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View Full Version : Has the U.S. military brought more chaos and death to Iraq than Saddam Hussein?



PeedeeShaolin
19th September 04, 01:37 PM
Like I predicted over 2 years ago we now have civil war just WAITING to explode all over Iraq with the hapless U.S. military unable to do anything but shoot at people who shoot at them and drop the random bomb on the nearest home that might be a "terrorist" training house.

We've seen the media skillfully transform the Iraqis fighting against the Americans into "terrorists" from the "Insurgents" they were and the "Saddam loyalists" they were before that.

So who do you guys think has brought more carnage to Iraq and its people: the U.S. military or Saddam Hussein?

I personally have got to go with the U.S. because things have NEVER been this bad in Iraq as far as I can tell. Bombs going off, policemen dead, Americans AND Iraqis blown up, beheadings. Makes for good TV but doesn't make for good living conditions for the Iraqi people.

Saddam was a nutcase but he was able to do what the Americans cannot: keep control over a bunch of wild muslims that are sitting over a goldmine of oil.

Too bad he proved to be a bit unstable as our surrogate dictator in that region because he was doing a great job when he was our boy wasn't he?

Deadpan Scientist
19th September 04, 01:41 PM
saddam has had a lot more time.

PeedeeShaolin
19th September 04, 01:46 PM
Very true, I was thinking that. The Americans are very good at what they do so we might be able to top his death toll in 1/8th of the time if we really get cooking down there.

MaverickZ
19th September 04, 01:46 PM
are we to assume that media coverage during Saddam's regime was the same as it is now?

wakinonioi
19th September 04, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by PeedeeShaolin


So who do you guys think has brought more carnage to Iraq and its people: the U.S. military or Saddam Hussein?

I personally have got to go with the U.S. because things have NEVER been this bad in Iraq as far as I can tell. Bombs going off, policemen dead, Americans AND Iraqis


You can tell nothing. You are a fucking idiot.

ICY
19th September 04, 04:42 PM
Yet another intelligent post from wacky :rolleyes:

I think Saddam was never a problem without America interfering. If Saddam had been allowed to do as he pleased Iraq would be powerful now...but balanced by Israel and their nukes, there's not a whole lot he could or would have done to stir up trouble.

However, if you're going to put down a dog because it bites people, you don't beat the shit out of it and stick it in a cage with no food forever, you actually shoot it, that's the humane thing to do. Iraq was stuck in a cage...that's no solution, sure it may be a painful process of recovery, and things may or may not go sour for the US, but it was a job that had to be done.

Phoenix
19th September 04, 04:44 PM
Unfortunately, the Iraqi people were born in the wrong place at the wrong time.

They were fucked, and will continue to be fucked, no matter who's calling the shots in that country.

ICY
19th September 04, 05:04 PM
Iraq has enough oil that if a decent government ever gets into power again, there's no reason they shouldn't have a similar standard of living to America, Canada, or western Europe.

Deadpan Scientist
19th September 04, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by wakinonioi
You can tell nothing. You are a fucking idiot.

correct

Jenfucius
19th September 04, 06:27 PM
the answer is: i certainly hope so!

wakinonioi
19th September 04, 06:39 PM
Originally posted by I Choke You


I think Saddam was never a problem without America interfering.


You think wrong.

ICY
19th September 04, 06:47 PM
I wish I could be satisfied with just saying "I'm right and you're wrong" without backing it up, or making any sort of point.

wakinonioi
19th September 04, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by I Choke You
I wish I could be satisfied with just saying "I'm right and you're wrong" without backing it up, or making any sort of point.

Unlike your rock solid "I think" comment. :rolleyes:

wakinonioi
19th September 04, 06:49 PM
Originally posted by I Choke You
I wish I could be satisfied with just saying "I'm right and you're wrong" without backing it up, or making any sort of point.


Would it make you feel any better to know that I work with Iraqi people everyday and that my view is one based on their impressions and those of their families?

kikkoman893
19th September 04, 07:01 PM
are you in iraq?

ICY
19th September 04, 07:02 PM
Unlike your rock solid "I think" comment.

Um, I stated an opinion as an OPINION, you stated an opinion as fact.


Would it make you feel any better to know that I work with Iraqi people everyday and that my view is one based on their impressions and those of their families?

It would, if I believed that, which I don't...is this like how you lived in China? You seem to claim a close personal connection to things and fall back on that as soon as it's convenient. If you want to debate the merits of any issue you should be able to explain your stance and have other sources that lend credence to it, not just claim a personal connection that is unprovable and would not really apply to the debate anyway even if it were.

Do the people you've talked to live outside Iraq?

Is it therefore likely they left Iraq because they did not want to live there?

Are they likely to have a negative opinion of the country, and/or the leadership in power when they left?

Would you deny that Iraq had good social infrastructure before the first Gulf War?

Would you deny that that infrastructure was largely destroyed by the bombings and sanctions imposed on Iraq?

wakinonioi
19th September 04, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by I Choke You

It would, if I believed that, which I don't...is this like how you lived in China?


--You don't believe me? That's fine. :rolleyes:


You seem to claim a close personal connection to things and fall back on that as soon as it's convenient. If you want to debate the merits of any issue you should be able to explain your stance and have other sources that lend credence to it, not just claim a personal connection that is unprovable and would not really apply to the debate anyway even if it were.


--You demand a justification for my position, then reject it. That's pretty reasonble.


Do the people you've talked to live outside Iraq?

--They do. Some of them have family living in the country.

Is it therefore likely they left Iraq because they did not want to live there?

--Some of them left because they were forced to sit in their own living room and watch their family members be executed by secret police. Some left because they got wind that they were on the list to be executed. Some left because they were lucky enough to get out for business or academic reasons.

Are they likely to have a negative opinion of the country, and/or the leadership in power when they left?

--See above.

Would you deny that Iraq had good social infrastructure before the first Gulf War?

--Social? Yes I deny that.

Would you deny that that infrastructure was largely destroyed by the bombings and sanctions imposed on Iraq?

--If you are talking about the physical infrastructure, it was destroyed as a result of the choices made by the former dictator of Iraq.

ICY
19th September 04, 08:52 PM
Social? Yes I deny that.

I mean public works...you can call it physical infrastructure if you like.


If you are talking about the physical infrastructure, it was destroyed as a result of the choices made by the former dictator of Iraq.

What choices? He could've backed down over Kuwait and didn't...that's the only choice I can think of that he made that would've prevented it, but America also could've backed down also...and I blame America since Iraq was told that America wouldn't interfere if Iraq invaded.

wakinonioi
19th September 04, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by I Choke You
I mean public works...you can call it physical infrastructure if you like.

.


Take more care with the terms you 'attempt' to use if you wish to be clear.

punchingdummy
19th September 04, 09:23 PM
Originally posted by I Choke You
I I blame America since Iraq was told that America wouldn't interfere if Iraq invaded.

Choke - you have made this claim several times, which I do not believe to be true. What is your source or sources?

wakinonioi
19th September 04, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by I Choke You

What choices? He could've backed down over Kuwait and didn't...that's the only choice I can think of that he made that would've prevented it, .


Then you need to do some more research on the subject.

ICY
19th September 04, 09:48 PM
Choke - you have made this claim several times, which I do not believe to be true. What is your source or sources?

I thought it was common knowledge...I've read it and seen it in documentaries many times, I will find a source for it, or deny it today, later.

ICY
19th September 04, 10:14 PM
Source: http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/09/11/1031608270446.html


After the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in 1990, a group backed by the Kuwait government-in-exile hired a US public relations firm to devise a campaign to win American support for the war. The high point was the use of the daughter of Kuwait's ambassador to the US as a star witness to a congressional hearing into the Iraq invasion. Under an assumed name, she said: "I saw Iraq soldiers come into the hospitals with guns, and go into a room where 15 babies were in incubators. They took the babies out of the incubators, took the incubators and left the babies on the cold floor to die." She later admitted she had lied.

But this lie, and others, worked.

So why did Saddam Hussein invade Kuwait? Before the invasion, the US ambassador to Iraq, April Glaspie, said the US would not interfere.




Saddam Hussein - If we could keep the whole of the Shatt al Arab - our strategic goal in our war with Iran - we will make concessions (to the Kuwaitis). But, if we are forced to choose between keeping half of the Shatt and the whole of Iraq (i.e., in Saddam s view, including Kuwait ) then we will give up all of the Shatt to defend our claims on Kuwait to keep the whole of Iraq in the shape we wish it to be. (pause) What is the United States' opinion on this?

U.S. Ambassador Glaspie - We have no opinion on your Arab - Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary (of State James) Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960's, that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America. (Saddam smiles)

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ARTICLE5/april.html

punchingdummy
19th September 04, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by I Choke You
I thought it was common knowledge...I've read it and seen it in documentaries many times, I will find a source for it, or deny it today, later.

It is possible that Saddam misinterpreted what the US response would be - which may have encouraged him - but I have seen nothing indicating the US green-lighted the invasion in any way. To the contrary, I have read about how US intel analysts were taken off guard and did not expect him to cross the border. they knew about troop concentrations, but thought of it as more of flexing muscle for negotiating leverage.

ICY
20th September 04, 05:46 AM
I think you missed my posts there.

Jo Vale Tudo
20th September 04, 08:01 AM
Well, lets look at what Saddam has done throughout his life and let the people decide for themselves who brought more chaos and death to Iraq.

Saddam Hussein

28 April 1937 Saddam Hussein was born in the village Al-Awja near Tikrit, Iraq, north of Baghdad. He was sent to live with his maternal uncle soon after he was born. During his early years, reports have linked Saddam to the murders of a school teacher and/or a cousin.

1955 Saddam moved to Baghdad.

1956 Saddam joined the Arab Baath Socialist Party.

1957 Saddam was denied the admission to the Baghdad Military Academy. He joins the underground Baath Socialist Party.

1958 Saddam married Sajida. He is arrested for killing his brother-in-law and spends six months in prison.

7 October 1959 Saddam was a member of a Baath assassination team which attempted to assassinate the Prime Minister of Iraq, Gen. Abdel-Karim Kassem. Shot in the leg by the prime minister's bodyguard, Saddam fled to Syria, then Egypt.

25 February 1960 After being tried in absentia, Saddam was sentenced to death.

1962 Saddam completed his secondary studies.

1962-1963 Saddam studied law in Cairo, but he did not complete it.

8 February 1963 Saddam returned to Iraq after the Ramadan Revolution.

November 1963 The new regime was ousted by a military coup.

14 October 1964 Saddam was arrested for charges accusing him of rebelling against the regime. He remained in prison until his escape in 1967.

September 1966 While in prison, Saddam was elected the Deputy Secretary General of the Baath Party Leadership.

1967 Saddam escaped from prison.

July 1968 Saddam participated in a coup in which Baathists and army officers overthrew the Iraqi regime.

1968 Saddam graduated from the College of Law.

30 July 1968 Saddam took charge of internal security after Baath Party consolidated its power and authority passed to the Revolutionary Command Council, led by Saddam's cousin, Ahmed Hassan al-Bakr.

9 November 1969 Saddam was elected the Vice-chairman of the Revolution Command Council.

1 June 1972 Saddam nationalized all of the oil companies in Iraq.

1 July 1973 Saddam was dubbed the rank of Lieutenant general and the Rafadain Order, First Class.

11 March 1974 Saddam helped to implement the Autonomy Law for Iraqi Kurdish Citizens. The Kurds were forced to go to Iran.

1 February 1976 Saddam was awarded M.A. Honors Degree in Military Sciences

late 1970s As Ahmed Hassan al-Bakr's health failed, Saddam emerged as the de facto leader of Iraq.

8 October 1977 Saddam was elected the Assistant Secretary General of the National Pan-Arab Leadership of the Baath Party.

1979 Ahmed Hassan al-Bakr negotiated with Syria to unify Iraq and Syria. Syrian President Hafez al-Assad would have become deputy leader of the new union, leaving Saddam's political future uncertain.

16 July 1979 Saddam forced Ahmed Hassan al-Bakr to resign and was elected as the President of Iraq and as the Chairman of Revolution Command Council.

17 July 1979 Saddam was promoted to the rank of Field Marshall.

22 July 1979 Saddam convened an assembly of Baath leaders. A list of potential opponents to Saddam was read. Those on the list were branded disloyal, removed from the assembly, and shot.

8 October 1979 Saddam was elected Deputy Secretary General of the Pan-Arab Leadership of the Baath party.

4 September 1980 Saddam initiated a war with Iran, seeking to obtain Iranian oil reserves.

1982 Former President Bakr died mysteriously. It was widely suspected that Saddam was involved.

30 July 1983 Saddam was dubbed the Revolution Order, First Class.

1984 Saddam was awarded an Honorary Doctorate in Law from the University of Baghdad.

1987-1988 Saddam launched the Anfal Campaign against the Kurds. 180,000 Kurds disappeared and 4,000 villages were destroyed.

28 April 1988 Saddam was dubbed the Order of the People.

28 March 1988 The Kurdish town, Halabaja, was gassed. 5,000 people were killed and 10,000 were injured.

8 August 1988 Saddam agreed to a cease-fire with Iran. Iraq won the conflict.

August 1988 Many Kurdish villages on the Turkish border were gassed. Thousands of people died.

2 August 1990 Saddam seized Kuwait.

16 January 1991 The United States began bombing Baghdad in response to Saddam not turning over Kuwait.

February 1991 The Persian Gulf War ended. President George Bush of the United States declared a cease-fire.

March 1991 Saddam's regime crushes a Kurdish revolt in northern Iraq and a Shiite revolt in the south.

1993 Saddam broke the peace terms from the end of the Persian Gulf War. The United States bombed Iraq as a result.

29 September 1998 The United States passed the Iraq Liberation Act. The Act stated that they wanted to remove Saddam Hussein from office and replace the government with a democratic institution.

October 1998 Saddam failed to comply with the united Nations weapons inspectors. This action led to a four-day bombing raid by the United States.

16-19 December 1998 The United Nations pulled their workers out of Iraq. The United States and the United Kingdom began air raids on Iraq called Operation Desert Fox.

1999 Throughout the year continual air strikes hit Iraq.

2000 It is reported that Saddam has used humanitarian funds to build presidential palaces and for other personal enrichment items.

2002 The United States began to initiate a plan to overthrow Saddam.

8 November 2002 UN Security Council resolution threatens "serious consequences" if Iraq refuses to disarm.

27 November 2002 Saddam allows the United Nations weapons inspectors to return to Iraq.

7 December 2002 Iraq delivers to the United Nations a declaration denying it has weapons of mass destruction.

January 2003 Other Arab leaders in the middle east request that Saddam Hussein go into exile to avoid war with the United States.

February 2003 Saddam Hussein interviewed with news reporter, Dan Rather. Saddam said that he would not go into exile and that he would not surrender in a possible war. He claimed that Iraq does not have any weapons that go against UN resolutions.

17 March 2003 United States President George W. Bush gave Saddam an ultimatum. Either he leave Iraq within 48 hours with his sons or the United States would pursue military action.

18 March 2003 Iraqi leadership rejects US ultimatum.

19 March 2003 The United States and other coalition forces started Operation Iraqi Freedom in an effort to remove Saddam Hussein and his regime from power.

24 March 2003 Saddam delivered a defiant speech on Iraqi television trying to rally his troops and unite his people in the war against the United States.

End of March 2003 Saddam Hussein made various television speeches that had been pre-recorded. Many analysts believed that they had been recorded before the war even started, because he did not reference any of the specific war activities.

4 April 2003 Saddam made a televised appearance and finally referenced specific details of the war. He called on the Iraqis to hit the coalition forces hard.

9 April 2003 Jubilant crowds greet US troops in Baghdad, then topple a large statue of Saddam.

7 May 2003 A tape thought to be Saddam Hussein was made public. It called on the Iraqi citizens to reject the visitors and to overthrow the Americans.

July 2003 US forces raid locations in Mosul and Tikrit, then report missing Saddam by "a matter of hours."

13 December 2003 Saddam is captured at 8:30 p.m. in Adwar, ten miles south of Tikrit, while hiding in a specially prepared "spider hole."

Shug
20th September 04, 11:32 AM
just to show not everything is cut and dry, and there is more then one part to a story;

http://www.iranchamber.com/history/...arming_iraq.php

A crisis always has a history, and the current crisis with Iraq is no exception. Below are some relevant dates.

September, 1980. Iraq invades Iran. The beginning of the Iraq-Iran war. [8]

February, 1982. Despite objections from congress, President Reagan removes Iraq from its list of known terrorist countries. [1]

December, 1982. Hughes Aircraft ships 60 Defender helicopters to Iraq. [9]

1982-1988. Defense Intelligence Agency provides detailed information for Iraq on Iranian deployments, tactical planning for battles, plans for air strikes and bomb damage assessments. [4]

November, 1983. A National Security Directive states that the U.S would do "whatever was necessary and legal" to prevent Iraq from losing its war with Iran. [1] & [15]

November, 1983. Banca Nazionale del Lavoro of Italy and its Branch in Atlanta begin to funnel $5 billion in unreported loans to Iraq. Iraq, with the blessing and official approval of the US government, purchased computer controlled machine tools, computers, scientific instruments, special alloy steel and aluminum, chemicals, and other industrial goods for Iraq's missile, chemical, biological and nuclear weapons programs. [14]

October, 1983. The Reagan Administration begins secretly allowing Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Egypt to transfer United States weapons, including Howitzers, Huey helicopters, and bombs to Iraq. These shipments violated the Arms Export Control Act. [16]

November 1983. George Schultz, the Secretary of State, is given intelligence reports showing that Iraqi troops are daily using chemical weapons against the Iranians. [1]


Donald Rumsfeld -Reagan's Envoy- provided Iraq with
chemical & biological weapons
December 20, 1983. Donald Rumsfeld , then a civilian and now Defense Secretary, meets with Saddam Hussein to assure him of US friendship and materials support. [1] & [15]

July, 1984. CIA begins giving Iraq intelligence necessary to calibrate its mustard gas attacks on Iranian troops. [19]

January 14, 1984. State Department memo acknowledges United States shipment of "dual-use" export hardware and technology. Dual use items are civilian items such as heavy trucks, armored ambulances and communications gear as well as industrial technology that can have a military application. [2]

March, 1986. The United States with Great Britain block all Security Council resolutions condemning Iraq's use of chemical weapons, and on March 21 the US becomes the only country refusing to sign a Security Council statement condemning Iraq's use of these weapons. [10]

May, 1986. The US Department of Commerce licenses 70 biological exports to Iraq between May of 1985 and 1989, including at least 21 batches of lethal strains of anthrax. [3]

May, 1986. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of weapons grade botulin poison to Iraq. [7]

March, 1987. President Reagan bows to the findings of the Tower Commission admitting the sale of arms to Iran in exchange for hostages. Oliver North uses the profits from the sale to fund an illegal war in Nicaragua. [17]

Late 1987. The Iraqi Air Force begins using chemical agents against Kurdish resistance forces in northern Iraq. [1]

February, 1988. Saddam Hussein begins the "Anfal" campaign against the Kurds of northern Iraq. The Iraq regime used chemical weapons against the Kurds killing over 100,000 civilians and destroying over 1,200 Kurdish villages. [8]

April, 1988. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of chemicals used in manufacture of mustard gas. [7]

August, 1988. Four major battles were fought from April to August 1988, in which the Iraqis massively and effectively used chemical weapons to defeat the Iranians. Nerve gas and blister agents such as mustard gas are used. By this time the US Defense Intelligence Agency is heavily involved with Saddam Hussein in battle plan assistance, intelligence gathering and post battle debriefing. In the last major battle with of the war, 65,000 Iranians are killed, many with poison gas. Use of chemical weapons in war is in violation of the Geneva accords of 1925. [6] & [13]

August, 1988. Iraq and Iran declare a cease fire. [8]

August, 1988. Five days after the cease fire Saddam Hussein sends his planes and helicopters to northern Iraq to begin massive chemical attacks against the Kurds. [8]

September, 1988. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of weapons grade anthrax and botulinum to Iraq. [7]

September, 1988. Richard Murphy, Assistant Secretary of State: "The US-Iraqi relationship is... important to our long-term political and economic objectives." [15]

December, 1988. Dow chemical sells $1.5 million in pesticides to Iraq despite knowledge that these would be used in chemical weapons. [1]

July 25, 1990. US Ambassador to Baghdad meets with Hussein to assure him that President Bush "wanted better and deeper relations". Many believe this visit was a trap set for Hussein. A month later Hussein invaded Kuwait thinking the US would not respond. [12]

August, 1990 Iraq invades Kuwait. The precursor to the Gulf War. [8]

July, 1991 The Financial Times of London reveals that a Florida chemical company had produced and shipped cyanide to Iraq during the 80's using a special CIA courier. Cyanide was used extensively against the Iranians. [11]

August, 1991. Christopher Droguol of Atlanta's branch of Banca Nazionale del Lavoro is arrested for his role in supplying loans to Iraq for the purchase of military supplies. He is charged with 347 counts of felony. Droguol is found guilty, but US officials plead innocent of any knowledge of his crime. [14]

June, 1992. Ted Kopple of ABC Nightline reports: "It is becoming increasingly clear that George Bush Sr., operating largely behind the scenes throughout the 1980's, initiated and supported much of the financing, intelligence, and military help that built Saddam's Iraq into [an aggressive power]." [5]

July, 1992. "The Bush administration deliberately, not inadvertently, helped to arm Iraq by allowing U.S. technology to be shipped to Iraqi military and to Iraqi defense factories... Throughout the course of the Bush administration, U.S. and foreign firms were granted export licenses to ship U.S. technology directly to Iraqi weapons facilities despite ample evidence showing that these factories were producing weapons." Representative Henry Gonzalez, Texas, testimony before the House. [18]

February, 1994. Senator Riegle from Michigan, chairman of the Senate Banking Committee, testifies before the senate revealing large US shipments of dual-use biological and chemical agents to Iraq that may have been used against US troops in the Gulf War and probably was the cause of the illness known as Gulf War Syndrome. [7]

August, 2002. "The use of gas [during the Iran-Iraq war] on the battle field by the Iraqis was not a matter of deep strategic concern... We were desperate to make sure that Iraq did not lose". Colonel Walter Lang, former senior US Defense Intelligence officer tells the New York Times. [4]

This chronology of the United States' sordid involvement in the arming of Iraq can be summarized in this way: The United States used methods both legal and illegal to help build Saddam's army into the most powerful army in the Mideast outside of Israel. The US supplied chemical and biological agents and technology to Iraq when it knew Iraq was using chemical weapons against the Iranians. The US supplied the materials and technology for these weapons of mass destruction to Iraq at a time when it was know that Saddam was using this technology to kill his Kurdish citizens. The United States supplied intelligence and battle planning information to Iraq when those battle plans included the use of cyanide, mustard gas and nerve agents. The United States blocked UN censure of Iraq's use of chemical weapons. The United States did not act alone in this effort. The Soviet Union was the largest weapons supplier, but England, France and Germany were also involved in the shipment of arms and technology.




References:
Washingtonpost.com. December 30, 2002
Jonathan Broder. Nuclear times, Winter 1990-91
Kurt Nimno. AlterNet. September 23, 2002
Newyorktimes.com. August 29, 2002
ABC Nightline. June9, 1992
Counter Punch, October 10, 2002
Riegle Report: Dual Use Exports. Senate Committee on Banking. May 25, 1994
Timeline: A walk Through Iraq's History. U.S. Department of State
Doing Business: The Arming of Iraq. Daniel Robichear
Glen Rangwala. Labor Left Briefing, 16 September, 2002
Financial Times of London. July 3, 1991
Elson E. Boles. Counter Punch. October 10, 2002
Iran-Iraq War, 1980-1988. Iranchamber.com
Columbia Journalism Review. March/April 1993. Iraqgate
Times Online. December 31, 2002. How U.S. Helped Iraq Build Deadly Arsenal
Bush's Secret Mission. The New Yorker Magazine. November 2, 1992
Grolier Multimedia Encyclopedia: Iran-Contra Affair
Congressional Record. July 27, 1992. Representative Henry B. Gonzalez
Bob Woodward. CIA Aiding Iraq in Gulf War. Washington Post. 15 December, 1986
Case Study: The Anfal Campaign. www.gendercide.com

I'de post the other link but eh, its where everyone can see it

PeedeeShaolin
20th September 04, 12:23 PM
You can tell nothing. You are a fucking idiot.

Ooooh, look who was told he was a man by his mommy and actually believes it!

Do us all a favor and keep your mouth shut ok? You've been pegged for an idiot from the moment you posted on ANY topic yet you continue to babble and make a fool of yourself. Nice posts though, very in-depth LMAO! Did you even DELETE the post that Choke was quoting from because it was so stupid you didn't want anyone to see it?

Take a good look in the mirror and keep telling yourself that you're a man.

Brand's now patented one sentence responses with no informational backup seem to be nipping at your heels.

Do you two fuck?

Balloonknot
20th September 04, 02:05 PM
PeeDee, you really should go into comedy mun. You is the funny shiznizzle!!!

wakinonioi
20th September 04, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by PeedeeShaolin
Ooooh, look who was told he was a man by his mommy and actually believes it!

Do us all a favor and keep your mouth shut ok? You've been pegged for an idiot from the moment you posted on ANY topic yet you continue to babble and make a fool of yourself. Nice posts though, very in-depth LMAO! Did you even DELETE the post that Choke was quoting from because it was so stupid you didn't want anyone to see it?

Take a good look in the mirror and keep telling yourself that you're a man.




Wow. How dramatic. Good job.

You're still a fucking idiot.

ICY
21st September 04, 12:16 AM
Wacky, you calling anyone an idiot, and meaning it as an insult, is a little odd, it's like a homo calling someone a faggot.

wakinonioi
21st September 04, 05:08 AM
That's funny...no, really