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View Full Version : Christian conservative leader: Top priority is appointment of conservative judges



PeedeeShaolin
5th November 04, 05:07 PM
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Christian conservative leaders say their top priority in President Bush's second term is the appointment of conservative judges to the Supreme Court and throughout the judicial system.

"We have high hopes of changing the judiciary. Every judicial appointment that President Bush makes will make the courts less radical and more in tune with the voters who turned out in Tuesday's election," said Gary Bauer (news - web sites), a prominent Christian conservative leader and president of American Values, a conservative pressure group.

This is exactly what we do NOT need. I'm going to openly support the president because he was elected and he's got a job to do but THIS is the part right here that scares me. Did I read this wrong or is the religious right admitting openly that they're trying to infiltrate the govt? I strongly believe in a firm seperation of church and state but I think these people want to merge the two, morality in particular.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1896&ncid=1896&e=6&u=/nm/20041105/us_nm/politics_christians_dc

Phrost
5th November 04, 05:14 PM
My answer to people is I will be your president regardless of your faith, and I don't expect you to agree with me, necessarily, on religion. As a matter of fact, no president should ever try to impose religion on our society. The great -- the great tradition of America is one where people can worship the way they want to worship. And if they choose not to worship, you're just as patriotic as your neighbor. That is an essential part of why we are a great nation.

And I am glad people of faith voted in this election. I'm glad -- I appreciate all people who voted. And I don't think you ought to read anything into the politics, the moment, about whether or not this nation will become a divided nation over religion. I think the great thing that unites us is the fact you can worship freely if you choose, and if you -- you don't have to worship. And if you're a Jew or a Christian or a Muslim, you're equally American. That is -- that is such a wonderful aspect of our society, and it is strong today and it will be strong tomorrow.


http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/2004/la-110404bushtext_wr,0,3189567.story?coll=la-home-headlines

The Wastrel
5th November 04, 05:16 PM
Right, and he doesn't believe in a "litmus test" for judges either. He just supports strict constructionists...In other words, he has a litmus test.

PeedeeShaolin
5th November 04, 05:17 PM
Thats what the president said, but presidents have a long history of saying one thing and doing another.

Do you think he MEANS it or will he appoint religious judges?

At least Ashcroft is gone, thats a HUGE plus for this administration.

But if a guy like Ashcfort can be appointed A.G. then I really cant see how it would be unthinkable to appoint extremely conservative judges.

Mr_Mantis
5th November 04, 05:18 PM
I am fairly frightened with what is going to happen. I hear Ashcroft is going to step down. This is great news. Could he be stepping down to get into the Chief Justice seat? This is horribly frightening!

I heard Bush on the radio yesterday respond to questions about his judicial appointments. To my horror, he basically stated that he would appoint those judges that he has picked in the past. Some of those judges were not qualified to be judges. In fact, I doubt he picks these people. I think they are picked by the Republican Party. Also, I believe that those judges pay quite a bit of money to the party before being put in those slots. We are talking hundreds of thousands.

Politics does not belong in the judicary! It is an outrage and a mockery of the system!

PeedeeShaolin
5th November 04, 05:18 PM
The article I mentioned says its the Christian Conservative leaders that are saying these things, not the president.

Phrost
5th November 04, 05:20 PM
Just expect to hold him to his word.

Think about it, it's his last term in office. He is under no obligation to pander to the religious right now.

The Wastrel
5th November 04, 05:20 PM
I am fairly frightened with what is going to happen. I hear Ashcroft is going to step down. This is great news. Could he be stepping down to get into the Chief Justice seat? This is horribly frightening!

I heard Bush on the radio yesterday respond to questions about his judicial appointments. To my horror, he basically stated that he would appoint those judges that he has picked in the past. Some of those judges were not qualified to be judges. In fact, I doubt he picks these people. I think they are picked by the Republican Party. Also, I believe that those judges pay quite a bit of money to the party before being put in those slots. We are talking hundreds of thousands.

Politics does not belong in the judicary! It is an outrage and a mockery of the system!


And remember, Mr. Mantis is a Christian.

Conservative columnist David Brooks joked on NPR yesterday that Bush's victory speech would be: We've won. I'm appointing John Ashcroft to the Supreme Court. Let the healing begin!

PeedeeShaolin
5th November 04, 05:23 PM
Think about it, it's his last term in office. He is under no obligation to pander to the religious right now.

This makes sense. I can see this administration mixing it up a bit and mellwoing out on the paybacks.

Hey....since he was only elected once does that mean he can run again? ;)

The Wastrel
5th November 04, 05:23 PM
Look, Dubya is the religious right.

afronaut
5th November 04, 05:30 PM
I am fairly frightened with what is going to happen. I hear Ashcroft is going to step down. This is great news. Could he be stepping down to get into the Chief Justice seat? This is horribly frightening!

I heard Bush on the radio yesterday respond to questions about his judicial appointments. To my horror, he basically stated that he would appoint those judges that he has picked in the past. Some of those judges were not qualified to be judges. In fact, I doubt he picks these people. I think they are picked by the Republican Party. Also, I believe that those judges pay quite a bit of money to the party before being put in those slots. We are talking hundreds of thousands.

Politics does not belong in the judicary! It is an outrage and a mockery of the system!

I think even Senate Republicans would choke on that. The moderates will be freaked out by his Ogre-ish disregard for the Bill of Rights and more people would be leary of appointing a Chief Justice who had never been a judge.

And of course, the Democrats would shit egg rolls and filibuster and raise Hell like it was their only job.

Actually, now it is there only job.

MrMcFu
5th November 04, 05:30 PM
This makes sense. I can see this administration mixing it up a bit and mellwoing out on the paybacks.

Hey....since he was only elected once does that mean he can run again? ;)

Awesome. Emperor to President in four easy years.

DCS
5th November 04, 05:31 PM
You don't use "separation of powers" (Administrative/Legislative/Judicial) doctrine?

The Wastrel
5th November 04, 05:39 PM
You don't use "separation of powers" (Administrative/Legislative/Judicial) doctrine?

We do, that's why control of appointments is so hotly contested.

Phrost
5th November 04, 05:46 PM
Don't they need a supermajority to confirm a supreme court justice?

Thaiboxerken
5th November 04, 05:50 PM
It's scary, and likely to be the goal of Bush as well. These people's goals are to make the US government a Christian government and they are making strides towards that goal.

Phrost
5th November 04, 05:51 PM
Support the ACLU.

The Wastrel
5th November 04, 05:56 PM
Don't they need a supermajority to confirm a supreme court justice?

Yes. But they always manage to play the game that the opposition is "holding up their appointments over politics". They even tried that with Robert Bork.

Phrost
5th November 04, 05:58 PM
I'm pretty sure if Ashcroft was appointed it wouldn't go through without both houses being 80% Republican or better.

Ashcroft's name isn't worth shit to any moderate of either party.

The Wastrel
5th November 04, 06:00 PM
I'm not talking about Ashcroft, but just any of the likely candidates. The Republican base already attacked Arlen Specter (R Pennsylvania) for warning against extremist nominations, and he backed the hell off fast. He's about as close to your politics as any Republican is liable to be.

afronaut
5th November 04, 06:15 PM
They are nominated to the bench like the rest of the Supremes and must be confirmed by 2/3 of the Senate. You can be nominated to an empty Supreme Court seat and you must be confirmed. But if you are already an associate justice, then you can be appointed directly to the Chief Justice position with no confirmation.

Mr_Mantis
5th November 04, 08:49 PM
And remember, Mr. Mantis is a Christian.



Separation of Church and State is evidenced in the Constitution. What could have been in the minds of the Framers when they drafted the 1st amendment? A State which guarantees a freedom of religion upon the people can not possibly maintain that duty if it is under the influence of any one of them.

It is not the duty or the provience of the Government to legislate "morality".

In fact, to do so, I believe is anti-Christian.

The Wastrel
5th November 04, 08:55 PM
Separation of Church and State is evidenced in the Constitution. What could have been in the minds of the Framers when they drafted the 1st amendment? A State which guarantees a freedom of religion upon the people can not possibly maintain that duty if it is under the influence of any one of them.

It is not the duty or the provience of the Government to legislate "morality".

In fact, to do so, I believe is anti-Christian.


You almost converted me.

bushi51
6th November 04, 05:26 AM
It is not the duty or the provience of the Government to legislate "morality".

In fact, to do so, I believe is anti-Christian.

What about this?

Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor. -Romans 13:1-7


I am not saying There should be no seperation. - EDITED for clarity.

Mr_Mantis
6th November 04, 09:41 AM
God has put into place 4 divine establishments. They are:

Volition
Marriage
Family
Nationalism


Adherence to these principles applies to everyone. Authority orientation is a great part of them. They were devised for the perpetuation of the human race. Their central purpose is the protection of human freedom.

I think the basis of that scripture you quoted was to remind believers that they must still submit to the authority of their rulers, remain authority oriented, even though the nations are ruled, at that time, by pagans.

Did I answer your question?

Peter H.
6th November 04, 10:24 AM
Even if Bush does begin nominating Ultra-fundies (and Wastrel, if you believe that Bush is Conservative Christian, you need to come visit my relatives, Bush is, at worst, Moderate Southern Baptist), he doesn't have the pull or backing to get them through the Senate and there is a tendency for justices to mellow and become moderate (both liberal and conservative) once appointed to the bench, and then, it takes a majority of the SC to do anything, so he would also have to appoint 4 justices so beable to manipulate the court.

There are enough checks in place to stop the judicial apocolypse I think people are fearing.

The Wastrel
6th November 04, 10:35 AM
Republicans on this board all talk so reasonably Why aren't they talking like this on any of the major partisan boards? Word is they're going to nuke Arlen Specter for daring to suggest that moderation in appointments might be a good idea.

And Peter H., while I am sure there are far more crazed zealots, Dubya is part of the religious right movement. He doesn't get to pretend to be a "compassionate conservative" again. Fool me once...

Thaiboxerken
6th November 04, 01:23 PM
Bush is moderate christian?! That's just bullshit, Bush is friends with televangelists for fucks sake. Also, under his administration, Federal museums have started selling Creationist books. Bush is also known to say Creationism is a valid alternative to Evolution. The idiot came up with the Faith-based initiatives and programs that give money to churches and push abstinence-only programs. The Bush administration has made it clear why they think faith based institutions that recieve federal money should be allowed to hire/fire people based on religious reasons.

Wounded Ronin
6th November 04, 07:48 PM
Bush's administration removes USAID funding from any NGOs that so much as mention abortion in their 3rd world reproductive health programs. That's certainly a religious stance.

Mr_Mantis
6th November 04, 09:44 PM
Abortion is not a sin. But hating people because they have an abortion is. So is feeling guilty if you have an abortion.

Kungfoolss
12th November 04, 02:21 AM
Thats what the president said, but presidents have a long history of saying one thing and doing another.

Do you think he MEANS it or will he appoint religious judges?

At least Ashcroft is gone, thats a HUGE plus for this administration.

But if a guy like Ashcfort can be appointed A.G. then I really cant see how it would be unthinkable to appoint extremely conservative judges.

Peedee, I think it's great you're now a supporter of the President and have seen the error of your "evil" ways. :icon_bigg But I really don't comprehend why you should have this phobia regarding judges with a religious bent. What's the big deal? The President's a religious man and hasn't done anything to subvert the will or beliefs of the American people in this regard.

Personally, I'd rather have a religious man on the bench than an atheist anytime. Atheists in general are liberals and liberals are fairly warped individuals.

MrMcFu
12th November 04, 03:08 AM
The President's a religious man and hasn't done anything to subvert the will or beliefs of the American people in this regard.

Don't forget to apply liberally :ky:

nihilist
12th November 04, 03:34 AM
The religious in general are conservatives and conservatives are fairly warped individuals.

See folks, with little effort on my part I can appear just as vacuous as Kungfoolss.

Look out KF! Gays want to exchange vows! Better put on your sperm-deflecting tinfoil.

Next they will want to be counted as human.

Stupidity transcends party lines. that's apparent to anyone capable of an objective viewpoint.

Thaiboxerken
12th November 04, 03:42 AM
The President's a religious man and hasn't done anything to subvert the will or beliefs of the American people in this regard.

If only this were true. Bush has funded churches and religious programs with public funds. He is promoting the religious program of "abstinence only" with public funds, these programs forbid teaching any sexual education in any other way. Over 14 states in the union now are passing bills to have people at abortion clinics sign a waiver that acknowledges that they understand "abortion raises risk in cancer" even though that is not a scientifically founded fact. Bush has tried to place a ban on extraction and dilation abortion procedures. Bush is trying his best to ban embrionic stem-cell research. All of these things he does for religious reasons, not reasons based on evidence and science.

Bush is trying hard to push christian morality upon the citizens of the USA, whether we agree with them or not.

nihilist
12th November 04, 03:49 AM
No abortions = millions of liberal babies.

Uh oh, a flaw in their plan...

Jsun102
12th November 04, 02:19 PM
But I really don't comprehend why you should have this phobia regarding judges with a religious bent. What's the big deal?

This comment is making everyone on the thread dumber.

nihilist
12th November 04, 11:14 PM
To understand KF, you have to focus in on the key part of each sentence thusly:

"I really don't comprehend "

See? easy.