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jnp
16th September 06, 02:40 PM
I have no time for this forum as it is beneath my quotidian intellect, but I cannot access my thread bearing the same moniker over on Bullshido as GBS is currently closed. Since I'm an avid reader, it is my distasteful duty to grace you plebians with my presence.

^^^There, that introduction should make me some new friends.

Now on topic, what BOOKS are you reading right now. A brief description of the book is nice but not necessary.

I'll start. I'm currently reading Hand Me Midnight by Daigan Lueck. It's a collection of his postmodernist poetry. This collection is bathroom reading for me as I have a hard time reading more than one postmodern poem at a time. They just don't make that big of an impression if I read more than one, not to mention I remember the individual poems more this way. Although it could be that I'm just stupid.

I'm also reading Queen of the South by Arturo Perez-Reverte.

I did perform multiple searches to see if I could find my thread here on Sociocide, but could not. Also if this is the wrong forum please see my disclaimer regarding my intelligence above.

Steve
16th September 06, 02:51 PM
I believe that you can still reply to threads in GBS on Bullshido, you just can't start new threads....?

Phrost should be able to answer that question for us.

Glad you could make it to Sociocide, lots of charming folks here (other than former Bullshidokas).

On the subject of books... I'd chime in but I'm completely illiterate.

Iscariot
16th September 06, 03:16 PM
God Emperor of Dune by Frank Herbert, 4th book in the Original Dune canon.

The novel follows the end of the reign of Muad'Dib's son Leto II (The titular God Emperor) and serves as a waystation between the previous three books (The Muad'Dib trilogy) and the later books in the series. Regarded by myself and the majority of Dune fans I have spoken to about it as the best book in the series.

Neildo
16th September 06, 03:17 PM
I like pulp fiction crap. That stuff is way better than TV.

In particular, a series of books written by Lee Child, about an ex-army MP who goes around kicking ass like Caine in Kung Fu. Good stuff. Just finished 'The Enemy' in three days. Bought it at a garage sale for 2 bucks, as I don't like paying full price ($12+tax) for a paperback I'm gonna breeze through in a few days.

www.leechild.com

Also, a series of pulp by John Sandford, about a Hard-ass cop in Minneapolis. Well written suspense and stuff. He also kicks some fierce ass. Fun books.

http://www.johnsandford.org/

edit: I miss the 'what are you listening to right now' thread. Been thinking about starting it here, but not sure if i should bother.

Artful Dentures
16th September 06, 03:52 PM
Forest Mage by Robin Hobb. She's easily one of the best Fantasy writers today. If you like Fantasy that DOESN"T read like a bad game of D and D and DOESN"T go on with out end over 13 books. She's the one.

Diggler McFeely
16th September 06, 04:32 PM
I like disclaimers. They save me lots of time.

Shawarma
16th September 06, 04:56 PM
Racing the Enemy by Tsuyoshi Hasegawa - an account of why dropping the nuclear bombs on Japan WASN'T the primary factor that made them surrender. Very interesting.

Also gotten 2/3 through the Koran now - Getting a bit fed up with the Grace of God by now, but I'm on a jihad to finish the blasted thing.

Odacon
16th September 06, 05:22 PM
"The Troubles : Ireland's ordeal" By Tim Pat Coogan. A little too pro IRA but if even half the details are true it's kind of depressing how people were treated just for being catholic.

Lights Out
16th September 06, 07:37 PM
"On Cold Blood", by Truman Capote, was on my "to read" list for a very long time.

WarPhalange
16th September 06, 08:46 PM
I haven't read a book in ages. I read slowly and I'm lazy I can't find the time.

Lights Out
16th September 06, 09:06 PM
Why don't the strike tags work here? Time to whine, BRB.

Japuma
16th September 06, 09:57 PM
The Dresden Files series by Jim Butcher. Right now i'm on book six. So far its a pretty entertaining read. Books are about the only professional Wizard listed in chicago and the cases he takes. Has cool stuff like vampires, werewolves, dragons and evil old gods in it. As dorky as it all sounds it writen in a very modern way so its not the same old vampires and crap like that.

RunningDog
16th September 06, 10:37 PM
I just finished On Beauty by Zadie Smith.
It's about the families of two fueding university professors, their sexual indescretions and mixed-up lives.
Good book.

Just started Jane Eyre. The Brontes pwn again.

VikingPower
17th September 06, 05:24 PM
I'm ripping through the whole series of Spenser novels by Robert Parker right now.

Boyd
20th September 06, 01:09 PM
During the course of the Kansas City Shuffle, I read:

Lolita
Brave New World
Slaughterhouse Five
The Grapes of Wrath
Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close
Ulysses
The Old Man and the Sea

Currently I'm read Death of a Salesman. Do you ever wonder if, for the first two months of marriage, Arthur Miller woke up every morning and said "I can't believe I'm married to Marilyn Monroe"? And if, for the remainder of their marriage he woke up every morning and said "I can't believe I'm married to Marilyn Monroe"?

Truculent Sheep
21st September 06, 02:54 PM
"The Casebook Of Carnacki - Ghost Finder" by W. H. Hodgson. Strangely overlooked, probably because the author (who also practised Judo) snuffed it in WW1. A shame, as he was on his way to making a name for himself.

BTW, One of his novels, The House On The Borderland was ripped off shamelessly by HP Lovecraft, as you'll know if you've read Hodgson's book and then the Mythos.

Next up is 'Saturday' - a pretentious pile of shit by Ian McEwan that I will have to teach to my students soon. Yay!

kungfujew
21st September 06, 03:16 PM
A collection of essays by George Orwell.

DAYoung
21st September 06, 03:40 PM
During the course of the Kansas City Shuffle, I read:

Lolita
Brave New World
Slaughterhouse Five
The Grapes of Wrath
Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close
Ulysses
The Old Man and the Sea

Currently I'm read Death of a Salesman. Do you ever wonder if, for the first two months of marriage, Arthur Miller woke up every morning and said "I can't believe I'm married to Marilyn Monroe"? And if, for the remainder of their marriage he woke up every morning and said "I can't believe I'm married to Marilyn Monroe"?

Ulysses - fuck, what a clever, epic and hilarious book.

Old Man and the Sea - brilliant, a gripping but humble little tale.

Death of a Salesman - still relevant.

Slaughterhouse Five - must get around to reading that...

Currently reading or read recently:

1. Guy Debord, Society of the Spectacle
2. Benjamin Franklin, 'Modest Inquiry in the Nature and Necessity of Paper Currency'
3. Thomas Mann, Death in Venice
4. Seamus Heaney, District and Circle
5. Nikos Kazantzakis, England.
6. Assorted academic papers on aesthetics, museums and attention

DAYoung
21st September 06, 03:41 PM
A collection of essays by George Orwell.

I read his 'Bookshop Memories' recently. Hilarious and thoughtful. I used to work in a second-hand bookshop, so...

Veldriss
21st September 06, 04:49 PM
Great Expectations for class, though I read it often for pleasure.

I've got some chicklit on the go for getting to sleep, and George Orwell's 1984 for pleasure.

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
21st September 06, 05:42 PM
2. Benjamin Franklin, 'Modest Inquiry in the Nature and Necessity of Paper Currency'

Coins are heavy.

The End

Shawarma
21st September 06, 06:00 PM
Last book I read: Executioner Pierrepoint, by Albert Pierrepoint. Read it for an insight into the life of a man who took life for a living as well as the views on capital punishment of a man who'd personally killed 400 people for the British Crown.

Spoiler: He was against it.

T3hJudoChop
22nd September 06, 01:47 PM
The Remains of the Day-Kazuo Ishiguro

mrblackmagic
22nd September 06, 02:07 PM
Confessions of a Mask- Yukio Mishima

Teh El Macho
22nd September 06, 03:31 PM
- Judo Unleashed
- The Draco's Tavern by Larry Niven
- The Ancestor's Tale: A Pilgrimage to the Dawn of Evolution by Richard Dawkins
- Penthouse... hmmm, never mind.

DAYoung
22nd September 06, 03:49 PM
- Penthouse... hmmm, never mind.

"Blacks had sex with a partner about as often as whites, although Hispanics had slightly higher rates." - Sex in America

Teh El Macho
22nd September 06, 04:02 PM
"Blacks had sex with a partner about as often as whites, although Hispanics had slightly higher rates." - Sex in AmericaSex in America by Edward Launmann????

I actually believe in that, that Hispanics do it at higher rates.... but just slightly. Also, I totally believe people don't do it as often as we believe (or the media portrait us). Sex should be a part of our daily breakfast.

Anyways, in cases of loneliness, nothing beats Penthouse!!!

DAYoung
22nd September 06, 04:11 PM
Sex in America by Edward Launmann????

I actually believe in that, that Hispanics do it at higher rates.... but just slightly. Also, I totally believe people don't do it as often as we believe (or the media portrait us). Sex should be a part of our daily breakfast.

Anyways, in cases of loneliness, nothing beats Penthouse!!!

Yep, Laumann and others.

Sex is now the ultimate simulacrum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Baudrillard#Simulacra_and_Simulation).

As for Hispanics having slightly more sex, any suggestions as to why this might be? And no, it can't be: 'Cause we're just slightly more hawt.'

MaverickZ
22nd September 06, 05:04 PM
On Sparta by Plutarch

DAYoung
22nd September 06, 05:11 PM
On Sparta by Plutarch

Any thoughts so far?

Teh El Macho
22nd September 06, 06:52 PM
Yep, Laumann and others.

Sex is now the ultimate simulacrum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Baudrillard#Simulacra_and_Simulation).

As for Hispanics having slightly more sex, any suggestions as to why this might be? And no, it can't be: 'Cause we're just slightly more hawt.'
Yeah, the "hawt" thing is overrated. Hawt women are everywhere independently of race. I think it has to do with culture I guess.

Hispanics are supposed to be more "conservative", and non-Hispanics tend to think of that in terms of sexuality. But that conservatism has more to do with religion and family (.ie. our concept of family is "extended" not nuclear... and so on.)

But when it comes to sexuality, the culture is more erotic, not sexual, erotic. These are my observations from living in a region with a highly concentrated Hispanic population from many countries living side to side with non-Hispanics. Other people may want to share their observations (which may differ from mine).

From an early age, Hispanic women are taught to be flirty, coquettish. They seem to pay more attention to what they wear in terms of clothes and makeup than women from other communities (as far as I've observed.)

Hispanic men seem to be the same - they tend to be more "metro", and they like to play the "Rodolfo Valentino" card even if they are uglier that testicular cancer. Whether she is Cameron Diaz or a fat ass fuck, whether he is Antonio Banderas or "Nacho Libre", both genders like to play (and must play) their erotic cards.

This doesn't translate to be better lovers. I've met Latinas who suck in bed... in a bad way, and I've heard Latina women complaining their men don't know what the fuck they are doing.

But regardless, eroticism is deeply ingrained in the culture, and I think that's a factor in the frequency of sex. This may be particularly true with Brazilians and Hispanics from the Caribbean Islands.

I may be wrong, but that's been my impression so far.

BTW, Hispanic woman tend to be fucking drama queens like no others!!! Just to think of it, that shit gives me a headache... UGH!!!!

DAYoung
22nd September 06, 06:57 PM
Yeah, the "hawt" thing is overrated. Hawt women are everywhere independently of race. I think it has to do with culture I guess.

Hispanics are supposed to be more "conservative", and non-Hispanics tend to think of that in terms of sexuality. But that conservatism has more to do with religion and family (.ie. our concept of family is "extended" not nuclear... and so on.)

But when it comes to sexuality, the culture is more erotic, not sexual, erotic. These are my observations from living in a region with a highly concentrated Hispanic population from many countries living side to side with non-Hispanics. Other people may want to share their observations (which may differ from mine).

From an early age, Hispanic women are taught to be flirty, coquettish. They seem to pay more attention to what they wear in terms of clothes and makeup than women from other communities (as far as I've observed.)

Hispanic men seem to be the same - they tend to be more "metro", and they like to play the "Rodolfo Valentino" card even if they are uglier that testicular cancer. Whether she is Cameron Diaz or a fat ass fuck, whether he is Antonio Banderas or "Nacho Libre", both genders like to play (and must play) their erotic cards.

This doesn't translate to be better lovers. I've met Latinas who suck in bed... in a bad way, and I've heard Latina women complaining their men don't know what the fuck they are doing.

But regardless, eroticism is deeply ingrained in the culture, and I think that's a factor in the frequency of sex. This may be particularly true with Brazilians and Hispanics from the Caribbean Islands.

I may be wrong, but that's been my impression so far.

BTW, Hispanic woman tend to be fucking drama queens like no others!!! Just to think of it, that shit gives me a headache... UGH!!!!

Hmmm. Fascinating - thanks, Macho. The question is: do these characteristics change when in an Anglo-Saxon (or non-Latino) country? The Italians and Greeks in AUstralia are very different to the Italians in Italy, and the Greeks in Greece. Are the Latinos in America different to folks from down south?

MaverickZ
22nd September 06, 07:02 PM
Any thoughts so far?

I like it so far, about 1/2 way done. The Spartan culture really fascinates me, so I have a bit of a biased opinion. Spends a lot of time talking about specific kings. But all in all pretty good.

DAYoung
22nd September 06, 07:05 PM
I like it so far, about 1/2 way done. The Spartan culture really fascinates me, so I have a bit of a biased opinion. Spends a lot of time talking about specific kings. But all in all pretty good.

What fascinates you about them? I've always seen them as fearsome but a little dull (homoerotic boys' gangs notwithstanding). All martial practicality and no literature, painting or drama (of any merit).

MaverickZ
22nd September 06, 07:11 PM
What fascinates you about them? I've always seen them as fearsome but a little dull (homoerotic boys' gangs notwithstanding). All martial practicality and no literature, painting or drama (of any merit).

Well, I really got into it after reading Gates of Fire, about Thermopylae. What really fascinates me is their really simple way of life, the king + elders governement (which reminds a lot of the separation of powers in the US, executive and legislative branches), and the state of women in Sparta. It seems like women in Sparta were more equal than in any other city state in Greece. Plus their views on things like honor, and doing the right thing. The anecdote about the old man at the Olympic games and only the Spartans letting him sit down really resonated with me. Of course they had their issues too; mistreatment of helots, their little secret police thing, some other bits.

They were actually quite big on music and singing though, that was their one big artistic aspect. Warrior cultures in general fascinate me. It's a bit difficult to describe.... I guess the fact that they weren't pussies is cool too.

DAYoung
22nd September 06, 07:18 PM
Well, I really got into it after reading Gates of Fire, about Thermopylae. What really fascinates me is their really simple way of life, the king + elders governement (which reminds a lot of the separation of powers in the US, executive and legislative branches), and the state of women in Sparta. It seems like women in Sparta were more equal than in any other city state in Greece. Plus their views on things like honor, and doing the right thing. The anecdote about the old man at the Olympic games and only the Spartans letting him sit down really resonated with me. Of course they had their issues too; mistreatment of helots, their little secret police thing, some other bits.

They were actually quite big on music and singing though, that was their one big artistic aspect. Warrior cultures in general fascinate me. It's a bit difficult to describe.... I guess the fact that they weren't pussies is cool too.

Yes, I'd forgotten about the gender equality. I remember reading something about it not being so straightforward, but the general impression is of a much more equitable state for women.

All the Greek city-states had art, but my preference is obviously for the innovation of the Athenians - they surpassed all states (while still being tough and thoughtful - see Pericles' funeral speech/propaganda).

As for Thermopylae - fucking incredible.

Teh El Macho
22nd September 06, 07:21 PM
Hmmm. Fascinating - thanks, Macho. The question is: do these characteristics change when in an Anglo-Saxon (or non-Latino) country? The Italians and Greeks in AUstralia are very different to the Italians in Italy, and the Greeks in Greece. Are the Latinos in America different to folks from down south?Yes, they are. They are less open in their sexuality. Women are still flirty, and people are still erotic, but we are forced to live under double standards.

Folks down there still pretend to live in a more puritan environment, expect their women to be virgins until marriage, double standards, shit like that. Women are still flirty, and people still have sex, but double standards remain.

For example, it's very common for single adults to live with their parents until marriage. Very common. They pay rent like anybody else, but living under the same roof, or in a house virtually next to their parents' is not that uncommon (the extended family thing.)

So you can't just bring your girlfriend to your place to have sex if you live with your parents. Your mother will object, and your father probably will, too. It is taboo to bring a woman and have sex with her under your mother's roof.

Independently of how old you are, you must obey your parents. Period.

And if your girlfriend lives with their parents or nearby, it's even worse. There is no way you can go and spend the night at her place. At best, her parents will throw a tantrum. At worse, you can get a bullet in the ass... really.

When I was 15, I was once chased away by pissed off, machete wielding father.

And one of my uncles in his teens had to run away to another city because he was fucking this girl and her parents found out. My Dad was in the military back then, and had to hide him for weeks until the situation diffused.

So what happens is that sometimes you have to rent a motel to do the deed.

Motels are cheap btw and are synonymous to "places to have sex discreetely". The motel clerk will discretely show you the way and may even walk away or turn around to allow your girlfriend to enter the motel without being seen. So whenever you get the chance, you got to fuck each others' brains out....

... the "forbidden fruit" thing makes it even more enjoyable.

In larger cities, that is not so much of a complication as single adults tend to live away from their parents more, but from midsize cities to small towns, it's a fucking complication. People have to keep appearances even though they are having as much prematiral sex as Hispanics who live abroad.

I don't think that's much of a problem in Brazil and Argentina (they are more open), but in the rest of Latin America, sex before marriage is a logistical nightmare.

MaverickZ
22nd September 06, 07:23 PM
Yes, I'd forgotten about the gender equality. I remember reading something about it not being so straightforward, but the general impression is of a much more equitable state for women.

All the Greek city-states had art, but my preference is obviously for the innovation of the Athenians - they surpassed all states (while still being tough and thoughtful - see Pericles' funeral speech/propaganda).

As for Thermopylae - fucking incredible.

Yeah, I'd never take away anything from the accomplishments of Athenians. Top notch navy.

The other thing that really draws me into Spartan culture is their idea of brotherhood. That all spartans had to watch out for each other. Really well seen in their approach to the shield use in wars, in that it's not there to guard just you, but more importantly the guy to your left. I think knowing that, no matter how much shit hits the fan, there's a guy right next to you who WILL watch your back is what made them so fearless. And I think that's part of why they were so successful in wars for the most part.

After reading Gates of Fire I went a bit nuts actually, bought Frank Miller's 300 (which plays fast and loose with facts, but oh well) and saw The 300 Spartans from the 1960s (pretty awful). Bought On Sparta, Herodotus' Histories, and Keegan's The Western Way of War. I've got a lot of reading to do.

Greese
23rd September 06, 02:50 AM
Bitch: In Praise of Difficult Women by Elizabeht Wurtzel.

DAYoung
23rd September 06, 04:03 AM
The other thing that really draws me into Spartan culture is their idea of brotherhood. That all spartans had to watch out for each other. Really well seen in their approach to the shield use in wars, in that it's not there to guard just you, but more importantly the guy to your left. I think knowing that, no matter how much shit hits the fan, there's a guy right next to you who WILL watch your back is what made them so fearless. And I think that's part of why they were so successful in wars for the most part.

Do you, uh, like gladiator films?


After reading Gates of Fire I went a bit nuts actually, bought Frank Miller's 300 (which plays fast and loose with facts, but oh well) and saw The 300 Spartans from the 1960s (pretty awful). Bought On Sparta, Herodotus' Histories, and Keegan's The Western Way of War. I've got a lot of reading to do.

Fantastic. Next step: homosexuality and brotherhood amongst the samurai. By the way, Herodotus' writings are excellent - he was a fine historian.

Shawarma
23rd September 06, 09:12 AM
Finished Racing the Enemy. Will begin reading some more Laurens van der Post alongside the Koran when I get the time. LVDP rules.

PoleFighter
23rd September 06, 06:43 PM
Currently reading Oblivion by David Foster Wallace. It's a collection of short stories. I've only finished the first one, "Mr. Squishy", which concerns the marketing of a new chocolate bar and is written in an amazing stream of concious thought style.

Before that I finished Bukowski's Post Office in one sitting. Loved it.

My reading list before that was, if I remember correctly:

- Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance (can never remember the guys name)
- Some swedish lit you never heard of
- White Noise by Don Delilo
- The Complete Emily Dickinson
- Notes from the underground by Dostojevsky
- The Prince by Machiavelli
- The Wu-Tang Manual by The RZA

PoleFighter
23rd September 06, 06:52 PM
During the course of the Kansas City Shuffle, I read:

Lolita
Brave New World
Slaughterhouse Five
The Grapes of Wrath
Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close
Ulysses
The Old Man and the Sea



Great list.

Lolita is one of my all time favorites. I judge peoples character based on what they have to say about it.

Brave New World has some problems, but I still love it. I'll be first in line for soma when that shit hits the market.

Slaughterhouse Five was one of the first books my parents gave me, so I owe a lot of my love of reading to that book.

I remember starting Ulysses a few years ago but getting turned off for some reason. Everytime I pick it up I'm just not in the mood for a brick. I need twelve months between those.

Lights Out
23rd September 06, 07:09 PM
Too bad Lolita hasn't been properly translated to the big screen. Both versions (the Kubrik one and the other starred by Jeremy Iron) failed at portraying the ironic character of the the protagonist.

AAAhmed46
23rd September 06, 07:10 PM
Yeah, I'd never take away anything from the accomplishments of Athenians. Top notch navy.

The other thing that really draws me into Spartan culture is their idea of brotherhood. That all spartans had to watch out for each other. Really well seen in their approach to the shield use in wars, in that it's not there to guard just you, but more importantly the guy to your left. I think knowing that, no matter how much shit hits the fan, there's a guy right next to you who WILL watch your back is what made them so fearless. And I think that's part of why they were so successful in wars for the most part.

After reading Gates of Fire I went a bit nuts actually, bought Frank Miller's 300 (which plays fast and loose with facts, but oh well) and saw The 300 Spartans from the 1960s (pretty awful). Bought On Sparta, Herodotus' Histories, and Keegan's The Western Way of War. I've got a lot of reading to do.


I read somehwere that the reason Sparta 'started fading' was because they could not grow fast enough to control domestic affairs while expanding properly and could not innovate to new techniques of war and tactics, techology.

How far could they have gone however if they did innovate? i wonder......

I hear genghis khan, who would bring in all sorts of arabian war machines and learn how to use them or how he would get foreign blacksmiths to teach his people thier methods when he conquered so and so group.


EDIT: I hear thier 'arts' also ''stagnated'' as in nothing really changed in those terms either

MaverickZ
24th September 06, 12:56 AM
I read somehwere that the reason Sparta 'started fading' was because they could not grow fast enough to control domestic affairs while expanding properly and could not innovate to new techniques of war and tactics, techology.

How far could they have gone however if they did innovate? i wonder......

I hear genghis khan, who would bring in all sorts of arabian war machines and learn how to use them or how he would get foreign blacksmiths to teach his people thier methods when he conquered so and so group.


EDIT: I hear thier 'arts' also ''stagnated'' as in nothing really changed in those terms either

Well, one of the main reasons for their fall, from the little reading I've done so far, is that one of their kings decided to give up on the Spartan lifestyle. It all went downhill from there. But this opinion is subject to change as I read more.

AAAhmed46
24th September 06, 07:51 PM
Here's something else i found on another forum talking about "Gates of fire"







Actually the problem was simple: The Spartiates (IE: The ones you think of when you hear "spartans") were always a small minority (a few thousands, I think around 20,000 at the most) of the population, and had to constantly keep the rest of the populace down. This meant that in maintaining a hegemony was really beyond them: They weren't going to be able to incorporate others. (the weakness of the greek polis as a whole....) and they didn't have the manpower to both dominate abroad and keep the peace at home.

They *could* not innovate: To innovate would have to mean changing the way they fought wars, and hence the way they created their soldiers. And this was unacceptable to the Spartiates. Hence they lost.






:

The biggest problem they faced was a decline in the sheer number of Spartans. Only men of a certain level of wealth were permitted to enter the training programs that produced the fully trained Spartan warriors. Their numbers went in permenant decline after the wars with Athens as farms became more and more consolidated, and fewer and fewer men were able to qualify for that training.

When you combine the declining numbers of men entering training with battlefield losses and the lure of serving as mercinaries in the various greek wars, it was the beginning of the end.

Traditional hoplite warfare remained feasible for years after their defeat by Thebes as is evidenced by the effectiveness of the Greek hoplites against Alexander during his conquest of Persia.

jnp
8th October 06, 02:11 PM
One Bird One Stone: 108 American Zen Stories by Sean Murphy

Shawarma
8th October 06, 02:47 PM
Finished reading Starship Troopers (lol, strawman) and then finished reading Brothers Karamazov (lol, classic). Am now reading Fight Club.

Tef-the-Persian
8th October 06, 04:27 PM
I hate Lolita. All of you may judge me as you wish. I also sort of dislike-sort of like Speak, Memory, and sort-of-hate, sort-of-have-to-respect Nabakov. (I think the only Nabakov book I read without feeling, "Eh...what a prick." was Numbers in the Dark).

I'm reading Africa: A Modern History, by Guy Arnold. The anti-colonial bias is (FIGHT THE POWER!) evident. I like the book.

The Tropic of Capricorn - Henry Miller. I feel everyone needs to read Henry Miller as a test of sanity.

History of the Thirteen - Balzac. Paris as character.

The Watcher - Italo Calvino. Oh, Calvino, why do you need to be smarter than everyone else? ;/

The Uses of Literature - Calvino. I don't agree with a lot of Calvino's analysis. I think a lot of the time when he speaks of general things he speaks only of his own experience, but many people are guilty of that. (Me, for example). But...he's Calvino. And he's talking about literature. No-brainer. :/

Julius Caesar - Teh sp33r. Felt like a read.

Europe of the Ancien Regime - Focuses mostly on pre-revolutionary France, and Britain.

There are more, but I must go now and play Monopoly.

Shawarma
8th October 06, 04:29 PM
How do you people read so many books at the same time? I usually have 2 books at most at a time, one for enlightening, the other for amusement.

bob
8th October 06, 05:05 PM
Just finished:
Fast Food Nation - Eric Schlosser (I know I'm behind the times)

Off the Rails in Phnom Penh - account of expats in Cambodia (just got back from Thailand and Vietnam)

The Right Man - David Frum. Insider account of the first couple of years of GWB

Currently -
Long Way Down - Nick Hornby tackles suicide

Tef-the-Persian
8th October 06, 06:03 PM
How do you people read so many books at the same time? I usually have 2 books at most at a time, one for enlightening, the other for amusement.

How much time per day do you spend reading? I spend 4-6 hours. I was initially forced to read by my parents while very young. Ever since then, I've read 4-7 books per week. I can't really live without reading. It's one of those things I just naturally do.

Shawarma
8th October 06, 06:16 PM
hah, that would explain it. I spend 1-2, if I have the time.

Iscariot
8th October 06, 06:49 PM
How much time per day do you spend reading? I spend 4-6 hours. I was initially forced to read by my parents while very young. Ever since then, I've read 4-7 books per week. I can't really live without reading. It's one of those things I just naturally do.
I can't stand being forced to read anything, though often have to put novels away very quickly for the Adaptation sections of my course. I fluctuate between as little as minutes a day to many hours, it just depends on my work load and motivation more than on what I'm reading.

Steve
8th October 06, 06:54 PM
I just started inching my way through Foucault's Pendulum (http://www.amazon.com/Foucaults-Pendulum-Umberto-Eco/dp/0345418271/sr=8-2/qid=1160351532/ref=pd_bbs_2/102-4251636-9483354?ie=UTF8&s=books) by Umberto Eco.

VikingPower
8th October 06, 11:52 PM
Just started reading Joko Ninomiya's "My Journey in Karate: The Sabaki Way" and I'm about halfway through it.

jnp
10th October 06, 10:36 PM
How do you people read so many books at the same time? I usually have 2 books at most at a time, one for enlightening, the other for amusement.
Reading is both a discipline and a pleasure for me. I have books I read when I'm tired, books I find mentally stimulating and of course bathroom reading. I didn't start out this way. I used to read one book at a time. Over the years I would either misplace what I was reading at the moment or get bored with my current selection and start something else, but mostly the habit arose because I read every day and eventually a certain amount of randomness crept into my reading habits.

Oh yeah, I also read four or five novels recently. Of these The Da Vinci Code was the best read and it was merely a well written retread.

Seraphim
10th October 06, 10:50 PM
Macbeth

I only have time to read on the toilet :(

jill666
11th October 06, 07:06 PM
"On Cold Blood", by Truman Capote, was on my "to read" list for a very long time.

Odd that you said that- I just finished it. Now into Chuk Palahniuk "Stranger than Fiction". My favorite from him is definitely "Choke". I'm also in the middle of "The Razor's Edge"- again.

My husband just finished Cicero's "The Good Life" and is of the opinion I should read it. Now he's on "The Da Vinci Code". He rarely reads fiction, he's more into bios and old letters etc.

I've heard there's a translation of the Iliad that is the shit- anyone know which one I should be looking for?

DAYoung
11th October 06, 07:18 PM
Cicero is excellent. Not all of his arguments are very original, but there is always an air of genteel nobility, combined with a witty realism.

jill666
11th October 06, 07:30 PM
BTW, Zen and....Motorcycle Maintenance was by Robert Pirsig, if you actually care. How did you like Notes From the Underground?

Roland
11th October 06, 09:58 PM
I just started inching my way through Foucault's Pendulum (http://www.amazon.com/Foucaults-Pendulum-Umberto-Eco/dp/0345418271/sr=8-2/qid=1160351532/ref=pd_bbs_2/102-4251636-9483354?ie=UTF8&s=books) by Umberto Eco.

What do you think of it so far? Have you read any of his other books? I started reading it but i'm splitting my time between that and "The Idiot" by Fyodor Dostoevsky

Steve
11th October 06, 10:47 PM
What do you think of it so far? Have you read any of his other books? I started reading it but i'm splitting my time between that and "The Idiot" by Fyodor Dostoevsky

I'm only on page 111 and I like it quite a bit (reading it to pass time on the bus).

It is a difficult book for me since it references many things that I'm only slightly (and I mean slightly) familiar with, the philosophical stuff mostly and period related events that are before my time and on another continent. Other than that huge hurdle, I find the book quite witty and entertaining.

I haven't read any of his other books but I was a big fan of the movie adaptation of The Name of the Rose.

I wouldn't be able to split my time reading 'Pendulum' with anything else, it's hard enough to read it with a bunch of people conversing around me! So kudos to you, sir!

DAYoung
11th October 06, 10:54 PM
I found The Idiot very illuminating - the way the guilty and the tainted destroy themselves and one another in the face of goodness.

Roland
11th October 06, 11:01 PM
Yeah it's really hard fallowing both books, I'll probably stick with Focaults Pendulum for now. Just so i'm clear about this the whole beginning in the museum(ie him hiding in there after closing) it's preatty much irrelevant so far right? isn't alot of it a flash back? or am I confusing books again?

Steve
11th October 06, 11:13 PM
It seems to be a pivotal point that caused the narrative to be created by Casaubon...

From what I get, it's right before something amazing (for good or bad, tho those aren't exactly the right terms) happens, and Casaubon is explaining how he got there before he explains what happened.

It reminds me very much of how a lot of movies are set up, the bit of tension is showed at the beginning then flash back to how they got there before going back to show the climax.

Roland
11th October 06, 11:15 PM
I found The Idiot very illuminating - the way the guilty and the tainted destroy themselves and one another in the face of goodness.
I thought it was going to be slow at first but I got into preaty easy,though I sometimes confuse all the character names from time to time. I'm thinking of buying "Demons" after I finish it. Have you read it?

DAYoung
11th October 06, 11:16 PM
Eco is a smartarse. Whatever you think will happen, will happen strangely, or not at all. Twists, turns, and clever arsehattery - probably in Latin, Old German or Indo-European.

DAYoung
11th October 06, 11:17 PM
I thought it was going to be slow at first but I got into preaty easy,though I sometimes confuse all the character names from time to time. I'm thinking of buying "Demons" after I finish it. Have you read it?

Yes, it's also excellent - a cutting and gripping depiction of the revolutionary consciousness (without being as reactionary as Dostoyevsky actually was).

Steve
11th October 06, 11:21 PM
Eco is a smartarse. Whatever you think will happen, will happen strangely, or not at all. Twists, turns, and clever arsehattery - probably in Latin, Old German or Indo-European.

Indeed!

Since I enjoy conversing with smartasses, it's no wonder why I like the book!

DAYoung
11th October 06, 11:27 PM
I'm going to take that as a compliment.

http://www.norb.cwc.net/images/SMARTASS.JPG

Roland
11th October 06, 11:29 PM
It seems to be a pivotal point that caused the narrative to be created by Casaubon...

From what I get, it's right before something amazing (for good or bad, tho those aren't exactly the right terms) happens, and Casaubon is explaining how he got there before he explains what happened.

It reminds me very much of how a lot of movies are set up, the bit of tension is showed at the beginning then flash back to how they got there before going back to show the climax.

Thats what I was thinking, I wasn't saying it was irrelevant through the whole story just so far into the story, it probably going to be a lot more important towards the end. So yeah it's like a movie. How was the movie version of the rose. I haven't seen it or read the book. My dad introduced me to Umberto Eco when he was writing his Thesis.

Steve
11th October 06, 11:51 PM
I'm going to take that as a compliment.

http://www.norb.cwc.net/images/SMARTASS.JPG

lol, as you should (I'm including myself in that category too)!

Steve
12th October 06, 12:00 AM
Thats what I was thinking, I wasn't saying it was irrelevant through the whole story just so far into the story, it probably going to be a lot more important towards the end. So yeah it's like a movie. How was the movie version of the rose. I haven't seen it or read the book. My dad introduced me to Umberto Eco when he was writing his Thesis.

I gotcha, was what I thought you were saying.

I haven't seen Name of the Rose it in ages, but you can't go wrong with a movie starring Sean Conery and Christian Slater (lol).

Also, it has one of the first sex scenes I saw that didn't make me go ew!!

Disclaimer: I was eight when it came out, but I saw it a few years later.

Seriously, it's a pretty good movie. (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=7&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fast-rewind.com%2Frose.htm&ei=L8otRduALYfYgwPSuPzeCg&sig=__MVqvsNI7QkDtRZoNK_PM9yAuJZc=&sig2=OO5gZERSzhBi-nCg-Dtgog/)

Roland
12th October 06, 12:01 AM
lol, as you should (I'm including myself in that catagory too)!
What I'm not in the category! I might not be as smart as you guys but I'm at least twice the arse.

Steve
12th October 06, 12:08 AM
Okay, you can join the club!

Judah Maccabee
12th October 06, 02:12 AM
Social Marketing by Kotler et al.

Previously read, recently:

Reefer Madness by Eric Shlosser (Fast Food Nation guy)
Several Jack Reacher thrillers by Lee Child
What's the Matter with Kansas?...
Shitloads of articles on eating disorders and eating disorder prevention from 1990-2006

Body Image, Eating Disorders, and Obesity in Youth: Assessment, Prevention, and Treatment (Hardcover) by J. Kevin Thompson (Editor), Linda Smolak (Editor)

http://www.amazon.com/Image-Eating-Disorders-Obesity-Youth/dp/1557987580

Excerpts from various community psych books by Albee, Cowen, Jason, Glenwick, and so on.

Neo2006
12th October 06, 09:43 AM
I'm currently reading Lee Child's new Jack Reacher novel: The Hard Way.

The Reacher books are awesome. I grew up a Spenser fan (Robert B Parker) and then discovered Robert Crais's Elvis Cole novels (his stand alones are good too). Then Reacher, who doesn't do the sarcastic wise cracking of Cole and Spenser (Crais stole from Parker who stole from Hammet and Chandler)., but he's a huge bad ass but extremely intelligent investigator.

Before that I read Cormac Mcarthy's THe Road. Anyone else read it? Cause I found it incredibly boring.

Judah Maccabee
12th October 06, 09:56 AM
Looks like between Neo, Neildo and myself, there's three Jack Reacher fans.

Awwwwwwesommmme.

jnp
12th October 06, 09:58 AM
Yeah it's really hard fallowing both books, I'll probably stick with Focaults Pendulum for now. Just so i'm clear about this the whole beginning in the museum(ie him hiding in there after closing) it's preatty much irrelevant so far right? isn't alot of it a flash back? or am I confusing books again?
There's a book out there that is essentially the layman's guide to Foucalt's Pendulum, or excuse me but I don't read and speak seven dead languages. I forget the actual title, but I'm sure Amazon has it cross referenced with Eco's books.

As far as Dostoyevsky is concerned, I've read everything I could find by him. The Idiot and Crime and Punishment would be my top recommendations.

Try stories or plays by Gogol or Pushkin for an example of slightly more light-hearted Russian authors.

bob
12th October 06, 03:21 PM
I'm about half way through The Brothers Karamazov at the moment and I'm frankly a little disappointed.

It reads like more of a dated soap opera than the 'greatest novel of all time.' Maybe it's the translation. I'll stick with it.

Shawarma
12th October 06, 04:11 PM
Keep at it. It's worth reading just for the story of the Grand Inquisitor that Ivan tells.

I do feel that it ended a bit abruptly, though.

DAYoung
12th October 06, 04:37 PM
I agree with Shawarma. As for the soap opera, there's usually a bit more darkness and seediness bubbling up through Fyodor's characters than your average soapy. I'm always impressed by his capacity to create selves (given he was such a reactionary, intense chap). Crime and Punishment is brilliant, though the rest are all captivating.

PoleFighter
13th October 06, 04:43 AM
The Brother's Karamazov is the greatest novel ever written. It taught me a lot about people and how people can be good in different ways. To me, Dostoyevsky's strength was always in the psychology of his characters. He somehow manages to capture something that cannot be easily put into words.

Shawarma
13th October 06, 07:16 AM
One thing that annoyed me at the end was that particularily the story of Aljosjas cripple girlfriend was never actually resolved. What was she supposed to symbolize, and what was the point of her even being in the story? I don't get it.

jill666
14th October 06, 11:40 AM
Can't help you there- I haven't read the book in a few years. I agree with Pole in that the psychology was facinating, and from my view somewhat revolutionary. Having the grotesque and weak as symapthetic characters and showing their capacity for good may have been quite a shocker for the times.

I don't go along with the "greatest novel" though- I'm reluctant to reread because of the schmaltz factor. I'd rather delve back into Les Miserables.

DAYoung
14th October 06, 03:23 PM
Hugo rocks like geology. The Laughing Man is also meldramatic, but brilliant.

Cassius
16th October 06, 12:29 AM
If I get to read anything nowadays, chances are it's in Arabic.

Sigh.

DAYoung
16th October 06, 12:36 AM
If I get to read anything nowadays, chances are it's in Arabic.

Sigh.

http://www.cromwell-intl.com/toilet/pictures/signage-arabic.jpg

bob
16th October 06, 04:06 AM
I'm a bit of a heretic myself in that I love the squat toilet.

You turn up in some flea bitten dump in the middle of the third world with raging dysentery the last thing you want is your arse touching the seat. The hole in the ground is your friend.

DAYoung
16th October 06, 04:15 AM
Vietnam. Mountain hike to cave temple.

Dysentary.

Toilet: hole in ground, plugged with coconut on stick.

Door: no. Blind: no. Screen: no.

Thousands of Vietnamese holidayers strolling past, watching your anus breach: yes.

bob
16th October 06, 04:21 AM
Yes, but think how much better it was for your long term anal health. Squat toilets significantly reduce the incidence of haemorrhoids.


Caution - NSFW. Or home. Or anything really

http://images.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://www.fatfreekitchen.com/images/hemorrhoids.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.fatfreekitchen.com/home-remedy/hemorrhoids-piles.html&h=194&w=255&sz=8&hl=en&start=12&tbnid=E87OljLe3rkyPM:&tbnh=84&tbnw=111&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dimages%2Bhemorrhoids%26svnum%3D10%26h l%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN

DAYoung
16th October 06, 05:08 AM
Yes, but think how much better it was for your long term anal health. Squat toilets significantly reduce the incidence of haemorrhoids.


Caution - NSFW. Or home. Or anything really

You...-

Why did...-

*whimpers*

Iscariot
16th October 06, 06:16 AM
Yes, but think how much better it was for your long term anal health. Squat toilets significantly reduce the incidence of haemorrhoids.


Caution - NSFW. Or home. Or anything really

http://images.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://www.fatfreekitchen.com/images/hemorrhoids.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.fatfreekitchen.com/home-remedy/hemorrhoids-piles.html&h=194&w=255&sz=8&hl=en&start=12&tbnid=E87OljLe3rkyPM:&tbnh=84&tbnw=111&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dimages%2Bhemorrhoids%26svnum%3D10%26h l%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN
I have an odd feeling that I won't be clicking on that link over breakfast.

mrblackmagic
16th October 06, 02:29 PM
Rum Diary- Hunter S Thompson.

I hope they make the movie.

jnp
16th October 06, 08:59 PM
Vietnam. Mountain hike to cave temple.

Dysentary.

Toilet: hole in ground, plugged with coconut on stick.

Door: no. Blind: no. Screen: no.

Thousands of Vietnamese holidayers strolling past, watching your anus breach: yes.
This thread is going places.

Not necessarily places I wanted to know about, but...

DAYoung
17th October 06, 05:00 AM
This thread is going places.

Not necessarily places I wanted to know about, but...

This is why it's a Lonely Planet.

Cassius
22nd October 06, 04:17 AM
As a protest to having my life taken over by Arabic, I bought some light reading tonight:

Faust I - Goethe

The Prince - Machiavelli (I know, I know. I've never gotten around to reading it. Shoot me).

Robinson Crusoe - Daniel Defoe

Dune Messiah - Frank Herbert

Tai-Pan - James Clavell

A Passage to India - Forster

DAYoung
22nd October 06, 04:26 AM
Fantastic. Why only Faust 1?.

Cassius
22nd October 06, 04:28 AM
Fantastic. Why only Faust 1?.The bookstore I was at didn't have 2, and I liked the 4 dollar price tag.

DAYoung
22nd October 06, 04:42 AM
The bookstore I was at didn't have 2, and I liked the 4 dollar price tag.

Cool. Enjoy. It's one hell of a story.

I'm planning to read Passage to India soon. I've read some of his short stories, and they were excellent.

Machiavelli's not bad - the works on the Republic are worth a cursory look, if only to balance The Prince's focus on monarchy.

Cassius
22nd October 06, 04:59 AM
I actually own a really good translation of Republic and have read it a few times.

Unfortunately, it is currently about 2200 miles away from me, so I can't whip it out for comparison.

Toby Christensen
22nd October 06, 05:18 AM
"Disability in Australia; Exposing a Social Apartheid" by Gerard Goggin and Chris Newell.

If you haven't read it, you're in for a mixed bag. The chapters on things like employment and sport are spot on, but the biotechnology chapters reveal Newell (whom I have outdebated in person) to be the fringe fanatic that he is. He equates disability with a sense of oh-so-precious identity and sees himself as speaking for all disabled Australians. He is clearly deranged.

It also misses the chance to talk more extensively about reproductive rights

bob
22nd October 06, 05:31 AM
Newell (whom I have outdebated in person)

Video or it didn't happen

Stick
22nd October 06, 06:26 AM
Dearly Devoted Dexter by Jeff Lindsay
Survivor by Chuck Palahniuk
The Bear and the Dragon by Tom Clancy

DAYoung
22nd October 06, 06:29 AM
I can't whip it out for comparison.

Why, Garbanzo...I mean, I always did like men in uniform, but...

DAYoung
22nd October 06, 06:30 AM
"Disability in Australia; Exposing a Social Apartheid" by Gerard Goggin and Chris Newell.

If you haven't read it, you're in for a mixed bag. The chapters on things like employment and sport are spot on, but the biotechnology chapters reveal Newell (whom I have outdebated in person) to be the fringe fanatic that he is. He equates disability with a sense of oh-so-precious identity and sees himself as speaking for all disabled Australians. He is clearly deranged.

It also misses the chance to talk more extensively about reproductive rights

Stop maligning people with psychiatric disabilities.

Stick
22nd October 06, 06:32 AM
Yeah, that's like, abilitiest and stuff.

DAYoung
22nd October 06, 06:37 AM
Yeah, that's like, abilitiest and stuff.

You mean 'ableist'? Yes, there's a word for it...

Let's not get started on the blind community - talk about an 'in group'.

Stick
22nd October 06, 06:41 AM
Hey, hey now! You best watch yo'self!

Oh, and GB, Clavell's Asian saga is great; I liked Gaijin a lot more than Tai-pan. Noble House had kind of a let down ending- mudslide, a fucking mudslide?!-, and I have to get back into Whirlwind. A real toss up for me whether Gaijin or Shogun is tops.

DAYoung
22nd October 06, 07:02 AM
Hey, hey now! You best watch yo'self!

Actually, I was being serious. I was thinking of how the blind community in Australia seems like a well-organised, distinct lobby group (given their relatively small numbers). They have different pensions, often without the same means tests.

Not really an 'in group' (I was being facetious), but certainly a distinct one in many ways.

Diggler McFeely
22nd October 06, 10:47 PM
I just finished reading an old Archie Double Digest. Those wacky kids at Riverdale High ... never a dull moment!

Judah Maccabee
23rd October 06, 01:06 AM
Rereading:

"Overdo$ed America" by John Abramson
"The Way We Eat" by Singer and Mason

Started reading:

"Six Days of War" by Michael Oren


Fun fact from "The Way We Eat" - Unprecedented cheapness of meat nowadays has a big cost that is passed on to hapless communities who need to deal with tons of shit being made every day. Yep, communities. Because the corporations aren't cleaning up their own messes unless courts make them.

Shawarma
23rd October 06, 10:15 AM
I just finished reading the Koran, which I strongly suspect makes me one of about seven people on the planet who have actually read it in its entirity and not just cherry-picked the bits they liked out of it. Will start reading the story of Gilgamesh once the book arrives by mail.

mrblackmagic
15th November 06, 04:17 PM
I've been a busy lil so-and-so.

I read
Dune - painfully awesome
Dune Messiah - not bad
Children of Dune - bad
Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy - genius, but short

I am rereading
Glory Road by Heinlein. It looks promising.

kungfujew
15th November 06, 04:25 PM
Working on two books currently:

Starship Troopers by Heinlein
Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man, by Joyce

Shawarma
15th November 06, 05:36 PM
Build yourself a couple of strawmen, name them things like "Social Workers", "Communism", "Hippie Scum", and "Pacifism" and pummel them really hard while dressed up like Darth Vader and masturbating to Star Spangled Banner. That will save you the pain of reading that incredibly shitty piece of science fiction.

Dammit Heinlein, if you want to tell the world your political views, don't violate the genre of science fiction doing it. Has NO good main protagonist, NO character immersion and only the slightest semblance of a plot. I for one am glad the cold war is over so this kind of crap doesn't get awarded the highest honours any longer.

DAYoung
15th November 06, 05:53 PM
Joyce wins (if only for his letters to his wife).

My love for you allows me to pray to the spirit of eternal beauty and tenderness mirrored in your eyes or fling you down under me on that softy belly of yours and fuck you up behind, like a hog riding a sow, glorying in the very stink and sweat that rises from your arse, glorying in the open shape of your upturned dress and white girlish drawers and in the confusion of your flushed cheeks and tangled hair. It allows me to burst into tears of pity and love at some slight word, to tremble with love for you at the sounding of some chord or cadence of music or to lie heads and tails with you feeling your fingers fondling and tickling my ballocks or stuck up in me behind and your hot lips sucking off my cock while my head is wedged in between your fat thighs, my hands clutching the round cushions of your bum and my tongue licking ravenously up your rank red cunt. I have taught you almost to swoon at the hearing of my voice singing or murmuring to your soul the passion and sorrow and mystery of life and at the same time have taught you to make filthy signs to me with your lips and tongue, to provoke me by obscene touches and noises, and even to do in my presence the most shameful and filthy act of the body. You remember the day you pulled up your clothes and let me lie under you looking up at you while you did it? Then you were ashamed even to meet my eyes.

You are mine, darling, mine! I love you. All I have written above is only a moment or two of brutal madness. The last drop of seed has hardly been squirted up your cunt before it is over and my true love for you, the love of my verses, the love of my eyes for your strange luring eyes, comes blowing over my soul like a wind of spices. My prick is still hot and stiff and quivering from the last brutal drive it has given you when a faint hymn is heard rising in tender pitiful worship of you from the dim cloisters of my heart.

Nora, my faithful darling, my seet-eyed blackguard schoolgirl, be my whore, my mistress, as much as you like (my little frigging mistress! My little fucking whore!) you are always my beautiful wild flower of the hedges, my dark-blue rain-drenched flower.

frumpleswift
15th November 06, 10:06 PM
Starship Troopers by Heinlein


One of my favorite books ever.

Shwarama obviously has no taste as he actually read the whole Koran...which is almost as bad as reading the whole Bible. Only slightly better than reading The Book of Mormon.

I just finished rereading The Number of the Beast...now that is some weird ass shit.

jnp
15th November 06, 10:49 PM
All of Heinlein's early books remind me of Horatio Alger's stories.

I always liked Starship Troopers because I read it when I was fairly young (age 9) and the concept of the Mobile Infantry is brilliant. An Infantryman in a suit armed to the teeth, that carries tactical nukes, and can cover huge areas in a short period of time.

That being said, the book is also a thinly disguised polemic.

Glory Road is better, as I recall, because Heinlein was more concerned with the story and less about the politics contained within it.

frumpleswift
15th November 06, 10:53 PM
All of Heinlein's early books remind me of Horatio Alger's stories.

I always liked Starship Troopers because I read it when I was fairly young (age 9) and the concept of the Mobile Infantry is brilliant. An Infantryman in a suit armed to the teeth, that carries tactical nukes, and can cover huge areas in a short period of time.

That being said, the book is also a thinly disguised polemic.

Glory Road is better, as I recall, because Heinlein was more concerned with the story and less about the politics contained within it.

It is a thinly disguised polemic, but it has also been credited for inventing the concept of mobile battle armor in sci-fi.

Glory Road is fun, but The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress is probably my favorite Heinlein.

Neildo
16th November 06, 10:53 AM
I like pulp fiction crap. That stuff is way better than TV.
In particular, a series of books written by Lee Child, about an ex-army MP who goes around kicking ass like Caine in Kung Fu. Good stuff. Just finished 'The Enemy' in three days. www.leechild.com

Just finished another, entitled 'One Shot'.

I think there was a TV/movie series called 'Spencer' or something like that. Had some smooth-talking badass white dude, had a cool sidekick (The crazy black dude from 'Men at Work'), they had various misadventures. I can't really remember.

Anyways, these books are just like that. They could easily be made into a TV/movie series type thing that would be on showtime or HBO or some cable channel like that.

Shawarma
16th November 06, 10:57 AM
One of my favorite books ever.

Shwarama obviously has no taste as he actually read the whole Koran...which is almost as bad as reading the whole Bible. Only slightly better than reading The Book of Mormon.

I just finished rereading The Number of the Beast...now that is some weird ass shit.
SHAWARMA enjoys his sci-fi to have an actual story to it. Dune 1 was excellent because it had actual plot, story and an interesting universe. Starship Poopers didn't have any of this.

PS: Shawarma is currently reading the whole NT, and is finding it quite boring since he knows all the stories from 10 years in the Christian boyscouts.

frumpleswift
16th November 06, 11:58 AM
SHAWARMA enjoys his sci-fi to have an actual story to it. Dune 1 was excellent because it had actual plot, story and an interesting universe. Starship Poopers didn't have any of this.

PS: Shawarma is currently reading the whole NT, and is finding it quite boring since he knows all the stories from 10 years in the Christian boyscouts.

Schwormllama shouldn't refer to himself in the third person.

The NT sucks. Just read the red print and throw the rest out.

Dune did indeed kick much ass, but this does not, in anyway detract from Starship Troopers. Despite the large amount of preaching it did have plot, and the characterization while thin was still important (one of Heinleins classic racial twists wherein he veils the race of a main character).

I've also been told by many military personal that the portrayl of boot camp/basic was one of the most accurate ever penned, both in details/and in the characters' emotions .

Shawarma
16th November 06, 12:07 PM
No it didn't. Rich kid joins army to impress bitch, goes through boot camp, warfare with communist-insects commence, rich kid participates in war in some equally boring sequences, rich kid becomes unit leader and is joined by his peacenik unpatriotic daddy who has finally seen the light. It might have been revolutionary as far as Sci-Fi traditions go, but the story sucks Ewok cock.

But maybe you need to be one of those people who masturbate to pictures of M16s to appreciate this incredibly shitty piece of fiction.

I did really like one scene in the book: The bit where the hardass drill sergeant admits his professional failure in allowing a private to land a punch on him and thereby allowing him to be court-martialed. That was well-written and interesting. The rest was wank.

frumpleswift
16th November 06, 12:14 PM
But maybe you need to be one of those people who masturbate to pictures of M16s to appreciate this incredibly shitty piece of fiction.

Seeing as I don't give this type of red-neck the time of day, nor do any of my friends who also love the book...well you're wrong.

Just appreciate the fact that peoples' taste in books differ. Some people don't read any fiction. Some people read Robert Jordon for fuck's sake.

So, get your high-horse out of your ass, and enjoy your New Testament.

frumpleswift
16th November 06, 12:20 PM
Just finished another, entitled 'One Shot'.

I think there was a TV/movie series called 'Spencer' or something like that. Had some smooth-talking badass white dude, had a cool sidekick (The crazy black dude from 'Men at Work'), they had various misadventures. I can't really remember.

Anyways, these books are just like that. They could easily be made into a TV/movie series type thing that would be on showtime or HBO or some cable channel like that.

Spencer for Hire. Hawk would alway speak in rhymes and carry a huge shotgun aroud right?

Neildo
16th November 06, 01:01 PM
Yeah.

I just looked it up on imdb. Hawk was actually played by Avery Brooks, not Keith David. My bad.

Cassius
16th November 06, 07:25 PM
I tend to read Spenser and Lucas Davenport novels (By Robert B. Parker and "John Sanford", respectively) in lieu of watching TV.

Judah Maccabee
16th November 06, 11:11 PM
Just finished another, entitled 'One Shot'.

That's his latest paperback, I think. I've purchased 5 out of his 10 total books so far, and am trying to get the rest. Damned good series.

Steve
17th November 06, 12:04 AM
Finally finished Foucault's Pendulum, just starting on A Game of Thrones.

Foucault's Pendulum was a bit of a let down, but I've heard nothing but good things about A Game of Thrones (book 1 in the A Song of Ice and Fire series by George R. R. Martin).

Judah Maccabee
17th November 06, 12:51 AM
Started rereading "Corporate Warriors: The Rise of the Privatized Military Industry" by this guy:

http://www.brookings.edu/scholars/fellows/psinger.htm

Neildo
17th November 06, 11:16 AM
I've purchased 5 out of his 10 total books so far, and am trying to get the rest. Damned good series.

Hardcover came out this summer, new paperback should be out soon.

I'm pretty sure I've read them all. I bought 'Killing Floor' and 'Die Trying' at a used bookstore in Saskatoon and read them on a road trip. I don't have them anymore, which totally sucks because they're hard to find.

KidSpatula
17th November 06, 07:46 PM
SHAWARMA enjoys his sci-fi to have an actual story to it. Dune 1 was excellent because it had actual plot, story and an interesting universe. Starship Poopers didn't have any of this.

PS: Shawarma is currently reading the whole NT, and is finding it quite boring since he knows all the stories from 10 years in the Christian boyscouts.

I never read the book (which I hear is entirely different from the movie) but the movie was a blast. Poo on all the dweebs that were too intillectual to appreciate Starship Troopers.

Truculent Sheep
17th November 06, 08:19 PM
Right now I'm reading a new biography on Black Sabbath and The Goldilocks Enigma, (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Goldilocks-Enigma-Universe-Just-Right/dp/0713998830/sr=8-1/qid=1163812655/ref=pd_ka_1/026-4648401-0962840?ie=UTF8&s=books) which isn't pornographic before you ask, but discusses the apparent contradictions and hypotheses on just why Earth is so well-suited for its indigenous lifeforms.... (Although, perhaps it's really the other way around.)

DAYoung
18th November 06, 04:59 AM
I never read the book (which I hear is entirely different from the movie) but the movie was a blast. Poo on all the dweebs that were too intillectual to appreciate Starship Troopers.

I love that you misspelt 'intellectual'. Nice touch.

Also: great film.

mrblackmagic
18th November 06, 11:21 AM
Joyce wins (if only for his letters to his wife).

My love for you allows me to pray to the spirit of eternal beauty and tenderness mirrored in your eyes or fling you down under me on that softy belly of yours and fuck you up behind, like a hog riding a sow, glorying in the very stink and sweat that rises from your arse, glorying in the open shape of your upturned dress and white girlish drawers and in the confusion of your flushed cheeks and tangled hair. It allows me to burst into tears of pity and love at some slight word, to tremble with love for you at the sounding of some chord or cadence of music or to lie heads and tails with you feeling your fingers fondling and tickling my ballocks or stuck up in me behind and your hot lips sucking off my cock while my head is wedged in between your fat thighs, my hands clutching the round cushions of your bum and my tongue licking ravenously up your rank red cunt. I have taught you almost to swoon at the hearing of my voice singing or murmuring to your soul the passion and sorrow and mystery of life and at the same time have taught you to make filthy signs to me with your lips and tongue, to provoke me by obscene touches and noises, and even to do in my presence the most shameful and filthy act of the body. You remember the day you pulled up your clothes and let me lie under you looking up at you while you did it? Then you were ashamed even to meet my eyes.

You are mine, darling, mine! I love you. All I have written above is only a moment or two of brutal madness. The last drop of seed has hardly been squirted up your cunt before it is over and my true love for you, the love of my verses, the love of my eyes for your strange luring eyes, comes blowing over my soul like a wind of spices. My prick is still hot and stiff and quivering from the last brutal drive it has given you when a faint hymn is heard rising in tender pitiful worship of you from the dim cloisters of my heart.

Nora, my faithful darling, my seet-eyed blackguard schoolgirl, be my whore, my mistress, as much as you like (my little frigging mistress! My little fucking whore!) you are always my beautiful wild flower of the hedges, my dark-blue rain-drenched flower.

I'm sorry all works by James Joyce are to limited to read only in 300 level English lit classes and on Saint Pattie's Day.

Unless you mean Joyce Carol Oates, then you may read about farts and boxing any time you please.

Speaking of which.

Should I read another Douglas Adams or Jump into William Faulkner? And what works should of theirs should I read?

Steve
18th November 06, 07:36 PM
The whole Hitchhiker's series is fantastic, so if you really dug the first book I would stick with it.

AAAhmed46
18th November 06, 09:48 PM
Does it have an ending?

Steve
18th November 06, 10:06 PM
Yes, you can get all of the books in one volume here (http://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Hitchhikers-Guide-Complete-Novels/dp/0517226952/sr=11-1/qid=1163905396/ref=sr_11_1/102-8723953-3788128).

mrblackmagic
19th November 06, 10:53 AM
Appreciate the help, but I think I'll go back and reread No Country for Old Men. While it isn't one of Cormac McCarthy's strongest works. The Cohen brothers did snatch it up. Pray with me for Blood Meridian to come out.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0477348/

bob
19th November 06, 10:39 PM
Just finished Slaughterhouse 5 for about the third time. Enjoyed it so much I decided to write a review (http://www.sociocide.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1204509#post1204509).

Cassius
21st November 06, 06:53 PM
Yes, you can get all of the books in one volume here (http://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Hitchhikers-Guide-Complete-Novels/dp/0517226952/sr=11-1/qid=1163905396/ref=sr_11_1/102-8723953-3788128).I have a different version of the collection. It's not bad, but really isn't all that funny if you read it in a short space. I think it's just about the perfect bathroom reading, though.

I just started A Passage to India, and so far it's great.

PoleFighter
1st December 06, 08:17 PM
I felt a nostalgic about my days as a bohemian bartender living with a bunch of artists in Paris, so I decided to buy Hemingway's "A Movable Feast" eventhough I hated everything I'd read by the man. I'm happy to say I love what I've read thus far of this short little book.

OZZ
8th December 06, 02:54 PM
About half way through Dostoyevsky's "House Of The Dead". A tale which is meant to shed some light on his experience in a Siberian prison.
So far, I am amazed at the civility the prisoners seem to show towards one another. Not a single murder yet, and only a handful of scuffles. Plenty of conning and thievery to go around though..

Neildo
8th December 06, 03:23 PM
Hardcover came out this summer, new paperback should be out soon.

I'm pretty sure I've read them all. I bought 'Killing Floor' and 'Die Trying' at a used bookstore in Saskatoon and read them on a road trip. I don't have them anymore, which totally sucks because they're hard to find.

Saw Die Trying at a bookstore yesterday. Different cover, so I can only assume they have been re-released.

AAAhmed46
10th December 06, 04:09 PM
Can someone give me titles of ''one shot'' novels that are fantasy/sci-fi or anything else thats good regardless of genre that is a ''one shot''

Judah Maccabee
14th December 06, 12:57 AM
Started reading "Gun, Germs, and Steel."

Aaranar
14th December 06, 01:50 AM
Can someone give me titles of ''one shot'' novels that are fantasy/sci-fi or anything else thats good regardless of genre that is a ''one shot''


Armor by John Steakley

Fallen Dragon by Peter F. Hamilton

bob
14th December 06, 07:12 AM
Started reading "Gun, Germs, and Steel."

Awesome. Should be compulsory text for all university courses from History to Biology.

mrblackmagic
14th December 06, 09:15 AM
The Road by Cormac McCarthy

Stick
14th December 06, 03:27 PM
Why Secret Intelligence Fails (http://www.amazon.com/Why-Secret-Intelligence-Fails-Revised/dp/1574888919/sr=8-1/qid=1166128025/ref=sr_1_1/102-5586686-1988933?ie=UTF8&s=books) by Michael A. Turner.

Robot Jesus
14th December 06, 04:17 PM
:pancakebu
I’m currently reading the principia Discordia, :pancakebu Don Quixote, the art of war, the book of the five rings, and :pancakebu the alphabet of manliness. I'm also rereading the republic and thus spoke zarathustra. I’m more than a little ADD.
:pancakebu

Shawarma
14th December 06, 06:42 PM
Is the Alphabet of Manliness funny?

Cassius
14th December 06, 07:25 PM
It's not bad. Some of the drawings are hilarious. He loses points for stooping to an entire chapter on Chuck Norris, though.

jnp
23rd December 06, 02:05 AM
If I can find it I'm going to reread The Popol Vuh (http://www.amazon.com/Popol-Vuh-Adrian-Recinos/dp/9681603273/sr=1-5/qid=1166857181/ref=sr_1_5/102-2537903-5459336?ie=UTF8&s=books). If I can't, I get to buy the newer (http://www.amazon.com/Popol-Vuh-Definitive-Mayan-Glories/dp/0684818450/sr=1-1/qid=1166857181/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-2537903-5459336?ie=UTF8&s=books) edition. It's all shiny and definitive.

WarPhalange
23rd December 06, 03:16 AM
It's not bad. Some of the drawings are hilarious. He loses points for stooping to an entire chapter on Chuck Norris, though.

Are you serious? I thought Maddox started fads, not followed them. =/

GuiltySpark
23rd December 06, 04:24 AM
Just finished the alphabet of manliness.

Currently reading
Practice of Freedom-Wendy Palmer
Warrior assenion - GS Groto
Starcraft Ghost: Nova
And Tempest, new starwars blood legacy book #3

Shawarma
23rd December 06, 08:05 AM
The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins. I'm not very impressed with a lot of his argumentation (He quotes anonymous moronic bible thumpers from THE INTERNET!) but I am impressed that he comes across as very level-headed and adresses a lot of the opposing points of view. His chapter on Was Hitler A Christian, for instance, explores both the possibilities that he was an atheist and that he was Catholic. Good book, for what it is.

Letum
23rd December 06, 08:53 AM
I too have that book, it is full of some serious fucking lulz.

Judah Maccabee
23rd December 06, 06:07 PM
"The G-d Delusion" is the current Bible of the "New Atheists", or atheists that have to be a dick to everyone that has religious faith and don't believe in tolerance/moderation.

WarPhalange
23rd December 06, 08:33 PM
"The G-d Delusion" is the current Bible of the "New Atheists", or atheists that have to be a dick to everyone that has religious faith and don't believe in tolerance/moderation.

You have to understand: religion is stupid.

You believe in something you have no evidence for or real reason to believe is true other than "someone told me".

DAYoung
23rd December 06, 09:58 PM
You believe in something you have no evidence for or real reason to believe is true other than "someone told me".

Someone told me that gluons are responsible for quark interactions.

frumpleswift
23rd December 06, 10:26 PM
Someone told me that gluons are responsible for quark interactions.

We can propose experiments to test these theories. What is a good experiment to test the existence of god? Where is the falsifiability?

That being said, I don't necessarily think aetheists should be dicks to people who have faith. However, there are far far more asshole fundies than their are asshole atheists.

DAYoung
23rd December 06, 10:32 PM
Yeah, I know.

I was just uncharacteristically being a dick.

It's...er...for Christmas.

nihilist
23rd December 06, 10:41 PM
What is a good experiment to test the existence of god?



Just use the standard Santa/voodo/Easter bunny test.

frumpleswift
23rd December 06, 10:46 PM
Just use the standard Santa/voodo/Easter bunny test.

I thought it was the Santa Claus/Easter Bunny/Attractive Lesbian/Man-Hating Dyke test

nihilist
23rd December 06, 10:51 PM
Forgot about that one, Thanks, Banky.

Judah Maccabee
23rd December 06, 10:56 PM
You have to understand: religion is stupid.

You believe in something you have no evidence for or real reason to believe is true other than "someone told me".

Wrong, I have no testable evidence; my faith is of my own volition and understanding.

You said so yourself; you had a doctor that told you to not do sports for, like, 10 years because of your knees or whatever. You consulted someone better that offered better answers for pressing questions and they provided a reply that gave your life greater enjoyment. In essence, you did it because "someone told you."

The only difference is that bad knees have a falsifiable standard for proper treatment. Most religious dictum does not. That's why I personally have Judaism as a template for my beliefs rather than as an unflappable dogma.

Most atheists I've come to know have issues with Christianity, not with religious practice as a whole.

Shawarma
23rd December 06, 11:09 PM
"The G-d Delusion" is the current Bible of the "New Atheists", or atheists that have to be a dick to everyone that has religious faith and don't believe in tolerance/moderation.
That seems to be a rather large point Mr. Dawkins likes to make, yes. I just don't see how he can find such titanic evil in little old Mrs. Evans going to church on Sundays and trying to live life like she feels Christ would have her, like being nice to people and petting kittens and whatnot.

Dawkins is still right that religion is utterly irrational though. I just find his hostility towards all degrees of religion as being inherently harmful and dangerous to be a bit misplaced.

WarPhalange
24th December 06, 12:30 AM
Wrong, I have no testable evidence; my faith is of my own volition and understanding.

You said so yourself; you had a doctor that told you to not do sports for, like, 10 years because of your knees or whatever. You consulted someone better that offered better answers for pressing questions and they provided a reply that gave your life greater enjoyment. In essence, you did it because "someone told you."

The only difference is that bad knees have a falsifiable standard for proper treatment. Most religious dictum does not. That's why I personally have Judaism as a template for my beliefs rather than as an unflappable dogma.

I didn't consult someone better, I consulted Bullshido. It was obvious BS from the start as I know there are athletes who have blown out knees that were back in the game a year later and I even know a guy personally who had is ACL blow and was 100% 2 years later. My injury was nowhere near as bad as a torn ACL.

See what I did there? I used LOGIC. What people told me was backed up by reason one way or another. Then from there I made a decision. What's the logic behind Judaism? Or God in general? There isn't. If we're to be in his image, then he is either a dumbass or severely fucked up with us. Of all the gods in the universe, ours had to be Peter Griffin.


Most atheists I've come to know have issues with Christianity, not with religious practice as a whole.

That's only because it's ok to be a dick to Christians. Everybody else will kick your ass for it.

frumpleswift
24th December 06, 12:38 AM
That seems to be a rather large point Mr. Dawkins likes to make, yes. I just don't see how he can find such titanic evil in little old Mrs. Evans going to church on Sundays and trying to live life like she feels Christ would have her, like being nice to people and petting kittens and whatnot.

Dawkins is still right that religion is utterly irrational though. I just find his hostility towards all degrees of religion as being inherently harmful and dangerous to be a bit misplaced.

Religion has been rather harmful to society for centuries. Judeo-Christian religions have been opressing science and scientific progress for centuries.

Monks scrapped down archimedes's texts to copy the bible.

Galen was the preferred medical text, because his theories fit better into the religious world view, even though he was a crpatacular doctor.

Radical islamic forces within the ottoman empire forced many of the great mathematical/scientific scholars to stop their studies or flee the empire, possibly setting the industrial revolution back 400 years.

European medicine did not reach a level equal to the roman civilization until the 1700's, largely due to the policies and persecution of the Catholic church.

Every new scientific invention that revolutionizes the world is met with a "well if god wanted us to do x, he would have given us x" mentality.

Today we have creationists trying to force the teaching of religion in schools (yes, that is what they are doing, no matter how they sugar coat it). It is not enough that they want it taught in schools even, they want it taught in fucking science class.

They oppose genetic research, stem cell research, etc. etc.

One Mrs. Evans or Mrs. Grundy isn't the problem, but when you have a mob of idiotic cud chewing followers, well, I think dawkins does have some reason to be nasty.

DAYoung
24th December 06, 01:42 AM
Religion has been rather harmful to society for centuries. Judeo-Christian religions have been opressing science and scientific progress for centuries.

This isn't strictly true. In many cases, the religious worldview formed the social or ideational basis for scientific progress. I'm thinking of the essays from God & Nature: Historical Essays on the Encounter Between Christianity and Science, Lindberg, David & Numbers, Ronald (eds.)

Letum
24th December 06, 08:47 AM
This isn't strictly true. In many cases, the religious worldview formed the social or ideational basis for scientific progress. I'm thinking of the essays from God & Nature: Historical Essays on the Encounter Between Christianity and Science, Lindberg, David & Numbers, Ronald (eds.)

In a sense, that is often how I put it forward, that the concept of God came from human curiosity and is the basis for science, however one also has to anticipate human nature, "knowledge" of such a thing brings power, power is 100% essential to human fitness (where fitness is the Darwin example here, social suitability) and a such humans venomously guard it and reject all newer ideas in order to solidify their power.

It's part of human condition.

Letum
24th December 06, 08:58 AM
Wrong, I have no testable evidence; my faith is of my own volition and understanding.

You said so yourself; you had a doctor that told you to not do sports for, like, 10 years because of your knees or whatever. You consulted someone better that offered better answers for pressing questions and they provided a reply that gave your life greater enjoyment. In essence, you did it because "someone told you."

The only difference is that bad knees have a falsifiable standard for proper treatment. Most religious dictum does not. That's why I personally have Judaism as a template for my beliefs rather than as an unflappable dogma.

Most atheists I've come to know have issues with Christianity, not with religious practice as a whole.

You don't even have foreskin, what do you know?

Shawarma
24th December 06, 09:16 AM
One Mrs. Evans or Mrs. Grundy isn't the problem, but when you have a mob of idiotic cud chewing followers, well, I think dawkins does have some reason to be nasty.
Which is why I agree that religion should be kept out of government. But as you say, Mrs. Evans is not the problem, so why piss on her as well as on Pat Robertson and Ayatollah Khomeini?

Dawkins hates religion because it makes no sense and he's a man of rationality, being a scientist. There's just no reason for anyone to piss on the harmless beliefs of Mrs Evans in the process of pissing on the harmful beliefs of the crazies.

Shawarma
24th December 06, 09:25 AM
Put another way: In the war against religious oppression, idiocy and inhumanity, how is it fair that Mrs. Evans be collateral damage?

frumpleswift
24th December 06, 10:05 AM
This isn't strictly true. In many cases, the religious worldview formed the social or ideational basis for scientific progress. I'm thinking of the essays from God & Nature: Historical Essays on the Encounter Between Christianity and Science, Lindberg, David & Numbers, Ronald (eds.)

At least when it comes to Christianity, I have always found these arguments unconvincing. It is true that the ordered framework of the Catholic church ha some influence on the heirarchal/ordered view of science.

The concept of the great chain of being, and other ways that Catholic theology went about classifying the universe had an effect upon the way western science developed, however many other policies of the Church, and other monotheistic religions, stifled scientific progress.

I know that there are scholars who try to mitigate the reality of "the dark ages" today. But in matters scientific and mathematical, the collapse of the Roman Empire and the rise of Catholic dominance led to a dark age in terms of Science. Not only was information simply lost or destroyed, but some scholars were actively supressed.

I mentioned Galen above, but many Greek philosopher/scientists (it is very hard to separate the two) were kicked to the curb, while Aristotle was raised high, because his philosophy was fit into the Catholic world view so neatly by Augustine and others. Yet, while Aristotle was a great philosopher, he did not have the scientific mind or experimental nature that many of his counterparts had.

The other argument I have seen in favor of religion and science working together is that many of the noted scientists/scholars in Europe during the Renaissance and into the Enlightenment described many of their studies as a search for God. They talked about a desire to understand god's plan through studying the universe.

This may have been a sincere belief for some, but how many presented their studies in that manner simply to avoid persecution, or to make their writings more approachable by educated Europeans? Keep in mind that Education was dominated by the Church or other religious groups and that anyone who could read, let alone do math, would have an thorough grounding in theology as well (whether they wanted to or not).

Religion, or at the very least Christianity, has a long history of supressing and stiffling scientific progress.

Judah Maccabee
24th December 06, 01:02 PM
While I don't agree with the scope and breadth of Christian scientific restrictions of medieval times and prior, I also don't agree that science and medicine should be a completely unrestricted, free enterprise.

Then you get into territory like eugenics, forced sterilization, Tuskegee, and the like. You also get issues like corporations shilling crappy drugs and making billions before getting caught and having to pay some millions in repentance.

WarPhalange
24th December 06, 02:01 PM
Then you get into territory like eugenics, forced sterilization, Tuskegee, and the like. You also get issues like corporations shilling crappy drugs and making billions before getting caught and having to pay some millions in repentance.

Well of course. I mean, scientists are all evil heathens who want to cripple humanity, rape, torture, murder, and force abortions on people. It takes the righteousness and benevolence of Religion to keep science in check.

DAYoung
24th December 06, 04:00 PM
At least when it comes to Christianity, I have always found these arguments unconvincing. It is true that the ordered framework of the Catholic church ha some influence on the heirarchal/ordered view of science.

The concept of the great chain of being, and other ways that Catholic theology went about classifying the universe had an effect upon the way western science developed, however many other policies of the Church, and other monotheistic religions, stifled scientific progress.

I know that there are scholars who try to mitigate the reality of "the dark ages" today. But in matters scientific and mathematical, the collapse of the Roman Empire and the rise of Catholic dominance led to a dark age in terms of Science. Not only was information simply lost or destroyed, but some scholars were actively supressed.

I mentioned Galen above, but many Greek philosopher/scientists (it is very hard to separate the two) were kicked to the curb, while Aristotle was raised high, because his philosophy was fit into the Catholic world view so neatly by Augustine and others. Yet, while Aristotle was a great philosopher, he did not have the scientific mind or experimental nature that many of his counterparts had.

The other argument I have seen in favor of religion and science working together is that many of the noted scientists/scholars in Europe during the Renaissance and into the Enlightenment described many of their studies as a search for God. They talked about a desire to understand god's plan through studying the universe.

This may have been a sincere belief for some, but how many presented their studies in that manner simply to avoid persecution, or to make their writings more approachable by educated Europeans? Keep in mind that Education was dominated by the Church or other religious groups and that anyone who could read, let alone do math, would have an thorough grounding in theology as well (whether they wanted to or not).

Religion, or at the very least Christianity, has a long history of supressing and stiffling scientific progress.

OK. You're not wrong. But three things need to be said here.

First, let's discriminate quite sharply between the Church, and Christianity. The Church is certainly the custodian of the faith, but their political decisions (e.g. to suppress, burn, torture) can be differentiated from the cultural inheritance of Christianity itself, which is sometimes diverse and dynamic (or it wouldn't survive).

Second, much of the scholarly work on the contribution of Christianity to science is on the metaphysics of the Church providing a framework for science (not the institutions). The basic beliefs (e.g in an ordered universe, in a lawlike universe, in a brute material work without animating spirit) were conducive to science, and not native to human consciousness.

Third, Aristotle wasn't a modern scientist, but he was a fine observer and taxonomist. The great Charles Darwin once wrote of Aristotle’s History of Animals: ‘I have rarely read anything that interested me more.’ He wrote of his scientific heroes, Linneus and Cuvier, as being ‘mere schoolboys to old Aristotle.’

nihilist
24th December 06, 05:29 PM
Religion, or at the very least Christianity, has a long history of supressing and stiffling scientific progress.


Except when it involves whether of not to take a coma victim off life support. (embracing the notion that we should circumvent God's will by automating life.)

billy sol hurok
24th December 06, 05:39 PM
Water Music, T.C. Boyle (http://www.amazon.com/Water-Music-T-Coraghessan-Boyle/dp/2859405313)

Kind of a Cervantes/Dickens-on-acid affair. In a good way.

Had enjoyed Boyle's short stories in the past, and decided to take this with me on a trip. Would have been better suited for a beach vacation, but it was fun in any event (albeit somewhat overwritten in spots, for my taste).

Letum
24th December 06, 06:32 PM
Which is why I agree that religion should be kept out of government. But as you say, Mrs. Evans is not the problem, so why piss on her as well as on Pat Robertson and Ayatollah Khomeini?

Dawkins hates religion because it makes no sense and he's a man of rationality, being a scientist. There's just no reason for anyone to piss on the harmless beliefs of Mrs Evans in the process of pissing on the harmful beliefs of the crazies.

Religion cannot be kept out of government, when one considers that in lieu of religous guidelines, some sort of social guidelines would obviously have to be used, and considering religions influence on society, at least in it's development, makes pretty much everything tainted.

I'm sorry, that was rather unarticulate, if anybody understands what I'm trying to say there, please paraphrase it.

There is nothing wrong with Mrs Evans, however if such behaviour is attributed solely to religion then we have a problem, and in many cases it is.
:biblethum

Letum
24th December 06, 06:36 PM
Well of course. I mean, scientists are all evil heathens who want to cripple humanity, rape, torture, murder, and force abortions on people. It takes the righteousness and benevolence of Religion to keep science in check.

That's why I'm studying Physics! What about you? I'm having trouble mastering abort whilst raping 101, can you send me some notes please?

Jesus, if you have a problem with modern advancement, kill yourself, honestly, don't benefit from it, or any other scientific achievements.

Shawarma
24th December 06, 06:36 PM
I understand, and feel that it is a good point - That society is so influenced by religious thought that its government cannot truly seperate itself from it. You may be right, but you can still make sure that the people in power won't actually be legislating based on scripture. Thus seperation of church and state is possible.

Letum
24th December 06, 06:48 PM
I understand, and feel that it is a good point - That society is so influenced by religious thought that its government cannot truly seperate itself from it. You may be right, but you can still make sure that the people in power won't actually be legislating based on scripture. Thus seperation of church and state is possible.

Oh of course, on that level of course, I just wanted to make that little point I guess.

WarPhalange
24th December 06, 07:20 PM
Water Music, T.C. Boyle (http://www.amazon.com/Water-Music-T-Coraghessan-Boyle/dp/2859405313)

Kind of a Cervantes
So he finally found Soul Calibur?

http://www.soulcalibur.com/images/history/cervantes_concept.jpg

http://www.funnydumper.com/Funnypics/html/babyacts.htm

Letum
24th December 06, 07:26 PM
You know, I was tempted to post a similar picture...

frumpleswift
24th December 06, 09:11 PM
OK. You're not wrong. But three things need to be said here.

First, let's discriminate quite sharply between the Church, and Christianity. The Church is certainly the custodian of the faith, but their political decisions (e.g. to suppress, burn, torture) can be differentiated from the cultural inheritance of Christianity itself, which is sometimes diverse and dynamic (or it wouldn't survive).


True. It is not religion, but organized institutionalized religion that is an opressive force towards science.



Second, much of the scholarly work on the contribution of Christianity to science is on the metaphysics of the Church providing a framework for science (not the institutions). The basic beliefs (e.g in an ordered universe, in a lawlike universe, in a brute material work without animating spirit) were conducive to science, and not native to human consciousness.


The metaphysicists made agreat framework for defining the world, but how much further could they have gone if they did not have to work within the framework of the church?



Third, Aristotle wasn't a modern scientist, but he was a fine observer and taxonomist. The great Charles Darwin once wrote of Aristotle’s History of Animals: ‘I have rarely read anything that interested me more.’ He wrote of his scientific heroes, Linneus and Cuvier, as being ‘mere schoolboys to old Aristotle.’
[/quote]

I wasn't trying to piss on Aristotle, so much as say that while Aristotle was coll, there were better scientific observers among the greek philosophers.

However, Aristotle is a great example of why pre-christian philosophers, who were not working in a dominating (theocratic) structure were much more productive.

The greeks developed steam power, advanced construction methods, etc. The romans built on the greek sciences.

While Europe fell behind mired in Catholic domination, the Byzantine empire still flourished, until its science and learning was destroyed by another religiously domineering society.

nihilist
24th December 06, 10:24 PM
If God wanted us to find the truth he would have given us brains.

Judah Maccabee
25th December 06, 01:01 AM
Well of course. I mean, scientists are all evil heathens who want to cripple humanity, rape, torture, murder, and force abortions on people. It takes the righteousness and benevolence of Religion to keep science in check.

See, I say something reasonable that doesn't even have anything to do with religion, and you explode like an overcooked kielbasa.

Feliz Navidad!

WarPhalange
25th December 06, 01:44 AM
If God wanted us to find the truth he would have given us brains.
Acquiring human brains can sometimes be just as fun as eating them, though.

http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20061208.gif

jnp
27th December 06, 11:37 AM
Hey! My thread is about books people. Take your filthy debate about theology elsewhere!

*wanders off grumbling about stupid pedantry trying to disguise itself as a worthwhile teleological discussion*

mrblackmagic
27th December 06, 02:01 PM
Well I'm reading Tropic of Cancer by Henry Miller. There's a lot of sex in that book.

Shawarma
27th December 06, 04:38 PM
True. It is not religion, but organized institutionalized religion that is an opressive force towards science.
Agreed. Although strongly religious people strike me as being intellectually lazier as a general rule.

WarPhalange
27th December 06, 05:21 PM
Not true. Some religous people work HARD to suppress the urge to think for themselves.

Iscariot
27th December 06, 05:29 PM
Agreed. Although strongly religious people strike me as being intellectually lazier as a general rule.
I'll have you know I'm intellectually lazier than any theist!

Iscariot
27th December 06, 05:32 PM
Oh, yeah, at the moment I'm reading:

Heretics of Dune - Frank Herbert

Hannibal Rising - Thomas Harris

Writing a Screenplay - John Costello

The Monstrous Feminine: Film, Feminism, Psychoanalysis - Barbara Creed

Kiko
27th December 06, 05:36 PM
I was reading the label of a scotch bottle.
Oh, you said books....

emboesso
5th January 07, 07:16 AM
Just finished:

"Here's Where I Stand" by Jesse Helms
"In The Line Of Fire" by Pervez Musharraf

Now just began:

"Mao; The Untold Story" by Jung Chang and Jon Halliday, which looks really good

PoleFighter
5th January 07, 08:05 AM
I just finished "A Moveable Feast" by Hemmingway. Previously I had only read For Whom the Bell Tolls" and found it to be full of macho and gypsy bullshit, with little interesting content or story. In "A Moveable Feast", however, Hemingway comes off as a far more sensitive and sympathetic person than he does as the author of "For Whom the Bell Tolls." The book is full of interesting little anecdotes about his relationship with many other american expatriate intellectuals who lived in Paris at the time. Especially the parts about the Fitzgeralds make for an entertaining read. If you, like myself, spent a period of your life in Paris, you'll definitly enjoy this.

DAYoung
6th January 07, 01:36 AM
Heidegger: Between Good and Evil, by Rüdiger Safranski (highly recommended for its biography and grasp of 20thC history and philosophy). Also finishing off The Mandarins, by de Beauvoir. Also reading essays from Bachelard's The Right to Dream.

bob
6th January 07, 04:04 AM
Re-reading "Climber's Self Rescue".

I have a big wall planned in a month.

Cassius
7th January 07, 12:47 AM
The Divine Comedy.

Shawarma
7th January 07, 09:30 AM
Oooh, with the original illustrations by Gustave Doré? Those were excellent. Try to play "Spot the Mohammed" in Hell.

Shawarma
7th January 07, 09:49 AM
"Mao; The Untold Story" by Jung Chang and Jon Halliday, which looks really good
Haven't read it myself, but some people I've talked to who read it were hugely unimpressed since it apparently goes to great lengths to make Mao seem even more bestial than he was. Mao being Mao, that really shouldn't be neccesary.

emboesso
7th January 07, 12:28 PM
Haven't read it myself, but some people I've talked to who read it were hugely unimpressed since it apparently goes to great lengths to make Mao seem even more bestial than he was. Mao being Mao, that really shouldn't be neccesary.

What sets it apart is the interviews they got done in China, hunting down people who worked around Mao, and the little previously unknown anecdotes. Not just party officials, but also doctors, housekeepers and such.

Those anecdotes interwoven with the bigger Mao picture make for good reading, what I've gotten through so far. For instance, when Chiang Kai Shek died Mao was near death also and penned a brief little tribute poem to the generalissimo. I find stuff like that fascinating.

Stick
7th January 07, 01:26 PM
A Game of Thrones by George R.R. Martin. I haven't read a good fantasy book in years.

Cassius
7th January 07, 02:34 PM
Oooh, with the original illustrations by Gustave Doré? Those were excellent. Try to play "Spot the Mohammed" in Hell.Actually, yeah. I got a really nice hardbound version of the whole Allen Mandelbaum translation for a very reasonable price.

MaverickZ
7th January 07, 03:01 PM
Princess Bride

... yes I'm comfortable with that.

Slydermv
16th January 07, 02:57 PM
The Two Sword... another great Drizzt tale, though I'm getting too old to read this shit...

Cassius
16th January 07, 08:38 PM
Ironically, a 19 year old girl from Montana started screaming at me in redneck today when I was talking about trashy romance novels and included Anne Rice as an author of them. Frankly, I don't really like her as an author, but I actually usually include her when I'm talking about trashy authors because there's always one hardcore Anne Rice fan in the crowd and that usually starts a hilarious fight.

Sure enough, she spouted off with "YEAH AND YOU'D FUCKING KNOW YOU'VE PROBABLY READ ONE BOOK IN YOUR LIFE." You people have seen my taste in books. So have my friends who were in the room at the time. I'm not going to pretend that I'm some sort of intellectual giant in literature, but yeah . . . that didn't go so well for her.

God I hate the Air Force.

AAAhmed46
16th January 07, 08:54 PM
A Game of Thrones by George R.R. Martin. I haven't read a good fantasy book in years.


Im reluctant to even call that series a fantasy really, but it it's the only Genre that fits for it.


Damn good series, the second, third, and fourth are all just as good, if not better.

AAAhmed46
16th January 07, 08:57 PM
Ironically, a 19 year old girl from Montana started screaming at me in redneck today when I was talking about trashy romance novels and included Anne Rice as an author of them. Frankly, I don't really like her as an author, but I actually usually include her when I'm talking about trashy authors because there's always one hardcore Anne Rice fan in the crowd and that usually starts a hilarious fight.

Sure enough, she spouted off with "YEAH AND YOU'D FUCKING KNOW YOU'VE PROBABLY READ ONE BOOK IN YOUR LIFE." You people have seen my taste in books. So have my friends who were in the room at the time. I'm not going to pretend that I'm some sort of intellectual giant in literature, but yeah . . . that didn't go so well for her.

God I hate the Air Force.


I liked interview with the Vampire and that vampire lestat.

But after that, it's the same shit again and again and again.

She has a good writing style, and she makes it LOOK LIKE her charecters and plot have alot of depth.

But really, they dont. SHe just has flowery writing, which is obvious when you see how repetitive her books are.

Seraphim
16th January 07, 10:38 PM
I liked interview with the Vampire and that vampire lestat.

But after that, it's the same shit again and again and again.

She has a good writing style, and she makes it LOOK LIKE her charecters and plot have alot of depth.

But really, they dont. SHe just has flowery writing, which is obvious when you see how repetitive her books are.


I read the first 3. Interview, Vampire Lestat, and Queen of the Damned.
After that it turned into a soap opera. Plotless. And all the vampires turned into pussy drama whores.

Currently, I'm tackling Real Money by Jim Cramer. Interesting stuff.

Edit*

And the whole thing about Marius jacking Armando off really turned 'rubbed' me the wrong way. Zing!

frumpleswift
16th January 07, 11:01 PM
Im reluctant to even call that series a fantasy really, but it it's the only Genre that fits for it.


Damn good series, the second, third, and fourth are all just as good, if not better.

Martin needs to get off his ass and finish the series. He's not exactly a thin man, and I don't want his heart giving out before the end.

A Song of Ice and Fire is very much a fantasy, it just isn't some gay ass high fantasy.

Have you read any of the Wild Card series that he edited/wrote? Imagine Martin writing about Super Heroes. The same twisted deeply flawed characterizations he is so good at applied to a super hero universe that is dark in a way only he could write it.

-----

As for what I am currently reading:

The Island at the Center of the World -- An interesting history of the New Netherlands. It makes a compelling argument that many distinctly American traits were heavily influenced by the Dutch. For instance our history of religious and (sometimes) racial tolerance.

a collection of Robert Silverberg short stories

and a fantasy book my friend wrote

frumpleswift
16th January 07, 11:04 PM
But really, they dont. SHe just has flowery writing, which is obvious when you see how repetitive her books are.

I feel the same way about Dan Brown, only he doesn't even have the talent that Anne Rice has.

To be fair, I did enjoy Ramses the Damned, but the Vampire books, while entertaining, were drek.

AAAhmed46
17th January 07, 01:00 AM
Martin needs to get off his ass and finish the series. He's not exactly a thin man, and I don't want his heart giving out before the end.

A Song of Ice and Fire is very much a fantasy, it just isn't some gay ass high fantasy.

Have you read any of the Wild Card series that he edited/wrote? Imagine Martin writing about Super Heroes. The same twisted deeply flawed characterizations he is so good at applied to a super hero universe that is dark in a way only he could write it.

-----

As for what I am currently reading:

The Island at the Center of the World -- An interesting history of the New Netherlands. It makes a compelling argument that many distinctly American traits were heavily influenced by the Dutch. For instance our history of religious and (sometimes) racial tolerance.

a collection of Robert Silverberg short stories

and a fantasy book my friend wrote



Knowing how ruthless he is with charecters he loves....it would change comic books forever.


Frank Miller would be a little BITCH in front of martin.




But i dream..........

Iscariot
17th January 07, 06:37 AM
I read the first 3. Interview, Vampire Lestat, and Queen of the Damned.
After that it turned into a soap opera. Plotless. And all the vampires turned into pussy drama whores.

Currently, I'm tackling Real Money by Jim Cramer. Interesting stuff.

Edit*

And the whole thing about Marius jacking Armando off really turned 'rubbed' me the wrong way. Zing!
Interview I found to be slow and tedious. Lestat and Queen were a good arc. Body Thief was a holiday novel. Memnoch was the best in the series. After that all the The Vampire *Insert Name Here* were just formulaic crap. Merrick was a nice change of pace.

Red Sauce
17th January 07, 10:53 AM
Just finished reading :

Sale of the Century: The Inside Story of the Second Russian Revolution by Chrystia Freeland :

Really interested in 90s Russia and the author is a Deputy Editor at the Financial Times, which initially put me off at first as I thought it might read like a IMF ledger, but it doesn't it very well written and doesn't assume prior knowledge, which is rare to find in books of this genre.

And Just about to finish Marketing Warfare (Revised edition) - Al Ries and jack Trout

A field of business I am looking to move into, and this was one of the first books I bought regarding teh subject and has turned out to be a real eye opener, basically originally written in the Mid eighties during the various product "wars" (Beer, PCs etc) and is a revised edition picking out the fact that most if not all the pedictions they made were right, and the reasoning behind them.

Also goes over the details and reasoning behind some great marketing campaigns from all over the last 100 years and just is bloody interesting, constantly marring up to the 14th centuary war strategy book by a german general throughout.

Overall just bloody interesting history of the business behind alot of pop culture.

AAAhmed46
17th January 07, 11:34 AM
Interview I found to be slow and tedious. Lestat and Queen were a good arc. Body Thief was a holiday novel. Memnoch was the best in the series. After that all the The Vampire *Insert Name Here* were just formulaic crap. Merrick was a nice change of pace.



Merrick was different but....i got the feeling from it, mainly atleast that anne rice was pushing:

"Look how cool lestat is!"

"Look how cool those vampires are!"

"Looky looky, no one can stop t3h vampires"!

jnp
20th January 07, 01:18 PM
Martin needs to get off his ass and finish the series. He's not exactly a thin man, and I don't want his heart giving out before the end.
He'll die before he finishes it. I can't remember the last one I read, nor do I know if he's written another since. It's a fairly well-written series and I always appreciate when the author kills off main characters with no regard to how (un)likeable they are, but I'm not reading anymore until he either kicks the bucket or finishes the series.

I haven't even read the last two Dark Tower books, but that's because I'm lazy.

I read so much fantasy in my youth, I tend to avoid the genre like a plague now. Beside Martin and King I don't know anyone who writes anything worth a damn anymore. Maybe that Garth Nix guy who wrote the Abhorsen (http://www.amazon.com/Abhorsen-Trilogy-Box-Set/dp/0060734191/sr=1-2/qid=1169317066/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/104-8715989-8411942?ie=UTF8&s=books) trilogy, but that's young adult fare anyway.

I don't get to read much on my own these days, but I read Dora the Explorer and Diego books (and others, but those are his favorites) to my son every night. Pity me.

ps. Anne Rice is vastly overrated.

Rhamma
20th January 07, 01:48 PM
Just re, re, re, reading The Old Man and the Sea.

Also, reading Who Moved My Cheese by Spencer Johnson, MD

I changed job, and cities last month so I am very busy these days, have to stick to short books!

Shawarma
20th January 07, 02:18 PM
I haven't even read the last two Dark Tower books, but that's because I'm lazy.

Perhaps you can tell me: What exactly is the allure of the Dark Tower series? I read the first book in the series and found it to be tedious, disjointed and made little sense. Is there some fantastic literary treasure I just fail to see here?

DAYoung
20th January 07, 06:46 PM
Seneca, essays and letters.

Tacitus, Annals.

Shawarma
20th January 07, 06:47 PM
How is Tacitus? I've considered reading it before.

DAYoung
20th January 07, 07:13 PM
Very good. I've not read it in the Latin, but the prose is clear, the descriptions vivid, and the asides witty and insightful. I'm particularly interested in the section on Nero, but the rest of the book (which I've not read through completely yet) is also gripping in parts.

jnp
21st January 07, 10:04 AM
Tacitus, Annals.
I read that with my dad as a kid along with a host of others I was too young to understand. I need to read it again as I remember nothing about it.


Perhaps you can tell me: What exactly is the allure of the Dark Tower series? I read the first book in the series and found it to be tedious, disjointed and made little sense. Is there some fantastic literary treasure I just fail to see here?
A few things might help. First, King is one of the few pulp writers that has gone on to transcend the genre. Two, many people enjoy King's use of archtypal backdrops in the Dark Tower series. He originally was inspired by Robert Browning's poem , "Childe Roland to the Dark Tower came." If you're familiar with Browning's work you might get more out of it.

Personally I like King's unforgiving style. He's not afraid to kill, torture or maim his characters if it serves the purpose of the story or plot. Same reason I like Martin.

MaverickZ
29th January 07, 08:51 PM
Just finished Princess Bride.

Now onto The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress by Heinlein.

I read the first book in the Dark Tower series.... absolutely loved the world and atmosphere, absolutely detested King's writing style. He has quite possibly the most annoying writing style I've ever read anywhere.

frumpleswift
29th January 07, 10:01 PM
The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is probably my favorite Heinlein,even if it didn't have Lazarus Long in it.

I've been reading the Wild Cards series, and I have decided that George R. R. Martin is one fucked up individual. The Song of Ice and Fire series doesn't come close to the Wild Cards stories/universe.

Iscariot
30th January 07, 12:22 AM
Hannbal Rising - Thomas Harris

kungfujew
30th January 07, 03:51 AM
Dave Eggers: What is the What

This book is brutal in every sense of the world. Beautifully written, but horrific in the knowledge that the story, with all of its human misery beyond the most imaginitive theologan's perceptions of hell.

bob
30th January 07, 06:57 AM
http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/0007158491.01._AA240_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/images/0007158491/ref=dp_image_0/203-3669920-3558360?ie=UTF8&n=266239&s=books)


Genius. I could read it over and over again. Which is lucky, because I do.

octaviousbp
30th January 07, 08:55 AM
Just finished "Sightseeing" by Rattawut Lapcharoensap. A good read. Short stories about life in Thailand.

Already halfway through Neil Gaiman's "Anansi Boys" cause I love the way he writes, and the stories he tells.

Not sure where to go next... maybe a fantasy book. Before Sightseeing, I finished Orwell's "Burmese Days" and before that "1984". Earlier this year was Paul Bowles "The Sheltering Sky".

I would say my favourite author (at least most read) is Hubert Selby Jr. And my favourite book would have to be "The Heart is a Lonely Hunter" by Carson McCullers.
Given this info... any suggestions?

Stick
30th January 07, 11:45 AM
Finished A Game of Thrones last week, bout halfway through A Classh of Kings now.

frumpleswift
30th January 07, 12:08 PM
Finished A Game of Thrones last week, bout halfway through A Classh of Kings now.

How many times have you thrown the book across the room cursing Martin's name?

JimmyTheHutt
30th January 07, 01:18 PM
How many times have you thrown the book across the room cursing Martin's name?

That right there is the thing I love most about having people read that series.

I constantly get calls as readers hit new painful parts and call me to complain about getting them hooked.

I laugh myself to sleep, knowing I have spread the meme.


Veritas et Lux!
Jimmy The Hutt

Stick
30th January 07, 01:59 PM
I don't throw it.

I close it, count to ten, make up an alternate version of what just happened where I show up and dole out justice usually with some sort of awesome anachronysm like a fucking uzi, then I get over it and open the book back up and get on with the story.

Seriously, I want to shoot Joffrey in the face.

JimmyTheHutt
30th January 07, 02:57 PM
Seriously, I want to shoot Joffrey in the face.

Just wait.

By the time you are caught up, the list of people you want to shoot in the face will have grown exponentially.

And you will be surprised at the people you remove from that list, and why.

Veritas et Lux!
Jimmy The Hutt

frumpleswift
30th January 07, 03:06 PM
Just wait.

By the time you are caught up, the list of people you want to shoot in the face will have grown exponentially.

And you will be surprised at the people you remove from that list, and why.

Veritas et Lux!
Jimmy The Hutt

Ah Jaime Lannister. He's so cool (in a sad sad sort of way).

JimmyTheHutt
30th January 07, 03:37 PM
Ah Jaime Lannister. He's so cool (in a sad sad sort of way).

Hush! No spoilage! :)

That does have to be one of my favorite character arcs in the history of fantasy novels, though. That and Arya Stark.

Veritas et Lux!
Jimmy The Hutt

frumpleswift
30th January 07, 03:38 PM
Hush! No spoilage! :)

That does have to be one of my favorite character arcs in the history of fantasy novels, though. That and Arya Stark.

Veritas et Lux!
Jimmy The Hutt

um...TYRION!

JimmyTheHutt
30th January 07, 04:59 PM
um...TYRION!

Well, yeah. That's a given.

Veritas et Lux!
Jimmy The Hutt

PoleFighter
7th February 07, 04:41 PM
Started reading Camus' "The Stranger" today on the subway ride home. Seems like a good read with remarkably Swedish feel to it.

DAYoung
7th February 07, 05:53 PM
All the existentialists are honorary Swedes.

Seraphim
8th February 07, 12:55 PM
Started reading Camus' "The Stranger" today on the subway ride home. Seems like a good read with remarkably Swedish feel to it.

What's a Swedish feel?

Shawarma
8th February 07, 01:01 PM
Involves Kjötbullar and Ikea.

Kiko
8th February 07, 03:39 PM
What's a Swedish feel? This appears to be one technique...
http://www.beneficialtolife.com/swed.jpg
I'll have to ask my sister. She studied at the Swedish School of Massage for a bit.
Maybe she'll have some
http://www.schwimmerlegal.com/images/swedishfish.jpg