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PeedeeShaolin
5th October 04, 01:14 PM
Alot of people ask me why I have suchn a hard-on for Israel.

Well even without the evidence that Israel spys on the USA and selling weapons to China, Israel was involved in one of the most massive and blatant cases of terrorism the world has ever seen in the form of the attack on Lebanon, killing over 20,000.

This was right around the time when a president was losing his mind and memory and so commanded his forces to battle terrorism in 2 distinct places: Central America and the Middle East.

We wont even get into the U.S. sponsored terrorism in places like El Salvador(which was really a war against the Catholic Church), and in Nicaragua(which led the U.S. to be the ONLY state thats been convicted of "international terrorism).

Instead we'll turn our attention to the Middle East.

When Israel invaded Lebanon and killed 20,000+, it was the clearest case of international terrorism that anyone can recall. It was only able to take place because the United States backed it, providing arms, and giving diplomatic support by vetoing several UN resolutions that were designed to get that fighting to STOP as quickly as possible.

The major mistake that people assume(anywhere except in Israel) is that this was somehow a war against terrorism. It wasn't. In Israel this war was openly called "A war for the occupied territories" and the MAIN GOAL was to remove the PLO from negotiations.

You see, back then the PLO was getting very insistent re:negotiations...something that Israel didn't want. The PLO was annoying with all its talk about negotiations and so had to be removed from the table.

Israel succeded in chasing the PLO from the land and ruining the talks.

I have nevr personally seen a more clear cut example of international terrorism with a rock solid U.S. backing.

If you ask anyone familiar with this event thay will say that I'm WRONG and that it WASN'T terrorism....but something much worse. What we SHOULD call it is blatant AGGRESSION...and if THATS true then it calls for criminal trials of those invloved.

If you take the U.S. definition for "terrorism" Israel's invasion of Lebanon is crystal clear and fits right in. Theres no argument here. There can be no clearer example.

If you take the info at the time from Israel than we come to the conclusion that this was a war for the West Bank. It was a war to eliminate any threat of negotiations coming from the Palestinian people.

This has been known for quite some time but its taboo in the American media to even MENTION it,

Later the Israelis, in an "act of armed aggression" would go on to bomb Tunis, an American ally, with smart bombs killing 75 civillians(tunisians and palestinians).

George Schultz went on to congratulate Israel while simultaneously showing sympathy for those affected.

Schultz was forced to eat some crow when the UN Security council unanimously passed a resolution condemning Israel for "armed aggression" forcing the U.S. to abstain from the vote.

Armed aggression is far worse than terrorism.

Armed aggression is state sponsored terrorism.

History aside, you'll hear alot more about Israel as the situation there gets worse and worse. The UN has already passed a resolution making the barrier illegal and they've abandoned the Bush Administration's "Road Map" which the Palestinians(including Hamas) had honored until Israel violated the cease fire this year.

CaptShady
5th October 04, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by PeedeeShaolin
Well even without the evidence that Israel spys on the USA and selling weapons to China

Didn't Clinton do this too? Well .. not specifically weapons, just design and engineering plans .. I guess that makes all the difference.

Like his selling uranium refinery utilities to N. Korea.

PeedeeShaolin
5th October 04, 01:25 PM
Way to mention Clinton in a thread on ISRAEL.

After reading that WHOLE THING thats the ONLY thing you can comment on? How about an ON TOPIC comment from CaptShady huh?

\What do you think about the REST of the post, the OTHER 99% of what you read?

CaptShady
5th October 04, 01:38 PM
If you're going to condemn Israel for selling anything to China, then Clinton is a relevant factor because 1) he's your boy blue 2) it shows your hypocrisy and close mindedness to all relevant issues. You just care about your PARTY being elected.

Judah Maccabee
5th October 04, 02:22 PM
I especially love how you post statements without proof or substantiation. How about 200,000 casualties instead of 20,000? Christ,

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mf11.html


A force of some 15-18,000 PLO members was encamped in scores of locations in Lebanon. About 5,000-6,000 were foreign mercenaries, coming from such countries as Libya, Iraq, India, Sri Lanka, Chad and Mozambique.1 Israel discovered enough light arms and other weapons in Lebanon to equip five brigades.2 The PLO had an arsenal that included mortars, Katyusha rockets, and an extensive anti-aircraft network. The PLO also brought hundreds of T-34 tanks into the area.3 Syria, which permitted Lebanon to become a haven for the PLO and other terrorist groups, brought surface-to-air missiles into that country, creating yet another danger for Israel.

=====


The PLO had repeatedly violated the July 1981 cease-fire agreement. In the ensuing 11 months, the PLO staged 270 terrorist actions in Israel, the West Bank and Gaza, and along the Lebanese and Jordanian borders. Twenty-nine Israelis died, and more than 300 were injured in the attacks.4 The situation in the Galilee became intolerable as the frequency of attacks forced thousands of residents to flee their homes or to spend large amounts of time in bomb shelters. During this period, Israel launched retaliatory raids against PLO bases in Lebanon.

After Israel launched one such assault on June 4-5, 1982, the PLO responded with a massive artillery and mortar attack on the Israeli population of the Galilee. On June 6, the IDF moved into Lebanon to drive out the terrorists.



====


Countless Lebanese told harrowing tales of rape, mutilation and murders committed by PLO forces. The PLO "killed people and threw their corpses in the courtyards. Some of them were mutilated and their limbs were cut off. We did not go out for fear that we might end up like them," said two Arab women from Sidon. "We did not dare go to the beach, because they molested us, weapons in hand." The women spoke of an incident, which occurred shortly before the Israeli invasion, in which PLO men raped and murdered a woman, dumping her body near a famous statue. A picture of the victim's mangled corpse had been printed in a local newspaper.7

Dr. Khalil Torbey, a distinguished Lebanese surgeon, told an American journalist that he was "frequently called in the middle of the night to attend victims of PLO torture. I treated men whose testicles had been cut off in torture sessions. The victims, more often than not, were...Muslims. I saw men live men dragged through the streets by fast-moving cars to which they were tied by their feet."8


====


"It is clear to anyone who has traveled in southern Lebanon, as have many journalists and relief workers, that the original figures of 10,000 dead and 600,000 homeless...were extreme exaggerations," wrote the New York Times' David Shipler, a sharp critic of the Israeli war effort.10

The 600,000 homeless figure originated in mid-June 1982 with the Palestine Red Crescent, headed by Yasser Arafat's brother Fathi. Francesco Noseda of the International Committee of the Red Cross, who had originally used the bogus number, later repudiated it.11

Of course, there would have been zero dead or homeless if the PLO hadn't used south Lebanon as a base from which to menace Israel.

Judah Maccabee
5th October 04, 02:54 PM
btw, based on your argumentation in your first post, you are now a Chomskyite in my mind.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/189355497X/qid=1097005500/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_2_1/102-7303962-4202568

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAAAAAA! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!

Speaking of US Definitions of Terrorism:


Title 22 of the US Code, Section 2656f(d):

The term "terrorism" means premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents, usually intended to influence an audience.

The term "international terrorism" means terrorism involving the territory or the citizens of more than one country.

The term "terrorist group" means any group that practices, or has significant subgroups that practice, international terrorism.



I would call the PLO actions against the Lebanese terrorism, given that those mutilated and such were non-combatant civilians. As for Israel's actions against Lebanon, taking military action against a military force numbering in the several thousands doesn't sound much like terrorism to me or the US code.

Xango
5th October 04, 04:03 PM
http://www.saunalahti.fi/sakarit/kerro-lisaa/troll.jpg

CaptShady
5th October 04, 04:08 PM
When did the PLO become so damned noble in your book?

Judah Maccabee
5th October 04, 09:26 PM
WHEN THEY BLEW UP AMERIKKKAN AIRLINERZZZ

PeedeeShaolin
5th October 04, 11:05 PM
Dont call me a troll you fuckstick. Its not my fault you never learned to read and thus have no idea of what the adults are talking about here.

Shady and Steve both dont know what the fuck they're talking about. Thats what makes it so amusing to read.

Mohawk
5th October 04, 11:08 PM
If you don't agree with him you don't know what your talking about.

PeedeeShaolin
5th October 04, 11:10 PM
If you don't agree with him you don't know what your talking about.

Only if I happen to be correct my friend.

Then your statement would be correct as well.

In this case we are both correct as is obvious.

Judah Maccabee
5th October 04, 11:11 PM
I don't have any idea what I'm talking about? This is the third time: You have not substantiated any of your statements or assertions beyond posting links to news stories of alleged "atrocities" that the IDF is perpetrating in the PA Territories. I have copiously substantiated all my views. Your statement that Israel "massacred 20,000 people in state-sponsored terrorism" was turned on its head.

You have one more chance to establish yourself as a reputable poster. chris_hutchins and SRK85 have made efforts to substatiate themselves. I would hope a former admin of a website would know how to justify their perspectives on a given issue. It's a necessary quality of leadership.

Your "one example" that gives you such a "hard-on" for Israel isn't even a legitimate one!

PeedeeShaolin
5th October 04, 11:21 PM
Read a fucking book you lazy bastard.

I'd suggest "A House of Many Mansions" by Kamal Salibi and "Lebanon: A Shatered Country" by Elizabeth Picard.

Do you know how to read son?

Judah Maccabee
5th October 04, 11:28 PM
Originally posted by PeedeeShaolin
Read a fucking book you lazy bastard.

I'd suggest "A House of Many Mansions" by Kamal Salibi and "Lebanon: A Shatered Country" by Elizabeth Picard.

Do you know how to read son?

I also know how to spell "shattered." :)

And this is the part where you've said "I think you're wrong, but for whatever reason, I don't feel like discussing the issue to back up my points." Who's the lazy bastard now, you "shatered" simp?

PeedeeShaolin
5th October 04, 11:46 PM
Man you think I care if you caught me fucking up typing? What are you a tight ass or something? You're not on my level when it comes to this discussion so I really dont want to waste any more time talking to you. You have alot of reading to do.

Judah Maccabee
5th October 04, 11:47 PM
I'm not going to go out and buy a book because some has-been admin told me to right before he told me to suck his wang.

s_s = Winner

PeedeeShaolin
5th October 04, 11:48 PM
"has been admin" LMMFAO!

PeedeeShaolin
5th October 04, 11:48 PM
If you were any cornier I would say you were Brand under a different name.

Judah Maccabee
6th October 04, 12:02 AM
If you were any smarter, you'd lose your tax-credit status for special needs education.

inde
6th October 04, 12:49 PM
There is a double standard with regards to Isreal. The following is borrowed from another poster at a different forum, but I believe it applies.



Of course, as you point out most in the Western world do not know of the policy of the United Nations and the world community with respect to Arabs and Israel. The following are publically known and recorded instances of political actions UN and world community policy.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Arab nations have always used deadly force with no restraint and no apologies to the U.N. or the world at large. The Egyptians have frequently used deadly force to contain the Muslim Brotherhood who attack Egyptian institutions. When the Palestinians rioted on the Egyptian side of the border with Gaza at the start of the first Intifada in 1989, Egypt had her policemen indiscriminately gun down the rioters with submachine guns and then get back into their vehicles, leaving 20-30 rioters dead on the ground. The Egyptians riots (Intifada) in Egypt ended. (The U.N. did NOT vote condemnation of Egypt.)

In Jordan September 1970 King Hussein had his Army kill an estimated 10,000 of Arafat's Palestinians, with the rest fleeing to Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and Iran. Arafat's gun-toting PLO was going to take over Jordan but Hussein moved faster and with greater force. This was called Black September with no apologies by King Hussein. (The U.N. did NOT vote condemnation of Jordan.)

Later Arafat created a mini-PLO state inside Lebanon while killing more than 75,000 Lebanese Christians and Muslims. Arafat's law of killing off his enemies to make more room for his Palestinians was his formal foreign policy - which led to a 12 year Civil War and a total of over 100,000 dead. (The U.N. did NOT vote condemnation.) Arafat has initiated an almost identical war against Israel as he did against Lebanon.

The U.N. did NOT vote to condemn Syria for ignoring the TAIF agreement wherein they committed to leave Lebanon. The U.N. did NOT vote to condemn Syria for taking over Lebanon with 35,000 to 40,000 troops; for using the Beka'a Valley in Lebanon as a opium field which produced 20% of the heroin smuggled into America; or for undermining world currency by counterfeiting $100 bills.

In 1982 the IDF (Israel Defense Force) came into Lebanon to counter Arafat's terror attacks and to prevent his "March on Jerusalem" (according to documents and weapons discovered in huge bunkers and deep, long tunnels). The Lebanese people welcomed the IDF with flowers, expecting to be delivered from Arafat's brutal tyranny. Later Syria, with U.S. and U.N. silent approval, occupied Lebanon with 35,000 troops where they remain to this day. (The U.N. DID vote to condemn Israel and left the Syrians entrenched and in power against the Lebanese.)

In Syria Hafez al Assad dealt with those who opposed him with Genocidal deadly force. Who can forget that he and his brother Rifat surrounded the town of Hamma and, with artillery and tank gun fire, leveling the city? Or that Assad went over the rubble with poison gas to insure that survivors would be gassed to death? The nations and media were virtually silent about this massacre killing of an estimated 20,000 Syrians. (The United Nations did NOT condemn Assad.)

More recently, Saddam Hussein of Iraq attacked Kuwait, with the assistance of Arafat's Palestinians who worked in Kuwait. They not only became a fifth column inside their host (Arab) country but they guided Saddam's troops in their rape, massacre and pillaging of their Kuwaiti hosts. After the Gulf War, Desert Storm, the Kuwaitis paid them back in kind by killing and torturing those they caught. The Kuwaitis ejected more than 300,000 Palestinians into Jordan as untrustworthy and deadly enemies. (The U.N. did NOT vote condemnation for this transfer or killing of the rampaging Palestinians.)

At the same time Saudi Arabia deported into Jordan an equal number of Palestinians who had worked there (approximately 350,000) because they were considered a deadly threat to the country and to the Royal Family. (The U.N. did NOT condemn this transfer of Palestinians.)

Freddy
6th October 04, 01:51 PM
There are double standards everywhere.

Ask Amnesty International and other human rights groups.