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Kein Haar
20th November 04, 03:12 AM
http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/hi/news/5032285.html

New laws aim to ban shops from selling knives

First Minister Jack McConnell has been in talks with chief constables on how to combat the rising level of knife crime, which is at its highest level for 10 years.

This is turning into that one Xmas Southpark episode.

Any ideas from the resident Britards? Jalapeños make a nasty home-made pepper spray. Is spicy food going to be a black market commodity soon?

Mayhem
20th November 04, 05:17 AM
Yes, what a terrible idea. Remove weapons from shops. That sounds down right stupid. Why it might even save a life or two. Ridiculous!

Why does a 15 year old kid need a knife?

Jekyll
20th November 04, 06:19 AM
Brits=scottish in this case.
There is very little use for machettes in inner city scotland.

When was the last time you heard of a school shooting in britian?

It was '96 by an adult gun nut before the laws got tightened.

Grant
20th November 04, 08:29 AM
Why would you encourage people to have knives when there is no need for them apart from stabbing other people. If you say it is for self protection, it would only be to protect yourself against someone attacking you with a knife.
In conclusion
Weapons = Not Cool

Osiris
20th November 04, 09:05 AM
A. Restricting knives is IMPOSSIBLE
B. If three or four guys ran up on me, id sure as hell want a knife.

Reikon
20th November 04, 09:12 AM
Why does a 15 year old kid need a knife?

Because I take FMAs...

Jekyll
20th November 04, 10:47 AM
A. Restricting knives is IMPOSSIBLE
B. If three or four guys ran up on me, id sure as hell want a knife.
Yep, but I'm in favor of making it harder for 15 year old inner city kids to get hold of a machette, its not like you can realisticaly carry them conceled, so they're not sutible for personal protection.

Incedentally, it is already illegal in the whole of the UK to carry any devise with intent to use it as a weapon. Weither for self defence or otherwise.

Oh yeh, and if 3 or 4 guys ran up on me armed with knives I'd want to get the fuck out of there, not have my own knife.

Matsufubu
20th November 04, 12:22 PM
The link won't work for me for some reason.

No, you can't completely stop knives getting into kids' hands - if somebody wants to get hold of something badly enough, they'll get it. Shops should not sell knives to minors, full stop.

However, a lot of teenagers think it's 'cool' to walk around with a knife, or even use one.

We backward Brits aren't as at ease with school killings as you Americans. If you can make a difference in stopping it, great. There's no valid reason for youths to have knives.

NHB_Ben
20th November 04, 01:19 PM
I don't think you'll be able to effectively remove any types of weapons in the free world that you would not be able to remove from the hands of a prison. In this case, puncturing/slashing implements.

Xango
20th November 04, 01:39 PM
I carry a knife, and have since I became a boy scout, age 11. I use it to cut things.

Soon, Britain will experience a crime wave involving sharpened umbrellas. I will laugh at you then, as I am laughing at you now.

NextGuard
20th November 04, 01:43 PM
A. Restricting knives is IMPOSSIBLE
B. If three or four guys ran up on me, id sure as hell want a knife.

Not to mention there are too many other uses for knives besides combat.
So you ban Rambo-type knives... people could just use butcher knives.

Jekyll
20th November 04, 01:50 PM
This is no big deal, it just makes it harder for kids to buy machettes and carry them into schools to show who's the daddy.

Whilest your mocking our rise in umbrella based crime we're just relived we're not being shot at.

Kein Haar
20th November 04, 02:10 PM
Seriously, what's next? Government stations designated for cutting vegetables? How many restrictions can you possibly have before nearly everyone is a damn criminal? Outlawing canine teeth in all dogs?

Matsufubu
20th November 04, 02:13 PM
Well you can go too far, but I really don't see why youths need knives. Do they desperately need to whittle? Pick spinach out of their teeth? Build a raft from logs and vines?

This is 2004, and kids do not need to carry knives.

NextGuard
20th November 04, 02:13 PM
Things are getting nuts in the states too.

Just outside Atlanta we had a little girl suspended for school because her tweedy bird key chain in her wallet was considered "a weapon."

>>The Associated Press today reported that sixth-grader Ashley Smith was suspended for 10-days from her suburban Atlanta school for bringing a Tweedy Bird wallet to school. Why? The wallet meets the school's definition of a weapon.

The 11-year-old Smith runs a web site devoted to Tweedy Bird so naturally the Tweedy Bird wallet was a given. Unfortunately for Smith the wallet contains a chain inside it which is designed to hold keys. The chain is just over the 10-inch limit the school imposes on chains, and so they sent her home for 10 days for bringing a weapon to school. <<

A.D.D
20th November 04, 02:22 PM
I carry a knife, and have since I became a boy scout, age 11. I use it to cut things.

Soon, Britain will experience a crime wave involving sharpened umbrellas. I will laugh at you then, as I am laughing at you now.


I can't go anywhere these days without running into one of The Penguin's Henchmen...

Also since someone mentioned South Park. Sweet Dude (http://www.southparkstudios.com/down/download.html?file=/media/sounds/705/RUNFORTHEBORDERSONG.wav&PHPSESSID=c793c07942471bf930d966840fe11575)

Kayne
21st November 04, 08:36 PM
Things are getting nuts in the states too.

Just outside Atlanta we had a little girl suspended for school because her tweedy bird key chain in her wallet was considered "a weapon."

>>The Associated Press today reported that sixth-grader Ashley Smith was suspended for 10-days from her suburban Atlanta school for bringing a Tweedy Bird wallet to school. Why? The wallet meets the school's definition of a weapon.

The 11-year-old Smith runs a web site devoted to Tweedy Bird so naturally the Tweedy Bird wallet was a given. Unfortunately for Smith the wallet contains a chain inside it which is designed to hold keys. The chain is just over the 10-inch limit the school imposes on chains, and so they sent her home for 10 days for bringing a weapon to school. <<
Unfortunately, sweeping policies don't leave any room for common sense.

Jenfucius
21st November 04, 08:49 PM
that means that i will be banned in britain, because i can change my hands into knives and stabbing weapons

Matsufubu
22nd November 04, 01:45 PM
that means that i will be banned in britain, because i can change my hands into knives and stabbing weapons

You just want Arnie to take you in his big, strong arms and throw you about some, don't you?

Dochter
22nd November 04, 02:24 PM
Oh my god, they took my machete, with what shall I now reap grasses to rethatch my roof?











We're not talking about knives with some practical utility.

Frankly Keinhar on this one you remind me of Chicken Little. If flamethrower of shoulder launched SAMs were legal and subsequently made illegal, I'd bet you'd say the same thing. Were you in agreement with the NRA when they went ballistic about legislation to make trigger locks included with handgun purchases?

Kein Haar
22nd November 04, 05:48 PM
They also don't allow prong collars for doggies.

Dochter
22nd November 04, 06:26 PM
BwackBwack.

:)

Mohawk
23rd November 04, 12:51 AM
Things are getting nuts in the states too.

Just outside Atlanta we had a little girl suspended for school because her tweedy bird key chain in her wallet was considered "a weapon."

>>The Associated Press today reported that sixth-grader Ashley Smith was suspended for 10-days from her suburban Atlanta school for bringing a Tweedy Bird wallet to school. Why? The wallet meets the school's definition of a weapon.

The 11-year-old Smith runs a web site devoted to Tweedy Bird so naturally the Tweedy Bird wallet was a given. Unfortunately for Smith the wallet contains a chain inside it which is designed to hold keys. The chain is just over the 10-inch limit the school imposes on chains, and so they sent her home for 10 days for bringing a weapon to school. <<

Its fucked up to treat a 11 year old like a crook because she has a wallet chain! Makes me half tempted to grab a 9 inch chain and choke out the fucked up asshole who decided this fucked up rule. Lets ban pencils and heavy backpacks because they can be used as weapons too. Fucking hate people their bullshit laws to keep people *safe*. The rate in which people seem to be willing to exchange freedom for security is disturbing.

SamHarber
23rd November 04, 03:55 AM
As far as I'm concerned the current UK laws on knives are quite sensible, so adding anything further is unneccessary.

El Tejon
23rd November 04, 09:26 AM
What's next in the U.K.? Hands!

Just wait until the twits realize that hands are the cause of crime. Ban hands, for the children!

"Right then! Hands aren't allowed here, chumley. Be a good lad and put your hands on the Royal chopping block--for Queen and country and because a majority of twits in Parliament say so!"

Jekyll
23rd November 04, 09:42 AM
Come on then, El Tejon explain why inner city 15 year olds need to be able to buy machettes.

EuropIan
23rd November 04, 09:51 AM
Because they live in the urban jungle?

It would make more sense to outlaw the word "oi!". Because that is how violence starts in the UK

Thaiboxerken
23rd November 04, 10:16 AM
Eventually, they'll outlaw all knives and people will just have to tear their meat apart with their hands. Britain's chefs will be handicapped, all for the greater good.

SLJ
23rd November 04, 10:16 AM
OI!!!

No, it's pretty pointless really. People will just use another type of knife. My mate likes to cook and brought some nasty razor sharp thing the other day. We laughed at how he managed to get that, but some crappy bullet knife would get you locked up.

El Tejon
23rd November 04, 10:18 AM
Jekyll, I had many fine edged weapons by 15, including a machette that I used in Scouts.

"Why" is up to the parents, not the Nanny State.

When a government decides that inert objects contain eeevil instead of people, we are all in trouble.

Jekyll
23rd November 04, 10:21 AM
I remember when one of my mates was arrested and taken down the police station for carrying ~ he had a full set of knives and they wouldn't let him go untill he proved that he was on his way to work as a trainie chef.

Bottom line is dont take the piss when they stop and search you and fail to find anything. Theres always something.

Peter H.
23rd November 04, 10:55 AM
Doesn't matter, just wander into Snetterton, walk up to the back of the van and buy what you want regardless of laws.

Trueblood
23rd November 04, 11:12 AM
Yes, what a terrible idea. Remove weapons from shops. That sounds down right stupid. Why it might even save a life or two. Ridiculous!

Why does a 15 year old kid need a knife?

Absolutely! Banning knives might just have saved the life of that steak I cut in to tiny pieces and ate last night...

Think weapon bans work? The Wall Street Journal (http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=105002026) disagrees with you. Since Britain banned handguns in 1996, "gun crimes have risen by 40%."

If you care so much about saving lives, then ban cars. Over a thousand people die every day in traffic accidents... and why does a 16 year old kid need a car? Insurance companies believe that younger drivers are more dangerous than those who are more experienced, and I bet they base that on better studies that you based your knife comment on.

Jekyll
23rd November 04, 11:39 AM
Jekyll, I had many fine edged weapons by 15, including a machette that I used in Scouts.

"Why" is up to the parents, not the Nanny State.

When a government decides that inert objects contain eeevil instead of people, we are all in trouble.
Yep and now your parents would have to buy them for you, not you yourself.

No one is talking about banning knives, just stopping minors from buying them.



Think weapon bans work? The Wall Street Journal disagrees with you. Since Britain banned handguns in 1996, "gun crimes have risen by 40%."

Now if I had to make a guess about why this had happened I would put it down to the increase in crack on the streets and the rise of the gangs that go with them. Not due to the banning of hand guns.


If you care so much about saving lives, then ban cars. Over a thousand people die every day in traffic accidents... and why does a 16 year old kid need a car? Insurance companies believe that younger drivers are more dangerous than those who are more experienced, and I bet they base that on better studies that you based your knife comment on.

Firstly 16 years olds in this country are banned from driving cars. :icon_bigg You cant drive anything more powerful then a 50cc moped before you're 17.
Secondly while cars are genuinely useful I can think of no good reason why any minor in an inner city area has to be able to buy a machette without a responsible adult being present.

:BangHead: No one actualy seems to have any objection to the legislation, they just object to the idea of infringement of liberties.

Well which liberties are being infringed?

Mordisquitos
23rd November 04, 12:25 PM
Absolutely! Banning knives might just have saved the life of that steak I cut in to tiny pieces and ate last night...

Think weapon bans work? The Wall Street Journal (http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=105002026) disagrees with you. Since Britain banned handguns in 1996, "gun crimes have risen by 40%."

If you care so much about saving lives, then ban cars. Over a thousand people die every day in traffic accidents... and why does a 16 year old kid need a car? Insurance companies believe that younger drivers are more dangerous than those who are more experienced, and I bet they base that on better studies that you based your knife comment on.

The fact gun crimes have increased does not mean gun control caused such growth. Maybe it wasn't particularly brilliant at decreasing crime, but it didn't increase it. It's like saying "I took an aspirin and my headache's getting worse. Shit, aspirin worsens headaches!". Okay, you never said the gun ban actually increased crime, but it's more likely than not than gun crimes would have increased more than 40% were it not for the ban, just like your headache would have got even worse had you not taken the aspirin. The conclusion is that the gun ban isn't the solution, but it's part of it.

As I understand, pro-gun freedom (or whatever) advocates argue that gun control (or ban) only stops law-abiding citizens getting guns, while criminals will always have the black market, ban or no ban, control or no control. True. That would mean law-abiding citizens would be powerless against criminals, and therefore gun crime would increase with the criminal not fearing retaliation. Now, I don't know about in the US, but I don't think pre-1996 British criminals were scared of using guns because their victim might be quicker on the draw... In other words, guns are not a deterrent here in Europe. Secondly, many crimes can be avoided just by unavailabilty of guns. Following the cliché of Columbine: if I wanted to shoot up my school here in Spain, which I definetely don't want to do (yet:qright7:), I just wouldn't have the faintest idea of where to go and buy a handgun in the black market, let alone an automatic. I just wouldn't know where to begin. However, in certain States of the USA I just need to pop over to the armoury and buy one: I'm 18, I have no criminal record, and they don't know I'm insane. In the US, I can shoot up my schoolmates. In Spain, I just can't get a gun. I do agree the guy with the gang contacts will get a gun anyway in both situations. But I can't.



PS: I'm curious, what do pro-gun advocates generally think of the legalization of drugs? Legalize guns, people could use them to defend themselves or against each other. Legalize drugs, and people can only harm themselves, drug cartels disappear, and drugs are no longer heavily adulterated. (I am mostly against legalizing most drugs). I know Libertarians are usually in favour, but what about the rest?

PPS: A 16 year-old can't drive in the UK.

PPPS: Okay, a 17 year-old can...

Xango
23rd November 04, 03:24 PM
Jeckyl, you have read the article incorrectly. It is talking about banning the sale of 'assault knives' outright; presumably that's any sheath knife, since I know you can't carry lockblades already (talk about pathetic). It also suggests raising the age for buying axes and houshold knives from 16 to 18, which I don't believe anyone considers a problem.

For the record, Mordosquitos, I am in favor of both guns and drugs being legally available to adults without prior record of abusing their civil liberties. The way I see it, if I want to go target shooting with my wives, and smoke a joint afterwards, that's no one else's business.

El Tejon
23rd November 04, 04:25 PM
Jekyll, I must be misreading the article as I believe that banning knives, or at least some types of knives, is exactly what the proposal intends. As well, carrying knives for any age would be illegal.

If your politicians think that inanimate objects cause crime, then the door is open to all kinds of nonsense.

SamHarber
23rd November 04, 05:01 PM
Salient points from UK law.

Section 139(1) of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (paraphrased)

This provision makes it an offence for a person to carry an article with a blade or a point in a public place unless they can prove any of the following:-

* That they had lawful authority or reasonable excuse for carrying it
* That they were carrying the article for use at work
* That they were carrying it for religious reasons
* That they were carrying it as part of national costume

# Folding pocket knives with blades not exceeding 3 inches are exempt from this provision. This means that it is not an offence to carry a pen knife around with you. Age is not a material factor in any respect - anyone can own or carry a penknife no matter what age they are. The only occasion when the police would take action would be if the person is using the penknife illegally such as to cause criminal damage or to injure someone.

# Lock knives with blades of any length and folding pocket knives with blades exceeding 3 inches are covered by this provision together with any other article that has a blade or is sharply pointed, such as a stanley knife.

# Carrying an article with a blade or a point for "self defence" in case of attack does not constitute a reasonable excuse, nor is it a reasonable excuse to be carrying it because you had been using it for a job earlier and had forgotten to put it away afterwards.

Thaiboxerken
23rd November 04, 07:29 PM
Yep and now your parents would have to buy them for you, not you yourself.

No one is talking about banning knives, just stopping minors from buying them.

I guess I can kind of agree with this. However, does this mean a parent can give their kids knives?



Now if I had to make a guess about why this had happened I would put it down to the increase in crack on the streets and the rise of the gangs that go with them. Not due to the banning of hand guns.

Does this mean that gun laws have little to do with gun crimes?

The Wastrel
23rd November 04, 07:37 PM
Absolutely! Banning knives might just have saved the life of that steak I cut in to tiny pieces and ate last night...

Think weapon bans work? The Wall Street Journal (http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=105002026) disagrees with you. Since Britain banned handguns in 1996, "gun crimes have risen by 40%."

If you care so much about saving lives, then ban cars. Over a thousand people die every day in traffic accidents... and why does a 16 year old kid need a car? Insurance companies believe that younger drivers are more dangerous than those who are more experienced, and I bet they base that on better studies that you based your knife comment on.

Correct, and in California, you can't drive at sixteen without a licensed driver over the age of 25 in the car with you. At eighteen you get normal privileges.

Jekyll
23rd November 04, 11:39 PM
Jeckyl, you have read the article incorrectly. It is talking about banning the sale of 'assault knives' outright; presumably that's any sheath knife, since I know you can't carry lockblades already (talk about pathetic). It also suggests raising the age for buying axes and houshold knives from 16 to 18, which I don't believe anyone considers a problem.


You're right I misread it, hunting knives and sharp samuri swords are right out. And no knife purcheses for minors.

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/lo/features/7015822.html

I'd assume machettes are still in going to remain legal, as a gardening essental.

Jolly_Roger
23rd November 04, 11:47 PM
Hey, not every british person agrees.
One Mr.Soap from the east side said the following:
Soap: Also, I think knives are a good idea. Big, fuck-off shiny ones. Ones that look like they could skin a crocodile. Knives are good, because they don't make any noise, and the less noise they make, the more likely we are to use them. Shit 'em right up. Makes it look like we're serious. Guns for show, knives for a pro.

More of Mr.Soap and associates opinions here.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120735/quotes

Jekyll
23rd November 04, 11:51 PM
I guess I can kind of agree with this. However, does this mean a parent can give their kids knives?

Unless theres another law which stops them that bullshido hasnt found yet....
Sams post would still aply though



Does this mean that gun laws have little to do with gun crimes?
It means that gun laws are not the only factor in the amount of gun crime. However it still makes a difference, we have relitively few gun based muggings compaired to the states I would imagen.

ojgsxr6
24th November 04, 12:45 AM
Think weapon bans work? The Wall Street Journal (http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=105002026) disagrees with you. Since Britain banned handguns in 1996, "gun crimes have risen by 40%."
Every time you make something illegal, crime is going to go up. If they make steel toe boots illegal, steel toe boot crimes will go up significantly. By the fact that they are now going to record the crime as assault with deadly footwear as opposed to just assault, and because there already out there. I also remember hearing that once the ban on handguns went into effect in the UK, knife attacks went up. Now that maybe false but it's just something I heard on the Discovery Channel. They were doing a show on stab proof vests, like the ones CO's wear.

I also would like to see the statistics on the percentage of crimes commited with illegally owned guns verses legally owned guns. I personally believe that most crimes are commited with an illegal gun.

That being said I love my guns and knives.
Also in British law which if the worse crime, meaning bringing the heavier penalty, assault or having an illegal firearm.

Kein Haar
24th November 04, 06:25 AM
Dochter,

Seriously. The staple piece of equipment in serious dog training world-wide is not legal in Britain. It looks uncomfortable, I guess.

Nanny state is nowhere more applicable. I'd laugh, but that shit is leaking into the atlantic and seeping inwards.

In the foreseeable future, the NWO will move everyone to the equator where our needs of water, several vitamins and amino acids are met. That's all anybody really needs.

Matsufubu
24th November 04, 02:15 PM
Hey, not every british person agrees.
One Mr.Soap from the east side said the following:
Soap: Also, I think knives are a good idea. Big, fuck-off shiny ones. Ones that look like they could skin a crocodile. Knives are good, because they don't make any noise, and the less noise they make, the more likely we are to use them. Shit 'em right up. Makes it look like we're serious. Guns for show, knives for a pro.

More of Mr.Soap and associates opinions here.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120735/quotes

British people fall into two categories: Hugh Grant-a-likes, and Cockney gangsters. It's true.

Thaiboxerken
24th November 04, 05:45 PM
It means that gun laws are not the only factor in the amount of gun crime. However it still makes a difference, we have relitively few gun based muggings compaired to the states I would imagen.

I would wager that the UK has relatively less violent crimes than the USA on all levels. Our country was founded by violence, we are just a violent society.

The Crack Taoist
24th November 04, 05:54 PM
PS: I'm curious, what do pro-gun advocates generally think of the legalization of drugs? Legalize guns, people could use them to defend themselves or against each other. Legalize drugs, and people can only harm themselves, drug cartels disappear, and drugs are no longer heavily adulterated. (I am mostly against legalizing most drugs). I know Libertarians are usually in favour, but what about the rest?

PPS: A 16 year-old can't drive in the UK.

PPPS: Okay, a 17 year-old can...

Legalize drugs (i.e. don't ban possession of ANYTHING).. though using it to assault someone
might result in a civil tort action (in Liberatrian Utopia).

Legalize prostitution (or legalize those forms which exist outside of the charade
of dating/marriage etc.).

Legalize all behavior involving informed consenting adults.

Even duels for that matter.

Jekyll
25th November 04, 07:07 AM
Sorry, are you saying casual sex is illegal?
I knew nashville was ment to be dull but I didnt realise it was that bad.

Jekyll
25th November 04, 07:08 AM
I would wager that the UK has relatively less violent crimes than the USA on all levels. Our country was founded by violence, we are just a violent society.
I'll have you know we have a long and illustrious history of violence.

McDojo Artist
25th November 04, 08:21 AM
I'll have you know we have a long and illustrious history of violence.

Haha we pwnd you medievaly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kein Haar
25th November 04, 12:40 PM
I would wager that the UK has relatively less violent crimes than the USA on all levels.

You would be wrong.

Cannonfodder
25th November 04, 12:58 PM
Cultural differences aside (US / UK differences), i think its a reasonable way to `try` and reduce the number of kids carrying knives here in the Uk (along with stiffer sentencing). I think that the large majority of kids here in the UK, who carry knives, like to buy scary looking (`cool`) knives to impress/show their mates, so the law changes will have a positive effect here in the UK by removing these from the market. Yes the hard core knife carriers (who seem to tend to carry Stanley knives or such anyways) won’t be effected, but their not the people this law is aimed at. Sure, after the law is past there’s still lots of pointy weapons that kids could use, but the kudos factor of the Rambo knife (for example) isn’t there.


...That, or allow kids to carry big ass Rambo knives to school and allow them to thin down the `dumb ass` gene pool manually (accepting you’ll lose some innocents in the process).

Matsufubu
25th November 04, 01:57 PM
Haha we pwnd you medievaly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, but we aren't named after ugly and foul-tasting vegetables.

And what did you do with this power? Make Viking porn and flat-pack mud huts, I'll wager.

Kein Haar
25th November 04, 02:33 PM
Cannon,

So in other words, you're more concerned with a kid trying to look cool (who's probably benign like 99.99% of young males) than someone intent on violence with a box cutter.

That's like California banning bayonets on rifles...which they did.

Matsufubu
25th November 04, 04:20 PM
Cannon,

So in other words, you're more concerned with a kid trying to look cool (who's probably benign like 99.99% of young males) than someone intent on violence with a box cutter.

That's like California banning bayonets on rifles...which they did.

I think the point is that kids don't just try to look 'cool', they try to act 'hard'. When I was 11 I wanted a big knife so I could look cool. When I was 15 I wanted a big knife so I would look hard.

Cannonfodder
26th November 04, 05:18 AM
*Keinhaar wrote:
Cannon,
So in other words, you're more concerned with a kid trying to look
cool (who's probably benign like 99.99% of young males) than
someone intent on violence with a box cutter.*


..Sigh, read what Matsufubu said.
From my experience, of actually LIVING in the Uk, this law will help curb the youth knife culture here, but it won`t make it disappear (i don`t think a law could do that, its more a social/education issue). I guess from what your saying in the US it wouldn`t have any effect. Ok fair enough but i think , and so do many others who live here, that it will help here in the Uk (we do live in a different culture from you by the way).

Scott1
26th November 04, 08:03 AM
True.

And no-where is that more evident than on message boards.

"When a government decides that inert objects contain eeevil instead of people, we are all in trouble."

Eeeevil people need certain inert objects to do eeevil. So if it's more difficult for them to get hold of them, the less likely they are to do something stupid on an impulse.


"Since Britain banned handguns in 1996, "gun crimes have risen by 40%."

Gun crime would have risen anyway, since I'd wager that most gun crime is not perpetrated by people who own a legal gun.

"If you care so much about saving lives, then ban cars. Over a thousand people die every day in traffic accidents... and why does a 16 year old kid need a car? Insurance companies believe that younger drivers are more dangerous than those who are more experienced, and I bet they base that on better studies that you based your knife comment on."

Ridiculous bollocks. How can you possibly analogise a gun to a knife?

It's all a compromise, risk reduction balanced against practical uses of the object. The type of knives they want to ban are not your everyday kitchen knives etc. they're the type of weapons that (probably) come up repeatedly in reports of assaults in Scotland.

Well done to everybody who over-reacted on this thread. *clap clap* No, I don't think hands are going to be banned. Try using a bit of common sense.

Unfortunately in society it's the minority who fuck it up for the majority, and if a blanket ban on certain objects means that although I can't walk into my local convenience store and buy a machete, I'm less lilkely to be robbed by a teenager with one on my way home from the store, then it's a good thing.

All you libertarian guys who want to be able to do anything, buy anything, as long as you're not harming anyone else - that's fine, because you don't intend to harm anyone else. But what about the people who do? Do you really need those things? Isn't it worth NOT being able to get hold of them (for the sake of your 'rights') to stop some nutbag getting hold of them?

And yeah, proper criminals will still be able to get them. And there's nothing (or not a lot) you can do about that. But (I'd guess) the type of people who can get hold of illegal weapons easily are not going to use them on a member of the general public. They'll be used against other crims.

Things like Dunblane (school shooting) and that attack on a kindergarten with a sword were (correct me if I'm wrong) perpetrated with LEGAL weapons, by normal citizens with a big problem in their head.

And if the law stops that guy being able to get hold of such a weapon and go top himself instead, then it's worked.

And to the guy that started the thread, yes we have a good sense of self-awareness, thanks for asking. :icon_thum

Kein Haar
26th November 04, 05:49 PM
Try using a bit of common sense.

I keep trying to. I thought to myself prior to this "Haw haw...what's next? knives?"

Well, there ya go. I would NOT be surprised if your legislators started sniffing around martial arts next.

Jekyll
26th November 04, 07:50 PM
Oh what like you're asked to register your hands as you go into the states if you're a black belt.

Mohawk
26th November 04, 09:16 PM
Scott1-YOUR TRADING FREEDOM FOR SECURITY!!! If you want to be cattle thats fucking fine, eat your processed shit, get a job making money for some corporation, crank out a few pups (consumers) and die!