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DANINJA
30th April 04, 06:23 PM
UK troops in Iraqi torture probe

The Ministry of Defence has launched an investigation into allegations that British soldiers have been pictured torturing an Iraqi prisoner.
The photographs, obtained by the Daily Mirror newspaper, show a suspected thief being beaten and urinated on.

The UK's most senior soldier, General Sir Mike Jackson, said if guilty, the men were not fit to wear the uniform.

This follows revulsion expressed across the world by pictures of Iraqi prisoners being abused by US troops.

One of the images of abuse of Iraqi prisoners by US soldiers shows a hooded and naked prisoner standing on a box with wires attached to his genitals.

As the graphic pictures were beamed across the world, US President George W Bush vowed that those responsible would be "taken care of".
I shared a deep disgust that those prisoners were treated the way they were treated. I didn't like it one bit," he said.

The people who are alleged to have carried out the abuse "do not reflect the nature of men and women we sent overseas", Mr Bush added.

Tony Blair's official spokesman said the way naked prisoners were tormented by troops directly contravened all the US-led coalition's policy.

Hours later, Downing Street condemned the latest pictures and a spokesman said: "We expect the highest standards of conduct from our forces in Iraq despite the difficulties they face."

Defence Minister Adam Ingram told the Mirror the behaviour was "clearly unacceptable.

He added: "We have, of course, launched an immediate investigation."

BBC defence correspondent Paul Adams said the MoD was in a "tailspin" over the news, which threatened the British mission to win Iraqi "hearts and minds".

The Mirror says the pictures were handed over by British soldiers who claimed a rogue element in the British army was responsible for abusing prisoners and civilians.

Speaking on condition of anonymity, the soldiers from the Queen's Lancashire Regiment told the paper no charges were brought against the unnamed captive.

They allege during his 8-hour ordeal he was threatened with execution, his jaw broken and his teeth smashed.

'Losing war'

After being beaten and urinated on, he was driven away and dumped from the back of a moving vehicle, the soldiers claimed.

They added they did not know whether he survived.

The reason for making the photos public was, they said, to show why the US-UK coalition was encountering such fierce resistance in Iraq.
One told the paper: "We are not helping ourselves out there. We are never going to get them on our side. We are fighting a losing war."

In a press conference, Sir Michael Jackson, Chief of the General Staff, said: "If proven, not only is such appalling conduct clearly unlawful but also contravenes the British Army's high standards of conduct.

"The allegations are already under investigation.

"Again, if proven, the perpetrators are not fit to wear the Queen's uniform and they have besmirched the Army's good name and conduct."

But he said the Army should not be judged on the behaviour of a few soldiers who had let down the good work of tens of thousands of others.

Ahmed al-Sheik, editor-in-chief of Arab TV news channel, said the photographs would outrage Arabs around the world.

"These scenes are humiliating not only to the Iraqis, but to every Arab citizen around the world," he told BBC Two's Newsnight.

Liberal Democrat defence spokesman Paul Keetch called on Defence Secretary Geoff Hoon to come to the Commons to make a statement on the allegations.

And Donald Anderson, the Labour chairman of the House of Commons Foreign Affairs Select Committee, said the pictures could hit the Army's morale.

LOVED2BLOVED
1st May 04, 08:45 AM
This is fucked up.

Beneath Contempt
1st May 04, 09:43 AM
Our soldiers used a PROBE?!?

SamHarber
1st May 04, 06:19 PM
Wow... some of our soldiers are a bunch of cunts who still need to shave their knuckles. That surprises me no end.
I've known a few servicemen, amongst them one was a para involved in Aden and Bloody Sunday, one a sniper who served in Cypress and NI, and a couple of squaddies who were in Kosovo and NI.
They've ranged from arseholes to guys who are the salt of the earth.

mainly I'm concerned at the stupidity of soldiers who thought it was a good idea to be photographed doing these things.

punchingdummy
1st May 04, 08:08 PM
I saw the photos from the British troopers tonight and they were every bit as bad as what the US troops did. Urinating on an EPW (and taking pictures of it)?!?! The UK general who spoke on the issue seemed sincere and I hope they drop the hammer on these scumbags who did this.

DaveH
2nd May 04, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by SamHarber
Wow... some of our soldiers are a bunch of cunts who still need to shave their knuckles. That surprises me no end.
I've known a few servicemen, amongst them one was a para involved in Aden and Bloody Sunday, one a sniper who served in Cypress and NI, and a couple of squaddies who were in Kosovo and NI.
They've ranged from arseholes to guys who are the salt of the earth.

mainly I'm concerned at the stupidity of soldiers who thought it was a good idea to be photographed doing these things.

Firstly, I don't condone the alleged behavior of a group of alleged British troops however, as someone with over a decade of military service within 'limited' theatre of operations ranging from Northern Ireland, UN peace keeping in Cyprus and the Baltics;

For the skeptics :
PM me and I'll be happy to provide my service numbers for both the British Army and Royal Air Force.

I'm not entirely convinced about the pictures released into the public domain. Granted I'm no expert when it comes to photographic analysis but, these photos were reported as taken with a digital camera yet they were developed on photographic paper and delivered to the media in black and white. Why would someone got to those extremes when it would be much easier to simply print them on photo-weight printer paper and have them in colour ?

*IF* if members of the British Army were responsible for these acts then I would support their court martial 100% however, the "Cunts" that Mr. Harber so eloquently describe, are at the sharp end of the public's defence and I personally find it offensive that members of the 'that' public open critisise the defenders of their freedom without possession of the FACTS first.

I can't comment directly (although I can appreciate) for the American Forces, but for members of the British Forces, it is a way of life, that way of life is increasingly involving service in several theatres of operation. This is what their trained for and accept as nothing more than their job so, cut them some slack, let the investigators do the investigating and when we know the facts, then and only then, can we condemn those responsible.

Dave
(Ex 2nd Btn Light Division - Ex2 Sqn RAF Regiment)

LOVED2BLOVED
2nd May 04, 04:49 PM
ahhh, it appears they could be fake

Freddy
2nd May 04, 05:07 PM
I know in Canada during the Somalia episode. Some soldiers who torture and killed (and then posed with the dead body) of a Somalian kid. The Canadian military didnt fool a round. They take these things quite seriously. They invetigated these soldiers and later prosecuted them.

Wounded Ronin
2nd May 04, 07:39 PM
I haven't seen the photos. Any word on if they are real or not?

LOVED2BLOVED
3rd May 04, 06:54 AM
the paper which published them is defending them saying they are real, yet experts say that hey look "too clean around the edges" to be real.

though other soldiers are now saying that the pictures had been passed around in camps around iraq, saying that they are infact whats really going on.

drunkenj
3rd May 04, 09:35 AM
this kind of stuff is to expected but not accepted