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View Full Version : Russia Ready to wage a war on Terror



SRK85
8th September 04, 04:45 PM
http://cnn.aimtoday.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?flok=FF-RTO-roitz&idq=/ff/story/0002%2F20040908%2F0627683863.htm&sc=roitz&photoid=20040906BES23D&floc=NW_1-T

They said they are ready to attack terrorist bases across the World. Sounds good they really need to crack down on Muslim millitants.

PeedeeShaolin
8th September 04, 04:47 PM
The entire reason for this confilct is an oil pipeline.

Here in America we think its the BEST when a country desires FREEDOM and wants INDEPENDENCE.

Oil however is far more important than freedom or casualties due to conflict.

Vladdy Poo now has a blank check to continue to oppression of the Chechens.

SRK85
8th September 04, 04:57 PM
Wait are referring to how the US supported chechen rebels?

joen00b
8th September 04, 05:46 PM
Read and learn (http://www.exile.ru/2004-August-19/war_nerd.html). The US is not nearly squeaky clean and we are actually funding terrorists of our own.

Rigante
8th September 04, 05:55 PM
Its payback time for the slaughter of all those kids. Thats the problem with terrorist attacks, they are hard to control to have only a measured outcome. Just like 911 Bin Laden went to far, so did the extremists here. I expect a rather strong response from Putin or presidency is toast. Its called natural consequences!

Gelid Light
8th September 04, 06:38 PM
My word, are you people so ignorant? The Russian state, imperial then communist then "democratic" has been slaughtering Chechens for over two hundred years. Just a few days ago I learned from a Russia scholar that at a recent point the population of Chechnya was lower than it was in the late 1700's. Of course, that's if you only count Chechens. The Russian population of Checnya is much higher.

A handful of Chechen terrorists commit some murders and you're ready to slaughter the entire nation. "The Chechens" did this, "the Chechens" did that. That's beyond absurd. But I forget myself, of course ITAR-TASS and the dispatches of the Russian government are beyond question.

punchingdummy
8th September 04, 07:04 PM
Mass murdering children has a way of overshadowing history...

SRK85
8th September 04, 07:12 PM
^^Excaltly killing chidlren is uncalled for. But hell the Russians did it, we did it. Are we terrorists?

Shuma-Gorath
8th September 04, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by Rigante
Its payback time for the slaughter of all those kids. Thats the problem with terrorist attacks, they are hard to control to have only a measured outcome. Just like 911 Bin Laden went to far, so did the extremists here. I expect a rather strong response from Putin or presidency is toast. Its called natural consequences!

I don't think 9/11 was meant to be anything less than what it was. But your point still stands; holding a school hostage and denying the captives even water before blowing them up does not really put a positive spin on your cause.

Gelid Light
8th September 04, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by punchingdummy
Mass murdering children has a way of overshadowing history...

So you're saying this crime overshadows the near-genocide of Chechens by the many incarnations of the Russian state? And that this gives Russians license to wage a reprisal campaign against an entire people?

SRK85
8th September 04, 07:53 PM
Originally posted by Gelid Light
So you're saying this crime overshadows the near-genocide of Chechens by the many incarnations of the Russian state? And that this gives Russians license to wage a reprisal campaign against an entire people?

Lol did anyone read my post. The Russians too kill people but not on purpose. We also kill people. Its war many innocent people die. But when you storm a school and kill innocent people for revenge is just sick. The Russians killed many Chechens so they are too blame. What about in Israel when Israelis kill innocent Palenstians but somehow the Israelis are seen as the good guy? Russia I guess started it so therefore why dont they reach a peace deal. If the Chechens stll attack Russia after a peace deal then the Russians can come in full force and retake Chechenya and make it a client state.

punchingdummy
8th September 04, 08:00 PM
Originally posted by Gelid Light
So you're saying this crime overshadows the near-genocide of Chechens by the many incarnations of the Russian state? And that this gives Russians license to wage a reprisal campaign against an entire people?

Yes to the first question. No to the second.

It, IMHO, does sway the majority of popular opinion against their cause and is, therefore, counterproductive.

Rigante
8th September 04, 10:45 PM
In the video of Bin Laden talking about 911 he didnt expect that much damage to occur. He didnt expect the buildings to crumble. He was happy about it then, but then he probably thought Bush was a wimp like Clinton. I wonder how he likes hiding in a cave now.

Gelid Light
8th September 04, 10:59 PM
Originally posted by Gelid Light
So you're saying this crime overshadows the near-genocide of Chechens by the many incarnations of the Russian state? And that this gives Russians license to wage a reprisal campaign against an entire people?



Originally posted by punchingdummy
Yes to the first question. No to the second.

It, IMHO, does sway the majority of popular opinion against their cause and is, therefore, counterproductive.

So, because Americans are not aware of what has been done to the Chechens, this recent mass murder overshadows the importance of what happened to them? In other words, our ignorance is Russia's bliss?

As to the second question, as it appears to have escaped your notice, such a campaign is already being waged, and it is already over a hundred years old, and the Chechnyan body count far, far exceeds the Russian. And all the Chechens will pay for this, as you and your buddies have already declared that extending any deserved political autonomy to Chechnya is "appeasement".

So Americans decide that justice for Chechya means that all of her people will pay for the crimes of a few. It's more fake elections for you Chechens. Sorry, but "you" are killing children. We can't just apprehend those responsible and bring them to justice; we have to make sure you are all ground beneath our heel.

Article covering the recent presidential elections in the republic of Chechnya:

http://www.mosnews.com/news/2004/08/30/elections.shtml

Osiris
8th September 04, 11:03 PM
The Russians too kill people but not on purpose.

Right...

Rigante
8th September 04, 11:04 PM
Anyone is stupid if they think they can gain the moral and political upper hand by killing children. I dont doubt the Russians have committed lots of attrocities and I dont condone it, but it is stupid to do it in front of the world.

Frankly I think this was morally worse than 911 because the primary target was a school building full of kids, wheresas 911 was a business building full of adults.

Osiris
8th September 04, 11:10 PM
Anyone is stupid if they think they can gain the moral and political upper hand by killing children.

Do you REALLY think that that was the point?


Frankly I think this was morally worse than 911 because the primary target was a school building full of kids, wheresas 911 was a business building full of adults.

No, you don't think. They took down four planes as well. The only moral distinction that could be argued is that the WTC is a legit target.

Phoenix
9th September 04, 12:23 AM
Originally posted by PeedeeShaolin
The entire reason for this confilct is an oil pipeline.

Here in America we think its the BEST when a country desires FREEDOM and wants INDEPENDENCE.

Oil however is far more important than freedom or casualties due to conflict.

Vladdy Poo now has a blank check to continue to oppression of the Chechens.

Be that as it may....I don't disagree with you here, Peedee, but those Muslim terrorist groups really need an attitude adjustment.

However, the task of doing so is not incumbent SOLELY upon the USA, the former USSR or any other one nation.

The responsibility of making our world a safe one lies on ALL of us.

punchingdummy
9th September 04, 05:27 AM
Originally posted by Gelid Light
It, IMHO, does sway the majority of popular opinion against their cause and is, therefore, counterproductive.

So, because Americans are not aware of what has been done to the Chechens, this recent mass murder overshadows the importance of what happened to them? In other words, our ignorance is Russia's bliss?

As to the second question, as it appears to have escaped your notice, such a campaign is already being waged, and it is already over a hundred years old, and the Chechnyan body count far, far exceeds the Russian. And all the Chechens will pay for this, as you and your buddies have already declared that extending any deserved political autonomy to Chechnya is "appeasement".

So Americans decide that justice for Chechya means that all of her people will pay for the crimes of a few. It's more fake elections for you Chechens. Sorry, but "you" are killing children. We can't just apprehend those responsible and bring them to justice; we have to make sure you are all ground beneath our heel.

Article covering the recent presidential elections in the republic of Chechnya:

http://www.mosnews.com/news/2004/08/30/elections.shtml [/QUOTE]


"Overshadow" is not a moral or qualitiative statement. The bottom line is that when a combatant intentionally mass murders children (to the exclusion of military or economic targets) you lose in the court of public opinion. People become less sympathetic to the larger issues or struggle.

On the second issue, you make an arrogant comment about what I have or have not noticed followed by a few paragraphs of irrelevant prose. The term "license" usually refers to some legal right or benefit...and this event does not give the Russians a legal right to attack "an entire people". Whether they do or do not is a different issue.

Rigante
9th September 04, 09:17 AM
Very simply terrorism requires the political will to be changed in order to meet its goals. When a terrorist group goes overboard its defeats its own goals.

DJeter1234
9th September 04, 10:09 AM
i don't see anyone advocating attacking Chechnya, just mulsim extremist. Geldid, who are you even arguing against?

SRK85
9th September 04, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by Osiris
Right...

My bad I meant kids. Russia doesnty come into Chehcnya and kill all the kids they can.

punchingdummy
18th September 04, 06:20 PM
The most interesting part of this story is that "the suspect later died from a heart attack in hospital after questioning". Right! If that happened in the US, you can just imagine the uproar!!!




Moscow police intercept car with explosives
Suspect said he was paid take vehicle to major thoroughfare

Reuters
Updated: 12:03 p.m. ET Sept. 18, 2004


MOSCOW - Police intercepted a car packed with explosives in central Moscow on Saturday and said they had thwarted a terrorist attack, Russian media reported.

A suspect arrested at the scene told investigators he was being paid $1,000 to take the car to a major thoroughfare used by President Vladimir Putin to travel to and from the Kremlin, news agencies and television said, quoting the security forces.

The suspect later died from a heart attack in hospital after questioning, Interfax news agency quoted officials as saying.

Some reports suggested the planned attack might have targeted a museum on the road where Moscow Mayor Yuri Luzhkov had invited mayors from other major cities at the weekend.

The incident was prominently reported on television newscasts following a string of attacks by Chechen rebels in recent weeks.

These have included a school siege in southern Russia during which more than 320 hostages died, and near-simultaneous twin plane crashes that killed 90 people.

Copyright 2004 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters.
URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6037063/

Osiris
18th September 04, 08:50 PM
A heart attack? Really? LMAO

punchingdummy
18th September 04, 09:10 PM
heart attack = electrocution and/or OD as lead poisoning = GSW

LLL
18th September 04, 09:25 PM
OK, a point of view from quite near the actual thing;

1. It was and is 100% fucking wrong to attack children as a part of any kind of fight/terrrorism/whatever.

2. The Russians' actions in Chechenya are not acceptable either; the whole terrorism is mostly Putin & pals' fault.

3. The Russian commandos should not have attacked the school in the 1st place; Putin claimed he'd do anything to get the kids safely home. He sure as fucking hell did not, and probably didn't even try, or even think about it in the first place, regardless of what he said in public broadcasts...

Phoenix
18th September 04, 11:04 PM
Originally posted by LLL
3. The Russian commandos should not have attacked the school in the 1st place; Putin claimed he'd do anything to get the kids safely home. He sure as fucking hell did not, and probably didn't even try, or even think about it in the first place, regardless of what he said in public broadcasts...

Waitaminute....that's not the way I heard it.

I heard a bomb in the school gym was detonated first, which killed several people. Frightened, some of the hostages started to flee. The terrorists started shooting the fleeing hostages.

That's when Putin sent in the cavalry and all hell broke loose.

Is that not what happened?

SRK85
18th September 04, 11:09 PM
Originally posted by Phoenix
Waitaminute....that's not the way I heard it.

I heard a bomb in the school gym was detonated first, which killed several people. Frightened, some of the hostages started to flee. The terrorists started shooting the fleeing hostages.

That's when Putin sent in the cavalry and all hell broke loose.

Is that not what happened?

Thats what happened.

Phoenix
18th September 04, 11:21 PM
Then LLL is out to LLLunch.

The terrorists forced Putin's hand. He had no choice but to send his troops in.

LLL
18th September 04, 11:25 PM
Originally posted by Phoenix
Waitaminute....that's not the way I heard it.

I heard a bomb in the school gym was detonated first, which killed several people. Frightened, some of the hostages started to flee. The terrorists started shooting the fleeing hostages.

That's when Putin sent in the cavalry and all hell broke loose.

Is that not what happened?

What actually happened is VERY unclear & impossible to know. But at least some newscasts said that it was the Russian commandos who blew up the wall FIRST to attack the terrorists. & after that it got fucked up.

But like I said, it isn't possible to know what really happened; I personally just wouldn't trust the official Russian info any more than Al-Jazeera or FoxTV...

punchingdummy
19th September 04, 07:09 AM
Originally posted by LLL
What actually happened is VERY unclear & impossible to know. But at least some newscasts said that it was the Russian commandos who blew up the wall FIRST to attack the terrorists. & after that it got fucked up.

But like I said, it isn't possible to know what really happened; I personally just wouldn't trust the official Russian info any more than Al-Jazeera or FoxTV...

My sources tell me that something went wrong with the unarmed "rescuers" who were allowed to go in to retreive dead bodies, which resulted in some hostile action by the terrorists, at which time the locals started firing, and THEN the government troops were unleashed. The entry wall they blew was not until sometime after chaos had broken lose as the were still rehearsing and were not prepared to go in at that moment.