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View Full Version : 850 UK troops to be deployed, Blair faces tough criticism.



PeedeeShaolin
21st October 04, 11:50 AM
Tony Blair faced some pretty harsh opposition when the U.S. requested Brittish forces be deployed closer to Baghdad.


Forty-five lawmakers, all but one of them members of Blair's Labour Party, signed a motion demanding a vote in the House of Commons on whether the request should be granted. Many are suspicious the request is politically motivated and designed to bolster President Bush before presidential elections on Nov. 2.

9,000 Brittish tropps have been stationed near Bara, a relatively peacefull area, and only 68 Brittish forces have been killed in Iraq compared to over 1,000 for the Americans.


The deeply unpopular war in Iraq has damaged Blair's credibility and trust ratings and many lawmakers are suspicious that the timing of the request is linked to U.S. presidential elections.


The 44 Labour lawmakers signing the motion represent around a tenth of Labour's 407 members of Parliament. Although statistically small, the number includes more than a dozen backbenchers usually loyal to the government. Regardless of the number of signatories, such a motion cannot force the government to hold a vote. The device is typically used by lawmakers to register concern and prompt debate.


Labour backbencher Marsha Singh urged Blair to refuse the U.S. request. He said the "hole dug over Iraq is big enough" and suggested it was time Blair listened to the British people and "high time we stopped digging."

In Brittain the war remains HUGELY unpopluar and many lawmakers did not have good things to say:

Labour lawmaker Andrew Mackinlay, a loyal backbencher, warned Blair not to test the patience of his lawmakers, many of whom are still seething over the absence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.


"We have to say thus far and no further," Mackinlay said earlier Wednesday. "We have given 110 percent and I think they are just asking too much of us."

Meanwhile, swcretary Geoff Hoon announced that close to 900 Black Watch toops would be deployed.

There were angry questions bordering on shouting coming from the benches after his statement.


"After careful evaluation, the chiefs of staff have advised me that UK forces are able to undertake the proposed operation, that there is a compelling military operational justification for doing so, and that it entails a militarily acceptable level of risk for UK forces," Mr Hoon said.

The 650-strong Black Watch regiment and about 200 support personnel would move from their base in Basra to near the capital Baghdad.


Mr Hoon denied newspaper reports claiming Britain planned to send a further 1,300 soldiers to Iraq.

Blair has promised the newly deployed troops will be home by Christmas.

The BBC asked the public for their opinions and most of them weren't oo happy:


A member of the Labour Party for over 20 years, I have today, cancelled my membership in protest at the political use of our troops to help save GW. I fully expect that America will attempt an all out attack on Falluja as a cynical vote winner. As someone who deplored Thatcher's use of our Police for her own political ends during the Miners Strike this is one step too far.
Chris Hogg, Northumberland, UK

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=535&ncid=535&e=7&u=/ap/20041020/ap_on_re_eu/britain_iraq

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/3761658.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/3749006.stm

The Wastrel
21st October 04, 11:56 AM
The only reason Blair's still around is that Labour faces no real political competition. But I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't last much longer.

PeedeeShaolin
21st October 04, 11:59 AM
He's facing some stiff opposition from his government.

Why do you suppose those troops will only need to be deployed until Christmas? Do you think the U.S. is going to annihilate Falluja?

Osiris
21st October 04, 12:01 PM
I cant believe balloon knot was banned.

WalkOn
21st October 04, 12:04 PM
I cant believe balloon knot was banned.

I felt this needed to be re-emphasized.

PeedeeShaolin
21st October 04, 12:10 PM
I cant believe balloon knot was banned.

Are you being serious or are you fuggling?

The Wastrel
21st October 04, 12:12 PM
I cant believe balloon knot was banned.


Quoted for truth. When I tried to get Balloonknot and Shady to comply with the policy, Balloonknot was polite and cooperative, while Shady went into a multi-thread tirade about "bias". He should have been banned. Long before Balloonknot.

PeedeeShaolin
21st October 04, 12:17 PM
Like I said from the start: Balloonknot was banned because some people just didn't like him.

He never really trolled (to cause problems) it was just that his way of communicating was annoying to alot of people. I dont think he did it on purpose I just think he didn't know how to discuss in the manner than was suddenly required.

However, if being annoying is a qualification for being banned then there are a few hundred others, including myself, that should be out the door as well.

Like it or not alot of people read his posts and even if you think HE never said anything worthwhile alot of worthwhile stuff came about from other members on threads he created.

Its a shame because he never did anything bad for the site and was a consistent poster.

Plus the arguments he and Shady had were pretty funny.

PeedeeShaolin
21st October 04, 12:23 PM
I dont even think Shady should be banned, and I fight with him alot.

He just doesn't try and purposely hurt the forums, he just discusses in a a way that makes you slap your forehead and sometimes giggle. I dont think he has any bad intentions for the site and is just thought to be annoying by certain people.

Being annoying shouldn't be a catalyst for being banned because EVERYONE is annoying to SOMEONE here. If this were the case I would have been banned back at mcdojo.com.

Bullshido is great because of the variety of people here which creates a variety of discussion. The more you lose the less character the forums have.

I know people dont like Kungfools either, but I really dont thing he tries to harm the forum in any way. People think he's arrogant but he also stirs up conversation that leads to interesting exchanges and a huge number of views from people that want to see where the converstaion goes next. I have no problem with Kungfools except when he insults JKDChick because I happen to like JKD very much, but some people just rub each other the wrong way like sandpaper and apples.

PeedeeShaolin
21st October 04, 12:24 PM
Another guy I miss is KungFuDoesWork. I wish he was still here because he knew alot about traditional Kung Fu and he balanced out the MMA types very well.

SamHarber
21st October 04, 05:38 PM
I'm confused by these references to "Lawmakers"

any change in the law has to be ratified by a majority vote in the House of Commons, then ratified by the House of Lords before coming before the Commons again. To say that there are " Forty-five lawmakers, all but one of them members of Blair's Labour Party" is doing a bit of a diservice to the shucksterism, deception and intimidation that is required for laws to be passed in the UK.

Freddy
21st October 04, 06:44 PM
(Going off topic abit.)

I personally dont believe anyone should be banned. (Wether its CaptShady or Ballonknot or KungFoolDoesWork etc.)
At least not banned permantly.

Deadpan Scientist
21st October 04, 07:14 PM
Osiris: the difference between captshady, peedee, and kungfoolss is that they follow the rules of the forum, which simply asks that you provide some kind of commentary with your own thoughts with any article you post. Otherwise we just have 100 threads of just article text with little thought or discussion.

This way when people post a story they actually have to think about what they're posting.

If a mod or admin warns someone for breaking a rule, and the person breaks it again, and KNOWS they are breaking it, they should expect some punishment. We don't have many rules here, but I think the ones we have are here for a good reason and should be respected.

LOVED2BLOVED
21st October 04, 08:02 PM
staying on topic, i think that it is good that blair has agreed to relocate the troops. Take the rough with the smooth. The black watch are highly capable.

SRK85
21st October 04, 08:42 PM
I cant believe balloon knot was banned.

HAHAHA I can but I miss him actually everyone bitching at him cuz if his posts.

Edit and yea UK is our bitch.

SLJ
22nd October 04, 03:19 AM
"Edit and yea UK is our bitch."

Thanks Captain Obvious, but you do happen to be the most powerfull country in the world. You'd have to be some special kind of morons (read: French) to go against you.

SRK85
22nd October 04, 01:54 PM
"Edit and yea UK is our bitch."

Thanks Captain Obvious, but you do happen to be the most powerfull country in the world. You'd have to be some special kind of morons (read: French) to go against you.
I know were the most powerful but most of the world hates us cuz we boss around everyone. Our country is way too cocky and arrogant.

Scrapper
22nd October 04, 02:42 PM
The US is powerful, and it is the burden of the powerful to put up with the whining of the not-so-powerful (read: French). The Brits have been our best ally for years, and Blair is investing in Britain's future by supporting the US even when we are unpopular (read: every time we do something that doesn't directly giving money to any and all whining countries.). Iraq was a shithole stinking up the middle east thanks to Saddam. The US went to clean up the shit, and now we are stuck with the smell. Now everyone hates us because we smell like shit.

Now it is extremely likely that the US miltairy is going to turn Fallujah into a giant crater, very probably resulting in the destruction of a particularly vicious and sociopathic terrorist group. (who incidentally is now holding a british-born charity-worker hostage) Britain is going to help us do it. What do you suppose the world's reaction to this will be? (here is a hint...we ain't gonna smell good afterwards...people may actually die!)

Bottom line: It is OK to hate America...all the cool kids are doing it. But Blair is allright by me.

SamHarber
22nd October 04, 05:30 PM
The war in Iraq is actually pretty low down my list of reasons for wanting blair to breath in several lungfuls of sewage.
His domestic policies, for want of a better description, suck donkeys. So do most of his foriegn policies.

Heres a quick question for the americans in the audience - Why was the first american governor of Iraq (Jay Garner) ordered by the pentagon not to use the reconstruction plan that the state department had spent a year putting together?

And for the british in the audience, are you aware that the foriegn office tried to get the Uzbekistani ambassador sacked on false charges because he objected in an internal memo to the use of information by british intelligence gathered under torture by the Uzbekis?

Just to stop this thread getting stale :)

LOVED2BLOVED
23rd October 04, 06:03 PM
Just to stop this thread getting stale :)

it already stinks like shit

SLJ
25th October 04, 03:47 AM
I agree Tony's domestic policies do suck, but I'm with him on helping America, whoever they've got at the helm.

And the Black Watch are soldiers, they probably want some action or they wouldn't have signed up.

Freddy
25th October 04, 11:38 AM
I think thats refer to as the blind leading the blind.
You (not directed at anyone) cant be anymore brain dead than to following some nations policy for the sake of it without an once of thought.
Even Canada had enough sense to show that it would be a bad ideal to go into Iraq but noooooo! No one listen. :badgrin: