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Big Black Hole
6th October 04, 06:25 PM
Millions Blocked from Voting in U.S. Election (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=1963&e=3&u=/nm/20040922/pl_nm/campaign_vote_dc_3)
By Alan Elsner

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Millions of U.S. citizens, including a disproportionate number of black voters, will be blocked from voting in the Nov. 2 presidential election because of legal barriers, faulty procedures or dirty tricks, according to civil rights and legal experts.

The largest category of those legally disenfranchised consists of almost 5 million former felons who have served prison sentences and been deprived of the right to vote under laws that have roots in the post-Civil War 19th century and were aimed at preventing black Americans from voting.

But millions of other votes in the 2000 presidential election were lost due to clerical and administrative errors while civil rights organizations have cataloged numerous tactics aimed at suppressing black voter turnout. Polls consistently find that black Americans overwhelmingly vote for Democrats.

"There are individuals and officials who are actively trying to stop people from voting who they think will vote against their party and that nearly always means stopping black people from voting Democratic," said Mary Frances Berry, head of the U.S. Commission on Human Rights.

Vicky Beasley, a field officer for People for the American Way, listed some of the ways voters have been "discouraged" from voting.

"In elections in Baltimore in 2002 and in Georgia last year, black voters were sent fliers saying anyone who hadn't paid utility bills or had outstanding parking tickets or were behind on their rent would be arrested at polling stations. It happens in every election cycle," she said.

In a mayoral election in Philadelphia last year, people pretending to be plainclothes police officers stood outside some polling stations asking people to identify themselves. There have also been reports of mysterious people videotaping people waiting in line to vote in black neighborhoods.

Minority voters may be deterred from voting simply by election officials demanding to see drivers' licenses before handing them a ballot, according to Spencer Overton, who teaches law at George Washington University. The federal government does not require people to produce a photo identification unless they are first-time voters who registered by mail.

"African Americans are four to five times less likely than whites to have a photo ID," Overton said at a recent briefing on minority disenfranchisement.

Courtenay Strickland of the Americans Civil Liberties Union testified to the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights last week that at a primary election in Florida last month, many people were wrongly turned away when they could not produce identification.


BLACKS' BALLOTS REJECTED

The commission, in a report earlier this year, said that in Florida, where President Bush won a bitterly disputed election in 2000 by 537 votes, black voters had been 10 times more likely than non-black voters to have their ballots rejected and were often prevented from voting because their names were erroneously purged from registration lists.

Additionally, Florida is one of 14 states that prohibit ex-felons from voting. Seven percent of the electorate but 16 percent of black voters in that state are disenfranchised.

In other swing states, 4.6 percent of voters in Iowa, but 25 percent of blacks, were disenfranchised in 2000 as ex-felons. In Nevada, it was 4.8 percent of all voters but 17 percent of blacks; in New Mexico, 6.2 percent of all voters but 25 percent of blacks.

In total, 13 percent of all black men are disenfranchised due to a felony conviction, according to the Commission on Civil Rights.

"This has a huge effect on elections but also on black communities which see their political clout diluted. No one has yet explained to me how letting ex-felons who have served their sentences into polling booths hurts anyone," said Jessie Allen of the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University.

Penda Hair, co-director of the Advancement Project, which seeks to ensure fair multiracial elections, recently reported that registrars across the country often claimed not to have received voter registration forms or rejected them for technical reasons that could have been corrected easily before voting day if the applicant had known there was a problem.

Beasley said that many voters who had registered recently in swing states were likely to find their names would not be on the rolls when they showed up on Election Day.

"There is very widespread delay in the swing states because there have been massive registration drives among minorities and those applications are not being processed quickly enough," she said.

And to make matters worse, the republicans are trying to get Michael Moore arrested (http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php?messageDate=2004-10-06)

Donnely McLeod
6th October 04, 06:37 PM
If he's arrested it should be for not having an ounce of journalistic integrity. If you're gonna be a rebel be an anarchist or a libertarian, but he peddles his tripe to support his party; making him a big fat media whore like Fox and CNN.


What a bunch of garbage: liberal, democrat, conservative, republican. It's all there to control you! Two sides of the same coin. Two management teams bidding for control, the CEO job, of Slavery Inc.! The truth is out there in front of you, but they lay out this buffet of lies.

December
6th October 04, 08:03 PM
5 million former felons who have served prison sentences and been deprived of the right to vote

I see nothing wrong with this.

Phleg
6th October 04, 09:45 PM
It flies in the face of the concept of serving your time and being rehabilitated back into society.

Flare
6th October 04, 10:18 PM
What Phleg said.

Sabore Wallace
6th October 04, 10:36 PM
Michael Moore is a moron and a duche bag.

Have you watched Fahrenheit 9/11? If you can stomache it, go ahead and try. It's the biggest pile of shit. BUT, if you rent it, then rent FahrenHYPE 9/11 as well. In FahrenHYPE they have a lot of the same people that were being showed interviewed in Moore's film. The difference is that this time the people are actually being interviewed for the show.

Most of the people in Moores film are clips from someone elses interview, that he hijacks, cuts out what he doesn't want people to see, then throws them in saying something that he thinks helps him. But in FahrenHYPE these people are VERY pissed that Moore used them in his movie. All of them despise Moore and can't believe he made them look like they agreed with him. It's actually hillarious.

At one point in his movie Moore's on the street outside of a foreign headquarters or something and the police come over just to see what's going on and make he's not starting any trouble. At this point Moore starts saying "I can't believe they sent the secret service out to harrass me. Can you believe they pay the secret service to protect the Saudis???" as the officers jump out of their white cars with flashing lights that say "Police" on the side.

Actually I can't believe the secret service drives around looking like local police. Must be undercover!

All in all, Michael Moore's a dumbass. Regardless of any other point.

imported_Solaris Flare
6th October 04, 11:00 PM
Michael Moore is a moron and a duche bag.

Have you watched Fahrenheit 9/11? If you can stomache it, go ahead and try. It's the biggest pile of shit. BUT, if you rent it, then rent FahrenHYPE 9/11 as well. In FahrenHYPE they have a lot of the same people that were being showed interviewed in Moore's film. The difference is that this time the people are actually being interviewed for the show.

Most of the people in Moores film are clips from someone elses interview, that he hijacks, cuts out what he doesn't want people to see, then throws them in saying something that he thinks helps him. But in FahrenHYPE these people are VERY pissed that Moore used them in his movie. All of them despise Moore and can't believe he made them look like they agreed with him. It's actually hillarious.

At one point in his movie Moore's on the street outside of a foreign headquarters or something and the police come over just to see what's going on and make he's not starting any trouble. At this point Moore starts saying "I can't believe they sent the secret service out to harrass me. Can you believe they pay the secret service to protect the Saudis???" as the officers jump out of their white cars with flashing lights that say "Police" on the side.

Actually I can't believe the secret service drives around looking like local police. Must be undercover!

All in all, Michael Moore's a dumbass. Regardless of any other point.

So are the reps for giving him free media.

Xesor
6th October 04, 11:16 PM
It flies in the face of the concept of serving your time and being rehabilitated back into society.

Because we all know how well that works.

I'm with December on this; If you want to vote, don't be a fucking felon.

Lohocla
7th October 04, 01:51 AM
Felons, rightfully accused and incarcerated, have proven they cannot live within the bounds of a social contract. As such, we can assume that they either misunderstand the basic concepts of such a social contract or just do not care enough about others to choose to abide by the social contract. I would not want either to vote for the most powerful person* in the nation.

*may or may not actually be that powerful

In a choice between ignorance and lawlessness:
I choose restriction of rights.

Cybsled
7th October 04, 06:12 AM
Felon stuff aside, the other shit is underhanded. I'm surprised they arent whipping out the Jim Crow laws.

Kiko
7th October 04, 07:47 AM
They probably will, Cyb and if any of them are being violated those responsible should be punished and such things stopped.

However, some of the experts quoted aren't exactly unbiased, are they?
People for the American Way (http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid=163)

The Advancement Project (http://www.advancementproject.org/index.html)

And a quote from the second site.. makes me wonder about the whole process.. "Our applause goes to Maine, Minnesota, New Hampshire, South Dakota, Wisconsin and Wyoming which have election day registration or do not require voter registration." WTF?

"The federal government does not require people to produce a photo identification unless they are first-time voters who registered by mail.
"African Americans are four to five times less likely than whites to have a photo ID,"...

If people are driving, writing checks, cashing checks, they really should carry some sort of ID. It kinda scares me that all I need to do when I vote is scrawl my signature and the volunteers nod and smile at me.

joen00b
7th October 04, 07:52 AM
My brother in law did time for selling Cocaine, for 7 years after he got released, he could not own a gun, had very limited access as a 'free American', and above all, could not vote. I have no problem with this. It's part of the punishment, and it shows that even after you supposedly 'do your time' for your crime, tehre are still ramifications to deal with because of your poor choices.

Was by brother in law unhappy he couldn't vote in the last elections? Yes, but it also drove home the levity of what he had done. He will be voting this election as it has been 8 years since he was released and it is cleared from his record. as far as anyone is concerned, he's done nothing wrong in his life. He can own firearms, vote, doesn't have to put down on applications he was arrested for felony possessiion with intent to sell, anything, he's free.

Now, for all these other people that were criminals and were released from prison: Don't get in trouble for 7 years after your release and THEN vote. Jail time is not the end all be all of your punishment, and this is proof of it.

imported_Blazer
7th October 04, 08:10 AM
If its so bad go back to africa, bitches. why dont you fucking work on keeping your fellow blacks OUT of jail so they have votes. not saying prejuduce doesnt possibly play a part in some convictions, but you cant blame it all on the white man, or can you?

There are whites mexicans asians indians.. all races we have in the US atleast a few are in jail for various reasons and they all suffer the same drawbacks to being rehabilitated, i'm sorry you blacks think its unfair that your criminals, i supose i should lick the ass of every black i see even though i wasnt around until after the majority of your civil rights movement(segergation part).

makes it awefully hard to think of you as equals or even have basic respect when all your leaders bitch and moan.

Big Black Hole
7th October 04, 08:23 AM
Ohio's republican secretary of state issued an order (three days before the registration deadline) to throw out all voter registration forms printed on paper less then 80lb.

The dem-leaning areas have seen a 250% rise in voter registration. The state sent out 40lb forms to those requesting them.

http://www.mydd.com/story/2004/9/27/125755/309

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/9/27/112229/106

Thespis
7th October 04, 08:25 AM
*gasp* I agree with joe, hehe.
Solution: Don't commit crimes.
As for the underhanded crap, I imagine both sides do it, and it sucks. I'd love for a more worthy candidate to be put forward. Unfortunately as the saying goes, money talks. Those with wealth and power will often do whatever it takes to preserve a system that supports them. Something needs to shake up the system.

Big Black Hole
7th October 04, 08:26 AM
I find it shocking that 25% of black people in Iowa are felons. Then again, that's probably about 4 people.

deadcat
7th October 04, 08:51 PM
"African Americans are four to five times less likely than whites to have a photo ID," Overton said at a recent briefing on minority disenfranchisement.[/URL]
I find this amusing. Why are they 4-5 times less likely to have a Photo ID? It took me all of 2 hours last week to get a new one for MEPS. Are they afraid of losing time in the unemployment line?

Xesor
8th October 04, 12:12 AM
How can you get unemployment without an ID?

Fuck..I have *never* been able to do anything in this country (except use my credit card...wtf?!) without some sort of photo ID. How do all these people manage to live without identification?

Although, I will say this:

I've never attempted to get welfare or unemployment.
I've never tried to rent an apartment in the ghetto.

So maybe I'm just out of the loop. :confused:

deadcat
8th October 04, 01:51 AM
You need an ID to buy/sell drugs?

Xesor
8th October 04, 03:06 PM
Great, you can sell drugs. That still doesn't explain how these same people have places to live, satellite tv, and an internet connection. All 3 of which, I needed to provide identification for.

And before someone says they don't, I know for a fact, many do.

Saoshen Sih`ja`Tgzu
8th October 04, 03:14 PM
I don't think convicted felons should vote any more than I think they should be able to legally purchase and bear arms.

If that makes them '2nd class citizens' then so be it. At least they are still citizen and not still in jail or exiled, or just plain dead.

Thespis
8th October 04, 04:34 PM
Great, you can sell drugs. That still doesn't explain how these same people have places to live, satellite tv, and an internet connection. All 3 of which, I needed to provide identification for.

And before someone says they don't, I know for a fact, many do.

I had to sit on jury duty for a guy who had a 2nd offense drug dealing charge (18 ounces of cocaine) as well as a felon in possession of a firearm charge. I don't know whether he had ID or not, but he basically lived between his mother, sister, or girlfriend's houses. I imagine some of them had ID. Point being, it depends if they had fake ID or if they simply have that stuff in somebody else's name.

Xesor
8th October 04, 08:50 PM
And this is a person we should let vote? OK!

vilesoul
8th October 04, 09:11 PM
i really wish housing illegals would revoke your ability to vote for X years and a few other things as well. It might help alleiviate the influx of illegals and into the country.

I'm also tired of morons.
Tired of it...some jacknut the other day walked up to me and asked for food money, kid in tow, while he had a big fat joint in his mouth. Maybe he could have NOT spent his money on weed and maybe took care of his kid...I wanted to cave his head in so bad....nothing pisses me off more than people screwing over kids like that.

vilesoul
8th October 04, 09:13 PM
oh,. and what is it with ghetto kids having mullets now. I've seen at least 20 five or 6 year old kids around (i live across from a school), who all had fucking mullets! is this deranged form of fashion hell returning? I'd rather see a legion of kids in bowl cuts myself...

Phleg
8th October 04, 09:59 PM
I don't think convicted felons should vote any more than I think they should be able to legally purchase and bear arms.

Not all convicted felons are violent. Not all convicted felons are rightfully convicted. Not all felonies are acts that 90% of America would agree are dangerous, and deserve incarceration.

Xesor
8th October 04, 10:03 PM
Most likely, you don't speak for 90% of americans.

Secondly, I'd much rather see a few innocents fucked over, and keep a large amount of criminals from voting, than to let criminals vote, just to not fuck over the ones that aren't actually criminals.

Halfrican
8th October 04, 10:10 PM
97% of statistics are made up on the spot, including this one.

*edit* and also, I agree with Xesor

deadcat
8th October 04, 11:40 PM
I didn't have to provide any ID to get my telephone or DSL connection.

Thespis
9th October 04, 05:30 AM
And this is a person we should let vote? OK!

Definitely not, hehe.

Donnely McLeod
9th October 04, 12:21 PM
Not all convicted felons are violent. Not all convicted felons are rightfully convicted. Not all felonies are acts that 90% of America would agree are dangerous, and deserve incarceration.

I'm gonna agree with Phleg.

After all, the only difference between felons and the rest of the general population is who was caught and who wasn't.

And if a felon can get into office, why can't he vote?

Andorion
9th October 04, 02:23 PM
I give the United States 150 more years before it implodes, and I'm being generous. (This is, of course, unless humanity's wiped out before then.)

Xesor
9th October 04, 02:39 PM
It won't implode, it will just become a part of Mexico.

Kiko
9th October 04, 02:44 PM
Oh, fine for you, Kitty has his lime ready for the Tequila!

imported_Solaris Flare
9th October 04, 03:10 PM
Not all convicted felons are violent. Not all convicted felons are rightfully convicted. Not all felonies are acts that 90% of America would agree are dangerous, and deserve incarceration.

Yes but they dont vote for the same guy like they do so fuck them!

Xesor
9th October 04, 09:08 PM
You are absolutely correct. Fuck criminals.

Merauk
10th October 04, 08:30 AM
i really wish housing illegals would revoke your ability to vote for X years and a few other things as well. It might help alleiviate the influx of illegals and into the country.

You do realize that illegals and dead people are among the largest voting block in America. WTF do you think Arnold is working on legislation to give drivers licenses to them (remember the guy who was so against it in the recall election).

vilesoul
10th October 04, 03:39 PM
Arnold is another retard. I don't even see why anyone here voted for that dipshit. Shows california really has their heads up their asses. Given there were no real good choices, well maybe Mary Carey just for the eye candy factor. Possibly Larry Flynt would have done well...he's cutthroat (and disliked by many to boot), but he seems to be pretty direct in his intentions, and that's what we really needed was someone who doesnt give a shit so long as we get out of hte rut we were left in.....not some bleeding heart asshole who is going to ignore the fact these border jumpers arent even allowed here, yet we are wasting tax dollars on giving them fucking licenses?

I say they should say its allowed, then bulk deport them when they show up to get one. Use the address supplied to get a warrant by INS and have a little deportation party, cupcakes and all.

Xesor
10th October 04, 03:54 PM
Licenses for illegals here is going to happen whether people like it or not. It's not necessarily a bad idea, seeing as how we can't just shoot them (however preferable that might be :( ). There are entirely too many *legal* hispanics in this state, voting in hispanic representatives, who, in order to make a name for themselves, continue to bring up the illegals 'rights'. Why shouldn't Arnold try and do it his way, rather than their way? Personally, I'd prefer they get background checks, place of residence, and proof of insurance, than not. Actually, I'd prefer they all get executed under some obscure 'invasion of another country' clause, but that won't happen :/

Merauk
10th October 04, 04:05 PM
There are entirely too many *legal* hispanics in this state, voting in hispanic representatives,

When you registed to vote what did you present to prove your US citzenship?

Xesor
10th October 04, 04:20 PM
I realize there are illegals voting, I never said there were not. I was simply stating it is not just the illegals creating the problem. It is the hispanic community as a whole.

I did not have to provide any identification to register. I will have to provide ID to vote, as this is my first time voting in California.

Shalank
11th October 04, 01:06 AM
When you registed to vote what did you present to prove your US citzenship?

I had to supply my drivers license number, and when I goto vote, will have to show my ID.

Merauk
11th October 04, 07:07 AM
I had to supply my drivers license number, and when I goto vote, will have to show my ID.

Yes and neither item proves you are a citizen of the US.

Pretty much anyone who wants to (citizen, felon, Sithray, etc.) can and does vote. Why do you think neither Kerry nor Bush take a hard stand in illegal immigration or securing the borders? Because they both want those illegal votes.

imported_Blazer
11th October 04, 07:44 AM
they never make me show id when i vote.

Doctor Gonzo
15th October 04, 02:13 AM
It flies in the face of the concept of serving your time and being rehabilitated back into society.

Ditto ...

Chantress
15th October 04, 09:17 AM
Crap, if Sithray is voting we are all screwed.

joen00b
15th October 04, 09:35 AM
I had won free tickets to see Nickelback with Puddle Of Mudd last month (At the time I woud not have paid for the tickets, but Nickelback did put on one helluva show!! I recommend them live to any listener of Hard Rock) at the State Fair. While walking around, I saw a booth for GW with Voter Registration cards there and everything. The people seemed nice enough and such, but know I wouldn't check the Republican box when filling it out, I decided to skip registering there.

I ended up mailing my Registration to the Secretary Of State's office to insure my registration was complete. I'm glad I went with my gut feeling, because many of these Voter Registration booths that were set up throughout the State were throwing away Voter Registration cards where people chose the opposing political faction, and the booth I saw for GW is being investigated for it as we speak.

It seems many people were waiting for their return card to come in to prove they registered, and they never got it. Since October 2nd was the last day to register, they are SoL, and a good portion of these people were Democrats that registered at the State Fair.

That's not to say the Democrats haven't done the same thing, but the scandal seems to be surrounding a few of the GW Voter Registration areas, and specifically the on at the State Fair.

I think "Four More Years" slogan should be changed to "Cheat To Win".

Kiko
15th October 04, 03:02 PM
What those people did was wrong, and they're misguided. Given the polarization we've seen, I bet there's misguided people on both sides as well as good well intentioned ones. It's good that there are so many ways to register, but I have to wonder about people who are doing it as an afterthought just because there's a booth, or waiting until the last minute. I registered when I was in highschool and I don't think I've had to do it since then, aside from changing my address/district.

If voting is such a cherished right of ours, maybe we might want to do it carefully and responsibly and it should be easier than ordering a pizza, don't you think?

imported_Blazer
15th October 04, 03:08 PM
oh,. and what is it with ghetto kids having mullets now. I've seen at least 20 five or 6 year old kids around (i live across from a school), who all had fucking mullets! is this deranged form of fashion hell returning? I'd rather see a legion of kids in bowl cuts myself...crew cut forever!