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Dark Helmet
6th March 07, 10:32 PM
It’s like a wedding but with a twist: Young women exchange rings, take vows and enjoy a first dance…with their dads. “Purity balls” are the next big thing in the save-it-till-marriage movement. Smart or scary? Tell us what you think here.

By Jennifer Baumgardner
In a chandelier-lit ballroom overlooking the Rocky Mountains one recent evening, some hundred couples feast on herb-crusted chicken and julienned vegetables. The men look dapper in tuxedos; their dates are resplendent in floor-length gowns, long white gloves and tiaras framing twirly, ornate updos. Seated at a table with four couples, I watch as the gray-haired man next to me reaches into his breast pocket, pulls out a small satin box and flips it open to check out a gold ring he’s about to place on the finger of the woman sitting to his right. Her eyes well up with tears as she is overcome by emotion.

The man’s date? His 25-year-old daughter. Welcome to Colorado Springs’ Seventh Annual Father-Daughter Purity Ball, held at the five-star Broadmoor Hotel. The event’s purpose is, in part, to celebrate dad-daughter bonding, but the main agenda is for fathers to vow to protect the girls’ chastity until they marry and for the daughters to promise to stay pure. Pastor Randy Wilson, host of the event and cofounder of the ball, strides to the front of the room, takes the microphone and asks the men, “Are you ready to war for your daughters’ purity?”

Wilson’s voice is jovial, yet his message is serious—and spreading like wildfire. Dozens of these lavish events are held every year, mainly in the South and Midwest, from Tucson to Peoria and New Orleans, sponsored by churches, nonprofit groups and crisis pregnancy centers. The balls are all part of the evangelical Christian movement, and they embody one of its key doctrines: abstinence until marriage. Thousands of girls have taken purity vows at these events over the past nine years. While the abstinence movement itself is fairly mainstream—about 10 percent of teen boys and 16 percent of girls in the United States have signed virginity pledges at churches, rallies or programs sponsored by groups such as True Love Waits—purity balls represent its more extreme edge. The young women who sign covenants at these parties tend to be devout, homeschooled and sheltered from popular culture.

Randy Wilson’s 19-year-old, Khrystian, is typical: She works at her church, spends most weekends at home with her family and has never danced with a male other than her father or brother. Emily Smith, an 18-year-old I meet, says that even kissing is out for her. “I made a promise to myself when I was younger,” she says, “to save my first kiss for my wedding day.” A tenet of the abstinence movement is that having lovers before marriage often leads to divorce. In the Wilsons’ community, young women hope to meet suitors at church, at college or through family connections.

The majority of the girls here are, as purity ball guidelines suggest, “just old enough…[to] have begun menstruating….” But a couple dozen fathers have also brought girls under 10. “This evening is more about spending time with her than her purity at this point,” says one seven-year-old’s dad, a trifle sheepishly. The event is seemingly innocent—not once do I hear “sex” or “virgin” cross anyone’s lips. Still, every one of the girls here, even the four-year-old, will sign that purity covenant...........
http://www.glamour.com/news/articles/2007/01/purityballs07feb

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This shit goes to 7 pages.But you get the drift.It's girls as young as 4 writing their names onto a pledged they make at a ball with their Dads.If that doesn't sound creepy enough they exchange rings.Yuck!

However this instances of a father showing attention or at leats spending time with their daughters has shown that found that those who had the best relationships with their dads were the most accomplished academically and had the strongest sense of self. Another much-cited study on the subject by two sociologists tracked 126 Baltimore girls from low-income families. It found that those with involved and caring dads were twice as likely to go to college or find a stable job after high school than those without such fathers; 75 percent less likely to give birth as teens; 80 percent less likely to ever be in jail; and half as likely to experience significant depression.

"There is no data on whether girls who attend purity balls remain abstinent until marriage; chances are many do, given the tight-knit communities they live in. But there is striking evidence that more than half of teens who take virginity pledges—at, say, rallies or events—go on to have sex within three years, according to findings of the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health, the most comprehensive survey of teens ever taken. And 88 percent of the pledgers surveyed end up having sex before marriage. “No pledge can counter the fact that teenagers are, in fact, sexual beings postpuberty,” notes Cary Backenger, a clinical psychotherapist in Appleton, Wisconsin, who works with teens, including several who have taken virginity pledges. “You can’t turn that off.”"

LOL at this stuff.

Seraphim
6th March 07, 10:45 PM
Fucking Yikes. YEESH.

....and I agree that having a father that gives a shit about you will help you in life.

WarPhalange
6th March 07, 11:13 PM
You know what works better than a virginity pledge, doesn't require any action on the part of the child, and still gets you closer to your father? Going fishing with him.

:(

ICY
6th March 07, 11:52 PM
You know what works way better than any pledge or time spent with anyone? Being a nerdy introvert.

WarPhalange
7th March 07, 12:16 AM
I know. My plan is that if my kids (lawl) ever ask me "daddy, where do babies come from?" I'll just hand them a Gameboy (or whatever the newest hand-held console is at the time). Chances are, they won't ever ask me anything ever again. Maybe except for more games and batteries.

If they don't ask me before puberty, they get it on their 12th birthday.

Dagon Akujin
7th March 07, 12:57 AM
No, no, no. This shit only gets more humorous than you can really imagine:

http://www.time.com/time/education/article/0,8599,93958,00.html

including anal and oral sex, which are increasingly popular among teens who identify as "virgins."


http://www.webmd.com/sexual-conditions/news/20050322/virginity-pledges-dont-cut-std-rates

STD rates were similar among all participants, regardless of whether they had taken a virginity pledge.


Pledge-takers were also less likely to know their STD status or to have seen a doctor about STD symptoms.


http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/05/08/MNGPHIN8IF1.DTL

In fact, more than half the adolescents who make such signed, public promises give up on their pledges within a year, according to the study released this week.


Rosenbaum found that 52 percent of those who said they had signed virginity pledges recanted them within a year. Additionally, 73 percent of those who told the first survey that they had taken a pledge but later had sex denied making such a promise when they were surveyed a second time.

In short, if you read enough about this stuff you'll discover that:
*Virginity pledges are supported by your tax dollars.
*They were created by religious groups.
*Pledgers do wait longer to have sex (well, vaginal sex).
*The "pledgers" have more anal and oral sex.
*They have an equal (or higher) amount of STD's.
*They are no more likely to not have sex before marriage.
*They are more likely to lie about their sexual experience.

Dagon :bsflag:

Question!
7th March 07, 01:20 AM
Of course, parental/societal pressure has nothing to do with these girls taking these pledges, so it's all good.

Chantress
7th March 07, 07:25 AM
Of course, parental/societal pressure has nothing to do with these girls taking these pledges, so it's all good.

Only as much pressure as friend/societal has on them to have sex. What strikes me as odd is a bunch of guys who value discipline (a key tenant of martial arts) think is sad or pathetic that there are people that choose to use discipline with regards to having sex. Sounds like a double standard to me.

billy sol hurok
7th March 07, 09:02 AM
The event’s purpose is, in part, to celebrate dad-daughter bonding, but the main agenda is for fathers to vow to protect the girls’ chastity until they marry and for the daughters to promise to stay pure. Pastor Randy Wilson, host of the event and cofounder of the ball, strides to the front of the room, takes the microphone and asks the men, “Are you ready to war for your daughters’ purity?”
Not to be outdone by certain other psycho fundies, these psycho fundies want to have honor killings too. After all, you might have to burn the village to save it . . .

WarPhalange
7th March 07, 09:38 AM
Only as much pressure as friend/societal has on them to have sex. What strikes me as odd is a bunch of guys who value discipline (a key tenant of martial arts) think is sad or pathetic that there are people that choose to use discipline with regards to having sex. Sounds like a double standard to me.

lol? Are you fucking stupid*? You do know that the urge to have sex is the strongest force of Nature, right?

*Yes

Yiktin Voxbane
7th March 07, 10:44 AM
lol? Are you fucking stupid*? You do know that the urge to have sex is the strongest force of Nature, right?

*Yes


Are you sure, I seem to recall reading self-preservation was more important by a large amount .

I ain't had a naughty in years ......
Has it changed me, Yes .
Have I learnt to do without, Yes .
Would I change my stance if it fell thru me door , Yes ... but only if there was ZERO Chance of a reltionshit .

Single me whole life, I have had the chance to sit back and observe you funny humans and your pathetic inability to do anything for yourselves, instead choosing to partner up with someone....someone to blame, someone to hate, someone to loathe, someone to divorce and finally someone to pay money to for the rest of your worthless lives.

Back on track.... I wonder how many of these vestial virgins go home from the ball and go ass to mouth with their fathers .....

Fucking whackjobs.

SpringHeeledJack
7th March 07, 11:12 AM
If they really want to commit, female circumcision is the only choice.

Dagon Akujin
7th March 07, 12:05 PM
Only as much pressure as friend/societal has on them to have sex. What strikes me as odd is a bunch of guys who value discipline (a key tenant of martial arts) think is sad or pathetic that there are people that choose to use discipline with regards to having sex. Sounds like a double standard to me.

You obviously have no idea what martial arts are about: kicking ass.

You obviously have no idea what Christianity should be about: not being a lying, hypocritical, proud, butt-fucking, science-denying, judgemental, STD-spreading, fundamental, crusading whore.

Dagon

P.S. Dishaprine vs. Kicking Ass (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQeUkUO5ZPo).

Question!
7th March 07, 01:50 PM
WE WRACK DISCRIPIN!

Robot Jesus
7th March 07, 01:51 PM
Only as much pressure as friend/societal has on them to have sex. What strikes me as odd is a bunch of guys who value discipline (a key tenant of martial arts) think is sad or pathetic that there are people that choose to use discipline with regards to having sex. Sounds like a double standard to me.

Martal arts is about discipline as a means to an end.
In fact the means to an end part is what differentiates real martal arts from bullshido. It all come down to a version of the will to power, without the means to an end part its just will to obedience and that never does anyone any good.

This brings me to my second point, abstinence programs are another example of will to obedience. It’s intentionally denying yourself a joyous experience for no other reason than showing you slavery to you superstitions. This is not to say that there isn’t something to be said for asceticism, its just bringing religion into it is pointless.

And studies that dragon have posted have negated the STD argument.

So basically the Christian establishment has hated sex since Paul, this is nothing new.

Iscariot
7th March 07, 03:55 PM
So basically the Christian establishment has hated sex since Paul, this is nothing new.
Paul only hated sex because he couldn't get any.

Yet another example of Christian methods not working? I feel a chorus of the I Told You So song coming on.

Chantress, dude, don't try an appeal to anyone from Bullshido using things you've learned from watching The Karate Kid. We don't sand the floor or paint the house. We train. The discipline we apply is to make ourselves better. This pledge system is denial, denial is never good, ask any decent therapist.

Question!
7th March 07, 04:07 PM
Denial, it's not just a river in Egypt anymore.

sochin101
7th March 07, 04:08 PM
Creepy.
And for the record, if I was seeing a girl who wanted to do this "Purity Pledge" thing... she'd definitely remain a virgin 'cos I wouldn't want to go near her psycho-daddy-loving-probably-deep-south-bible-punching-God-bothering ass.
Fo' reals.

mrblackmagic
7th March 07, 04:11 PM
Creepy.
And for the record, if I was seeing a girl who wanted to do this "Purity Pledge" thing... she'd definitely remain a virgin 'cos I wouldn't want to go near her psycho-daddy-loving-probably-deep-south-bible-punching-God-bothering ass.
Fo' reals.

http://images.askmen.com/top-99/2006/pictures/jessica-simpson-pics.jpg

Dagon Akujin
7th March 07, 04:15 PM
Didn't both Jessica and Brittney pledge to remain virgins?

In other words, that's scientific evidence that those things are for lying bitch butt-fucking retard whores.

Dagon

sochin101
7th March 07, 04:17 PM
http://images.askmen.com/top-99/2006/pictures/jessica-simpson-pics.jpg

You make a very convincing argument...
It would still creep me out to think that the girl would "exchange rings and have a first dance with her father".
Tell you what, you set me up with Ms Simpson, and I'll see if I can suppress revulsion and wreak havoc in/up/around her.
Deal?

mrblackmagic
7th March 07, 04:31 PM
Didn't both Jessica and Brittney pledge to remain virgins?

In other words, that's scientific evidence that those things are for lying bitch butt-fucking retard whores.

Dagon

Jessica was a definite until she "lost" her ring on tour or something.

bob
7th March 07, 04:36 PM
Since most of us here are boys, ask yourself this question - why aren't teenage boys pledging their virginity to their mothers? How would you have felt if your mum had asked you to pledge your virginity to her in a ceremony?

polishillusion
7th March 07, 04:40 PM
you know, i do believe in saving virginity until marriage. a lot fo people are jsut so fucking stupid about it.

mrblackmagic
7th March 07, 04:41 PM
Boys are expected to go stick their dick into anything warm and......well just accomdating.

I would dare say that is a paradox.

sochin101
7th March 07, 04:42 PM
Since most of us here are boys, ask yourself this question - why aren't teenage boys pledging their virginity to their mothers? How would you have felt if your mum had asked you to pledge your virginity to her in a ceremony?
I'd assume that she'd finally got sick of my bed teetering atop a mountain of porn-mags and decided this was the best way to stop me from ever, and I mean EVER, gaining an erection again!

Question!
7th March 07, 07:29 PM
Sorry, sochin101 but this is the digital age.

WarPhalange
8th March 07, 12:15 AM
Are you sure, I seem to recall reading self-preservation was more important by a large amount .

Ok.

So the only solution is to threaten those girls with death if they have sex. Kill one off immediately as an example and to show you mean business.

bob
8th March 07, 02:41 AM
I'd assume that she'd finally got sick of my bed teetering atop a mountain of porn-mags and decided this was the best way to stop me from ever, and I mean EVER, gaining an erection again!

If my thoughts have stifled one of your erections today then I go to sleep knowing I've achieved something.

Kiko
8th March 07, 07:12 AM
About the only half intelligent things in this thread, (besides what Yik, Chantress and Blackmagic observes) are the going fishing with Dad. You guys (read boys/males ) don't want to hear it, but it's just not worth it most of the time. Sure, sex can range from pleasurable, fun to amazing and soul stirring - whether you believe you have a soul or not - but if it's just for the hell of it with a guy who's really going to have very little impact on your life, other than possibly being the father of the child you aren't ready for or sharing some STD then it's a no brainer.

I won't suggest my daughters take such pledges, but I will be honest with them about the consequences of living for the moment. No one asked me to though it was expected and suggested that I wait. Considering some of the choices I made, I'm damned lucky they didn't turn out much worse.

Instant gratification really isn't much better than having a bit of self control and self respect. Hell, most instant anything isn't as good as the stuff made from scratch that takes a long time to make.

billy sol hurok
8th March 07, 07:59 AM
Ok.

So the only solution is to threaten those girls with death if they have sex. Kill one off immediately as an example and to show you mean business.

That's what I said (http://www.sociocide.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1222326&postcount=9), Grasshoppa.

WarPhalange
8th March 07, 09:48 AM
Really?

billy sol hurok
8th March 07, 10:41 AM
Really?
Pretty much. Not familiar with the evilly misnomered phenomenon of "honor killing" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing)?


Human Rights Watch defines "honor killings" as follows:


Honour crimes are acts of violence, usually murder, committed by male family members against female family members, who are perceived to have brought dishonor upon the family. A woman can be targeted by (individuals within) her family for a variety of reasons, including: refusing to enter into an arranged marriage, being the victim of a sexual assault, seeking a divorce — even from an abusive husband — or (allegedly) committing adultery. The mere perception that a woman has behaved in a specific way to "dishonor" her family, is sufficient to trigger an attack.[3]


For example, honor killings can sometimes target those who choose boyfriends, lovers or spouses outside of their family's ethnic and/or religious community. Some women who adopt the customs (or religion) of an outside group, may also be more likely to be victims.[2] Furthermore, in certain cultures a raped single woman will garner no bride price if she marries, and thus be considered "worthless" to the family. There is some evidence that homosexuality can also be grounds for honor killing by relatives. Several cases have been suspected but not confirmed. There is also a documented case of a gay Jordanian man who was shot (but not fatally) by his brother.[4]

sochin101
8th March 07, 11:43 AM
Sorry, sochin101 but this is the digital age.
Yup, damn good point.
Replace stacks of wank-mags with cases of cd-r discs laden with scud, then.

ICY
8th March 07, 02:15 PM
Instant gratification really isn't much better than having a bit of self control and self respect.

If all young girls were virgins, and all older women were in monogamous relationships, then it follows that all young men would be self-loathing, worthless pieces of shit. I know this from experience. To be a man and have self-respect means to NOT be a virgin.

<-----24 year old virgin

<-----Victimized by indoctrination

<-----Would like to gun down every bible thumping faggot he ever encountered for obvious reasons

bob
8th March 07, 03:41 PM
About the only half intelligent things in this thread, (besides what Yik, Chantress and Blackmagic observes) are the going fishing with Dad. You guys (read boys/males ) don't want to hear it, but it's just not worth it most of the time. Sure, sex can range from pleasurable, fun to amazing and soul stirring - whether you believe you have a soul or not - but if it's just for the hell of it with a guy who's really going to have very little impact on your life, other than possibly being the father of the child you aren't ready for or sharing some STD then it's a no brainer.

I won't suggest my daughters take such pledges, but I will be honest with them about the consequences of living for the moment. No one asked me to though it was expected and suggested that I wait. Considering some of the choices I made, I'm damned lucky they didn't turn out much worse.

Instant gratification really isn't much better than having a bit of self control and self respect. Hell, most instant anything isn't as good as the stuff made from scratch that takes a long time to make.

I can't really argue with any of this, but the essential difference is that you're crediting your daughters with some intelligence and giving them the facts, rather than laying a rather creepy ritual on them to try to manipulate them.

Kiko
8th March 07, 05:07 PM
Their grades suggest that they are intelligent. I do want to be as honest with them as I can be. I was also recalling something that my father said to me once. I was listening to some sappy pop music and he offered me the observation that 'you know, love isn't always like that - it can be less romantic and more forceful and passionate'. I'm not sure I fully understood his comment at the time, wanting to remain in my teenage musical interlude. I certainly appreciate it now.

It's not a bad thing that human beings have such a strong urge toward continuing their existance as a species. But we're thinking animals.

Sure, guys may not view each other as men until they've lost their virginity, but you sure don't view women as ladies anymore. The eternal double standard is a win-win for you, but not for us.

Robot Jesus
8th March 07, 05:36 PM
Sure, guys may not view each other as men until they've lost their virginity, but you sure don't view women as ladies anymore. The eternal double standard is a win-win for you, but not for us.

I’m not certain what you mean by this, do you mean that men only value a virgin. or that men no longer view women as what could be characterized as ladylike (I’m thinking Victorian view on femininity)

Kiko
8th March 07, 05:42 PM
Experienced guys are admired by one another, but women who've slept around are sluts, right? I think that's what I mean.

Robot Jesus
8th March 07, 06:09 PM
I don’t know what women think about themselves but experience is appreciated by men.

This is not so say that women who sleep around are not considered whores, but rather it’s just more complicated.

Kiko
8th March 07, 06:35 PM
I think that's a big part of it, RJ. I'm not naive enough to think every sexual experience has to be meaningful or special, but at its best it can be a very positive sharing of intimacy. I'd prefer to strive for that - and to impart that to my daughters and admire similar practices. I'm not a big fan of fear or intimidation. Self image is an area that needs work from what I've seen of pop culture though. *shudder*

ICY
9th March 07, 09:02 PM
Experienced guys are admired by one another, but women who've slept around are sluts, right? I think that's what I mean.

I think it's more a matter of caution. Women who sleep with anything that walks on two legs are whores, experience isn't the issue, it's more who the experience is with.

Kiko
10th March 07, 07:05 AM
I think it's more a matter of caution. Women who sleep with anything that walks on two legs are whores, experience isn't the issue, it's more who the experience is with.

And guys who do the same... are just obeying their biological urges, or what? Is there a male equivalent of slut/whore? Even the impression that a woman has more partners/experience creates an image and it's not a pretty one, is it? Double standard which needs to be changed.

Shawarma
10th March 07, 07:12 AM
<-----24 year old virgin
Somehow, this explains so much.

But how can you be a virgin with such an awesome-ass 'fro? Girls in your 'hood obviously don't know cool when they see it.

Kiko
10th March 07, 07:14 AM
Get with the program! Recent pics indicate the 'fro is gone... Which might explain things...

I love these little dots!....

Shawarma
10th March 07, 07:15 AM
Oh shit, he's NEVER gonna get laid froless!

billy sol hurok
10th March 07, 07:31 AM
Penis. Vagina. Now!


*crickets*


Aw hell, DAYoung's incantation worked . . .

ICY
10th March 07, 05:46 PM
And guys who do the same... are just obeying their biological urges, or what? Is there a male equivalent of slut/whore? Even the impression that a woman has more partners/experience creates an image and it's not a pretty one, is it? Double standard which needs to be changed.

Sorry, you misunderstood me, I mean, any PERSON who is indiscriminant in their sexual dealings is dirty and nasty. Experience doesn't equal nastiness, but randomly fucking people is a nasty way to gain experience, IMO. You can be experienced with other clean, intelligent, cautious people and that in no way makes you nasty.

I think the attitude towards men and women is similar these days, but one fact will always remain:

The man who sleeps around unprotected may get a disease, but he will never get pregnant, so the woman who engages in the same behaviour IS the bigger fool.

Kiko
10th March 07, 07:50 PM
I did, but now you're clear. We're on the same page. Unfortunately there are many foolish women out there. Back to that self image thing and some good healthy caution.

ICY
10th March 07, 11:13 PM
Unfortunately there are many foolish women out there.

Here's to hoping. ;)

Sun Wukong
12th March 07, 02:39 PM
Oy VEY! That whole thing creeps me out big time.

AAAhmed46
13th March 07, 12:19 AM
Pledging virginity...ive never understood that.

WarPhalange
13th March 07, 12:33 AM
If I pledged my virginity to my dad... he'd be indifferent. But that's because the house could be burning down, and he'd still be indifferent.

If we followed the rules so I had to pledge to my mom, she'd just laugh.

And laugh.

And tell her friends, and they'd all laugh.

And she'd probably put my hand in warm water while I was asleep. :(

AAAhmed46
13th March 07, 01:18 AM
Pledge your virginity to me virgin!

I care!

Robot Jesus
13th March 07, 01:50 AM
And guys who do the same... are just obeying their biological urges, or what? Is there a male equivalent of slut/whore?


http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1389763&postcount=1

DAYoung
13th March 07, 04:41 AM
Alex. Naked.

*shudder*

Kiko
13th March 07, 06:14 AM
A yes/no or description would have been enough. Did I ask for examples? DID I?

Yiktin Voxbane
13th March 07, 07:13 AM
Virginity is curable you know ...

WarPhalange
13th March 07, 11:44 AM
I'm actually trying to develop a vaccine for virginity, but the damn FDA is taking too long to certify it.