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PeedeeShaolin
22nd September 04, 01:18 PM
Today Reuters reported that millions of Americans will be blocked from voting because of "legal barriers, faulty procedures or dirty tricks".



The largest category of those legally disenfranchised consists of almost 5 million former felons who have served prison sentences and been deprived of the right to vote under laws that have roots in the post-Civil War 19th century and were aimed at preventing black Americans from voting.


But millions of other votes in the 2000 presidential election were lost due to clerical and administrative errors while civil rights organizations have cataloged numerous tactics aimed at suppressing black voter turnout. Polls consistently find that black Americans overwhelmingly vote for Democrats.

Not that Democrats are really any better than Republicans, but they've been sold that anyhow.

I followed this pretty close last election because its unbelievable the things that these people do to stop blacks from voting:

"There are individuals and officials who are actively trying to stop people from voting who they think will vote against their party and that nearly always means stopping black people from voting Democratic," said Mary Frances Berry, head of the U.S. Commission on Human Rights.


Vicky Beasley, a field officer for People for the American Way, listed some of the ways voters have been "discouraged" from voting.


"In elections in Baltimore in 2002 and in Georgia last year, black voters were sent fliers saying anyone who hadn't paid utility bills or had outstanding parking tickets or were behind on their rent would be arrested at polling stations. It happens in every election cycle," she said

You don't say!

The article also mentions that in the mayoral election in Philly there were people pretending to be plainclothes police officers standing outside voting stations asking people to identify themselves. There were also unidentified people videotaping them.


Minority voters may be deterred from voting simply by election officials demanding to see drivers' licenses before handing them a ballot, according to Spencer Overton, who teaches law at George Washington University. The federal government does not require people to produce a photo identification unless they are first-time voters who registered by mail.

Very simple scare tactic: you tell people they will be punished for something stupid if they vote and then intimidate them at the actual event.

The U.S. commison on Civil Rights reported that in 2000 black voters were "10 times more likely than non-black voters to have their ballots rejected and were often prevented from voting because their names were erroneously purged from registration lists."


"This has a huge effect on elections but also on black communities which see their political clout diluted. No one has yet explained to me how letting ex-felons who have served their sentences into polling booths hurts anyone," said Jessie Allen of the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University.

Amen to that.

TylerDurden
22nd September 04, 01:21 PM
No no, you must be mistaken. Racism was cured in America a long time ago.

PeedeeShaolin
22nd September 04, 01:28 PM
Oh thats right, I forgot.

cyrijl
22nd September 04, 01:31 PM
If blacks are being prevented from voting it is a serious issue. One problem is the number of volunteers. We want to pay every for everything and yet let elections be run in a half-assed way.

However, the places where black votes are the strongest the democrats still won those states. PA and MD both went to Gore. GA went to bush but probably would have even if no blacks were stopped from voting.
http://www.archives.gov/federal_register/electoral_college/2000/members.html#ga

TylerDurden
22nd September 04, 01:32 PM
And Florida? Lots of black people in Florida. Reports of State Troopers stopping black drivers on the way to the polls were pretty common.

cyrijl
22nd September 04, 01:34 PM
source?



Pd what is the title of the article you posted i could not find it on reuters.

ICY
22nd September 04, 02:10 PM
The largest category of those legally disenfranchised consists of almost 5 million former felons who have served prison sentences and been deprived of the right to vote

Who cares? Do former felons deserve to vote? In Canada the law has gone back and forth on this multiple times in the last 10 years, so to say that this sort of law is archaic is rather silly.

PeedeeShaolin
22nd September 04, 02:21 PM
Fucking thing disappeared on Reuters! I checked Yahoo and they had a link though:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040922/pl_nm/campaign_vote_dc_3

cyrijl
22nd September 04, 03:05 PM
thanks for the source. I like to read articles not cut up

The author has a problem with prisons too.

The largest category of those legally disenfranchised consists of almost 5 million former felons who have served prison sentences and been deprived of the right to vote under laws that have roots in the post-Civil War 19th century and were aimed at preventing black Americans from voting I'd like to see him with some evidence for this.


African Americans are four to five times less likely than whites to have a photo ID," Overton said at a recent briefing on minority disenfranchisement. Then a national id might be a good idea. Why do black ppl have less photo id? And i won't even get into the idiocy of calling black ppl african americans.


The federal government does not require people to produce a photo identification unless they are first-time voters who registered by mail. This says nothing about state law which may require photo ID. Federal law is only relevant if it sepcifically states that ID does NOT have to be shown and CANNOT be asked for.


Additionally, Florida is one of 14 states that prohibit ex-felons from voting. Seven percent of the electorate but 16 percent of black voters in that state are disenfranchised. You are not disenfranchised if you got your ass in prison

There is alot more i could do to this article.

BTW this is not an objective source. Elsner is a big anti-corporation and anti-prison guy.

Wounded Ronin
22nd September 04, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by cyrijl
You are not disenfranchised if you got your ass in prison




Sure you are. Whether or not you "deserved" it is beside the point. From that point on you have legal restrictions on your ability to do things, social stigma to deal with, in addition to the poverty and such you might have already been dealing with.


It's not a constructive social strategy to ignore social problems because you think that you're better than other citizens.

cyrijl
22nd September 04, 03:23 PM
It is not constructive social policy to get your ass thrown in prison either. And you can stop with your whiny liberal bullshit. You do not know me or who i associate with. This is the type of attack which comes form the left. When did i ever say i was better than anyone?

Let me guess, you do not have any documents but since you feel it is the truth it must be.

Ignoring social problems? Isn't that what we have done since the civil rights act of '65? We pretend that we are all equal and if we have enough black ppl on the dole it will be ok? Ignoring social problems begins with denying the problem and refusing to assign personal responsibility. The gap between blacks and white economically has grown since the civil rights era. This is becuz now white ppl can say 'we have done all we can.' When 1/3 of black men are either dead or in jail, there comes a time when we need to look at our black urban culture instead of assigning blame to nameless faceles corporations. Bill Cosby did it and everyone had a fit.

TylerDurden
22nd September 04, 03:31 PM
You are not required to produce id to vote unless you are registering for the first time.

Rigante
22nd September 04, 04:17 PM
In the 2000 election the predominantly black communities in St. Louis were allowed illegally to keep voting more than 2 hrs after the polls were supposed to be shut down in all of Missouri. It finally took a court order to shut them down. So I guess it works both ways.

Kempocos
22nd September 04, 04:23 PM
I love all the statements that keep being made yet nobody ever names the people who have been stopped, it is just " thousnads of people" yet not one ever spoke up. Cops pulling over blacks for traffic violations that has to be to surpress the vote. How about one politician or person who was involved from commnets there should be dozens. Bush has a balance in the administration of minorites and women, How many has Kerry named ... NONE, How many did Clinton have..... None. I think accusations should come with proof.

Wounded Ronin
22nd September 04, 07:41 PM
Originally posted by cyrijl
[B]It is not constructive social policy to get your ass thrown in prison either. And you can stop with your whiny liberal bullshit. You do not know me or who i associate with. This is the type of attack which comes form the left. When did i ever say i was better than anyone?



Way to respond with a blazing non-sequitur. What an individual does (i.e. get convicted) has nothing to do with "social policy". "Social policy", however, must be created with this population in mind, as well as with non-convicts in mind. This actually has nothing to do with whom you associate with; good way of putting words in my mouth.





Let me guess, you do not have any documents but since you feel it is the truth it must be.



Are you confused or something? You want me to come up with documents saying that social policy should take all members of the society into consideration?





Ignoring social problems? Isn't that what we have done since the civil rights act of '65? We pretend that we are all equal and if we have enough black ppl on the dole it will be ok? Ignoring social problems begins with denying the problem and refusing to assign personal responsibility. The gap between blacks and white economically has grown since the civil rights era. This is becuz now white ppl can say 'we have done all we can.' When 1/3 of black men are either dead or in jail, there comes a time when we need to look at our black urban culture instead of assigning blame to nameless faceles corporations. Bill Cosby did it and everyone had a fit.


Oh, okay. So our social problems are the fault of black people. Is that what you're saying?


You're still missing the damn point. When you try to create social policy, you don't sit down and say, "It's all the fault of X group of people! We must punish them!". You have to accept the social realities and work with them as best as you can, and not expect any group of people do do something that you want just because you want them to.

I mean, seriously. What are you proposing? That we shame people into becoming rich? That you will change social problems by sheer force of will and by telling people repeatedly that they're bad?

Hedgehogey
22nd September 04, 08:05 PM
Consider the following:

1: Black people are arrested and put in prison, far more than whites even when the crime is one commited equally by both whites and blacks. For instance, black people are ten times more likely to be arrested and put in prison for drug possesion DESPITE THE FACT THAT BLACKS AND WHITES COMMIT THAT CRIME AT AN EQUAL RATE

2: The number of blacks in prison far outnumbers the number of whites. Prisoners and apperantly ex cons cannot vote.

I would estimate that a black, poor american has perhaps 25% the voting ability/power of a rich, white american.

SRK85
22nd September 04, 08:20 PM
Originally posted by cyrijl
If blacks are being prevented from voting it is a serious issue. One problem is the number of volunteers. We want to pay every for everything and yet let elections be run in a half-assed way.

However, the places where black votes are the strongest the democrats still won those states. PA and MD both went to Gore. GA went to bush but probably would have even if no blacks were stopped from voting.
http://www.archives.gov/federal_register/electoral_college/2000/members.html#ga

Damn replublicans

Deadpan Scientist
22nd September 04, 08:34 PM
IMHO, criminals should not be able to vote or hold office

TylerDurden
22nd September 04, 09:43 PM
Criminals no, but they were not just stopping criminals.

cyrijl
23rd September 04, 10:28 AM
SRK85 you are an idiot.

As far as WR is concerned. Some blame must be layed at the foot of the black ppl for the condition they are in. Nobody wants to look at things the black community could do to prevent the spread of crime and disease. It is just easier to say racist racism than it is to fix things.

SRK85
23rd September 04, 02:12 PM
Well yea Black ppl have to stop killing each other and do something. The problem is education the schools in the ghetto is so bad. And the only way to make money in the ghetto is to deal drugs and be a criminal. Not all black ppl are criminal but they need a better chance. Whitey has stop keeping black ppl down.

Peter H.
23rd September 04, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by SRK85
Well yea Black ppl have to stop killing each other and do something. The problem is education the schools in the ghetto is so bad. And the only way to make money in the ghetto is to deal drugs and be a criminal. Not all black ppl are criminal but they need a better chance. Whitey has stop keeping black ppl down.

I'm hoping to god that is sarcasm. Otherwise, it is the most ignorant racist crap I have seen in a while. Only way to make money in the ghetto is to deal drugs, that's bullshit. It's that kind of thinking that perpetuates the stereotype that all poor blacks are criminals.

joen00b
23rd September 04, 05:15 PM
I read an article a few months ago from a Florida Newspaper. The police were sending plains clothes officer to the homes of elderly minorities to check their voting validity. They arrive, come inside, make the person jump through hoops and leave. Basically, they were being intimidating and scared from voting. The message they relayed was: If you vote, you're going to be legally harrassed.

This was a task force created by Jeb Bush. I only wish I could find the article, if I get a chancec to Google it, I will otherwise, do a search on Jeb Bush's Vote Task Force or something along those lines.

SRK85
23rd September 04, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by Peter H.
I'm hoping to god that is sarcasm. Otherwise, it is the most ignorant racist crap I have seen in a while. Only way to make money in the ghetto is to deal drugs, that's bullshit. It's that kind of thinking that perpetuates the stereotype that all poor blacks are criminals.

HAHA i was jk. There are plenty of bad apples in any race.

SRK85
23rd September 04, 06:56 PM
And yeah there are plenty of kids at my school that deal drugs and there not black.

cyrijl
25th September 04, 01:42 PM
Growing up, i was a lower middle class kid. Single Mother who worked at least two jobs to raise three kids. My closest friends until college have been predominately black. These were kids whose parent(s) worked hard to get then out of the cities where a certain attitude thrives. As far as i know, none of the parent recieved welfare or sold drugs. They worked hard and instilled good values in their kids.

Black people i have met who come here from somewhere other than the US are amazed at the attitude of black people here. Whether african, haitian or from europe they all have remarked to me how people here (including alot of white people) do not want to work for anything.

PeedeeShaolin
25th September 04, 01:47 PM
Black people i have met who come here from somewhere other than the US are amazed at the attitude of black people here. Whether african, haitian or from europe they all have remarked to me how people here (including alot of white people) do not want to work for anything.

And yet Americans now work more hours than even the Japanese.

Dont you think there are people in EVERY country that dont want to work and are lazy? I doubt its an American exclusive.

cyrijl
25th September 04, 01:51 PM
americans are the hardest working industrialized nation. Actually, in japan they take more work home and stay later in the office.

In singapore, office work is typically from 8:30 to 6:30 if not later monday through friday and alternate saturdays. But thanks for ignoring the message.

PeedeeShaolin
25th September 04, 02:04 PM
I didnt ignore anything. You contadict yourself.

You said that

Black people i have met who come here from somewhere other than the US

Which I'm sire is a VAST amount that knows THOUSNADS of Americans and are fit to place judgement on them


are amazed at the attitude of black people here. Whether african, haitian or from europe they all have remarked to me how people here (including alot of white people) do not want to work for anything.

You then go on to say


americans are the hardest working industrialized nation.

So I would assmune you disagree with those people you were quoting, correct?

PeedeeShaolin
25th September 04, 02:07 PM
And yeah there are plenty of kids at my school that deal drugs and there not black.

Your government, and Pfizer and other large drug companies, deal more drugs to kids than any black people. Those drugs are called Ritalin, Prozac, Zoloft, Serenity, Vicoden, Paxil, Valium....you know, the new #1 drug abuser-preference in the country.

cyrijl
25th September 04, 02:08 PM
OK, here is the downlow.

The black people i meet think the black people here have it harder than white, but believe the black peopel here are generally lazy.

My wife is not from the US and she thinks the same thing. Even if it is only a perception, there is a reason why that perception exists.

PeedeeShaolin
25th September 04, 02:17 PM
There may be a reason that perception exists but it doesn;t have to be a qualified reason.

Your wife, and you, know enough black people to judge a 1 bedroom house.

cyrijl
25th September 04, 02:21 PM
Actually my black friends are all doing well SINCE they moved out of the cities. The ones from africa and the carribean always had good families. But thanks for being so close minded.

i like how nobody can judge anything except you.

PeedeeShaolin
25th September 04, 02:23 PM
i like how nobody can judge anything except you.

You learned this quickly AND you even said you like it. Very good, we will get along well my son.

Maybe the more Americans you PACK into a place, like cities, the more violence you get. Even MURDER, which is more than any other country.

Why is that?

cyrijl
25th September 04, 02:39 PM
I think the problem are ppl like jackson and sharpton who tell people they are victims and deserve something.

No doubt black people in this countru have it harder than white people, but when you have people saying that black people cannot succeed, that probably does nore harm than good. I know quite a few successful black people who got that way from working hard. You have to have motivation.

As much as i like hip-hop and black entertainment. I fell as though sometimes it may hinder and obscure young black people. Why the hell is 50 Cent a role model? He is a criminal, he is homophobic, he is a mysongynist. His beats are ok but his lyrics are weak like airplane tea. BUT he is heralded in the black community. Some people can listen to the music and realize what it is. Some people (esp young impressionable kids) listen and see it as something to emulate.