PDA

View Full Version : Ghost In The Shell



Iscariot
12th March 07, 01:28 AM
Ghost In The Shell (1995) - Mamoru Oshii. DVD Version. Classification Rating: 15 (BBFC).

Synopsis
The year is 2029. What is now known as the internet is a global necessity. Everything in the modern world is arranged through the net. If your job doesn't require you to leave you abode, there's no need to. Everything you need can be brought to you direct. The story follows the experiences of Major Motoko Kusanagi in her efforts to define herself in her enhanced cyborg state and to capture the terrorist known over the net as The Puppet Master.

Impressions
This is quite possibly the ultimate mix of the prophetic futurist movement and the Sci-Fi adventure tales. This is the film The Matrix and all its sequels and spin-offs wishes it was. I know this and am a big Matrix fan. Every film since that incorporates some form of themselves around cyborgs, the digital mind or the entrophy of the human net owes its existence to this film. Fact.

I watched this film today (in the English Dub as part of my dissertation on the themes of cybernetics and transhumanism) and found it just as effective as the Japanese dub with subtitled. As a side point my dissertation needs loads of help, any academic discussions of the subject you know would be greatly appreciated. Anyone who claims to be a fan of modern Sci-Fi should have seen this film. Anyone who hasn't and claims to know anything about Sci-Fi is a lying fucker. Watching this film is like learning vowels in the English language, the rest doesn't make sense until you know this.

The obvious, this film is all animation, and was done in the mid-90s. It looks dated compared to the modern stuff, however it in no way lessens its impact. If you are intelligent enough to engage with GITS you might understand it and will certainly be impressed by it. If you aren't intelligent enough to illicit this response you should remove yourself from the gene pool. Now.

I can't really write much else without detracting from the impact. This film should be seen with a little pre-knowledge as possible. Yes, it's know as one of the founders of modern cyber-punk imagery and psycho-philosophical debate as you may know, but the less you know about the plot the happier you'll be. GITS is all about the journey and discovery, not the destination.

Ghost In The Shell's Final Score: 8.9. It's 12 years old now, had this review been done a decade ago it would have been the first film to break the nine barrier of my ratings system, however a lot of its effect has now been reduced to shorthand in the genre. A testament to the speed in which the genre progresses and how much the film impacted the genre than anything else.

WarPhalange
12th March 07, 01:35 AM
Saw clips of it as part of my video games as literature class (it was a LOT harder than I expected. :( ).

The parts we mainly went over were the gender roles thing, where the guy seems to be a pansy, whereas she is a complete badass. Also, she's teh sexy and she rips a fucking tank in half.

And in the part with the museum, the tank destroys the human evolution tree up until homo sapiens (Or something like that. It was supposed to be deep and symbolic.).

But as my friend put it: the entire movie is just an excuse to draw her naked.

Still, I might watch the rest someday. The movie seems like a classic, so if I want to call myself a nerd, I need to memorize the script.

Iscariot
12th March 07, 01:43 AM
Saw clips of it as part of my video games as literature class (it was a LOT harder than I expected. :( ).
Your Lit. lecturer rocks. I got to watch The Matrix and Blade Runner as part of my Philosophy class.


The parts we mainly went over were the gender roles thing, where the guy seems to be a pansy, whereas she is a complete badass. Also, she's teh sexy and she rips a fucking tank in half.
Anything you still have/remember on that I'd be interested in. I'm currently arguing with one of my film lecturers about the inherent failure of modern psychoanalytical techniques to cope with cybernetic and tranhuman entities.


And in the part with the museum, the tank destroys the human evolution tree up until homo sapiens (Or something like that. It was supposed to be deep and symbolic.).
It is, it's on the benefit of mutation and diversity as opposed to identical specialisation


But as my friend put it: the entire movie is just an excuse to draw her naked.
Your friend is some sort of sexually repressed cretin.


Still, I might watch the rest someday. The movie seems like a classic, so if I want to call myself a nerd, I need to memorize the script.
It needs to be watched, but not because it has to. That's been the major reason I've had a lot of films ruined in my studies, watching them because I've had to rather than wanted to. Next time you're in the mood for anime with Matrix style depth stick this on intead of Akira.

WarPhalange
12th March 07, 02:01 AM
Your Lit. lecturer rocks. I got to watch The Matrix and Blade Runner as part of my Philosophy class.

She kicks total ass. She's over 50 and plays video games, and is writing a book about how video games should be considered literature in the same way movies are.



Anything you still have/remember on that I'd be interested in. I'm currently arguing with one of my film lecturers about the inherent failure of modern psychoanalytical techniques to cope with cybernetic and tranhuman entities.

Her being a feminist (A REAL one, not the nazi kind.) we went over gender roles mostly.

Like I said, the girl is super hot, yet very masculine, and her partner apparently has doubts about himself.



It is, it's on the benefit of mutation and diversity as opposed to identical specialisation

Also had to do with how a robot seemed human-like and was pretty much going to replace humans in the long run. Kind of like with Alien/Aliens where the droid dude still wanted to help or was evil, and you didn't know until the end when he got ripped in half.

Also if I remember, the net played a big part of the movie, because you didn't even have to have a body (or at least the robots didn't, that's how the Puppet Master worked, right?) to do things and be concious. So if our minds don't make us human, only our bodies, and we can create artificial bodies, what is human?

I'll try to remember more.



Your friend is some sort of sexually repressed cretin.

Nah. He's a nerd like myself. He took the comic books as lit class instead, though.



It needs to be watched, but not because it has to. That's been the major reason I've had a lot of films ruined in my studies, watching them because I've had to rather than wanted to. Next time you're in the mood for anime with Matrix style depth stick this on intead of Akira.

I've watched Akira. It was alright. I'll watch this eventually, then. Probably with my sister, since she's an anime freak. Although... I don't know how I'll feel about watching boobies with my little (16) sister sitting in the room... meh.

I'll try to "acquire" it now, actually.

Iscariot
12th March 07, 02:17 AM
She kicks total ass. She's over 50 and plays video games, and is writing a book about how video games should be considered literature in the same way movies are.
If you're still in contact with her I'd be interested. I thought about writing a paper on the (sub)genre of video games becoming movies in terms of their narratives.

Plus if she needs an editor, I could do with a job.


Her being a feminist (A REAL one, not the nazi kind.) we went over gender roles mostly.

Like I said, the girl is super hot, yet very masculine, and her partner apparently has doubts about himself.
Did some feminism last year. After I was annoyed at it I started to appreciate it. I'd probably disagree with 'the bloke' having doubts, but I'm guessing you're remembering rather than debating.


Also had to do with how a robot seemed human-like and was pretty much going to replace humans in the long run. Kind of like with Alien/Aliens where the droid dude still wanted to help or was evil, and you didn't know until the end when he got ripped in half.
The Alien/Aliens, Ah/Bishop comparison is interesting as both were artificial organisms and personalities rather than Kusanagi who's a human based cyborg or The Puppet Master who's a evolution of dormant artificial code. I don't know if they quite work, but my analysis is likely very different.


Also if I remember, the net played a big part of the movie, because you didn't even have to have a body (or at least the robots didn't, that's how the Puppet Master worked, right?) to do things and be concious. So if our minds don't make us human, only our bodies, and we can create artificial bodies, what is human?
The net plays a big part as it's the 'natural environment' of The Puppet Master, an evolved entity along the lines of biological creations, the difference is it achieved sentience before completing the main biological functions as with all known forms of life.

The term the film uses is the 'Ghost' which represents the human self of a person. It cannot be replicated, it is in effective the measurable form of what is commonly called the soul. The Puppet Master then disrupts the equilibrium by manifesting its own 'Ghost' even while being a non-organic sentience.


I've watched Akira. It was alright. I'll watch this eventually, then. Probably with my sister, since she's an anime freak. Although... I don't know how I'll feel about watching boobies with my little (16) sister sitting in the room... meh.

I'll try to "acquire" it now, actually.
The nudity in the film isn't emphasised as sexual, nor is it to a great degree. Kusanagi views her nakedness as a natural process of being able to initiate her camoflage systems, only the onther (more human characters) seem uncomfortable/affected by her lack of clothing.

WarPhalange
12th March 07, 02:33 AM
If you're still in contact with her I'd be interested. I thought about writing a paper on the (sub)genre of video games becoming movies in terms of their narratives.

Plus if she needs an editor, I could do with a job.

I'll email her. I was supposed to read over her 1/4th done rough draft that I just remembered...

I'll read over it, email her back, and ask her. This is in the states, you know, so I don't know how payment would work.



Did some feminism last year. After I was annoyed at it I started to appreciate it. I'd probably disagree with 'the bloke' having doubts, but I'm guessing you're remembering rather than debating.

Yes. This was last spring, and only a few clips. I remember them being in a car together and her giving him some lecture. Maybe that was just that one part and he got in gear later or something, I don't know.

Also kind of "opened my eyes" to feminism. It turns out to be very METAL. Not about being a feminine pansy, but about everybody pulling their own weight and not whining.



The Alien/Aliens, Ah/Bishop comparison is interesting as both were artificial organisms and personalities rather than Kusanagi who's a human based cyborg or The Puppet Master who's a evolution of dormant artificial code. I don't know if they quite work, but my analysis is likely very different.

I'm just giving examples of other *things* that had human behavior without being human. I seem to recall there usually being a human antagonist somewhere in there to contrast that even humans can act inhumane.



The net plays a big part as it's the 'natural environment' of The Puppet Master, an evolved entity along the lines of biological creations, the difference is it achieved sentience before completing the main biological functions as with all known forms of life.

Exactly. It's sentient, but without being alive. Would killing it constitute murder?


The nudity in the film isn't emphasised as sexual, nor is it to a great degree. Kusanagi views her nakedness as a natural process of being able to initiate her camoflage systems, only the onther (more human characters) seem uncomfortable/affected by her lack of clothing.

Yeah. Oddly enough, this is like my discomfort in seeing boobies while my sister is in the room, while she probably doesn't care.

It wasn't sexual as in "Hey, let's stick tentacles up her vagina. Someone will probably fap to that." but it definately was there to show that even though she was female, she wasn't weak. That's why she generally looked feminine, instead of muscular like a guy would.

We also talked about Samus in the same way, how at the end of the game she takes off her helmet and people are like "WTF NO WAI!!"

DAYoung
12th March 07, 04:58 AM
...video games should be considered literature in the same way movies are.

You're trying to hurt me.

And it's working.

DAYoung
12th March 07, 05:07 AM
http://imgred.com/http://www.worth1000.com/entries/36500/36617giuk_w.jpg

Iscariot
12th March 07, 05:38 AM
You're trying to hurt me.

And it's working. Would Herr Doktor care to qualify his remarks?

Edit: ^ She has far too many clothes on for her thermo-optic camoflage to work. Please ensure she corrects this for her next demonstration.

DAYoung
12th March 07, 05:43 AM
Just grumbling.

We reserve the term 'literature' for art - most fiction isn't art, most film isn't art, and most music isn't art.

If we're going to admit video games, we're going to need some very judicious selection.

billy sol hurok
12th March 07, 08:30 AM
Just grumbling.

We reserve the term 'literature' for art - most fiction isn't art, most film isn't art, and most music isn't art.
Again with the evaluative use of "art," rather than the simple descriptive.

I feel that "bad art" is a useful concept -- all too! -- and for that reason don't have a Quality-Control Cutoff for stuff to be considered "art."

Now, if you balk at calling video games "literature," I'm a bit more sympathetic.

Oh yeah, and what Iscariot said about thermo-plasticity vis-a-vis moar boobies!!1!

Osiris
12th March 07, 08:42 AM
The parts we mainly went over were the gender roles thing, where the guy seems to be a pansy, whereas she is a complete badass.

Batou is a pansy? Um... He's not the Major by any means, but I don't recall it being implied that he's a bitch.

As far as the rest of the movie goes, its pretty good. I liked it. I liked the philosophy in this one a lot better than the last one. The last movie only really came off as intelligent during the mansion scene and even then it wasn't as impressive as it could've been and thats AFTER I'd done a relevant drug.

WarPhalange
12th March 07, 11:14 AM
I said I only watched a clip. In that one clip he was uneasy and she reassured him. I think they were in a van or something.

DAY, these days video games are movies you play. If movies can be considered literature, there really is no reason that games shouldn't.

Also, not all books are literature. Some are pure shit. Art is art, no matter the medium.

I mean, take a look at Metal Gear Solid. One of the best games in the history of the world. It's practically a movie, too. So I see no reason not to call it literature, if movies can be called literature.

Stick
12th March 07, 11:22 AM
I think they were perhaps talking about Togosa, the guy that refuses to get a cybernetic body, uses a revolver, has a mullet, wife and kids.

Batou can by no stretch of the imagination be considered a pansy. Also, he's the focus of the second.

Honestly, DAYoung, if any movie can be considered to be art it's the two GitS films, they're pretty much really, really expensive paintings that move.

64NWSGTvH_Q

I need to see that movie again, in English; my Japanese was no where near good enough to follow that dialogue, to say nothing of when it broke into classical Chinese poetry >_<

Oh, and video games as art/lit. get over it, it's true. Edit obviously not all of them, not even most.

Neildo
12th March 07, 01:49 PM
I think games are better than most movies as far as intellectual content is concerned, and by far better than anything on television. Heroes is the only show i watch. I don't even care if i watch my cartoons anymore (south park, simpsons, family guy, etc.)

Most of the next-gen games are mind blowing graphics too, which i consider art.

Osiris
12th March 07, 01:56 PM
I think games are better than most movies as far as intellectual content is concerned

Please, go on.

Neildo
12th March 07, 02:03 PM
You know, like RPG's and stuff. Huge complex storylines that could never be condensed into a two hour film.

Osiris
12th March 07, 02:20 PM
RPG stories tend to be utter disasters.

WarPhalange
12th March 07, 02:48 PM
Please, go on.

Because video games actually involve you. You're not a 3rd party observer of the events unfolding 10 feet in front of you in a box. You control the characters, hence you get more attached to them. Especially if the game gives you any sort of choice with regards to the story line.

Teh El Macho
12th March 07, 02:56 PM
Batou is a pansy? Um... He's not the Major by any means, but I don't recall it being implied that he's a bitch.

As far as the rest of the movie goes, its pretty good. I liked it. I liked the philosophy in this one a lot better than the last one. The last movie only really came off as intelligent during the mansion scene and even then it wasn't as impressive as it could've been and thats AFTER I'd done a relevant drug.

I second that. Batou, and the rest of the gang are not pansies at all. Shit, Batou is a mean, ass-blaster motherfucker, second only to the major.

I saw the first movie, which I liked. Saw the second one, which I think falls short compared to the first, and I own the first season of the series.

I just love the whole topic of the series and the mean, unrestrained ass kickery and shit blowing. The whole GOS series and movies bring a realistic-looking future, not utopian but certainly not dystopian.

Plus nothing beats watching a hot female cyborg with anatomically impossible big boobs kicking ass to the left and right.

Osiris
12th March 07, 03:14 PM
Because video games actually involve you. You're not a 3rd party observer of the events unfolding 10 feet in front of you in a box. You control the characters, hence you get more attached to them.

None of this has anything to do with intellectual content.


Especially if the game gives you any sort of choice with regards to the story line.

Still not particularly intellectual.

WarPhalange
12th March 07, 03:20 PM
It's making you think --> intellectual.

I mean, just because you choose not to learn anything from them, doesn't mean it's not there.

Osiris
12th March 07, 03:23 PM
If your intellectual development is coming from twisted metal, you fail pretty damn hard.

WarPhalange
12th March 07, 03:33 PM
I can't believe you're so stupid.

Twisted metal is like watching football or reading an instruction manual.

I'm talking about games with actual storylines that involve you. Red Faction was a pretty good game. It really reminded me of Total Recall. Of course there's Metal Gear Solid. I'd include Baldur's Gate, too. FFT also had a good story.

Osiris
12th March 07, 04:06 PM
The vast majority of RF is you running and gunning your way through the place. How is it more intellectual than a movie, many of which are focused almost 100% on the ideas presented?

WarPhalange
12th March 07, 04:56 PM
many of which are focused almost 100% on the ideas presented?

lol?

Liffguard
12th March 07, 05:16 PM
I'd include Baldur's Gate, too.

Damn straight. If any game (or series) demonstrates the "video games as literature" idea it's the Baldur's Gate saga. I love everything about those games from the characterisation and genuinely populated world to the tactical combat and grand, overarching storyling behind the limitless subplots. Definate contender for best game ever and if it's not counted as literature then nothing should be.

Edit: Also Planescape: Torment

DAYoung
12th March 07, 05:51 PM
Again with the evaluative use of "art," rather than the simple descriptive.

I feel that "bad art" is a useful concept -- all too! -- and for that reason don't have a Quality-Control Cutoff for stuff to be considered "art."

Now, if you balk at calling video games "literature," I'm a bit more sympathetic.

Oh yeah, and what Iscariot said about thermo-plasticity vis-a-vis moar boobies!!1!

There are works that are not art, and then there are works that fail as art.

DAYoung
12th March 07, 05:54 PM
I said I only watched a clip. In that one clip he was uneasy and she reassured him. I think they were in a van or something.

DAY, these days video games are movies you play. If movies can be considered literature, there really is no reason that games shouldn't.

Most movies aren't literature. They're texts, but not literature.


Also, not all books are literature. Some are pure shit. Art is art, no matter the medium.

I agree wholeheartedly.


I mean, take a look at Metal Gear Solid. One of the best games in the history of the world. It's practically a movie, too. So I see no reason not to call it literature, if movies can be called literature.

Perhaps. What are its artistic qualities?

polishillusion
12th March 07, 06:08 PM
watched this in anime class. thats right Poop Loops, i win. ANIME CLASS during the summer at Binghamton University.

Fuck you ass.

Kiko
12th March 07, 06:11 PM
But you HATE Binghampton!

WarPhalange
12th March 07, 06:43 PM
LOL summer class.

polishillusion
12th March 07, 06:49 PM
yes, i hate it. but got out early because of summer classes

go figure