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Bolverk
20th March 03, 02:39 PM
OPERATION: IRAQI FREEDOM
Baghdad Welcomes 'Moment of Liberation'
Reporter in capital says newly emboldened people eager for war

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Posted: March 20, 2003
1:00 a.m. Eastern



2003 WorldNetDaily.com

Newly emboldened Iraqis are revealing to the few reporters left in Baghdad that they see America's military action as their moment of liberation.

"Many, many Iraqis are telling us now not always in the whispers we only heard in the past, but now in quite candid conversations that they are waiting for America to come and bring them liberty," said New York Times reporter John Burns in an interview from Baghdad on the PBS News Hour last night.

"Along with all of this apprehension," said Burns, "Americans should know that there also is a good deal of anticipation. Iraqis have suffered beyond, I think, the common understanding in the United States from the repression of the past 30 years."

PBS's Gwen Ifill asked Burns to clarify: "They are actually eagerly anticipating war?"

"It's very hard for anybody to understand this," he said. "It can only be understood in terms of the depth of repression here."

Burns said that, of course, there are people who don't want war out of loyalty to the regime, or out of fear or out of "suspicion of America's motives." Because of the closed nature of Iraqi society, we cannot know how numerous either side is, he said.

"All I can tell you and every reporter who is here will attest this is that the most extraordinary experience of the last few days has been a sudden breaking of the ice here," said Burns, "with people from every corner of life coming forward to tell us that they understand what America is about in this."

Burns said the people naturally are fearful of errant bombing, damage to Iraq's infrastructure and what kind of government might come after Saddam is gone.

"Can I just say," Burns stated, after Ifill tried to interrupt, "there is absolutely no doubt, no doubt, that there are many, many Iraqis who see what is about to happen here as their moment of liberation."

Knowing it is not enough, we must apply.
Willing is not enough, we must do.

Freddy
21st March 03, 11:43 AM
What about the Kurds? It seems that no body intends to let them have freedom. Neither Iraq, Turkey, Iran and Syria wants them free.

"Do what thou wilt is the whole of the Law"

The Wastrel
21st March 03, 11:49 AM
The Kurds haven't asked for a sovereign state either Freddy. They're asking for an autonomous region under a federal system in Iraq. Kind of like an American state.

**The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**

SamHarber
21st March 03, 12:23 PM
Which Turkey is already opposing.

The Wastrel
21st March 03, 12:33 PM
Well, fuck Turkey too, for what they've done to the Kurds. They made a huge political mistake in withdrawing support, and now they failed to provide airspace. I hope they don't still imagine that they're going to have any leverage left after this.

Sam,
Did you read about Chirac's opposition to a US-UK led post-war administration of Iraq? What a ponce, I can't understand why the American left is propping up the rightist govt in France as a model of virtue. I'm sure they'll call for a French administration. Hehe.

**The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**

Bolverk
21st March 03, 12:46 PM
Northern Iraq, where the Kurds are located, is already free. It has been protected by the no fly zone for the last twelve years, and is the only part of Iraq where the people are prosperous. It does not mater what Turkey, Iran, or Syria want, Iraq will become a nation where the Kurds will have a voice. If all goes well, Iraq will become a non-secular government, which will be better for the people of Iraq as a whole.

Sincerely,

Knowing it is not enough, we must apply.
Willing is not enough, we must do.

The Wastrel
21st March 03, 12:51 PM
Do you mean non-sectarian? I'm aware of the northern Kurdish region, I just stress the need for a federal structure in a future Iraq.

**The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**

Bolverk
21st March 03, 12:53 PM
Do you mean non-sectarian? I'm aware of the northern Kurdish region, I just stress the need for a federal structure in a future Iraq.

**The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**

You are correct, I miss typed. I should have said secular. LOL...

Knowing it is not enough, we must apply.
Willing is not enough, we must do.

Freddy
21st March 03, 01:25 PM
Actually the Kurdish people have been fighting for decades for a land of their own. Their worse oppressors are Iraq,Turkey, Syria and Iran. Currently they are setting guerilla groups out to fight the Turkish army. In the past the various countries has pitted one Kurdish guerrilla group against another.
I dont think we should forget after the first Gulf war who let the Iraqi arm forces put down a Kurdish uprising.

"Do what thou wilt is the whole of the Law"

Freddy
21st March 03, 01:26 PM
Bolverk I really dont think the Kurdish people want tokenism by a state of their own. Currently they are making piece with other Kurdish resistance groups.

"Do what thou wilt is the whole of the Law"

Freddy
21st March 03, 01:37 PM
Sorry should say "but a state" Not "by".

(I'm just too lazy right now to edit my post)

"Do what thou wilt is the whole of the Law"

Freddy
21st March 03, 01:37 PM
Sorry should say "but a state" Not "by".

(I'm just too lazy right now to edit my post)

"Do what thou wilt is the whole of the Law"

Freddy
21st March 03, 01:37 PM
Sorry should say "but a state" Not "by".

(I'm just too lazy right now to edit my post)

"Do what thou wilt is the whole of the Law"

Freddy
21st March 03, 01:37 PM
Sorry should say "but a state" Not "by".

(I'm just too lazy right now to edit my post)

"Do what thou wilt is the whole of the Law"

The Wastrel
21st March 03, 01:38 PM
Actually the Kurdish people have been fighting for decades for a land of their own.

"Actually"? Here's an article from the Kurdistan Observer that includes statements from the KDP and PUK that they want a part of a federal democratic union within Iraq.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~konews/30-11-02-kurds-demand-greater-roll-post-saddam.html


Here's one from the BBC covering a Kurdish parliament in October at which Iraqi Kurdish leaders stressed, "[we] are not seeking independence."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2298411.stm

There's a difference between autonomy and sovereignty.

**The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**

Edited by - The Wastrel on March 21 2003 12:39:25

PizDoff
21st March 03, 01:59 PM
wtf freddy......

--
Hard work, Patience, Dedication.
The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed later.
No brain, no gain.

Vargas
21st March 03, 08:43 PM
Yeah, the Turks have really been stepping on their dicks lately. Hell, they don't even get the $32 billion they could have scored by letting the 4th ID get off the boat in Istanbul. Now, they're trying to pretend offering 'open airspace' is such a great sacrifice. Fuck Turkey, JSOC just took down the H-2 and H-3 airfields, I bet they have full-up bases built in western Iraq in two weeks. They waited too late to pick sides and now they get nothing. I bet we even close the Turkey-Iraq border to any more 'incursions' against the Kurds. The Kurds must be laughing their asses off by now.

"Go cry about it Vargas. Aren't you late for your shift at McDonald's?"

The Wastrel
21st March 03, 09:18 PM
I hope. Go Kurds! And go JSOC!

**The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**

Freddy
24th March 03, 02:37 PM
Thees conflicting news about the Kurds. I dont know about the media coverage in your neck of the woods?? But I have heard other reports. I guess the best thing to do is to check out the various sources of information over the net about the Kurds.

I wish the Kurds the best of luck.

"Do what thou wilt is the whole of the Law"

The Wastrel
24th March 03, 05:45 PM
Well, that was a Kurd paper Freddy. I think you're confusing autonomy with sovereignty.

**The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**

9chambers
25th March 03, 05:14 AM
http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20030321-023627-5923r

http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2003/03/23/do2305.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2003/03/23/ixop.html

Two articles by x human shields who were told by Iraqi's that they would kill themselves if we did not start bombing.