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View Full Version : The "War on Terrorism": who's winning?



Mercurius
20th March 03, 02:58 AM
USA versus Terrorism, is America on track to purge terrorism as we know from the world forever, rendering it no longer an effective engine for social change, or are terrorists, specifically Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda, further along in their goal to destroy the American way of life or die trying?

Mr. Donkeypenis
20th March 03, 07:50 AM
They will die trying. Trying is the key word here. As President Bush said, most of the victories against terrorism won't be on the news or known at all by Americans.

There are probably many terrorist attempts that have been thwarted already that we don't even know about it. Since 9-11-01 we haven't had any more terrorist strikes out here, that doesn't mean those filty bastards aren't trying.

A.K.A MEAT

Edited by - Mr. Donkeypenis on March 20 2003 06:51:16

Osiris
20th March 03, 09:16 AM
" their goal to destroy the American way of life or die trying?"

Thats their goal? I thought they were tired of the US robbing and murdering in the middle east. Probably not though. Who wouldnt give their lives to stop us from going to the mall?

"A well set table, 'Third Rock From The Sun'
Dead men hung, 'Caddilacs and dinosaurs'
hot peanuts and fireworks, a Holocaust" - Warcloud

Mr. Donkeypenis
20th March 03, 09:42 AM
Quote: "I thought they were tired of the US robbing and murdering in the middle east."

More anti-American bullshit propaganda. We are the ones REMOVING the robbers and murderers.

They are tired of us thwarting their attepts to kill us.

A.K.A MEAT

Osiris
20th March 03, 09:51 AM
"We are the ones REMOVING the robbers and murderers."

Youre wrong.

A. Israel
B. Support of Saddam
C. Support of Iran at the same time

"We are the ones REMOVING the robbers and murderers."

Its like a burden on us isnt it?

This is the same bullshit that fucked up africa.


"A well set table, 'Third Rock From The Sun'
Dead men hung, 'Caddilacs and dinosaurs'
hot peanuts and fireworks, a Holocaust" - Warcloud

Mr. Donkeypenis
20th March 03, 10:04 AM
"A. Israel" - Palestine is just as dirty and hates us. They are both guilty of wrong doing but at least Israel supports us. We don't remove Israel because if we did, we would have NO real ally in the Middle East. Although Palestine hates the U.S., you don't see us removing them.

"B. Support of Saddam" Yes. We supported Saddam with weapons to fight off Communist Russia in Afghanistan. We didn't have any idea he would turn into a power-mongering dictator. Now he's turned on us. Now we are FINALLY cleaning up that mess.

"C. Support of Iran" When are you referring to? We support Iran now because they oppose Saddam and have a different political regime than they did in the 70's. I doubt we will be supporting Iran much longer if it's found that they are supporting Al-Queda (sp.).

Quote: "This is the same bullshit that fucked up africa."

What bullshit are you referring to?





A.K.A MEAT

Beatdown Richie
20th March 03, 10:04 AM
USA versus Terrorism, is America on track to purge terrorism as we know from the world forever,

The famous "war to end all wars"? Not going to happen.
Terrorism can and will arise anytime you have people suppressed and angry enough to sacrifice their own lives. I don't see how going to war would make anyone less angry, and I don't see religious fundamentalism decreasing, neither in the US nor in the Middle East.

Eliminating one terror organization such as Al-Quaeda may bring temporary relief, but the next organization will take its place as long as the circumstances don't change for the better.

And remember, the guys on 9/11 were armed with boxcutters. Timothy McVeigh used fertilizer and petrol. Terrorist all over the world are using guns and explosives to great effect. Removing some dictator's chemical and biological weapons does not remove the threat of horrible terrorist attacks.



rendering it no longer an effective engine for social change, or are terrorists, specifically Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda, further along in their goal to destroy the American way of life or die trying?

Osama had immense success in scaring the American public, and for some reason the US administration has been doing its part to keep the public scared for the last 1 1/2 years. That makes it easier to pass new laws on gathering information about citizens and to accuse critical voices as un-patriotic. So yeah, with the help of the administration, Osama is doing just fine.

Mr. Donkeypenis
20th March 03, 10:15 AM
Quote: "The famous "war to end all wars"? Not going to happen.
Terrorism can and will arise anytime you have people suppressed and angry enough to sacrifice their own lives. I don't see how going to war would make anyone less angry, and I don't see religious fundamentalism decreasing, neither in the US nor in the Middle East.

Eliminating one terror organization such as Al-Quaeda may bring temporary relief, but the next organization will take its place as long as the circumstances don't change for the better."

I agree, but that doesn't mean we should be any less vigilant or stern against any terrorist organization.

Quote: "That makes it easier to pass new laws on gathering information about citizens and to accuse critical voices as un-patriotic. So yeah, with the help of the administration, Osama is doing just fine."

I disagree with you. Having a voice critical of U.S. policy is part of what makes this country free. Being able to protest like a buffoon in the streets is every American's God-given right.

A person that openly hates the U.S. or speaks against his country itself is different. That person is abusing his freedom of speech and is a traitor. Someone who tries to oppose our military physically, damage our military's equipment, or damage our economic infrarstructure is more than a traitor, that is an enemy combatant and should be shot and killed or detained on sight.



A.K.A MEAT

Deadpan Scientist
20th March 03, 10:32 AM
Osiris: Each group has different goals.

As for the islamic fundies, they want to see an islamic govt in place in the usa, and everywhere else.

SLJ
20th March 03, 10:35 AM
I'd have to agree. (that's with DP)

I'm behind our government all the way.

For anyone who isn't, I hear Sadam is having a bit of a recruitment drive at the momment.

----------------------------------------------------------
Space may be the final frontier,
But it's made in a Hollywood basement.




Edited by - slj on March 20 2003 09:40:04

The Wastrel
20th March 03, 11:19 AM
Osiris:

Do you even know anything about Africa? Do you really buy all that "Pre-Colonial Glorious Black Empires" stuff? You constantly talk about Black Africa as though it were some sort of homogenous region. It's starting to rattle my brain. That kind of thinking is largely to blame for recent diplomatic and policy failures on the African continent. It's really strange to me that you constantly refer to the many dark shades of grey that supposedly color everything the "West" does, but then peddle the global south as this idyllic civilization, the failures of which are ENTIRELY the fault of colonialism. I don't think your moral instincts are incorrect, but I do think that your constant one-line evocations of supposed "policy sins" do great injustice to the complexity of the real story. The truth is that Western states frequently compete within themselves over policy; they don't act as monolithic entities. And many of these sins that you point to were committed in the course of rationally intentioned policies.
After WW2, the posturings of Sen. McCarthy and Churchhill's strategic "Iron Curtain" speech terrified a whole generation of Americans with the spectre of looming global ideological war, a terror which politicians could use to their advantage when the threat was imagined, AND WHEN IT WAS REAL.
American failures in Latin America were driven by the ideological divide that defined the latter half of the century. Policy wonks were enamored of the "stability" that ultra-right wing dictators could provide against the rising tide of third world socialism, and committed MANY grave errors in doing so. In fact, these policies ran counter to the very philosophical basis of our own system of government, but they were nevertheless RIGHT about the threat, though they were wrong about the remedy. And when the threats were more imminent, as in Cuba in the 60's, we had the grave misfortune to be led by one of the most high-minded, self-righteous and violent Presidents we've ever had-Kennedy. The absolute madness of the Bay of Pigs is one of the great sins ever committed by a Western leader, but he's still considered "great". The Alabama National Guard pilots who died on that mission were touted as mercenaries when the Administration was still trying to deny culpability, and continued to be for decades. His handling of the Cuban missile crisis is still credited to him, rather than to the inimitable genius of Khrushchev. Anyway, that's tangential...but the point is that the dilemmas were real. They were not constructs invented only for the purpose of advancing American "imperialism," no more than the Soviets were certainly intent on pursuing their own "imperialism."
That was the way the world looked in 1956(?) when the CIA engineered the overthrow of Iranian Prime Minister Mossadegh. To their great shame, they mismeasured Mossadegh as a Soviet sympathizer because of his intractability towards the West...even though he had proven equally intractable to the Soviets. Again, the presence of a sympathetic right-wing figure (the Shah) led them into the trap of attempting to secure more "stability" against what they saw as another regional threat. It wasn't the U.S. vs. Iran, it was the U.S. versus the Soviet Union over Iran. And client states are never really innocent either, they invite foreign sponsorships for their own national interests as well. So they succeeded in installing the Shah over the very popular Mossadegh and set the stage for decades of Anti-American sentiment that continues to reverberate throughout that sector of the world, and which eventually led to the overthrow of the Shah and the establishment of the Iranian theocracy. Brinksmanship and maneuver between communists and the liberal democratic west allowed them BOTH to be blindsided by the rise of religious extremism in the Middle East and Central Asia. That's the new policy divide that seems to divide the world.
I sincerely respect your opinions and your politics, but I would really expect that you do us the favor of providing something other than one-line reference to deeply complex and historically nuanced problems. It insults our intelligence to have an intelligent man treat the issue so. We know you have more than that to offer, but it's as if you simply won't stoop to that level.

Caveat: there are plenty of others here who do the same, but I don't really expect much more from them.


**The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**

KC Elbows
20th March 03, 11:24 AM
I'm behind our military all the way. Not our government. It's not our job to represent our government, it's our government's job to represent us competently. I have full faith that the military can take any objective we point them at, and that our politicians, unobserved, can fuck it up. So I watch the government like a hawk, and speak out when they are being idiots.

As for the Iran in the 70's comment, Iran in the seventies was our ally, until the very end. Our brutal ally. Then, a revolution that our intelligence utterly failed to see occured, and the ayatollah took over. Revolution? From a brutal dictator? Imagine that! Just correcting the dates a little, Iran in 79 on was when we didn't get along, and we're not really close allies now, considering that our leader publically called them evil not very long ago.

The fact is, the military will achieve exactly what they are told, but the government must be bullied into doing what they should. Any citizen who serves the government and not the other way around needs to join Sadam themselves, because that is what his regime is ALL about.

Frankly, I can't see anything worthwhile happening in the middle east unless we take more of it over than Iraq. And eventually, if we want some peace there, we'll have to make it safe enough for us that we don't need Israel so much, because as long as they're our closest buddy there, we'll be at war or damn close to it.

The Wastrel
20th March 03, 11:44 AM
Correcting dates? Eh? I will...Mossadegh was overthrown in 1953 not 1956. Sorry, it was off the top of my head. You're actually making the same point I am KC, I'm just trying to explain the motives.

Remember too that this seeming obsession with communism comes after the one time that the U.S. failed to take it seriously-in Korea. By famously excluding South Korea from the American security sphere, and by leaving only a token military force in the South, we had inadvertently given the North indications that we would not commit to protecting the South if they were invaded. Anyway, we know the rest of the story, and that war defined the remainder of the Cold War, and showed that the threat was very real. It was the example which led to Vietnam as well.

I just don't like contemporary simplifications of the past, time-traveling ideology, etc.

**The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**

The Wastrel
20th March 03, 11:45 AM
Did you think I was talking about Iran in the Seventies? No.

**The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**

Mr. Donkeypenis
20th March 03, 12:11 PM
I was talking about Iran in the late 70's early 80's when we had the botched hostage thing, etc.

A.K.A MEAT

The Wastrel
20th March 03, 12:14 PM
Oh. Okay.

and that's 1738...posts.

**The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**

KC Elbows
20th March 03, 12:15 PM
Sorry wastrel, your post was not up when I started writing mine, I was responding to Mr. Donkeypenis, who did comment on Iran in the seventies being our enemy. You and I were making the same point, though you made it much better than I.

Dibble
20th March 03, 01:05 PM
Massive protests hit the streets (no, CNN is not covering them)

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/gate/archive/2003/03/20/protesters.DTL

Dibble
20th March 03, 01:13 PM
Oh. My mistake. They are now. http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/03/20/sprj.irq.war.protests.ap/index.html

I just wonder what, and how much effect these protests will have.

Mr. Donkeypenis
20th March 03, 01:23 PM
KC Elbows- I think you make an excellent point. Although you are not behind our government, that's O.K. That is what makes America great is that you can disagree with it. I happen to agree with our government on most things.

I have a problem not with those that don't support our government, but are against it. Those who hate America, try to work against us, or want to hurt our country are enemies and / or traitor and should be treated as such.

A.K.A MEAT

rellik_yzarc
20th March 03, 01:23 PM
in a way the terrorist succeeded in their goals, we live in fear now, fear of our brown skinned brothers, fear of opening letter, fear of flying.
we have so much fear that we agree to curb our rights, the rights that makes this country great in the first place.
my question is whats next?

Mr. Donkeypenis
20th March 03, 01:39 PM
I don't think anyone's rights have been curbed, but we are definately more cautious than we've ever been. You are right, the terrorists suceeded but it was only a small victory. Since then, our forces have been nothing but Hell for them.

A.K.A MEAT

Osiris
20th March 03, 07:56 PM
"Do you even know anything about Africa? Do you really buy all that "Pre-Colonial Glorious Black Empires" stuff? You constantly talk about Black Africa as though it were some sort of homogenous region. It's starting to rattle my brain. That kind of thinking is largely to blame for recent diplomatic and policy failures on the African continent. It's really strange to me that you constantly refer to the many dark shades of grey that supposedly color everything the "West" does, but then peddle the global south as this idyllic civilization, the failures of which are ENTIRELY the fault of colonialism."

War is inevitable between countries. Africa was no exception. They had empires and they had powerful men, medicine, education, wealth and great thinkers. They also had brutal men, cruel dictators, impoverished countries, slaves, disease etc. Europe has and has had all. Its in balance. Africa seems to have little from the first group that I mentioned. That IS the fault of imperialism. The devolopment of Europe and America at the expense of Africa. The state of the world is not just a coincidence.

"A well set table, 'Third Rock From The Sun'
Dead men hung, 'Caddilacs and dinosaurs'
hot peanuts and fireworks, a Holocaust" - Warcloud

The Wastrel
20th March 03, 08:43 PM
I think that I have maintained that not only is it NEVER coincidence, but that's its always very complicated. And non-coincidence doesn't imply a governing intelligence.

Anyway, I went off a little. Sorry, last final.

**The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**

Osiris
20th March 03, 08:48 PM
No apology needed. You said what you thought.

"And non-coincidence doesn't imply a governing intelligence."

Didnt say it did. The colonization of the countries of Africa was coordinated by the governments of a temporarily unified Europe against an ununified Africa reigion. The attack on Iraq is similar.

"A well set table, 'Third Rock From The Sun'
Dead men hung, 'Caddilacs and dinosaurs'
hot peanuts and fireworks, a Holocaust" - Warcloud

The Wastrel
20th March 03, 09:31 PM
Except there's pretty much no way you can spin it to make it sound like African nations deserved it. None.

**The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**

Osiris
20th March 03, 09:50 PM
I have to disagree. If Iraq and the middle east deserve this then the African nations deserve what they got. Yes I know Im being simplistic, but think of it like this.

The savage, terroristic Iraqs were attacked the first time by America for invading the entirely innocent and defenseless country of Kuwait. They fought back against the American liberators with chemical weapons (where'd those come from?) and were defeated. They then refused to abide by the entirely fair and generous treaty that ended the war. Now they're a threat to the United States.

The Africans are similar. All the time they engaged in religious and regional conflicts using such powerful weapons as guns (where'd those come from?). They were uncivilized and commited savage acts against eachother all the time. European coutries intervened to help and were savagely attacked for no reason. They then had no choice but to fight back and at the same time show the African people how civilized people behave.

Simplified and probably a bit off, but its close enough.

"A well set table, 'Third Rock From The Sun'
Dead men hung, 'Caddilacs and dinosaurs'
hot peanuts and fireworks, a Holocaust" - Warcloud

patfromlogan
20th March 03, 11:23 PM
1 Bush is the biggest terrorist.

2 I can no longer talk about Africa unless you have read THE POISONWOOD BIBLE by Kingsolver.

>>>Always walk on a bright, wide road. If you choose to live with your right posture, you don't have to go on a dark road or a malodorous place. Oyama

elipson
21st March 03, 12:25 AM
I've never heard that Saddam use chem in the first war, but I might be mistaken.

I think the US will never be safe from terrorism as long as they keep getting involved in middle eastern politics!! It was the first Gulf War that turned Osama agianst the states!!

To the people like Mr donkey, who think they need to follow their country like good little robots and that "the president needs our support" (does anyone else see how fucken stupid that kind of thinking is?), I would brng up a quote that always cleared up my feelings of government and loyalty.

Loyalty to your country always.
Loyalty to your government, when they deserve it.

THAT, is what loyalty and democracy is all about!

"An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind"
-Ghandi

Deadpan Scientist
21st March 03, 12:37 AM
"gulf war syndrome" plus he gassed the kurds in the north.

elipson
21st March 03, 12:40 AM
There are some experts who say GWS was caused by depleted Uranium, but of course thats all speculative.
And I was talking about allied troops, they didnt use any on them.
But your point is still taken.

"An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind"
-Ghandi

The Wastrel
21st March 03, 01:31 AM
GWS was most likely NOT caused by depleted uranium. I know a few people who suffer from some of the classic symptoms, none of them were around DU, but they were exposed to chemical attack. (Yes he did use chemical weapons in the first war.) Sarin to be precise.

Osiris,
Projection is just one very important difference.

Elipson,
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel."
----Samuel Johnson

**The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**

elipson
21st March 03, 01:48 AM
"Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious" according to oscar wilde, quoted by sean connery in "the rock" :)

And I was just playing devils advocate with GWS. There are experts who do believe it was caused by DU, just pointing that out.

"An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind"
-Ghandi

The Wastrel
21st March 03, 01:55 AM
I think they're in the minority. We should definitely take a second look at it. I hear they're looking for a substitute. Don't you think it's ironic that nobody cared about the stuff except for its possible being used against poor innocent enemy combatants? Fuck the uneducated blue-collar soldiers, eh? Fucking college kid liberalism. I want to strangle them all and start my own revolution without them.

**The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**

elipson
21st March 03, 02:02 AM
Ya I hear ya.

A lot of anti-war protesters really dont know what they're talking about.....
They just latch on to shit and go with it.

"An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind"
-Ghandi

Mr. Donkeypenis
21st March 03, 07:16 AM
Quote: "1 Bush is the biggest terrorist."

You're the biggest terrorist. Just kidding, but my comment made about as much sense as that one.

Quote: "I think the US will never be safe from terrorism as long as they keep getting involved in middle eastern politics!! It was the first Gulf War that turned Osama agianst the states!!"

I for one would love to not be involved at all in the Middle East but we are already involved in it. When you have that many countries out there that hate you, you have to be involved somewhat. The thing that turned Bin Laden against the U.S. was American bases "defiling" Saudi soil by just being there. Never mind the fact that Saudi BEGGED us to be there to protect them from Iraq during the liberation of Kuwait.

Quote : "To the people like Mr donkey, who think they need to follow their country like good little robots..."

That was the dumbest fucking comment you have ever said on the boards. Do you have any idea how much I.Q. myself and everyone else had just lost by reading that? Here's a quote from myself....

Quoting MYSELF "Having a voice critical of U.S. policy is part of what makes this country free. Being able to protest like a buffoon in the streets is every American's God-given right."

I certainly didn't support Clinton and his regime back in the 90's when I HAD TO GO TO THE MIDDLE EAST, (well, technically I did because I was in the military) or even before that, and I don't expect you to think that same way, either. If you feel that because my political opinions are a certain way that it makes me an automation that can't think for myself, then you are retarded. By that manner of thinking, I might as well say that you are just a blind follower of celebrity opinions. Is that accurate or just as stupid?

By the way, that Mr. DonkeyPENIS to you!


A.K.A MEAT

Edited by - Mr. Donkeypenis on March 21 2003 06:17:20

Osiris
21st March 03, 09:10 AM
"Loyalty to your country always.
Loyalty to your government, when they deserve it."

Nah. What ever happened to loyalty to whats right? Loyalty to humanity?



"A well set table, 'Third Rock From The Sun'
Dead men hung, 'Caddilacs and dinosaurs'
hot peanuts and fireworks, a Holocaust" - Warcloud

The Wastrel
21st March 03, 11:38 AM
What will humanity do to you? Anyway, that's fine for individuals, but leaders of states can't help to think that way all the time.

**The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**

Freddy
21st March 03, 11:39 AM
The dispute between Iraq and Kuwait has been a long conflict. It wasbasically over the issue of the ownership of oil reserves that both nation shares. Such much for that.

Has anyone forgotten Saudi Arabia and Pakistan? Non democratic? No respect for women? No respect for human rights? Allies????
In the case of Pakistan..Nukes!

"Do what thou wilt is the whole of the Law"

The Wastrel
21st March 03, 11:56 AM
No we haven't, Freddy.

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." Emerson

Each problem demands a different solution. U.S. did put initial pressure on Musharraf to hold elections, obviously that dries up if he presents himself as an ally in another immediate conflict. Believe me, the govt and intel community is VERY concerned with the command and control of Pakistani nukes. But that's actually a situation which Clinton actually did fuck up. Pakistan approached the US for help with command and control of their nukes and Clinton gave them the brush-off.

I don't get it, do you want war in every situation? Or do not want it?

**The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**

Freddy
21st March 03, 01:34 PM
Theres nations in South america that dont respect human rights etc. I do have reservations about U.S. government forein policy. "Democracy" I dont know about that one. Check out Amnesity International website and it makes me wonder about these so called Democracies that has long been supported by the Pentagon???

"Do what thou wilt is the whole of the Law"

The Wastrel
21st March 03, 01:44 PM
So are you an advocate of American international intervention or not?

**The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**

The Wastrel
21st March 03, 01:45 PM
Read my post on page one regarding Latin America.

**The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**

Osiris
21st March 03, 06:15 PM
"Anyway, that's fine for individuals, but leaders of states can't help to think that way all the time."

What I meant is that individuals shouldnt follow those that they think are wrong. State leaders ARE the government.

"A well set table, 'Third Rock From The Sun'
Dead men hung, 'Caddilacs and dinosaurs'
hot peanuts and fireworks, a Holocaust" - Warcloud

The Wastrel
21st March 03, 06:21 PM
Or part. In the UK the "government" is the PM and the Cabinet. It's the same in all parliamentary regimes.

**The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**

Freddy
24th March 03, 02:33 PM
The Wastrel- Its not black and white. I think you only think in those terms????
If only the world was that simple.

"Do what thou wilt is the whole of the Law"

The Wastrel
24th March 03, 05:46 PM
Exactly my point.

**The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**

The Wastrel
24th March 03, 05:48 PM
Remember I was the one saying that each problem was different and then you said:


Theres nations in South america that dont respect human rights etc. I do have reservations about U.S. government forein policy. "Democracy" I dont know about that one. Check out Amnesity International website and it makes me wonder about these so called Democracies that has long been supported by the Pentagon???

Which sounds an awful lot like thinking in black and white and making suspicions claims of equivalence between entirely different situations.

**The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**