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View Full Version : Women involved in sexual abuse of Iraqi Prisoners.



KillerInstinct
4th May 04, 07:49 PM
This is somewhat of a bizarre twist here. I think it is the first time that we know of that women have partaken in acts of sodomy and sexual abuse of men. It was also somewhat expected though. I mean, in this country we routinely abuse, and humiliate male prisoners by forcing them to strip for female guards, to defecate, urinate, shower infront of female guards-as sanctioned by our own supreme court (it is the law). This, however, goes beyond that to women committing actual acts of sexual abuse.

In one picture, a group of Iraqi soldiers were stacked naked on top of each other with their knees tucked up against their chests and spread in a simulated group "hump". There was a male soldier standing behind them while a smiling female soldier was crouched behind them doing something to the backside of the top "spread" soldier.

In another, a female prisoner gives the "thumbs up" while touching a hooded, spread eagle, naked soldier. Link is below.

From 60 Minutes II:

**It was American soldiers serving as military police at Abu Ghraib who took these pictures. The investigation started when one soldier got them from a friend, and gave them to his commanders. 60 Minutes II has a dozen of these pictures, and there are many more pictures that show Americans, men and women in military uniforms, posing with naked Iraqi prisoners.

There are shots of the prisoners stacked in a pyramid, one with a slur written on his skin in English.

In some, the male prisoners are positioned to simulate sex with each other. And in most of the pictures, the Americans are laughing, posing, pointing, or giving the camera a thumbs-up.**

Link for another site:

http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/iraqis_tortured


I am wondering if NOW, or the other feminist organizations will be as quick to act on this as they were when they found out about the abuse of Iraqi females in the last war.

How offended, outraged would we be if these were stacks of American female soldiers being abused by Iraqi men?

Interesting twist.

Deadpan Scientist
4th May 04, 07:51 PM
This is not the first case of women sexually abusing men...

WhiteShark
4th May 04, 10:15 PM
Also that whole thing is being blown out of proportion because it's an election year. Really look at the individual acts in an objective manner. All of it was sophmoric and very little of it was dangerous or physically abusive. It's about the level of freshman fraternity hazing.

The Wastrel
4th May 04, 10:25 PM
White Shark, read the Pentagon's report. The Iraqis were forced to masturbate, simulate sex on one another, and a female detainee was raped by an American soldier.

WingChun Lawyer
4th May 04, 10:28 PM
"All of it was sophmoric and very little of it was dangerous or physically abusive. It's about the level of freshman fraternity hazing."

Read my thread, specially punchingdummy's posts. It seems they would sodomize prisoners (sometimes with objects), beat them, humilliate them by forcing them to remain naked for days, and let trained dogs attack them.

The situation in Iraq is very delicate, elections or not. This sort of abuse should not be tolerated in any circunstances, but those soldiers' "freshman fraternity hazing" took (or is taking) place over a powder keg: whether ir will blow up in Bush's or Kerry's face is another question.

WhiteShark
4th May 04, 10:32 PM
With the exception of the rape and dog attack it is still being blown out of proportion compared to what has historically been done to POWs

The Wastrel
4th May 04, 10:34 PM
Oh really? How so?

WhiteShark
4th May 04, 10:39 PM
Uh the lack of Physical torture? Being marched around naked with a hood on and forced to pose in dumb positions is not deep scaring torture or physically debilitating. It's probably not a great Idea but I still don't think it's as bad as many people are making it out to be.

The Wastrel
4th May 04, 10:45 PM
How is it being "overblown"? Has anyone said this is "worse than" *BLANK POW INCIDENT*?

The Wastrel
4th May 04, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by WhiteShark
Uh the lack of Physical torture?

Lack of physical torture? What about being sodomized with sticks and chem-lites?

WhiteShark
4th May 04, 10:48 PM
Originally posted by The Wastrel
How is it being "overblown"? Has anyone said this is "worse than" *BLANK POW INCIDENT*?

No you're right the media is dealing with it very well they have a great resoned perspective on the entire situation. Oh please! I hope you are talking about this forum and not the media reaction in general.

Nihilanthic
4th May 04, 10:49 PM
This shit happens there anyway... but nobody speaks up until the USA does it.

Am I saying its okay? HELL NO, I'm super angry about it happening to kids in the USA and Canada (see my big flamewar thread in off topic) so of course I hate this period.... but why wait until a US soldier does it to speak up?

Everyone knows full and damn well this is going on constantly in the middle east. *sigh* I guess its easier to speak up if its in another nation. I'm still amazed at how lukewarm the responce is to this happening to our own kids on a large scale. But by golly, we won't do it to Iraqis!

WhiteShark
4th May 04, 10:49 PM
Originally posted by The Wastrel
Lack of physical torture? What about being sodomized with sticks and chem-lites?

I'm going by the pictures and the direct reports. I still haven't found a report of this I seriously would appreciate a link. The closest I could find is an accusation of an Iraqi translator doing it.

WingChun Lawyer
4th May 04, 10:50 PM
"With the exception of the rape and dog attack it is still being blown out of proportion compared to what has historically been done to POWs"

Rape, dog attack, and electrical wires attached to the genitals. Other than that, things are not too bad, as far as we know.

AS FAR AS WE KNOW.

Frankly, I prefer to wait for more facts, but the incident as it is is bad enough.

The Wastrel
4th May 04, 10:50 PM
Would you care to characterize how this is being "overblown"? Is it receiving too much coverage? I think it's hard to exaggerate the effects of this incident on American efforts in the region when people in the Pentagon are currently referring to the soldiers as "the six who lost the war".

WhiteShark
4th May 04, 10:55 PM
This is why I never post in Off-topic I am just too apathetic to have a research battle over anything. Beside the more I look into the more abuses they are finding versus the original fairly lame photos. I concede the point Americans are all horrible monsters.

WingChun Lawyer
4th May 04, 10:58 PM
"I think it's hard to exaggerate the effects of this incident on American efforts in the region when people in the Pentagon are currently referring to the soldiers as "the six who lost the war"."

Do you have a link for that information? I would be interested, thanks.

And BTW, killerinstinct is Strangler, in case someone did not notice.

The Wastrel
4th May 04, 11:13 PM
White Shark,

Excerpts from the Pentagon report:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/iraq/la-fg-excerpts3may03,1,1214483.story?coll=la-home-headlines

The Wastrel
4th May 04, 11:14 PM
Originally posted by WhiteShark
This is why I never post in Off-topic I am just too apathetic to have a research battle over anything. Beside the more I look into the more abuses they are finding versus the original fairly lame photos. I concede the point Americans are all horrible monsters.

Calm the heck down WS. I was in the army. Many close friends of mine are army interrogators. Why would I say they are all monsters?

The point of being outraged is that we are NOT all monsters.

The Wastrel
4th May 04, 11:19 PM
WingChunLawyer:

http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/sept11/dailyUpdate.html

patfromlogan
4th May 04, 11:39 PM
"No more torture chambers and rape rooms. The tyrant will soon be gone."
President Geo. W. Bush

"The ultimate cost of a foreign policy based on blatant lies, and that equates military might with what is right, is that the brute in all of us will not inevitably lie dormant."

Robert Scheer, LA Times

KillerInstinct
5th May 04, 12:10 AM
Originally posted by Nihilanthic
This shit happens there anyway... but nobody speaks up until the USA does it.

Am I saying its okay? HELL NO, I'm super angry about it happening to kids in the USA and Canada (see my big flamewar thread in off topic) so of course I hate this period.... but why wait until a US soldier does it to speak up?

Everyone knows full and damn well this is going on constantly in the middle east. *sigh* I guess its easier to speak up if its in another nation. I'm still amazed at how lukewarm the responce is to this happening to our own kids on a large scale. But by golly, we won't do it to Iraqis!

wtf r u talking about? Wasn't that the reason Bush went to war because of mistreatment and inhumanity of Saddam? Or was it because of weapons of mass destruction?

Stick
5th May 04, 03:01 AM
"The Six Who Lost the War"...... Damn, talk about your disshonorable discharges. Wonder how long it'll be before the media latches onto that little phrase, assuming they haven't already (I'm in Japan, not getting that much attention).

KI, Nihilanthic is, at least in part, talking about his thread about hardcore rehab centers for wayward teenagers that essentially amount to uncontrolled prisons where mental torture is the norm and physical torture has a habbit of cropping up too.

Nasty shit.

WingChun Lawyer
5th May 04, 10:33 AM
Thanks Wastrel.

Meteora
5th May 04, 10:59 AM
Originally posted by WingChun Lawyer


And BTW, killerinstinct is Strangler, in case someone did not notice.


sadly we do...

HAPKO3
5th May 04, 12:35 PM
Shit like that is absolutely inexcusable. Under any conditions. Anyone who participates or closes the eyes on others participating needs to go to jail.

This is exactly why I don't have any faith in humanity. We humans are, overall, fucking bastars.

Meteora
5th May 04, 03:07 PM
I've always wondered if one day if Karma went into super-mode and just killed all the good for nothing bastards in one swoop of deadly sickness how much would be left of any of the population.

liuzg150181
6th May 04, 01:25 AM
Originally posted by HAPKO3


This is exactly why I don't have any faith in humanity. We humans are, overall, fucking bastars.
Agreed, though what appalls me is that now women enjoys sexually abusing men,what's next?

DJeter1234
6th May 04, 01:45 AM
"I've always wondered if one day if Karma went into super-mode and just killed all the good for nothing bastards in one swoop of deadly sickness how much would be left of any of the population."

karma=bagage from pasts lives
dharma=the rules of the universe that keep equalibrium

if kharma caught up with us we'd all be stillborn or something.

TheGodDamnMan
6th May 04, 09:41 AM
This is a fairly interesting topic. Would this seem even worse if the prisoners were women?

WingChun Lawyer
6th May 04, 10:07 AM
Originally posted by TheGodDamnMan
This is a fairly interesting topic. Would this seem even worse if the prisoners were women?

I believe there was a female prisoner who was raped.

Ronin
6th May 04, 10:11 AM
War brings out the best AND worst in some people, women are no exception.

liuzg150181
6th May 04, 10:11 AM
ronin69..........You are back~~~!!!

Ronin
6th May 04, 10:19 AM
Just like a bad case of herpes ;)

SLJ
6th May 04, 10:22 AM
Genital ?

Ronin
6th May 04, 10:26 AM
Whatever floats your boat.

liuzg150181
6th May 04, 10:34 AM
*tears rolling down the eyes*

SLJ
6th May 04, 10:45 AM
Ah, you've got it too.

liuzg150181
6th May 04, 10:57 AM
Ouch