentioned Iranian hypocracy.

AAAhmed46
19th March 07, 06:38 PM
We should talk about the Oracle. I think we could all agree on the Oracle..


Was she hot?

Osiris
19th March 07, 06:40 PM
We should talk about the Oracle. I think we could all agree on the Oracle.

No room for argument there.

Kiko
19th March 07, 07:42 PM
"Dear Mum,
Just saw 300. Loved it! All this hoo-hah about the bad guys with extra toes makes no sense to me....

http://z.about.com/d/cats/1/0/y/u/riley.jpg

Stick
19th March 07, 08:23 PM
That is great.

+rep

Question!
19th March 07, 11:10 PM
Ahhhhh, the Oracle.....

Yiktin Voxbane
20th March 07, 02:08 AM
You must spread 300 Reputation around before giving it to Kiko again.

Dagon Akujin
21st March 07, 12:06 AM
Was she hot?

Skip ahead to 17:00. Stop at 18:10.


Click here. (http://www.tv-links.co.uk/player2/flvplayer.swf?url=http://ll-previews.veoh.com/previews/get.jsp?fileHash=09f8d0f9a49246b93d066ce25a17a5f33 9b39b07)

From 300 Higher Quality: Full Movie (http://tv-links.co.uk/show.do/4/386)

Dagon Akujin

P.S. And the answer is yes... YES! EW!

Ze German
21st March 07, 01:35 PM
I'm not sure if this (http://www.thestar.com/article/190493) article is known here. But it could be of interest considering the direction of this thread.
It's from the Toronto Star and discusses 300.

WarPhalange
21st March 07, 04:41 PM
Ok ok... I change my view from "It's just a movie. Deal with it." to "It's just a shitty movie. Deal with it."

DAYoung
21st March 07, 04:49 PM
I enjoyed it thoroughly.

If my review gets published, I'll link to it here.

OZZ
23rd March 07, 08:26 AM
I am taking the wife to go see it today, this will be my second viewing..

Favorite line : "TRAITOR!!"

What a cock that guy was..I'm so glad he gets killed.

WarPhalange
23rd March 07, 01:09 PM
http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/6/63/Dineinhell.jpg

Neildo
23rd March 07, 04:04 PM
Dude, that rules.

DAYoung
23rd March 07, 04:24 PM
Poop Loops wins my hot gates.

Scrapper
26th March 07, 08:38 AM
What makes me sad is that so many people can't just watch and enjoy a fucking movie.

It's not a documentary.

It's not history.

It's not racist.

It has no agenda.

It's a guy movie about being a badass. With healthy heapings of self-sacrifice and "death before dishonor."

It was fun and entertaining. I cannot believe how hard some people are working to find a "hidden" meaning in what is essentially war porn.

WarPhalange
26th March 07, 08:44 AM
You can make a movie about about being badass without getting your facts completely ass-backwards for the sake of plot.

Or maybe I should make a movie about WW2 where Hitler is actually a 3-headed dragon, all the European countries cower in fear, Japan is actually under the dark influence of Hitler an his minions, Hitler wants to summon Chaos Incarnate by sacraficing the blood of 666 x 10^6 Jews and The USA realizes his plot and sends troops to pre-emptively strike Germany. Because American Stands for Freedom.

EDIT: Also, the main character, who is a descendant of a man healed by Jesus, would have a huge fucking underbite and yell a lot.

Scrapper
26th March 07, 09:04 AM
You can make a movie about about being badass without getting your facts completely ass-backwards for the sake of plot.

Or maybe I should make a movie about WW2 where Hitler is actually a 3-headed dragon, all the European countries cower in fear, Japan is actually under the dark influence of Hitler an his minions, Hitler wants to summon Chaos Incarnate by sacraficing the blood of 666 x 10^6 Jews and The USA realizes his plot and sends troops to pre-emptively strike Germany. Because American Stands for Freedom.

EDIT: Also, the main character, who is a descendant of a man healed by Jesus, would have a huge fucking underbite and yell a lot.



I'm not sure what your point is.

If you wanted to make that movie, what would be the problem?

Fuck, I'd go see it.

mrblackmagic
26th March 07, 09:40 AM
In a movie that heavily romanticized, do the facts really matter?

danno
26th March 07, 10:05 AM
What makes me sad is that so many people can't just watch and enjoy a fucking movie.

It's not a documentary.

It's not history.

It's not racist.

It has no agenda.

It's a guy movie about being a badass. With healthy heapings of self-sacrifice and "death before dishonor."

It was fun and entertaining. I cannot believe how hard some people are working to find a "hidden" meaning in what is essentially war porn.

nothing is "hidden" here. the movie clearly gives us the impression that persians were super evil and spartans were super good. not much else there apart from a few old cliches put together in a simple, hard, testosterone drenched ream of manliness.

it's definately not accurate history, but it makes many references to history. people who don't know better are going to take it as more or less accurate if they haven't read the history, and if you don't think this is possible then i think you greatly over-estimate the average person. at the same time, the descendants of those who are represented as evil in the film are going to be offended. we should have expected that. especially when you take the volatile climate in the middle east into consideration.

whether all this is harmful or not is very hard to say i think. probably not worth worrying too much about. i doubt that this movie will make relations between the west and middle east any worse. it's about as bad as it gets. i know plenty of people who would happily vote to annihilate the entire middle east with nuclear weapons if they were given the choice.

but at the end of the day, if you think that a film can't change people's perception of reality simply because it's a film, you're incredibly naive.

danno
26th March 07, 10:07 AM
I'm not sure what your point is.

If you wanted to make that movie, what would be the problem?

Fuck, I'd go see it.

what about a film from the middle east where america is portrayed as an army of satan? would you go see that and be so nonchalant?

Stick
26th March 07, 10:17 AM
what about a film from the middle east where america is portrayed as an army of satan? would you go see that and be so nonchalant?

I saw that movie, needless to say I gave it one rotten tomatoe...

And in all seriousness guys, remember, soon enough we'll have vikings vs. indians.

MaverickZ
26th March 07, 10:28 AM
You can make a movie about about being badass without getting your facts completely ass-backwards for the sake of plot.

Or maybe I should make a movie about WW2 where Hitler is actually a 3-headed dragon, all the European countries cower in fear, Japan is actually under the dark influence of Hitler an his minions, Hitler wants to summon Chaos Incarnate by sacraficing the blood of 666 x 10^6 Jews and The USA realizes his plot and sends troops to pre-emptively strike Germany. Because American Stands for Freedom.

EDIT: Also, the main character, who is a descendant of a man healed by Jesus, would have a huge fucking underbite and yell a lot.
I see you've played both Wolfenstein3D and Mortyr.

Scrapper
26th March 07, 10:57 AM
Don't you think it's alittle silly to hold movie makers responsible for the stupidity of the American viewing public?

Should all new movies get filtered through a left-wing thoughtcrime detector before release?

Seriously...if I really thought there was a political statement in the movie...I'd hold them responsible for it. It's just not there with this one though.

It's like saying "Independence Day" is anti-immigration because they kill aliens. Or it's xenophobic because the aliens were portayed as evil. You can play "six degrees of PC" with anything to get it where you want, but at some point you re just being silly.

danno
26th March 07, 10:58 AM
And in all seriousness guys, remember, soon enough we'll have vikings vs. indians.

oh god, i can't wait to see that.

danno
26th March 07, 11:19 AM
Don't you think it's alittle silly to hold movie makers responsible for the stupidity of the American viewing public?

i agree. and not just americans, i'm expecting the same from australians.


Should all new movies get filtered through a left-wing thoughtcrime detector before release?

i'd like to think that my views on the persuasive power of art come from studying art and film at university.

and no, films should not be "filtered". imo what the artist decides to express is up to the artist and should not be censored.


Seriously...if I really thought there was a political statement in the movie...I'd hold them responsible for it. It's just not there with this one though.

i don't think they are trying to do anything but sell a lot of tickets. but they are playing on our emotional perception of persians (and ancient greeks, who we are expected to identify with) to do it. the middle east holds a lot of mystery and fear for us. in this film the persians are almost magical, which to me is more or less how they appear in our minds!

for the record i don't think this film should be censored at all. i've watched half of it, will watch the rest in a minute.


It's like saying "Independence Day" is anti-immigration because they kill aliens. Or it's xenophobic because the aliens were portayed as evil. You can play "six degrees of PC" with anything to get it where you want, but at some point you re just being silly.

that movie is anti anything which invades. it rouses patriotism, gives you the feeling that america can beat anything that tries to defeat it. it was popular because people love that feeling. i mean, it's called "independence day". pretty obvious really.

danno
26th March 07, 11:59 AM
just watched the last half hour of it. a very dubya-ish speech by the queen of sparta near the end.

and why do the dirty slimy arsehole characters in american films so often have british accents? my father is british. i'm deeply offended.

THIS IS CAKE TOWN!

btw my father is actually british.

mrblackmagic
26th March 07, 12:48 PM
Why the British? Priggish, dispassionate, and well-spoken. Perfect villians.

Zendetta
26th March 07, 12:48 PM
and why do the dirty slimy arsehole characters in american films so often have british accents? my father is british. i'm deeply offended.


LOL. Yeah, thats a major cultural quirk. Villains with stuffy pommy accents are a staple. It generally compliments our anti-intellectual elements and the implied notion that Europeans are classier, but much more evil and effete than us red-blooded yanks.

The sterotype is even worse in Hong Kong films. Evil Rich White Guy is behind everything bad.

MaverickZ
26th March 07, 12:51 PM
just watched the last half hour of it. a very dubya-ish speech by the queen of sparta near the end.
You don't actually think any of the "dubya" stuff is original do you? That shit is hundreds of years old.

Zendetta
26th March 07, 12:58 PM
BTW - to all of you PC whiners:

"Us vs Them"
"Gawd is on Our Side"
and "Everybody Knows those Other Guys are Fags/Heathens/Ain't Right"

are some of the oldest mammalian-pack games around.

danno
26th March 07, 01:22 PM
You don't actually think any of the "dubya" stuff is original do you?

of course not! bush's speeches are straight out of a B-grade movie.


That shit is hundreds of years old.

definately, but i thought that her speech had a very american flavour :gwbdance:

edit - probably cos it was made in america, duh.

danno
26th March 07, 01:45 PM
LOL. Yeah, thats a major cultural quirk. Villains with stuffy pommy accents are a staple. It generally compliments our anti-intellectual elements and the implied notion that Europeans are classier, but much more evil and effete than us red-blooded yanks.

hehe yeah i got that impression. we have our own prejudices about the poms, being a colony of theirs and so on. a common saying is "whinging pom".

but anyways, we see with this example that our beliefs pop up in our art - people say that it's just a film so it doesn't mean anything - but zendetta has been able to explain the real reason that the slimy guy in a movie had a british accent. it's more than fiction, it's an expression of our beliefs, how the world appears in our heads.

the fact that 300 is popular shows that at least some of the major ideas really ring a bell in our collective mind. in my opinion it is more to do with the heroism, etc of the lead characters, who fight against a generic enemy. it probably could have been aliens or vikings or whatever and it would have been just as popular. but the middle eastern element is very potent too. we can't pretend that there is no association with modern events in our minds.

Zendetta
26th March 07, 02:14 PM
I hear 300 is not being very well recieved in Europe.

Its either because Europeans are more morally sophisticated, drawn to nuanced characters, and turned off by Manichean good vs evil morality plays.

Or because they are awash in a post-modern sea of moral relativism and cultural decadence, and thus cannot see the simple fact that some things are just plain wrong.

Take 'yer pick.


PS - I lived in Ozz for a bit. Thats where I got "pommy" from. Over here I calls 'em "Limeys".

Shawarma
26th March 07, 02:21 PM
I'm not certain that's true at all. The notion that your average European is more calchared and soophestemakated than your average yank is bunk, IMO, and the Europeans would just go to see musclebound dudes swing swords at each others faces without giving a second thought to what it actually depicted. There's a lot of Europe it hasn't arrived in yet, so wait a while to see more reviews.

Zendetta
26th March 07, 03:10 PM
I heard that urbane city dwellers in Germany were walking out.

And, hey, its not like the Germans have had issues with militaristic totalitarian propaganda before...

WarPhalange
26th March 07, 04:30 PM
I'm not sure what your point is.

If you wanted to make that movie, what would be the problem?

Fuck, I'd go see it.

My point is Frank Miller is a hack, because I came up with that (without having played Mortyr, but yes on the Wolfenstein) on the fly.

Also, imagine for a second that you're not American.

And, imagine that I wrote that there is a scene in the movie where the hero gives a big speech about freedom, and right afterwards orders his [black] slaves to get his personal tank ready for battle.

DAYoung
26th March 07, 04:57 PM
Danno wins the thread.

Stick
26th March 07, 05:01 PM
No, not really.

Iscariot
26th March 07, 05:14 PM
I hear 300 is not being very well recieved in Europe.

Its either because Europeans are more morally sophisticated, drawn to nuanced characters, and turned off by Manichean good vs evil morality plays.

Or because they are awash in a post-modern sea of moral relativism and cultural decadence, and thus cannot see the simple fact that some things are just plain wrong.


I'm not certain that's true at all. The notion that your average European is more calchared and soophestemakated than your average yank is bunk, IMO, and the Europeans would just go to see musclebound dudes swing swords at each others faces without giving a second thought to what it actually depicted. There's a lot of Europe it hasn't arrived in yet, so wait a while to see more reviews.

Two things:

1. I just returned from seeing this film. Expect my review and analysis in about an hour.

2. Europeans are more sophisticated and cultured then the Yanks. Fact.

Stick
26th March 07, 05:31 PM
Two things:

1. I just returned from seeing this film. Expect my review and analysis in about an hour.

2. Europeans are more sophisticated and cultured then the Yanks. Fact.

Apparently not sophisticated enough to tell "then" from "than".

/rimshot

Zendetta
26th March 07, 05:39 PM
Zing!

One point for the Colonials.

polishillusion
26th March 07, 06:15 PM
USA
USA
USA
USA
Poland
USA
USA
USA

Osiris
26th March 07, 06:38 PM
Are there any arguments claiming that this movie isn't racist that don't involve

A. Its just a movie - BOAN
B. But Miller... - no, he didn't
C. The Chinese did it - No racist nationalism THERE

?

Scrapper
26th March 07, 06:49 PM
My point is Frank Miller is a hack, because I came up with that (without having played Mortyr, but yes on the Wolfenstein) on the fly.

Also, imagine for a second that you're not American.

And, imagine that I wrote that there is a scene in the movie where the hero gives a big speech about freedom, and right afterwards orders his [black] slaves to get his personal tank ready for battle.


Who's playing the hero? If it's Mel Gibson I fling poo at the screen.

Otherwise? I don't know that I would feel anything about that. It's a fucking movie. I suppose I would question the writer's skill, or perhaps try to understand why that character was such a hypocrite.

But if it a summer action movie, I shrug and eat popcorn. If it's a "documentary" (paging Michael Moore and Al Gore) I start fact-checking (if I care enough about the subject).

I know what history tells us about Thermopylae. I know that 7000 greeks fought anywhere from 200,000 to 750,000 Persions (depending on whose numbers you like). I know that Spartan culture was far from noble and wholesome.

They WERE the finest foot soldiers of their era; I find that interesting.

THE MOVIE is about bad-assery. It's about "death before dishonor." It's about taking a stand even when it's unpopular. The fact that it is historically innacurate is irrelevant to me.

I'm sorry about that. I don't thtink that because we have a complicated military issue in the middle east should preclude people from making war movies. No matter who is in the war.

I get what you guys are saying, I really do! I understand that this movie GLORIFIES war in a time where that is a touchy subject. I get that the bad guys in the movie were Persians. But...uhm...despite all the other historical innacuracies...the enemy of the Greeks at Thermopylae was Persia. I get that if you are a sensitive person, you could conceivably miscontrue the jingoistic portrayal of good v. evil in this movie to be anti-arab, anti-persian, or anti whatever.

That's the only real problem with polarizing your protagonists and antagonists. people see what they want to see instead of saying "good guy" v. "bad guy."

It is the official position of Scrapper, (All rights reserved, void where prohibited, not valid in Lichtenstein) that to search beyond the most basic themes in 300 is putting way more thought into it than Miller did.

If you see anything in this movie but war porn and the idealization of the honorable warrior mythos, than you are trying too damn hard.

OZZ
26th March 07, 07:00 PM
What makes me sad is that so many people can't just watch and enjoy a fucking movie.

It's not a documentary.

It's not history.

It's not racist.

It has no agenda.

It's a guy movie about being a badass. With healthy heapings of self-sacrifice and "death before dishonor."

It was fun and entertaining. I cannot believe how hard some people are working to find a "hidden" meaning in what is essentially war porn.

+ rep for telling it like it is..
I have to say, though. that I didn't like it as much the second time around. Still a good movie, but not much for replay value.

Iscariot
26th March 07, 07:00 PM
Apparently not sophisticated enough to tell "then" from "than".

/rimshot
Three things:

1. Shut up bitch or I'll be checking every post you ever make.

2. I'm English, the language is mine, I reserve the right to make changes at any time.

3. My review is here, after two computer crashes and much swearing (LMK if I've dropped a paragraph from a crash or not): http://www.sociocide.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46521

Osiris
26th March 07, 07:04 PM
How is dividing the good guys and the bad guys based on skin color NOT racist?

polishillusion
26th March 07, 07:05 PM
All this over war-pr0n.

Miller wins.

I hope Watchmen is better.

Dagon Akujin
26th March 07, 07:17 PM
I hated Forst Gump. Retards had nothing to do with Watergate and ping-pong. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvQ_8a0EEXA)

Dagon

(P.S. Scrapper, what the hell happened to your avatar? LOL. Is that Thomas Kinkaid?)

MaverickZ
26th March 07, 07:41 PM
How is dividing the good guys and the bad guys based on skin color NOT racist?
Os, the only person making a race issue out of this movie is you.

Osiris
26th March 07, 08:56 PM
Um, I'm the only person ON THIS BOARD with those objections, yes.

However, no one has fucking countered those points. What about the image with the guy being so dark he blends in with the night? Why Africanize historically light skinned people? I'm not the one calling attention to race here. The movie did in using skin color for shock value and demonization, most notably in the fade to black image.

MaverickZ
26th March 07, 09:04 PM
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/mzauberm/800px-Achaemenid_Empire%20copy.jpg

Scrapper
26th March 07, 09:32 PM
Villian,

My stance is clear, man.

If you want to see racism...see racism. You are talking about that one scene where the VERY VERY EVIL BAD MAN NO ROOM FOR INERPRETATION NOT NICE PERSON's face fades to black so all you can see is his jaundiced eyes and teeth.

I get it.

I just can't get to where you are from here. The same thing could have been done with a white character, especially if you know Miller's style. He does that ALL the time in the comics (I know you've read the Sin City graphic novels. Count how many times he does that in "The Hard Goodbye").

Its a dramatic device. You see racism, I see drama in the neo-noir style. Miller uses chromatic washes for dramatic effect CONSTANTLY. It's an integral part of his syle.

Furthermore the two main bad guys, and almost all of Xerxes lieutenants, where non-black. If you go fishing for racism, you can find it anywhere, I'm sure. But you are trying too hard, I think.

By your logic, the most racist place in the work is the supermarket:

I mean why is brown rice called "wild rice" anyway? What, dark colored rice isn't as civilized as lily white rice? What the hell does teh brown rice do that makes it so damn wild?

Why are black olives sold in cans, and green ones in jars? I guess we can't let people see those unruly BLACK olives? We gotta keep the BLACK olives locked up in a can now?

I'm not telling you what to think. I'm just saying that to me, all this drama just looks silly. There are enough politically and socially charged movies with mesages out there for people to jump on. Going after 300, a movie with almost NO social message at all is, well, weird to me.

ICY
26th March 07, 11:29 PM
I mean why is brown rice called "wild rice" anyway? What, dark colored rice isn't as civilized as lily white rice? What the hell does teh brown rice do that makes it so damn wild?


It...grows in the wild, not cultivated land.

The racism is as blatant as it is ridiculous. Xerxes is a Satanic black homo tyrant. His soldiers are monsters, and not white. Racism.

DAYoung
26th March 07, 11:53 PM
Um, I'm the only person ON THIS BOARD with those objections, yes.

However, no one has fucking countered those points. What about the image with the guy being so dark he blends in with the night? Why Africanize historically light skinned people? I'm not the one calling attention to race here. The movie did in using skin color for shock value and demonization, most notably in the fade to black image.

The director makes a point of noting that they wanted a mix of ethnicities, chiefly because the empire was multi-racial.

I don't think they're Africanising the Persians, so much as populating the film will all sorts of Asiatic, African and Levantine characters.

As for the fade to black, I think it seems more sinister than it is.

BUT...

The overall 'feel' of the film has clear racial overtones, e.g. a band of white men against a throng of multicoloured monsters.

I just don't think these are what makes the story so powerful (and I'm assuming you'd agree - the story could easily be told without the racial and disability caricatures).

danno
27th March 07, 02:46 AM
No, not really.

not really? so kinda?

i'm kidding.

my position is still the same as in this post (http://www.sociocide.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1225216#post1225216) and the few before it. i think i'll just have to leave it there.

DAYoung
27th March 07, 02:59 AM
No, not really.

Yes. He really does.

It's well known in the entertainment industry.

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n5/DAYoung_2006/hollywood.jpg

danno
27th March 07, 03:02 AM
i'm reminded of a segment on the kerri-anne morning show. kerri anne is basically an airhead. she got a few people in to discuss the davinci code. one was from opus day or whatever they are called, one was a historian and a few other "experts". kerri anne was in the middle, running the discussion.

whenever someone said it was harmful because it told lies which made christianity look bad, her argument was "but it's just a movie, why take it seriously? why not just enjoy it as a film?"

THEN later on she brought up some of the ideas from the film as credible theories, debating in favour of them against the historian.

so she was saying "it's just a film" and at the same time giving the fiction serious consideration, as if it had some real credible theories going on. she couldn't see her own hypocrisy, and neither could anyone else on the show. it was maddening.

danno
27th March 07, 03:02 AM
Yes. He really does.

It's well known in the entertainment industry.

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n5/DAYoung_2006/hollywood.jpg

LOL

HAHAHA

Iscariot
27th March 07, 06:14 AM
It...grows in the wild, not cultivated land.

The racism is as blatant as it is ridiculous. Xerxes is a Satanic black homo tyrant. His soldiers are monsters, and not white. Racism.
I'm sorry, were you talking about 300 or The Lord of The Rings?

Every argument that has been put forward that streches to fit itself against 300 fit perfectly to LOTR.

WarPhalange
27th March 07, 08:53 AM
Too bad Orcs can't start online petitions.

polishillusion
27th March 07, 09:30 AM
Obviously the Orcs represent "disadvantaged group A" because of "reason B", and you all are trans culturally deficient.

Kiko
27th March 07, 04:49 PM
Was gonna start another thread, but there's already too many.

At least 300 gives us opportunities for peripheral amusements! (http://community.livejournal.com/randompictures/2209617.html?page=2)

ICY
27th March 07, 06:49 PM
http://www.cis.rit.edu/~gaf1551/Misc/orly300.gif
LOL


I'm sorry, were you talking about 300 or The Lord of The Rings?

Every argument that has been put forward that streches to fit itself against 300 fit perfectly to LOTR.

LOTR had depth.

300 was:

KILL THE FUCKING NIGGER FAGGOTS!!!

Iscariot
27th March 07, 06:57 PM
How can you be so right on one 300 thread, yet so wrong on another?

ICY
27th March 07, 07:03 PM
Let me amend that to encapsulate all non-whites under the "nigger" banner, and also put forth that when I speak of depth I mean it in a sense relative to 300, not to anything else. In relation to 300, LOTR had more depth than the Mariana Trench.

DAYoung
27th March 07, 07:10 PM
more depth than the Mariana Trench.

I vote that this be your transsexual porn name.

WarPhalange
27th March 07, 07:39 PM
I wonder what it feels like to be a meme.

Ze German
27th March 07, 08:33 PM
LOTR was written in a different time. Peter Jackson actually tried to de-racismify the material of LOTR. Just look at the original description of Orcs. And who remembers the black primitives near the end of the book? They for some reason didn't make it into the movie...

WarPhalange
27th March 07, 09:11 PM
The Southrons? They were there. In The Two Towers, when Sam and Frodo fall near the big gate thing and hide under their cloaks, one of them comes closer and looks around.

Ze German
27th March 07, 09:16 PM
Nope not the Southrons. I mean the black Untermenschen that live in the forest and help out Theodin at some point. I'll look for the quote.

Edit: Just remembered they were called "Woses", The Wild Men of The Woods. Look for Woses with Google Image Search for teh racism.

WarPhalange
27th March 07, 11:52 PM
I remember the Wild Men. Were they black? I don't remember anything being mentioned except that they were wild and men.

Dagon Akujin
28th March 07, 12:04 AM
I remember the Wild Men. Were they black? I don't remember anything being mentioned except that they were wild and men.

Duh. "Wild rice" means "non-caucasoidal rice", so obviously "wild men" means "brown people". How did you not pick up on this?

Dagon

WarPhalange
28th March 07, 12:51 AM
I'm sheltered, that's how.

Shawarma
28th March 07, 08:43 AM
LOTR was written in a different time. Peter Jackson actually tried to de-racismify the material of LOTR. Just look at the original description of Orcs. And who remembers the black primitives near the end of the book? They for some reason didn't make it into the movie...
Weren't those guys riding the oliphants (only good thing about the 3rd movie, just as the troll was the only good thing about the first and the ents the only good thing about the second) pretty brown-ish, like Moorish or something in looks?

Ze German
28th March 07, 08:45 AM
No they aren't in the movie. I'm pretty sure of that. If I remember correctly they help Theodin's army reach Gondor faster through their forest.

billy sol hurok
28th March 07, 10:34 AM
I vote that this be your transsexual porn name.
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to DAYoung again.

"Respect mah profunditah!"

ICY
28th March 07, 01:48 PM
I vote that this be your transsexual porn name.

Motion passed.

kobudo
28th March 07, 04:46 PM
Imagine a revolutionary war movie with the Americans being played by mexican ogres.

As long as the Mexican ogres are dressed in luchadore (sp?) costumes, I'm all for it.

Kein Haar
30th March 07, 12:10 AM
I love this fuckng 300 movi3.

Steve
30th March 07, 01:23 AM
Yes, we know by the two threads in CTC that you hav3 about it.

DerAuslander108
30th March 07, 01:44 AM
Do I need to start my own 300 thread?

Is that like...a requirement or something?

ICY
30th March 07, 02:33 AM
It's a way to announce to the world that you're a flaming fruitcake.

Ze German
30th March 07, 07:30 AM
So I wonder, how do genital size and one's oppinion of 300 correlate?

Kein Haar
30th March 07, 12:18 PM
Auslander,

The answer is yes. Start a 300 thread.

Zaii
2nd April 07, 10:37 PM
People look for things to complain about. It's a movie. It's not a documentary and makes no claims to be. So right then and there historical accuracy should not even be an issue, as no claim is ever made along those lines. If you're looking for accuracy, maybe you should look elsewhere, and not to a movie that's 90% CG so as to mimic a comic book.

As far as racism goes, yes, the persians were highly demonized.....given that they were portrayed as having demons (or mutants, whatever you want to call them) in their ranks, that's blatantly obvious. What a lot of people are failing to take into account is that the story is told from the perspective of the only survivor of the 300 spartans, and he is telling the tale to fire up a bunch of soldiers before they go into battle against the very same enemy featured in his telling. Ofcourse he is going to exaggerate and hyperbolize, and subsequently, the story reflects that. If in viewing this movie hateful attitudes and feelings are stirred up towards persians, or middle easterners, or blacks, or puppies, or goat-men, or whatever, then that's because the viewer was a racist idiot to begin with when they came into the theater and left again as one. You can't blame a movie for human stupidity.

I understand there were some differences between the graphic novel and the film. I see this as a reflection of creative license, and not an attempt to create propaganda, especially given that the director has specifically said that the movie is not aimed to reflect on modern politics remotely, and that he's simply telling an entertaining story. He also explicitly states in that same interview that he was not attempting to pose the spartans as role models, as they had a number of behaviors that we might deem psychopathic in this day and age (murdering children, for one).

It's incredibly arrogant to assume that everything has to always have some angle on american worldview and foreign policy, or on current events, especially given that the film's core concept is a historical happening that began and ended long before america was even conceived of as to be anything resembling its modern form.

AAAhmed46
3rd April 07, 01:18 AM
THIS IS CAKE TOWN!!!!!!!

Thinkchair
3rd April 07, 08:46 AM
Regardless, its been an effective technique for ages. Birth of a Nation lead to a KKK revival.



I don't support the "persian position". My points are my own. About the time the guy blended in with the black screen leaving only his jaundiced eyes, I was like "hey, wtf?". If thats not a sinister skin based image, what is? Its racism, plain and simple. The irony here is that people who think they know their history too well to be affected by this film and that its NOT racist at all DON'T KNOW THEIR HISTORY. This type of film and imagery has been used to demonize people of color all over the world. And it sticks. Killer voodoo cults, white Egyptians, mummies, rampaging cannibals, the mystical indians, etc. have all stuck in our popular culture to the point where they've become accepted, at least in part, as fact, or at least possibilities.

you need to stop reading bell hooks my friend. stop fighting the non-transgressive-motivated-representations of gender, race and class! Accept the white supremacist capitalist patriarchy!

Seraphim
3rd April 07, 01:44 PM
There's alot more important things to talk about. Peak oil for instance.

It's gonna rock the world harder then 300.

Steve
3rd April 07, 01:56 PM
There's alot more important things to talk about. Peak oil for instance.

It's gonna rock the world harder then 300.

Please post a trailer for the film so we know what you are talking about and how it pertains to this thread.

MaverickZ
3rd April 07, 09:33 PM
Oh my god.... Osiris was right after all.
http://jj.am/gallery/d/5536-1/300kfc.gif

PizDoff
4th April 07, 11:19 PM
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p62/Advents_Lost_Child/Sparta.jpg

Don't know if that was posted before, not going through all these threads!

Toby Christensen
5th April 07, 08:52 AM
I LOVE the battle of Salamis

BEST BATTLE EVER!

Kiko
5th April 07, 05:09 PM
Not, of course, to be confused with "The Fountain Of Salmacis".

billy sol hurok
5th April 07, 06:09 PM
Not, of course, to be confused with "The Fountain Of Salmacis".

Nowhere near as gay, for openers.

DAYoung
5th April 07, 06:21 PM
Three great battles: Potideia, Amphipolis and Delium.

Kein Haar
6th April 07, 06:37 AM
Bump for three00
!

AAAhmed46
7th April 07, 03:58 PM
Oh my god.... Osiris was right after all.
http://jj.am/gallery/d/5536-1/300kfc.gif


hahaha im sooo going to save that!

MaverickZ
10th April 07, 09:38 AM
http://img462.imageshack.us/img462/5236/spartayb1.png

Osiris
10th April 07, 12:08 PM
I saw the thing again tripping. I would've been ready to stab someone if I had a clue where the fuck I was after the movie.

MaverickZ
10th April 07, 04:55 PM
Wait... you do drugs?

DAYoung
10th April 07, 06:52 PM
Athens.

Oh, wait...

Er.

Thebes.

polishillusion
10th April 07, 07:25 PM
my friend just admitted to me that he started hearing the narrator of 300 telling him shit after the movie, and it wont go away.

post traumatic stress disorder from 300

absolutely awesome.

MaverickZ
10th April 07, 08:16 PM
Thessaly!!!!!

http://www.historyforkids.org/learn/greeks/religion/myths/pictures/achillesdeath.jpg

Osiris
10th April 07, 08:31 PM
Wait... you do drugs?

Of course not.

Zendetta
10th April 07, 08:42 PM
Drugs do him.

Ze German
11th April 07, 01:39 PM
Santasm (http://www.santasm.net/)

Kein Haar
12th April 07, 09:10 AM
Maverick, that was a bad-ass sparta reference!

MaverickZ
12th April 07, 09:42 AM
Maverick, that was a bad-ass sparta reference!
Um.. that was Achilles. He was from Thessaly.